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EU4 - Development Diary - 1st of October 2019

Good day and welcome to this week's Dev Diary for EU4. While we're still ironing out a few remaining issues with the 1.29 Manchu release, it's time to set our sights back on the upcoming European Update and accompanying DLC.

Today let's talk about the HRE. Earlier in the year, I touched on the Empire, and want to expand a bit more on what you can expect to see and do with Germany and friends in 1.30. As we've said before, much of the HRE mechanically exists in the game, and has continued to exist in its current form, as it does a great job of bringing relative rigidity to central Europe, and a good bulwark to an otherwise overly formidable French or Scandinavian threat, or more terrifying indeed, Ottoman invasion.

To that end, 1.30 will still have the Holy Roman Empire's base mechanics in their glory, save some smaller Quality of Life changes (such as no longer adding provinces to the Empire individually). The meat and potatoes of what you can expect in Early Modern Germany come by way of HRE Reforms and Imperial Incidents

Firstly, the reforms available for the Holy Roman Empire have been split into general reforms, Decentralisation reforms and Centralisation reforms. Some will look familiar to a seasoned HRE player. Others, less so.

General Reforms:
  • Call for Reichsreform
    • Empire Provinces: -5% Local Construction Cost
    • Emperor: Imperial Ban CB
  • Institute Reichsregiment
    • Emperor: +1 Diplomats, +1 Diplomatic reputation
    • Empire Provinces: -2 Local Unrest
  • Absolute Reichsstabilität
    • Emperor: gets a [REDACTED] that will [VERY REDACTED]
    • Empire Provinces: -25% Local State Maintenance
  • Enact Gemeiner Pfennig
    • Emperor per Prince: +0.5 Yearly Tax income
    • Princes: +1 Diplomatic reputation
  • Perpetual Diet
    • Needed to take one of the specific paths
    • Event that puts the location down for the “Permanent Diet” in an Imperial Free City
    • Permanent Diet is a triggered province modifier with some nice boons for the province. Is only valid if province is part of the Empire. If not a triggered modifier is enabled that gives -50% IA Gain.
    • Double Imperial Authority from Free Cities
  • Create the Landsknechtswesen
    • All Princes: Mercenary Companies who have their home in an Imperial Province are 50% cheaper.
  • Ewiger Landfriede
    • Emperor: +0.5 Yearly Prestige
    • Princes: -5% Tech cost
    • Empire Provinces: +10% Institution Spread
    • Emperor gets call to Arms for any war within the Empire as if it was done without CB.


Once the Emperor Passes the Perpetual Diet, they will be able to pass further reforms to either strengthen the decentralised Empire, or seek to centralise all power for themselves. Players have long wondered if they should stop short of completing the existing HRE reform path in order to preserve their Vassal Swarm, a highly enjoyable way of playing, or to unite the HRE under one flag. Now they will be able to choose between this decentralised power or centralising uniting under nation, with about 5 reforms each that play into either playstyle.

HRE.jpg

And maybe a player will have to weigh up ?missions? against vassal swarm tactics


The other thing for us to look into today are Imperial Incidents. One thing we wanted to do was to make the Empire feel alive and rife with bickering princes. To that end, we have rolled some existing occurrences throughout EU4 and History, as well as many others, into a system that has the HRE both create and react to issues in Central Europe and the immediate vicinity.

When the conditions are ripe, an Imperial Incident can trigger for the Empire. All member states will be informed of the incident, and it will prominently be displayed in the HRE interface. The Emperor will then have 6 months to make a decision on the incident, with wide-ranging knock-on effects.

To take a familiar example, the fate of Burgundy will be more fluid, with the circling vultures being more involved. Burgundy may seek support from the HRE as they see the writing on the wall, starting an Imperial Incident where the Emperor will have to choose between:
  • Negotiate with France
    • France gains the parts of Burgundy that are in the French Region.
  • Integrate Burgundy into the Empire
    • Burgundy becomes an Imperial Prince
    • Gives an event to France that gives them an option to start a Succession War on Burgundy(and thus by extension the Emperor) with French land occupied.
    • Princes around Burgundy becomes irritated with Emperor.
  • Just keep the PU with Burgundy
    • Nevers becomes vassal of France, France gets an option to start a Restoration of Union War on Burgundy(and thus by extension the Emperor) with French land occupied.
All incidents, and the path that the Emperor pursued will be visible in the HRE interface, so curious players can see what choices the Emperor has made before, and use their involvement in incidents as a chance to seize an advantage.

