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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of February 2017

Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

eu4_123.png


Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

eu4_126.png


The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

eu4_124.png


Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!
 
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People complaining about the Qing-hat, while the hat for the Western military tech-group is a tricorn, which wasn't even used till much later in eu4's timeline. As well as the monarchy symbol being a crown, while not even all monarchies had such a crown.

Such complaints are just cute.

You know, because Manchu were nomadic or ... barbarian.
 
can you be emperor of rome and china at the same time?
 
Both Chinese emperor and Japanese emperor at the time were considered to be a demigod or living god, so it was not exactly compatible to the monotheistic nature of Abrahamic religions. I can see a Catholic Japan or Muslim Thailand tried to establish a Kingdom of China or Sultanate of China of sort, but probably not to the point of proclaiming themselves the Emperor of China (in the context of Chinese Emperor under Mandate of Heaven).
Hindu I am not too sure, but I agree that African Fetishists as Emperor will be ridiculous.

On the contrary, you had the Taiping in the 19th century showing you how you could justify it. The Emperors held divine mandates, and the European divine right of kings I think could be suitably refashioned, except in this case the Emperor would be God's sole representative on earth. A living Christ. The inaccuracy here is representing Christian China as Catholic. A christian China would most likely combine Christianity with Chinese traditional beliefs and Confucian orthodoxy. This is why I think being "east asian cultured" should be sufficient.
 
Also, Hong Xiuquan claimed the Mandate of Heaven on a "Christian basis". So I think Christians and Muslims should have access to the claim.
Why the disagreements?
The last southern Ming emperor actually was baptised and converted to Catholicism and I don't remember any Confucian scholars criticizing him for being not Chinese enough.
 
Also, Hong Xiuquan claimed the Mandate of Heaven on a "Christian basis". So I think Christians and Muslims should have access to the claim.
Except allowing Christians and Muslims to claim the mandate isn't going to result in Hong Xiuquan claiming it. It's going to result in the King of Portugal or the Mughal Emperor claiming it. Certain restrictions have to be in place to protect the integrity of the game. You can't give the mandate CB to Christians and expect England to abide by the honour system and not grab the mandate for themselves. Once a European has it, you're going to see all kinds of broken non-sense, namely European countries being turned into Chinese tributaries. The minimal pros do not the match the heavy cons.
 
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Except allowing Christians and Muslims to claim the mandate isn't going to result in Hong Xiuquan claiming it. It's going to result in the King of Portugal or the Mughal Emperor claiming it. Certain restrictions have to be in place to protect the integrity of the game. You can't give the mandate CB to Christians and expect England to abide by the honour system and not grab the mandate for themselves. Once a European has it, you're going to see all kinds of broken non-sense, namely European countries being turned into Chinese tributaries. The minimal pros do the match the heavy cons.

What i was proposing was that only Eastern Religions OR Eastern Cultures should be able to claim the title. So Catholic Japan or Muslim Vietnam could claim it, but not Portugal.
 
On the contrary, you had the Taiping in the 19th century showing you how you could justify it. The Emperors held divine mandates, and the European divine right of kings I think could be suitably refashioned, except in this case the Emperor would be God's sole representative on earth. A living Christ. The inaccuracy here is representing Christian China as Catholic. A christian China would most likely combine Christianity with Chinese traditional beliefs and Confucian orthodoxy. This is why I think being "east asian cultured" should be sufficient.
As you said, if Hong succeeded, what happened would most likely be the formation of a new Eastern branch of Christianity. However, that would definitely be very different from any one of the Christian branches featuring in the game, and so Hong's case was very different from a existing Catholic, Orthodox or Muslim ruler proclaiming as Emperor of China.
 
Any plans to include Chang Hsien-chong and his seven kill stele as an event chain? The man managed to make an admittedly minor language extinct on his own y'know.

I don't see why a person who led a peasant revolt should have an event chain, isn't it covered by regular peasant revolts?
 
reading this diary made me wonder if 100% reduced coring cost still means free cores.

why?

because patch 1.20 will allow 100% RCC, if I read this right.
 
As you said, if Hong succeeded, what happened would most likely be the formation of a new Eastern branch of Christianity. However, that would definitely be very different from any one of the Christian branches featuring in the game, and so Hong's case was very different from a existing Catholic, Orthodox or Muslim ruler proclaiming as Emperor of China.

Taiping's Christianity was really more akin to Mormonism or Manichaeism than any actual branch of Christianity theologically; popular perception just lumped it together with Catholicism.

Given that the Jesuits also came pretty close to converting Congzhen and succeed in converting Yongli, a Catholic China isn't at all out of the question, especially if a strong dynasty were to break.
 
Taiping's Christianity was really more akin to Mormonism or Manichaeism than any actual branch of Christianity theologically; popular perception just lumped it together with Catholicism.

Given that the Jesuits also came pretty close to converting Congzhen and succeed in converting Yongli, a Catholic China isn't at all out of the question, especially if a strong dynasty were to break.
We are really looking at it from different perspectives. Don_Quigleone and you are both arguing from the perspective of if Chinese population could accept a dynasty shifting toward Christianity. I absolutely agree that it was not entirely impossible because religious believes in Asia were more fluid and flexible. However, my perspective was based on the Catholic ruler himself. The scenario I was talking about were a Catholic ruler outside of the Chinese Mandate of Heaven belief conquering China, claiming to follow the Chinese Mandate of Heaven way of thinking, but also claiming to be Catholic at the same time. It's closer to the context within the game, and you can see how absurd that would be by just looking at the new Emperor of China UI. If a Catholic Emperor is allowed, we are implying this Emperor while staying Catholic, still acknowledging the Chinese dragon at the same time. It would feel totally out of place.

Hong's case was indeed more akin to Mormonism, and that was exactly what's in my mind. Thank you for pointing that out.
 
Thinking about it, isn't it kind of weird that there is no mechanism by which an internal revolt can result in a change in Mandate-holder? It's what caused the Mongol Yuan dynasty to collapse, and the Qing dynasty faced revolts for the restoration of the MIng, so there ought to be some mechanism by which it can happen. Maybe a connection with the White Lotus Society?
 
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Thinking about it, isn't it kind of weird that there is no mechanism by which an internal revolt can result in a change in Mandate-holder? It's what caused the Mongol Yuan dynasty to collapse, and the Qing dynasty faced revolts for the restoration of the MIng, so there ought to be some mechanism by which it can happen. Maybe a connection with the White Lotus Society?

This is why you get events when your mandate is low or dropping ;)
 
reading this diary made me wonder if 100% reduced coring cost still means free cores.

why?

because patch 1.20 will allow 100% RCC, if I read this right.
It does not mean free cores; there is a minimum coring cost of 10% (before multiplication by administrative efficiency).
It does, however, mean instantaneous cores. This is in fact already possible on the current patch, provided you're willing to jump through fairly substantial hoops.
Mandate reforms only extend this possibility an additional 5% though, because they are effectively tied to celestial empire, and thus are mutually exclusive with tribal despotism.