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EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of August 2019

Good day and welcome to another EUIV Dev Diary. This week we shall be tackling the Ecumenical matter of Catholicism in the game.

Catholicism is a bit of a funny one when it comes to religions in EUIV. When the game came out, it was one of the few religions that actually had mechanics attached to it, which helped in making it an attractive choice, both in terms of power for your nation, and flavour for your campaign. Over the many years of EUIV's updates and expansions, many religions across the world have been given their own mechanics and flavour, leaving Catholicism in the lurch. Its mechanisms have dulled in the face of those from other Christian denominations, and it is often blasted as a poor pick of religion for a budding European power, when Protestantisms and the Orthodox and Coptics are such tantalising alternatives.

In the upcoming European Expansion, we want to empower the Catholic faith, and bring a sparkle back to the appeal of remaining faithful to Rome, as well as allowing the Papal States themselves to thrive in the power and authority as being head of the faith, and really feel the impact of the faith being torn apart when reformation hits.

Firstly, as anybody knows, the root of all power is money. To this end, the upcoming expansion will be introducing the Papal Tithe. There will be a treasury in the game, not owned by any nation but belonging to the Curia itself.

As will be a common theme, numbers and UI are far from final

20th Aug Tithe.jpg


The Curia Treasury fattens up based on the number of Catholic nations in the world. The money is not taken from the nations, but rather is added to the Curia based on the amount of Crown Land held by the Clergy Estate in these nations. Nations who pass the Dissolution of Monasteries will stop their lands from contributing to the Tithe.

The Tithe can also be directly paid into by particularly pious nations. Nations can buy indulgence which pays directly into the Tithe, and in addition to feeling relief from avoiding purgatory, can enjoy added Papal Influence and temporary defence from Excommunication.

The Curia Treasury can of course be dipped into, and the privilege few who can do so are the lofty Curia Controllers themselves. Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury. Papal Bulls are unique actions that affect all of Catholicism:

  • Illius qui se pro divini: Enables Crusades after the Age limit is imposed.
  • Apostolicae Servitutis: 50% Cheaper Curia Powers (Levy Church Tax, Proclaim Holy War etc..)
  • Praeclara Carissimi: -5% Development cost
  • Immensa Aeterni Dei: -10% Embracement cost, 25% Institution Spread
    Cardinals will spread institution if the institution has been embraced in a province of another Cardinal or the capital of the Curia(Rome).
  • Libertas ecclesiae: +20% Imperial Authority Growth
    Available if Emperor & Catholic Empire. (Not White Peace)
    All Catholic Nations in HRE get +15 towards approving HRE reforms
  • Dei Gratia Rex: +0.5 Yearly Absolutism & -2 Unrest in Catholic Provinces & -25% Drill Decay
Costs for these are a base of 1,000 ducats from the Papal Treasury, and increase as Reform Desire does. If devout Catholic nations wish to maintain the ability to empower their entire faith in the face of growing Reformation Desire, then they will have to expand Catholic lands or force convert their heretical neighbours.

The Pope himself has also been empowered with the option, but not the obligation, to play as a Kingmaker within the Catholic Faith. Cardinals will still spawn within Europe, but the Pope has the choice to directly appoint cardinals to other nations out of his own pocket.

20th Aug Appoint Card.jpg


The Papal State can assign Cardinals to nations who he thinks will best serve Catholicism. The cost for doing so is relative to the target nation's development and number of existing Cardinals. The Papal State will enjoy added influence to becoming the Papal Controller themselves through this action, and the target nation will have a longstanding boost to relations towards the Pope. Of course, the Papal States can assign Cardinals directly to their own land, but this action will come with a boost to their corruption. To make the traditionally invisible Cardinal mechanic somewhat more omnipresent, Cardinals are now visible on the (placeholder?) religious mapmode.

Finally the Pope can himself add directly to the Tithe with his own treasury. This may be of use for a particularly expansionist Pope who dismays other Christians by declaring themselves Kingdom of God. This Decision will no longer disable Curia mechanics.

Italy and Catholicism remain focus points for the upcoming Update and Expansion, and we're not done talking about them. When the situation in Europe gets a bit spicy thanks to theses being nailed onto doors, there may be more popping up, but for now that's [REDACTED]

Next week, we'll be talking about something completely different, and hopefully welcome news to those who have been wondering what's happening with that 64-bit support we were talking about earlier in the year.
 