There are many other plans for Incidents, ranging from my beloved Hanseatic League, to my less beloved Dutch revolters, and the interactions between Pope and Empire beyond the shadow kingdom. We'll look towards these in future Dev Diaries.

Cheers for joining. Next week we'll keep going with our look at 1.30.
 
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It would be nice if you could build wonders like in CK2. Palaces, harbors, school for generals, castles.
Yea, I wish more of the stuff that is currently exclusive to ck2 converted games (like the province modifiers for existing wonders, even. And the Heretic religions that still have rebellions in eu4, but no actual religion in game) would be brought into vanilla eu4.
 
I hope you still keep a chance for Spain to gain the Low Countries as the Spanish Netherlands were very important in Spain's and Europe's history, and Belgium&Luxembourg were part of the Spanish Empire from 1506 to 1706, most of EU4's timeframe.

I think a good of way of representing this is to first remove the direct chance of Spain getting the "Burgundian Inheritance", making Austria/Emperor the main inheritor. And second, fixing and improving the event "A Very Strategic Marriage" so if Spain has a marriage with Austria and Austria got the Burgundian Inheritance, Spain gets from Austria: Charolais, the Franche-Comté, Luxembourg, Belgium and the Netherlands.

PS: Probably someone is going to say it, so let me clarify it first. When I say Belgium I mean more or less the territory of what is nowadays Belgium, I know the country didn't exist at the time.

Wouldn't this cause a Imperial Authority loss from an outside power holding land in the HRE? Or does this event make Spain the Emperor too/a subject of Austria?
 
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So the HRE can still only get more centralised? Not more fragmented, like it happened IRL? Just wondering.
Firstly, the reforms available for the Holy Roman Empire have been split into general reforms, Decentralisation reforms and Centralisation reforms. Some will look familiar to a seasoned HRE player. Others, less so.

Oh sorry, my bad. I need to read more carefuly.
 
Quick Idea: Revive medieval states within the empire as centralization, exploring a "Reichskreise" mechanic as if the Hohenstaufen reforms were successful; Make the "Join HRE mechanic" scalable to the current size (development) of the empire relative to that of the joining state, (considering tech level, stability/prestige/legitimacy, government type/rank (monarchies, theocracies, and duchies easier to join than minor kingdoms, than Great Powers, than rivals) degrees of religious or cultural affinities (within German/dominant culture group of the emperor, within culture/culture group of an elector, culture/culture group in the empire, culture/group of ally); represent relationships/tolerances for different denominations of Christianity (animosity, rivalry, peace, or friendship between Protestants and Reformed, Protestants and Anglican, Protestants and Catholic, Protestants and Orthodox, Orthodox and Coptic, Orthodox and Catholic, etc; add depth for religious mechanics (legalistic/mysticist, secularist/devoted, pacifist/militant, pluralistic/monolistic, with changing benefits/penalties toward either end, and for moderation, eventually extending to other religions or religious groups (much more tolerance between two pacifist state different religions than two militant state different religions, but alliance between two militant state religions of same or similar, if ecumenical, group); (easier to convert a mysticist sunni province than a legalistic sunni province, or based on time/amount of influence/past relationship) make it easier to gain large electoral states as major powers (Britain's path of receiving PU with Scotland, the Netherlands, or Hannover, even where the monarch was invited to the throne by parliament, with the chance of continuing in a PU or some other favored relationship.

Quote@Mindel
"It would be nice to be able to resurrect one or the other in the form of reviving the medieval kingdom. Indeed, this would be one avenue for HRE emperors intent on centralizing state power to do so. They could be kingdom-rank tags rather than empire-rank, and have special dispensation to remain within the HRE and wield considerable (possibly electoral) influence.

