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EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

Good day all, today is a very exciting Tuesday, as we'll be coming to the conclusion of our EU4 Dev Clash Multiplayer Campaign, complete with trophies and congratulations to the winners and commiserations to those who did not make it to the Top 3. We'll be live over at our twitch page at the usual time of 1500 CEST.

Until then though, let's cover a few more changes we have in store in the upcoming Persia Update and it's accompanying expansion. Last week we covered changes over in Persia, so today let's look over towards Anatolia.

Firstly, let's talk the Ottoman Government. This recently introduced government type is a strong boon to the Ottoman nation, but as of the Persia Update it will be attainable for other nations too via the decision to Restore the Sultanate of Rûm.

decision.jpg


Any ambitious Turkish nation can, after wiping tactfully removing Ottomans and Byzantium from the map, take the decision to form Rûm. The requirements will also ask that they hold key provinces in the region. This will grant their nation a new name, flag, colour and National Ideas for their Sultanate of Rûm.

Rum.jpg


RUM_ideas = {
Traditions = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1
}
Ambition= {
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.25
}
trigger = {
tag = RUM
}
free = yes

rum_abul_fath = {
discipline = 0.05
}
"We have enemies in all directions making a strong army is a necessity for a state such as ours. Fortunately we are not a weak people. From the irregular Gazis and the Akinci raiders to the Sipahis of the Ottoman Empire the world have come to know the military might of the Turkish people. Let us build an army for an Empire, taking inspiration from wherever military competence can be found while also drawing from the strengths and experiences of those that came before us."

rum_king_of_the_east_and_west = {
core_creation = -0.20
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
"Since the fall of Rûm the Turkish people have been divided, serving minor beys from the bosphorus to the mountains of Kurdistan. It was our duty to restore the legacy of the Seljuk Sultans of Rûm and unite the Anatolian Turks. Our ambition however must be much higher than that. The Seljuk Turks once ruled one of the greatest empires known to man, it is evident to anyone who sees our empire that the restoration of this state is now our destiny, as is the reclamation of the Roman lands that were once ruled from what is now our heartland."

rum_shahanshah = {
legitimacy = 1
}
"Rûm was not only an Anatolian state but also one that strongly honored the Persian traditions of kingship. Especially as Persia itself fell to Mongol conquerors. Under the sultans before us Persianate culture blossomed and Persian poets and scholars found patronage. Men such as Najm-al-Din Razi, Qane'i Tusi, Baha'-al-Din Walad and Rumi himself made their homes under Rûm’s protection and the Sultans themselves were versed in Persian literature and poetry.\nWe must cherish our Persian legacy as well as our Turkish and aspire to make our homeland a paragon of Persianate culture, the foremost of Islamic nations."

rum_sultan_of_rum = {
tolerance_heathen = 3
}
"The Sultans of Rûm ruled over the people of Anatolia, Muslims and Christians. It was during their reign that Islam became the dominant religion in the region but their policies accepted all subjects. Often inviting even Christians from the nearby lands to seek out the domain of Rûm. We would do well to learn from their example."

rum_sulan_al_bahrayn = {
naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
}
"Like the Rûm sultans of the past we must establish a strong and durable navy that can withstand both Christian pirates and the fleets of other Muslims. The ability to control and expand over the Mediterranean and protect our coastlines is going to be one of the main challenges of our Empire."

rum_sultan_al_muazzam = {
build_cost = -0.15
}
"The greatest of Sultans require grand monuments and buildings. Let us make the lands of Rûm the envy of the Islamic world, with mosques, madrasas, caravanserai, gardens, canals and palaces unlike any other. Through architectural patronage we can create an enduring and unique legacy for our dynasty."

rum_protector_of_dar_al_islam = {
global_heretic_missionary_strength = 0.03
}
"Our predecessors were always ready to defend the righteous and to combat the spread of heretical sects. So too must we do our utmost to promote the pure forms of religious worship and limit the the influence of heretical rulers who would otherwise try to seduce and mislead the faithful."
}

So with Ottoman Government attainable, we also have some new toys for them to play with.

