EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of January 2018

[Battlex]

Scandinavia has never been calvinist. Swiss the low countries parts of italy and hungary went reformed. The nordic countries went with state churches with the king as the highest religious authority. As did Prussia and those are pretty much the major protestant players now. So why is protestantism in the game mostly based on anglicanism?
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It comes from the church's being relatively plain, but with loud gospel music. That's why you have the joke about the blind man and the deaf man going to a Danish church.

 

[gronak]

Industrialization - too late. In this phase of the game, the money isn't problem for players.

To Anglicanism - no military bonuses. Players in MP will ignore it (similar like a Catholicism).

The game shouldn't be balanced purely for multiplayer. By this logic, every nation in the game should get military bonuses so people in multiplayer play them. If it's that much of an issue, you could easily create a mod to add in military bonuses. Keep in mind, if one religion is marginally better than the other then everyone will switch to that.

It's situationally good (from what we know so far about it), and extremely good for role play purposes. It could even have unique events too, making for a very fun campaign.

 

[TheDungen]

It is in fact quite sensible from a historical point of view that Great Britain gets an abundance of coal producing provinces. In 1850 (the closest to 1820 I was able to dig up in a few minutes) Britain produced two thirds of the world's output of coal (reference: http://faculty.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/ecn110b/readings/ecn110b-chapter2-2005.pdf ).

As for development, the problem is that Great Britain is underdeveloped by the end of the period compared with what it was historically, unless you spend a disproportionate part of your MP to improve it. The -10% development cost here from Anglicanism is a very good move but I would suggest also adding a -20% Development cost to the British Ideas, preferably instead of the +1 diplomatic relations.

Because England got those things that unlocks them before anyone else does doesn't mean they always should since England is not the place in Europe with the most coal deposits.
And I disagree that england has to low devlopement at the end of the game, not compared to the rest of the world. Since no one develops much.
And it has like I said 5 times higher development that it should have in 1444.

 

[Achiles]

Scandinavia has never been calvinist. Swiss the low countries parts of italy and hungary went reformed. The nordic countries went with state churches with the king as the highest religious authority. As did Prussia and those are pretty much the major protestant players now. So why is protestantism in the game mostly based on anglicanism?


That what Protestantism was supposed to be except they shoved protestantism so full of stuff england did so now we have two anclicanisms. Yay.


Where does this notion come from, no the Nordic countries were are you put it lutheran, a strong centralized state church with the king as their head. Just like Prussia.
The only calvists in the nrodic countries were the workers migrants sweden took in from walloonia who were given a special dispense from the crown allowing them to practice their own religion.


And have asked for england getting a special event for becoming protestant for a long time perhaps even a few unique church powers (or rather Prussia and Sweden getting some unique ones because most of the ones we have are based on anglicanism). But the idea of a state church doing their own thing is very much what Protestantism is.


No it really does not, every protestant state church is as diffrent from one another as Anglican is. That's the point of their mechanics. Also almost all the church powers and the symbol used by protestantism is based on anglicanism. So now the remaining protestant majors Sweden and Prussia are stuck with "chose whatever you want but your only choices are anglican".



4 unless northumbria and wales now start independent. And I think I see another 2 in scotland. As I said as much as the HRE and France combined.
Also these only spawned when certain criteria were met so many of the one in ROTW may not spawn at all.

So what kind of changes should be made to Protestantism in game to make it more representative of the north German and Scandinavian churches? Is it to just change the icons or different abilities or a totally different mechanic all together?

 

[TheDungen]

It comes from the church's being relatively plain, but with loud gospel music. That's why you have the joke about the blind man and the deaf man going to a Danish church.

That doesn't sound anything like Swedish protestantism to me. Maybee denmark is jsut diffrent. When I have gone to church in north Germany the churches have been a lot plainer. And I have never vistied a church where they do the whole gospel thing. Mostly it's just psalms.

So what kind of changes should be made to Protestantism in game to make it more representative of the north German and Scandinavian churches? Is it to just change the icons or different abilities or a totally different mechanic all together?

Seriously since the only two majors who are protestant at this point is Sweden and Prussia many of their military bonuses could be moved to Protestantism since much of it was the result of hr state church telling soldiers that their king was gods representative on earth and dying for him meant a place assured in heaven. Also the church administered the social welfare systems that both Sweden and Prussia began propping up to support their militaries.
The state church is the origin of Sweden as a nation state up until that it has been massively fractured internally where every land considered themselves a separate people with their own dialect so diverse it was essentially a language. The church changed all that. It became a unifying presence and a link directly between the king and his subject bypassing the nobility which allowed the kings of the Swedish empire to totally break the power of the nobility in the reign of Carl XI. Granted the Swedish nobles were never as high as those elsewhere but they certainly weren't after that.
Prussia is released to independence by Sweden and they take a lot of inspiration from the Swedish system even more after Friedrich Wilhelm I and Friedrich II (the great) did reforms that were very much inspired by the Swedish empire.