Since we are in the midst of reviving other medieval things such Lotharingia, Swabia, etc. Why not do it for nations as fundamental as Italy and Germany as well? Personally, I think it makes more sense to have a tag that reaches into the past to revive these states than trying to recreate a future nation whose form is not yet determined."
----

Completely agree; taken further into historical counter-factuals towards the view of expanding the empire: France was (briefly) part of the HRE before the Charlemagne's succession; its possible that a Personal Union and/or chronic decentralization ("Balkanization") and/or conflict (such as losing the Hundred Year's War) could have returned France into the HRE.
Similar for Poland, or even Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth (As Bohemia became an imperial land in 1198)
Spain potentially joining the HRE after PU with Habsburgs, or in the tradition of the Asturian March of Charlemagne (a carryover from CK2 Period)
Kingdom of Jerusalem or Latin Empire (Venetian/Italian-Roman Catholic Byzantium) joining HRE as a result of dynastic politics (again, carryover from CK2, counterfactual suggesting the defeat of Salah-al-din in Palestine; or thwarting the Ottomans.
More focus on the Union of Kalmar politics and the possibility of Denmark/Scandinavia joining an ascendant HRE? England, Kiev, Russia?

Current rules make sense to help maintain historical probability, but since there is a "Restore the Roman Empire decision" (...............) there should also be a (more plausible) path for using the HRE as a proto-typical European Union, institutionalizing the post-Napoleonic/Revolutionary congress of Vienna and the "Concert of Europe", or formalizing the protestant alliances entering into the Thirty Years' War into the Evangelical Union (and same for the Catholic Union), or at least extend the Victoria 2 mechanic of German states forming into the "North German Confederation" and the "South German Confederation", or the "Confederation of the Rhine".

It makes sense, if the Empire retains historical trend, to prevent large neighbors from easily entering the Empire, though Germany (in the smaller sense) should remain formable, either as an elector within the empire, with its own political mechanics (different vassal mechanics to accommodate Bundeslande and free states, etc.), alongside ascendant Saxony/Brandenburg/Prussia and Bavaria/Bohemia/Austria/Austria-Hungary, or even as the basis of an expanding Holy Roman Empire, with an electoral member in Italy, and even France or Spain.

What about Quality of Life/Mechanics changes for an early European reconquest of North Africa, and formable European/Catholic states in North Africa or the Levant?

Yes, all this could potentially make the HRE exceedingly overpowered, and balancing mechanics would have to be addressed to trend the AI or players toward historical realism when playing great powers (England/Britain, France, Portugal/Spain, United Provinces, Austria, Prussia, Denmark/Sweden, Russia, Ottomans/Byzantium), while maintaining the possibility for a strong player from Britain, France, Spain, PLC, or Scandinavia to enter HRE politics during the wars of religion (as France and Sweden did) or as an elector (as Prussia-Brandenburg, or Britain-Hannover), and successfully PU or challenge the current emperor.
 
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Unless I am mistaken, this sort of sounds like the political incidents in Victoria II... neither confirmed nor denied? ;)

Also, I would personally love to see HRE countries' color on the map color-shifted (or more accurately, de-saturated) to better show membership on the political map; &/or, a special outer borderline art that surrounds the HRE as a whole such as:

GDy72.jpg


Additionally, if/when HRE nations, lose their ability to declare wars, use the "Holy Roman Empire" text across the entity on the map irrespective of the numerous smaller internal borders.
 
I'm hoping it will be easier for players to understand how to get smaller nations into the hre, for example right now, i know they need to be threaten by an outside power that is not you, but i have no way of knowing their chances at getting into the are or how to influence them into joining
 
I'm hoping it will be easier for players to understand how to get smaller nations into the hre, for example right now, i know they need to be threaten by an outside power that is not you, but i have no way of knowing their chances at getting into the are or how to influence them into joining
Weirdest part is when they join the empire because they're threatened by the emperor.
 
First of all, if you want to make playing in HRE interresting, you will have to add much more countries and duchies especially, to get higher chance for personal unions. Also adding more formable countries (Bavaria <only if you will split it>, Hesse-Cassel etc.) and more leagues (e.g. Swabian League of Cities) would be interresting.
 
