Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries
Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Europa Universalis IV 82782 EUIV: Bug Reports 1353 EUIV: Suggestions 19383 EUIV: Technical Support 6899 EUIV: FAQ & Strategy Guides 241 EUIV: AAR's, Let's Plays, and Fan Fiction EU IV: Alternate History Short Story Contest Contr 30
Previous dev diary Next dev diary
Show only dev responses

EU4 - Development Diary - 19th of September 2017

Good day and welcome all to the Tuesday Dev Diary for Europa Universalis IV. Last Week we took a good look at changes to the Islamic Faith mechanics and today we're going to shine the spotlight on two prominent Muslim nations who shaped the Middle East in the 15th Century. That is to say the White sheep and Black Sheep Turkmen of Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu.

For a long time we have modeled these two nations rather haphazardly as Steppe Nomads but now is the time to give them their own special Government type of Tribal Federation complete with their own mechanics centred around Tribal Allegiance.

On its own, the Tribal Federation Government grants:

-5 years of separatism
-10% warscore cost for provinces
+25% cavalry to infantry ratio

The rise and fall of these Federations will ride on how well they are able to win over the tribal warriors of the region who are fickle to the successes and failures of the Federation. By winning battles and humiliating rivals, a Tribal Federation is able to increase their Tribal Allegiance which will in turn grant stronger bonuses for the country. Conversely, losing battles and being humiliated is a fast track to losing their support and bonuses.

federation 01.jpg

Tribal Allegiance itself will grant no bonuses with at zero, but up to +33% manpower recovery and -3 national unrest as it grows. It will degrade over time relative to your development. Additionally, it can be spent to gain immediate assistance With each action costing 30 Allegiance. :
  • Enlist General: Gain General with 40 Tradition
  • Train Horsemanship: Get +15% Cavalry Combat Ability for 10 years.
  • Conscript from Tribes: Start production of 6 Cavalry units in the capital at 25% build time.
The Inland tribes of Arabia also share these mechanics, while across the world, other Tribal Countries are either Tribal Despotisms or Tribal Monarchies, working as before.

National Ideas

The Black Sheep and White Sheep Turkmen have also been given their own unique national ideas

Aq Qoyunlu (starting development: 55)
Traditions:
cavalry_power = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1

Ambition:
land_maintenance_modifier = -0.10

The White Sheep
"The Aq Qoyunlu, or the White Sheep, trace their lineage to Bayandor Khan, the leader of one of the twenty four Oghuz tribes and the grandson of Oghuz Khagan himself. The blood in our veins is that of true warriors and makes us the predestined leaders of all other peoples."

leader_land_shock = 1

Unite the Clans
"For many years it has been to our great detriment that we have been unable to settle the succession disputes of our federation. We must settle the disputes of the sons of the White Sheep and unite as one. After decades of warfare there will be few who can stand before us if we would just work together instead."

yearly_tribal_allegiance = 1
cavalry_cost = -0.2

Turko-Iranian Bureaucracy
"Iran might seem ripe for an army such as ours. It is easy to conquer and keep under foot. However, if we are to extract any form of revenue from our new subjects we will need to rely not only on our military elites. There is no reason that the old administrative families of these lands should not continue to carry out their work. Let us embrace the ancient traditions of Iranian bureaucracy, as long as we make it clear that the military might lies with the armies of the White Sheep."

core_creation = -0.2

Dynastic Apanages
"The tribes in our confederation are held together by the loyalty to our great ruler but there are many conflicts within this disparate group of supporters. If we want to avoid splintering over petty tribal conflicts we should strive to keep all conquered land directly within our ruling family rather than among the chiefs that support us."

global_manpower_modifier = 0.25

Expansive Diplomacy
"Our realm lies at a crossroad between the empires of the Mediterranean and those of Greater Iran and South Asia. In many ways this region is one of few friends and many enemies. If we are to find allies we will have to look far abroad, perhaps even among the Christian realms of the far west."

diplomats = 1

Religious Pragmatism
"These are dangerous times and many look to millenarian sects for answers. We must do what we can to curb religious extremism in our lands while also working together with the more organized dervish sects that many of the Turkoman warriors belong to. By carefully choosing who to ally and who to fight we can build a stronger state, one that will have the allegiance of the Dervishes without the chaos that religious extremism can bring."

stability_cost_modifier = -0.1

Qanun-nama-ye Hasan
"The source of a land’s wealth is its population. The lands under our control have, however, suffered from centuries of warfare. We must protect our urban and rural subjects alike from wanton raids and coercion. Instead we must build and enforce a set of laws to make living and raising wealth in our realm safe and worthwhile. We will grow rich as our subjects prosper."

global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
Click to expand...