As part of the accompanying expansion, the Ottoman Government will have access to Pashas and Janissaries

Firstly Pashas. In States, a nation with Ottoman Government can assign a Pasha. This will reduce unrest and the State maintenance cost for those provinces while also raising the cost of new buildings and units from them. This will prove useful in keeping costs and revolts down in provinces far from the capital, however revoking a Pasha will result in increased unrest for 10 years.

pasha.jpg


Janissaries on the other hand, have seen some changes. No longer a countrywide boon for all units, the Janissaries are now special elite units. These can be recruited for a set cost of 50MIL from a given state. For every 10 development of heathen-faith land in a state, 1 Janissary unit will be spawned, making high-development concentrations of wrong-religion land desirable . These special units cost twice as much to reinforce but are able to withstand damage much better, taking 10% less shock and fire damage in battle. Similarly, the Janissary Decadence disaster has been altered, now to fire if a nation relies too heavily on Janissaries relative to their forcelimit.

You know I think it's not fair that we look so much at the Ottomans. For the upcoming Persia Update, it's actually the Mamluks who start in 1444 with higher development between the two. We'll take a look at what we have in store for them but that'll have to wait for next week, as there are trophies to polish for now.

See you next week!
 
Ottomans acutally owned many of the beylik lands before Timur wrecked them. Removal of several cores (not all of them, Ramazan and Dulkadir for example was independent even before Timur helped the beyliks) is ahistorical, even if it helps the gameplay.
 
Yes they can. It's open to non-nomadic Turkish nations. It will be no surprise that, due to the requirements to eliminate Ottomans and Byzantium, neither of those nations may form Rûm.

isn't it a bit weird AQ can and QQ can't? the ethnic an cultural core of those groups there turkoman tribes whom both turned their focus on Persia and mesopotamia.
 
yay janissery now makes much moer sense... if you make them too much powerfull disaster fires
so this unit type is only 1 supporting quantity over quality since depands on forcelimit rate
 
isn't it a bit weird AQ can and QQ can't? the ethnic an cultural core of those groups there turkoman tribes whom both turned their focus on Persia and mesopotamia.
With this you can see how the whole Azeri/Turkish culture thing is pretty garbage.
Azeris at that time were simply called and viewed themselves as Turks and there was virtually no difference between the Turkish of Aq Qoyunlu,Qara Qoyunlu and the Ottomans.
 
I personally loved all these new mechanics for Turkish nations. Rum carries Seljuk's military legend to game, its basically Turkish Prussia with these ideas. Very lovely.

This is the question I keep repeating but, are you gonna add some more releaseable historical beyliks? By that way it can be easier to remove Ottomans piece by piece creating new tags, playing divide and conquer (while not getting overextension)
ci9oWXb.png


I also liked new mechanic for janissaries, this is more historical.
But I also feel like there should be some bonuses to janissaries, as far as I can see everyone is asking for discipline bonus to return, I may agree.

I also wanna suggest one more thing. If you are not gonna add discipline bonus, can you try to increase force limit for Ottomans (or janissaries) some more?
I suppose everyone agrees that Ottomans generally win with numbers, so it might be better to increase regular troop numbers to balance out discipline nerfs for regular troops? So you will need to have quality armies to beat Ottomans' quantity.

And last thing, I wish there could be room for Enderun in this dlc as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enderun_School
They were growing Christian boys as statesmen and scientists in these school, not only military.

mJ7Ok1.jpg


"The Enderun School's gifted education program has been called the world's first institutionalized education for the gifted."

Maybe for next expansion? :D
 
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You got downvoted because you hurt the feelings of Turkonationalists.
so did you :cool:
don't blame people who know more about their country than you do and want to have things right.

Removing the cores from Dulkadir and Ramazan is right and the rest is wrong. @talilu

Some people said it shouldn't make a huge difference to remove those cores. If that's the case, we should keep them, then. There is no need to alter the historical facts. Maybe PDX will surprise us with missions those give Ottomans free cores!:D
 
You got downvoted because you hurt the feelings of Turkonationalists.