First of all, if you want to make playing in HRE interresting, you will have to add much more countries and duchies especially, to get higher chance for personal unions. Also adding more formable countries (Bavaria <only if you will split it>, Hesse-Cassel etc.) and more leagues (e.g. Swabian League of Cities) would be interresting.

You should read some of the older diaries, since they actually showed a split Bavaria as well as that you can form Swabia and Franconia for example.
Also they briefly talked about why they won't turn Eu4 into Voltaires Nightmare 2.0.
But for the rest I agree, PU game in HRE should be a bit stronger.
 
You should read some of the older diaries, since they actually showed a split Bavaria as well as that you can form Swabia and Franconia for example.
Also they briefly talked about why they won't turn Eu4 into Voltaires Nightmare 2.0.
But for the rest I agree, PU game in HRE should be a bit stronger.
I saw this diaries, but things they wanna add are too LITTLE for HRE. Just find random map on the internet, there is tons of duchies, landgrafschafts, and stuff like that...
Bavaria should've been splited since the game beginning.

You said: "Also they briefly talked about why they won't turn Eu4 into Voltaires Nightmare 2.0."
They didn't even say why they won't turn this into Voltaries or M&T... This is pathetic in my opinion, we should have good map, not a game which looks like a demo...
 
I saw this diaries, but things they wanna add are too LITTLE for HRE. Just find random map on the internet, there is tons of duchies, landgrafschafts, and stuff like that...
Bavaria should've been splited since the game beginning.

You said: "Also they briefly talked about why they won't turn Eu4 into Voltaires Nightmare 2.0."
They didn't even say why they won't turn this into Voltaries or M&T... This is pathetic in my opinion, we should have good map, not a game which looks like a demo...

You realise they can´t have 200 provinces in Germany, right?
 
If you give me any relevant reason, then i will approve your opinion.
  1. There's a limit to how small provinces can be and still provide decent gameplay.
  2. In order for OPMs to be viable they need a decent baseline development, even adding provinces with low development will increase the power of the HRE and the amount of AE gained for conquering inside the HRE.
  3. Increasing the number of tags in the game increases the amount of lag low-end machines will suffer.
 
Since I didn't generate any traction in the Suggestions side, I wanted to mention the prospect of expanding the starting lands of the HRE to the Old Livonian entities in the Baltics (Riga, the Livonian Order, and the Teutonic Order) -- detail and historical supporting material is in my post here: Teutonic Map and General Baltic/Livonia Discussion.
 
If you give me any relevant reason, then i will approve your opinion.

1) I don´t need every Imperial Knight´s estate (that did nothing in the period and was probably dependant on its neighbours anyways) in the game
2) Clicking on the provinces would be frustrating
3) Going a step further, even trying to see the provinces would be frustrating
4) All states start with some base manpower, force limit... OPM swarms are already too big of a problem now. Plus having Fulda run around with 5000 soldiers would be ridiculous.
5) As mentioned above, too much new AE and development for the region
6) It would be out of scope of how large province is generally supposed to be
7) As mentioned above, too much lag
 
1) I don´t need every Imperial Knight´s estate (that did nothing in the period and was probably dependant on its neighbours anyways) in the game
2) Clicking on the provinces would be frustrating
3) Going a step further, even trying to see the provinces would be frustrating
4) All states start with some base manpower, force limit... OPM swarms are already too big of a problem now. Plus having Fulda run around with 5000 soldiers would be ridiculous.
5) As mentioned above, too much new AE and development for the region
6) It would be out of scope of how large province is generally supposed to be
7) As mentioned above, too much lag
1) it's subjective opinion so i skip this argument.
2) that's why we have scroll
3) depends of game optimalization
4) yeah, then formed Germany would be really strong, but that's something that we can change.
5) subjective opinion
6) isn't province something like county size?
7) true
 
To that end, 1.30 will still have the Holy Roman Empire's base mechanics in their glory, save some smaller Quality of Life changes (such as no longer adding provinces to the Empire individually).
What has replaced the "adding provinces to the Empire individually" now? It was an ok source of IA for the Emperor before. How do we add the provinces into the HRE now?

Been rereading the dev diaries in anticipation of Emperor :)