Qara Qoyunlu (Starting Development: 161. Has Bitlis and Kharabakh as vassals)
Traditions:
leader_land_shock = 1
cavalry_power = 0.2

Ambition:
leader_land_fire = 1


The Black Sheep
"We are the confederation of the Black Sheep. Our lineage goes back to the great Oghuz Khans and our warriors have made the world tremble. Once we bowed our heads to the Ilkhans and Timur but we now stand independent and stronger than ever, ready to take on the leadership of all the Turkic clans of Iran, Anatolia and the Caucasus."

global_manpower_modifier = 0.25

Governor of Azerbaijan
"While many of our military campaigns against our Timurid overlords have given us valuable experience perhaps the most important gain was the title of Timurid governor, given by Shah Rukh to Jahan Shah in order to help him pacify our people. What Shah Rukh did not realize is that this allows us to claim the legitimacy of the Timur, who once defeated and conquered all states in the Caucasus. This newfound honor gives us a platform to build a lasting hold over the Caucasus, Azerbaijan and perhaps one day even Persia."

province_warscore_cost = -0.05
core_creation = -0.1

In Honor of Ali
"Regardless of if they consider themselves Sunni or Shia, the great majority of our subjects honor the Imams, the family of Muhammad and even Ali. While this conviction is regarded as a weakness by some legal scholars it is something that unites our people, be they Sufi mystics, regular Sunnis, Alevis or Twelver Shias."

Tolerance of Heretics +3

Dynamic Warfare
"Our region has proven perilous for many invaders. The mountains, deserts, plains and forests of the Caucasus and Iran require quick adaptation to local circumstances and a keen eye for strategic and tactical advantages. Our prolonged warfare against other Turkoman federations and the Timurids have allowed us to perfect a dynamic form of warfare, mixing raids, grand maneuver warfare and pitched battles."

leader_land_manuever = 1

Freedom with Responsibility
"A truly great ruler is one who knows how to delegate. We have subdued a great number of states over a wide and diverse range of climates and landscapes. If our empire is to grow we must learn to empower local petty dynasties that surrender to our rule, allowing them to tax their own people and raise their own armies in our service."


reduced_liberty_desire = 10

Patron of Iranian Culture
"As conquerors of Iran and Iraq we have inherited the cities and palaces of the great empires before us. If we are to survive and thrive in this region we must add our own monuments and architecture to theirs and patronize the Persianate scholars of our subject peoples."

global_unrest = -1

Irrigation and Public Works
"Centuries of warfare, ever since the Mongol invasion, has left the lands of Iran and Mesopotamia devastated. Great irrigation works that once guaranteed the well being of our subjects have been laid to waste and agriculture is held hostage by the whims of the seasons.\nIn the short run we must build up stores of grain so that we can help our people in times of need. In order to secure the future, however, we must restore what was once ruined and rebuild the public works that will allow the Qara Qoyunlu lands to be fertile and productive once more."

global_tax_modifier = 0.1
Click to expand...

National Ideas and the Tribal Federation Government are all free changes with the 1.23 Update, while Tribal Allegiance and the interactions relating to it are paid parts of the upcoming expansion which will be released alongside 1.23.

Another thing which will be of interest to the Sheep Federations and frankly any nation in the neighborhood of the Ottomans is a change we've done for the Turkish behemoth. In 1444, we have removed all foreign Anatolian cores for the Ottomans. Candar, Karaman, Ramazan, Dulkadir and Aq Qoyunlu may breath a collective sign of relief that Osmanoglu's rise to dominance will be more contested than before.

Ottoman Diplomatic view in 1444:

Ottoman.jpg


As a final note for this dev diary I will wrap up the Trade Goods screenshots by completely jumping away from today's focus and show changes made in China, Korea and Japan:

Happy man looks over far east.jpg


That's all folks! Next week we'll stroll A little Eastwards and check out what has changed in Persia.
 