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Very excited to see updates for the Papal States. Hope to see more info in the future, including mission trees.

I also hope Kingdom of God involves a new tag, and that the tag is Empire rank.
 
The ability to buy influence for cash. Helpful for some, probably not important if you are large enough to have plenty of Cardinals or don’t have a massive trade base.

It's not only to buy influence but it also m temporarily makes you immune against excommunication so it can help if you're the rival or the Curia Controller or in war against the Pope.

Anyhow Catholicism wasn't really a bad choice if you were a big nation as Spain or France and the benefits of the papal bulls only make it better.
 
Good update but i think people don't like the religion to much because of it's base modifiers being ( +1 Tolerance of the True Faith and -1 Tolerance of heretics) maybe remove one of those and use the curia bonus (−20% Advisor cost) so people that are not the Curia controller can get something useful from being that religion, my opinion ofc.

also "....wondering what's happening with that 64-bit support.... " this scares the living soul out of me haha, i hope the games doesn't get more hardware heavy but instead becomes faster otherwise my PC will cry, i will cry, it's gonna be lots of crying in my house.
 
Seems like a player controlled pope will be able to get institutions if it is spawned in Catholic Europe by putting a cardinal in the institution spawn province... at the cost of a little corruption

You only get corruption of you promote a cardinal inside your land, and if the institution spawned in your land, you won’t need to place a cardinal there, because you already have it
 
The strongest aspect of any religion in this game is it's ability to convert provinces. This is why Orthodox and Islam ranks high, with the triggered modifiers for extra missionaries and missionary strength. Protestants and non-Catholics still rank higher than Catholicism cause of their ability to hold Rome for bonus rather than Malus. Catholicism is the world's largest religion which means they were very good a proselytizing, be it peaceful or violent, they did it. This is not represented in the game at all and that is why Catholics are weak.

Religion plays a major role in realm internal stablity, and certain religions offer than in the form of conversion bonuses (Orthodox, Islam, Coptic, Protestant) or tolerance bonuses (Tengri, Confucian, Hinduism, Reformed). Catholic offers neither.
 
High Religious Tolerance & boosts to trade and war as the former, and pretty much free money and stab (as well as other bonuses) as the latter are not weak.
Strong and weak are relative. We should consider opportunity cost. There is definitely no reason to choose Reformed or Anglican in gameplay aspect, instead of Catholic and Protestant.

European great powers can use more than 2 strong modifiers from curia at all time only PI from cardinals. If you expand and convert aggressively, you can just swim in PI. In late game, player can monopolize curia controller. For countries which are not in Europe, Catholic is weaker than Reformed, but they can just switch to Protestant.

Protestant gives various modifiers from church aspects. Though they are weak, we can use 3 aspects simultaneously. Only two aspects can beat a bonus from fever of Reformed.

Tolerance of heretic religion is useless outside of Europe(if you try WC or not, you won’t concern heretics. Heathens are much more important) and no one care about more possible advisor. In addition, bonus from fever isn’t special compared to other religions. Reformed is clearly weak.

For Anglican, I don’t even want to say about that trash. Seeing Coptic first and Anglican later makes me smile. Smile of rage.
 
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How about using the new tithe to pay for temporary mini Centres of Counter-Reformation?

This could be in the form of a grand cathedral or a super-cardinal.

It could act by spreading Catholicism, or it could act as temporary conversion protection against the Protestant and Reformed Centres of Reformation.
 
I am excited for the possibility for a tag switch to the kingdom of god but what will the flag possibly look like? Will only the name change and we will keep the same papal state flag?
 
The strongest aspect of any religion in this game is it's ability to convert provinces. This is why Orthodox and Islam ranks high, with the triggered modifiers for extra missionaries and missionary strength. Protestants and non-Catholics still rank higher than Catholicism cause of their ability to hold Rome for bonus rather than Malus. Catholicism is the world's largest religion which means they were very good a proselytizing, be it peaceful or violent, they did it. This is not represented in the game at all and that is why Catholics are weak.

Religion plays a major role in realm internal stablity, and certain religions offer than in the form of conversion bonuses (Orthodox, Islam, Coptic, Protestant) or tolerance bonuses (Tengri, Confucian, Hinduism, Reformed). Catholic offers neither.