Wait a moment, I only disagreed with the guy who claimed cannons were invented in al-andalus, which is utterly ridiculous

On the whole Janissary debate I was not on your side and I quite heavily disagreed with your claim that the turks stole european technology - and I really dislike the word "stealing" in that case to be honest, as it kinda reminds me of old racist arguments (aka "those barbarians are incapable of invention, so they have to steal from us europeans")

Regarding the Janissaries I am on their side for the most part. The only difference is I'm a little more cautious with my claim (while they - or at least some of them - claim Janissaries were THE BEST troops, I said ONE OF THE BEST)

So don't claim me as your supporter
 
Well worth waking up at seven in the morning to read.

Nice to see that Janissaries are finally their own unit rather than a uniform buff to the Ottos. Also, has a name been chosen for the new expansion? It's a bit unusual that it seems to be this late into it's dev cycle with no name given.

(Still disappointed at the seeming lack of Turkish culture changes.)
It's called Cradle of Civilization. I dont know why they have been so coy about dlc announcements since mandate of heaven. They seem to be very fond of a soft reveal nowbas they gave away ckiis latest expansion's details a week or two before they officially anouncing it. I also feel the Dev clash got in the way of the content stream.
 
Some people said it shouldn't make a huge difference to remove those cores. If that's the case, we should keep them, then. There is no need to alter the historical facts. Maybe PDX will surprise us with missions those give Ottomans free cores!:D

Just want to clarify some thing about taking non-core land vs taking land that you have core claim on.

Taking land with core claim (Ottoman's Turkey in current version) let you take those land at 75% discount on AE and 25% less warscore required in peace treaty. That is it.

Unless one of those minor somehow manage to end up with one province at 50 development. You are very unlikely to see a significent difference between Ottoman with core claim vs Ottoman without core claim. If nothing else because of religious difference (Muslim hate you more if you take Muslim land than catholic land).

Ottoman has lot of easy conquest even without the core claims. I meant just look at Serbia/Bosnia and some of the Caucasus minors. Maybe if Ottoman is lucky they might reach the Persian Sea before a serious coalition can form.

That is my normal experience and rare situation may happens like a decent catholic alliance bloc in the north wiping them in their first war.

However with lot of upcoming changes in cradle of civilization area. Who know?
 
Ottomans acutally owned many of the beylik lands before Timur wrecked them. Removal of several cores (not all of them, Ramazan and Dulkadir for example was independent even before Timur helped the beyliks) is ahistorical, even if it helps the gameplay.

Otto held Karamanid and Candarid cores only for 5-7 years and were in constant war. May be "the player" didn't have the spare monarch points and time to core them.
 
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....Wow Ottos got hit hard...I never thought I would utter these words in a EU4 forum but...ugh...maybe the Ottos got hit too hard? I mean I have to agree with some of the things said in previous posts. The Jannisaries were feared for a reason and were absolutely an elite fighting force for the period. At this point looking at the new mechanic, the streltsy are a much cheaper and better option. You click a button every so often and bam a fighting force is ready for you, for free.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE the new mechanic of recruiting them separately from regular troops, and having the Jannisary bonus apply to the entire Ottoman army of 200k+ was completely ridiculous however, if they are going to cost this much they are simply not worth it.

In my opinion
the Jannisaries should deffo have more modifiers, like more discipline and morale however, be more expensive to reinforce given that they were formed from Christian boys. Furthermore, you should only be able to recruit them from conquered Christian lands/states. This would make them both strong and limited. I also liked the idea of the disaster firing if they make up more than a certain percentage of your army. It should help the Ottomans scale better into the late game (keeping the Jannissaries permanently) however, this is ONLY IF they receive more battle modifiers such as increased discipline and morale. As they are now they are just not worth the effort or the mil points.

The only other alternative is making Jannisaries an age bonus although that seems like very temporary thing and perhaps not as fun or interactive.
 
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