Last edited:
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
In EU4 period, did the Caliph have influence over other nations than the Ottoman empire?
The Abbasid Caliphate through all its period had some influence as religious leader, but this is way earlier.
 
Good! Paradox int. Team, you are the best! But I have one question: what will happen with Persia? Persia was also ruled by oguz tribes - the qizilbashs (it is a confederation of 7 shia oghuz tribes). Soldiers and generals in Safawids army were also from those oghuz tribes (e.g. afshars, or qajars, which also ruled Persia later). In fact we can consider Persia as heirs of Qara Qoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu (The founder of Safawid Persia, Shah Ismail was grandson of Uzun Hasan, the ruller of Ak Koyunlu).
Many thanks for answers!
 
Jeykhun said:
Good! Paradox int. Team, you are the best! But I have one question: what will happen with Persia? Persia was also ruled by oguz tribes - the qizilbashs (it is a confederation of 7 shia oghuz tribes). Soldiers and generals in Safawids army were also from those oghuz tribes (e.g. afshars, or qajars, which also ruled Persia later). In fact we can consider Persia as heirs of Qara Qoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu (The founder of Safawid Persia, Shah Ismail was grandson of Uzun Hasan, the ruller of Ak Koyunlu).
Many thanks for answers!
Click to expand...

Read previous DD and at the end of this DD you can see that the next one will be about Persia
 
Tedurur said:
With the new drill mechanic I think pips will be less important but as far as I know they will be the only country with +3 pips
Click to expand...

Yet isn't Drill a paid feature? +3 Pips (and importantly, +2 in the combat ones) is a massive bonus, far above any other nation's ideas (off the top of my head only Manchu gets close with +2 shock). That these are separate ideas goes some way to balance it out, but then a possible -25% Warscore Cost and -10% Core Cost might push it over the edge in my opinion. Yes they don't have discipline, but neither do most other nations.

I'm torn on whether nations should have balanced ideas or not, but the current way of making ideas is pushing too far into power creep territory for me. Games can be slowly ruined by power creep, remain vigilant!
 
mathuser said:
How the topic looks probably varies by how history is interpreted, but I think the team has left it kind of open for now.
Click to expand...

the only reason ottoman empire have those cores was rapid expansion for ottoman empire because the earliest version made by pdx in release was not as powerful as the current one. early ottomans were usually getting behind the tech than the europeans even in 1500s and with old alliance system getting wrecked all the time by the austria-poland-hungary-naples etc. all we see was the tiger but the paper one.

and when they released ROM it solved the ottoman empire's tech problem but then we started to see france and ottomans have same tech in 1700s which even sometimes ottomans have better tech. so ottomans need a nerf it is obvious as well as ming needs the same too.

tl:dr pdx thinks to take back unnecessary bonusses slowly which given to ottomans since the release like core cost nerf in third rome and reconquest casus bellis on this dlc.

Emre Yigit said:
An alternative etymology, which I do not believe to be correct, says they are the western sheep herders and northern sheep herders. "Ak"="white" used to be the colour Turks would ascribe to the west, and "kara"="black" to the north. In support of this, I did find a "Kızılkoyunlu" family (which would be "red/southern sheep herders") but no etymology for their name. As I said, I don't think this is correct, anyway.
Click to expand...

another thing mostly not true but the red sea also fits the naming seas by sex between direction and colors :)
 
PsychoLold said:
So please, do not feel offended if your favourite nation in EU4 is not modeled accurately enough in your opinion. It still is just a game. And while it should inspire us to learn more about history, we shouldn't learn it from the game itself.
Click to expand...

The whole point of Osmanli empire expanding into Europe was the power vacuum in the Balkans left by the crumbling Byzantine empire. It was a land grab performed by mainly Venice, Hungary, the Ottoman state and others. It had little, if anything to do with religion or Ottoman ginormous manpower/power reserves/economy as represented in the game.

And it wasn't as clear cut as in the game either. Osmanli armies lost battles, lost wars, just like every other nation. Currently, fighting Ottomans (or France) requires a coalition of most regional powers to even win a war, let alone win it decisively.

In my opinion, The Commonwealth is the best represented "superpower" in the game. It can live, it can die, it can thrive or become marginalized. I've never seen so many interesting and diverse variations to the same theme in any other corner of the map. Hopefully, other regions will become similar as well. Iberia is on a good track, England, France and China could use some love (or hate) in this regard.
 
this ottoman nerf is far from enough i think. you can make ottoman a opm in the middle of anatolia. why not do that? by doing this you can end the complaints about ottoman's.
 