So Anglicanism may be catholicism witht he king as head of religion but Prussian/Swedish style protestantism is very much the first institution of state in these countries. it should be much more integrated in the government type.

Seriously at this point I am somewhat sceptical to religious mechanics at all. At seems to be a way to gamey way to handle it. Sure religion was a big part of why sweden became the country it did. Same for Prussia. But it's not detached from the government form of these countries.

As for the cross icon cant' say the church I grew up in didn't have crufix at all instead having gigantic painting of the crucifixion. Actually looking it up it seems the pillars and the paintings under the the sun is in a lot of Swedish churches.
The church I go to in Germany when I am there (not quite as famous so sorry no pictures) has a 5 stories mosaic cross laid into the wall behind the altar instead. All in all the classic crucifix seems a lot less prominent in my experience.

 

[Meneth]

Will the code for name placement affect the "capital area" definition?

No. It is purely visual.

 

[hillcf]

In the Nordic countries you find Lutheran, which I suppose is the Reformed branch.

Where does this notion come from, no the Nordic countries were are you put it lutheran, a strong centralized state church with the king as their head. Just like Prussia.
The only calvists in the nrodic countries were the workers migrants sweden took in from walloonia who were given a special dispense from the crown allowing them to practice their own religion.

My mistake and corrected by my edit a couple of minutes later.

 

[Firefan404]

Will bug giving english monarchs wrong regnal number be corrected with new patch? If your heir's name is other than Henry, he will always be listed as first of this name. For example you are Henry VI and your heir's name is Edward, after Henry's death he will become Edward I instead Edward IV.

Well it's not only England, I remember having the same problem with France, even if in the related .txt files the numbers are correct.
I would love that to be fixed too

 

[gronak]

No. It is purely visual.

If Denmark unites Scandinavia, and conqueres Britain, will Denmark stretch across the north sea or will it be Danish Britain?

 

[Telenil]

Given the amount of money available in the late game, I expected industrialisation to be something that would take money, rather than give it.
Maybe I'm missing something, but as it is, does the late game really needs a counterpart to gold mines?

 

[Nmo]

I like the latent resource mechanic. It'd be interesting if it could be revisited in a later DLC to better represent how coffee, sugar, cotton etc. actually got to the New World. And maybe even introduce new world crops such as potato as a resource to be planted in Europe?

 

[Teutonizer]

Hey, where are "rejected titles for this DD"? True DD can't be finished without'em

 

[LiberiusX]

Coal and “furnaces”?

Focus on England, industrialization/coal....

Over 50 comments and nobody has yet proclaimed "Victoria III confirmed". The community appears to have a heavy hangover.

Sorry. I just woke up. Little late to the show. I’m used to podcat’s diaries arriving well into the middle of my day.

 

[PedroLuiz]

Hey, where are "rejected titles for this DD"? True DD can't be finished without'em

Agreed, they can't give us the sugar then take it away

 

[CheesySnake]

Hey, where are "rejected titles for this DD"? True DD can't be finished without'em

Those are the in the HOI4 diaries.

 

[Stanleykubrick]

How many Furnace can u stack ?
Or if I take out Loans to build 20 Furnace do I just double my production income ?


Also the new religion gives a player no real reason to go for it since Protestant is just better.


About the late game money Creep problem:
Adding new trade good's that unlock at later parts of the game is very nice and strategically interesting, but to compensate for that pls
lower Production efficiency from tech
else we wil have even bigger money creep in the lategame than we already have now

Please consider this.

Something that also always feels wrong has to do wtih how production efficiency increases.

For example why techs like "land clearance" or the "rotherdam plough" boost production across all trade goods ?
Why are you able to generate more silk, chinaware or copper because of this? Shouldn't the bonuses from these technologies be applied to certain goods only?

 

[Zak Preston]

@DDRJake Anglican church seems to have no military bonuses, meaning that in MP-games none will ever take it. I'd even say that it looks even worse than Catholicism (one of the absolutely undesired religions for MP games).

In singleplayer Protestantism is way better than Anglicanism, because it gives settlers increase, land and naval morale, discipline, discounts to ideas and much-much more, aside from tax increase.
Even without "WAR" fervor, Reformed is still better than Anglicanism: most of British income goes from trade and production.

 

[Testeria]

That what Protestantism was supposed to be except they shoved protestantism so full of stuff england did so now we have two anclicanisms. Yay.

No, anglicanism is really just papacy with local pope

There is nothing inherently english in wanting a divorce so if they add new mechanics it would be fun to have it aviable to choose if You want Your state church more catholic or more protestant...