The counter reformation decision does make them temporarily the strongest converters.
 
Except it would be totally wrong for this period. That kind of crusades were all long gone. The new kind was the ones like the crusade of varna, and the somewhat earlier one against the golden horde (though not explicitly called a crusade), coalitions of countries united in anjoint war effort. Not vast armies of volunteers and hopeful adventurers looking for glory.
Actually.... there is something called "Holy Leagues" which are like crusades, but with the crusade buff, this is paradox big f u to holy league mechanic, sad because I really wanted a holy league mechanic being added to the papacy...
 
Well, the Papacy organised the Holy Leagues of 1571, 1594, 1684 and 1717, each of them an active rather than retaliatory anti-Ottoman undertaking. Also way more extensive than regular coalitions. It would be interesting to have more regionalised AE, but not decaying at all otherwise than through defeating an anti-coalition war.
The papacy also organized holy leagues against the emperor and france in the italian wars, holy leauges act like crusades but they don't have the "take back Jerusalem component"
 
The strongest aspect of any religion in this game is it's ability to convert provinces. This is why Orthodox and Islam ranks high, with the triggered modifiers for extra missionaries and missionary strength. Protestants and non-Catholics still rank higher than Catholicism cause of their ability to hold Rome for bonus rather than Malus. Catholicism is the world's largest religion which means they were very good a proselytizing, be it peaceful or violent, they did it. This is not represented in the game at all and that is why Catholics are weak.

Religion plays a major role in realm internal stablity, and certain religions offer than in the form of conversion bonuses (Orthodox, Islam, Coptic, Protestant) or tolerance bonuses (Tengri, Confucian, Hinduism, Reformed). Catholic offers neither.
This. As a Catholic you are basically screwed. You can´t use religious ideas to eat all your heretic neighbours and when you humanist ideas it will always be inferioir to every other religion going humanist. Only thing being catholic helps you with is money and mediocre modifiers like prestige or stability wich the other religions also do better.
 
Although what was stated in the OP was interesting I still believe the best thing to allow for the Papal States is the following suggestion:

1. Allow the Papal State to send missionaries to foreign provinces to convert religion to the current religion of the Papal States. Especially after a war where the peace treaty that was selected was to 'Force Religion'. Of course each Missionary sent to foreign lands should have normal costs and be paid for by the Pope. This should be implemented into the game as a counter to religious reform.

If you so prefer you could give the Papal State a unique Casus Belli which could be called 'The Inquisition' which forces religion upon the target country.

2. The Papal States should have the Religious CB from the beginning of the game. At least with neighboring countries or countries inside the HRE.

....

To add more flavour to the game I would suggest that by the Papal States converting provinces by the above suggested method and in addition to Religious Reform the League war could automatically break out once enough unrest builds up due to the struggle between the religious zealots and when enough countries have converted to Protestant and Reformed.

....

These suggestions are being made due to it's historical value to the game.

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/inquisition
 
Although what was stated in the OP was interesting I still believe the best thing to allow for the Papal States is the following suggestion:
Only if the Pope gets the rebels spawned by his missionaries.
 
The strongest aspect of any religion in this game is it's ability to convert provinces. This is why Orthodox and Islam ranks high, with the triggered modifiers for extra missionaries...

It depends on how you play, but I have to disagree. The strongest aspect of a religion is its tolerance, especially since the conversion changes. Tengri, Hindu and Fetishist are my top 3, although I suppose you could include Animist at #1 simply because it allows you to flip to any religion inside your land by decision.

If you are Tengri you don't have to convert a single non-animist/totemist/fetishist province in the game. On top of that you can select some really nice bonuses, cheaper troops, or discipline and unrest come to mind.

Islam is pretty good simply because most of the world is Islamic and you get the -2 corruption button to save you some cash.

About the changes... seem pretty boring to me, but I don't really play much in Europe.
 
You only get corruption of you promote a cardinal inside your land, and if the institution spawned in your land, you won’t need to place a cardinal there, because you already have it
If I'm not mistaken, it says institutions will spread to other cardinal's provinces if a cardinal is in the insitution's start province. So, by putting a cardinal in the start province, then another in your own nation, you should be able to ensure you gain the insitution as the Pope.