Regaccio said:
Nice to see the East Asian trade goods. I'm still a bit disappointed in Japan's lack of gold, though... The Sado Gold Mine and other mines on the island of Sado, for example, were a very significant source of gold and silver for the Tokugawa Shogunate and precious metals were found there even as far back as the 8th century. Though to be fair, Sado may be too small to have its own province and making the rest of the province Gold might not be in line with how you guys decide on trade goods.

There's also the absolutely massive Iwami Ginzan Silver Mine, renowned at the time as a primary source of high-quality silver, and one of the main origins of metal currency in Asia. Right now it's located in a province designated as producing Fish - this province could definitely be another candidate for Gold. Or could it be that making any province in Japan have Gold would make whichever daimyo controls it too powerful compared to the rest? I'm curious what the reasoning is.
Click to expand...

Japan gets quite a few events for gold mines. By the end of my play through I had 4 gold mines in Japan so that happens on it's own.
 
ChrisTheWizard said:
I respectfully disagree changing them to a unit type with an effect like stability cost increase or something like that would make them less valuable than a global bonus with no strings attached like they are now while also making it more interesting.
Click to expand...

I'm also in the "make them a special unit" team

But I'd also like the Ottomans unit pips to follow the Europeans more closely, they are overpiped at start and underpiped at endgame. Ottomans were able to field vast armies quite early (which is represented by their great economy) but their armies weren't superior regiment by regiment. The Janissaries were great and renowned but their regular units often suffered huge casualties. So their units winning at equal numbers is quite ahistorical, their huge economy and manpower is what won them the wars.

Similiarly they lost later in the game from corruption and internal conflicts, not from a worse military. So they should face disasters later in the game, especially the Ottoman government completly migitating the Janissary disaster is weird, but their military declining isn't historical as well.

Maybe move all Anatolians in the Eastern tech group?
 
ElGranCapitan said:
I'm also in the "make them a special unit" team

But I'd also like the Ottomans unit pips to follow the Europeans more closely, they are overpiped at start and underpiped at endgame. Ottomans were able to field vast armies quite early (which is represented by their great economy) but their armies weren't superior regiment by regiment. The Janissaries were great and renowned but their regular units often suffered huge casualties. So their units winning at equal numbers is quite ahistorical, their huge economy and manpower is what won them the wars.

Similiarly they lost later in the game from corruption and internal conflicts, not from a worse military. So they should face disasters later in the game, especially the Ottoman government completly migitating the Janissary disaster is weird, but their military declining isn't historical as well.

Maybe move all Anatolians in the Eastern tech group?
Click to expand...
I think Anatolia should stay its own tech group but the pip divide should simply be reduced early ottoman troops should have an extra pip or 2 and the late ottomans should have a pip or 2 less and throughout most of the game their pips should be the same with slight variation not the huge difference we have now that way we still have a difference but its not so huge this should stop the ottomans from jumping to 2000 dev in the first 60 years but they also don't lose 1500 dev in the last 40 years either. Both differences early and late should be a little more subtle.
 
Regaccio said:
Nice to see the East Asian trade goods. I'm still a bit disappointed in Japan's lack of gold, though... The Sado Gold Mine and other mines on the island of Sado, for example, were a very significant source of gold and silver for the Tokugawa Shogunate and precious metals were found there even as far back as the 8th century. Though to be fair, Sado may be too small to have its own province and making the rest of the province Gold might not be in line with how you guys decide on trade goods.

There's also the absolutely massive Iwami Ginzan Silver Mine, renowned at the time as a primary source of high-quality silver, and one of the main origins of metal currency in Asia. Right now it's located in a province designated as producing Fish - this province could definitely be another candidate for Gold. Or could it be that making any province in Japan have Gold would make whichever daimyo controls it too powerful compared to the rest? I'm curious what the reasoning is.
Click to expand...
There is an event for japan that spawns a gold mine in iwami and one for another province I dont recall right now ;)
 
Janissaries should totally be a special unit as they were the elite of the Sublime Porte's army. +10% fire damge inflicted +2.5% discipline should be accurate.
This would also put more weight when you disable them via disaster
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back