 

[123e55]

Good day all. I'm led to believe that it's Tuesday and as such we should be doing our weekly tease of things to come. Last week we unveiled the new mission trees to much speculation and discussion. Indeed there were many questions and one thing I want to address are those with the modding glint in their eyes who are wondering how to use this new system. To that end we'll put together a short modding guide for using the new mission system in an upcoming dev diary.

While we will be coming back to missions for a future dev diary, I want to start talking about the features which will be in the as of yet unnamed Immersion Pack due to accompany the 1.25 Update. Let's have a couple to look at today: the Anglican Church and Industrialization.

Firstly, the Anglican Church. Currently, when the reformation hits, Christianity branches out to the Protestant and Reformed faiths. Owners of the Immersion pack will find themselves with a third option appearing in the British Isles.

View attachment 331271
But what if I were to invent a belief and disguise it as my State Religion? oh ho ho ho, delightfully devilish, Henry.

After the Initial reformation hits, A strong British nation can spawn the Anglican faith in their nation. They have the option to adopt the faith, Evangelize it (spawning a Reformation centre at great financial cost) or simply to reject it. This new faith is a different branch of the Christian group, and comes with its own bonuses and Church actions.

View attachment 331273
I like my Consorts how I like my coffee. 6 MIL

Anglicanism itself grants lower development cost and better conversion rates against heretics and like Protestantism gives you a Church of <Country Name> with its own church power. Instead of adding aspects to your church though, there are direct actions you can take to gain money, mercantilism or stability for your realm. For For Rights of Man owners, two more options will be available much to your consort's dismay. You can immediately divorce your unworthy partner and marry a new local noble.

Anglicanism is primarily a following for the British Isles. It cannot be adopted as easily as Protestantism or Reformed, however it can be spread by war from a particularly Evangelist Brit, or religious rebels can force the state to adopt it.

Moving along to Industrialization now. Our story with this feature starts with our addition of Latent resource to Europa Universalis. Certain historic locations in the world contain an untapped latent deposit of coal. When the conditions of high development and the embracement of Enlightenment are fulfilled, the province will switch to this new super trade good.

View attachment 331286
Wool is tired of being looked down on. He's hitting the gym to become a truly swole trade good

• Coal gives:
  • +20% cheaper state_maintenance (province modifier)
  • +10% Goods Produced (Trading bonus)
• Base price is 10
• New Manufactory (Furnace) (ADM tech 21) Does not boost goods produced by 100%, but instead boosts all goods-produced in nation by 5%.

Coal is the late-game answer to Gold mines. Highly valuable with nation-wide benefits to harness, they are truly boons for any nation to seize them. Across the world there are about 50 such mines. They are shown as stripes provinces in the Trade Good mapmode. Here is the current worldwide placement

View attachment 331288 View attachment 331287

And of course, our furnace in all its glory

View attachment 331289
Handiwork of @Carlberg

Added bonus. We have consolidated manufactory listings both in the province view and macro builder as a quality of life change, so you no longer see irrelevant manufactories in the province or have to dance between manufactures to see which one will give you best bang for buck.

And finally, hawk-eyed individuals noticed last week that France's name stretched out in a way that they do not currently do in the release version of EU4. Our Magician of Optimization @Meneth stepped in to tweak out map-name generation code a touch. he has this to say:


As those of you with especially keen eyes noticed in the last dev diary, country names can now spread across sea zones.
As anyone who has played in Indonesia will know, the sea is truly the greatest enemy of good name placement. But that is no more.
Now, if a single country controls every single land province (wastelands excluded) surrounding a sea zone, the game will pretend it is part of their territory for the purposes of name placement.
There are a couple additional requirements beyond controlling every province to ensure that the results don't end up ridiculous:
- There have to be at least two different landmasses bordering the sea zone
- At least two of the bordering landmasses have to be larger than once province. Otherwise, names would stretch out to reach tiny islands, causing strange results such as Portugal's name being in the middle of the sea between Portugal proper and the Azores
The combination of these rules lead to far nicer looking names in areas with a lot of islands, while avoiding making name placement worse in areas that don't really need names stretching across sea zones."

So we finish today's dev diary with a couple examples as such:

View attachment 331290
Smiling Korea

View attachment 331291
Smiling Brunei

That's our lot this week. Tune in next week for more information and features in the upcoming 1.25 Update and accompanying Immersion Pack!

will you add more coal provinces in time? Wallachia should really get one in Oltenia , and that would make them at least a bit more relevant.

 

[Zaragoza]

Interesting Burgundian inheritance there. France is getting a lot less.

It seems that the have corrected Charolais. It was the title of the heir of Burgundy and went with the rest of Burgundy to the Habsbourgs. However, ingame size is wrong, the area should be way smaller (and not connected to the Framche-Conté)