The holy Swedish month of July is over and our workforce has been steadily trickling back into the office, resigned to the fact that sunlight is a luxury we won't be seeing for another 11 months. With that lovely thought in mind, let's return to our weekly dev diaries and talk about a new feature for our upcoming yet unrevealed expansion for Europa Universalis IV: Coptic Holy Sites.

Copts have had a rough time. Way back in EU's history they were simply represented as the Orthodox faith before getting their own religion within the Christian group, but even then they lacked their own flavour, destined to be left in the Horn of Africa and Armenia with hungry neighbours and their Patriarch being locked up and bullied in Mamluk-held Alexandria.

Well no longer! A feature in the upcoming DLC is a Holy Sites system unique for Coptic nations. Any nation which follows the Coptic faith will have access to a screen showing their Holy Sites. There are 5 in total, detailed with who is currently controlling them and the faith followed by the province. It is the Copts' holy mission to see these restored to Coptic control.

As shown above, Armenia (Who I released&played as from QQ) can open their Coptic menu and see the state of their Holy Sites. If a Holy Site is held by any Coptic nation and the province itself follows the One True Faith™ then all Coptic nations will be granted a blessing from the Patriarch. You are able to pick from the 5 available blessings but be sure that you or your Coptic friends hold onto your possessions tightly, as losing ownership of a Holy Site to a nation of another faith will lose you the blessing until it is returned to Coptic hands.

In 1444 the only Holy site in control of the Copts is Aksum, in the far north of Ethiopia. This will allow all existing Coptic nations to pick one blessing of their choice from the above list.

Legitimize Government: +0.5 Legitimacy
Encourage Wariors of the Faith: +10% manpower recovery
Send Monks to Establish Monasteries: +1.5% missionary strength
Promote Territorial Rights: -10% Core creation Cost
Will of the Martyrs: +5% discipline

Unlike other religious mechanics, the Coptic Holy Sites will collectively make all followers of that religion stronger. It makes no difference in the available Blessings if your nation or another Coptic nation holds the Holy Sites. Should the Copts fight back from their perilous position in 1444 and secure their Holy Sites, they will be that much stronger. Co-operate with other Coptic nations and share the Patriarch's blessings

Alongside the Holy sites and Patriarch Blessings, Copts will have a healthy dose of unique flavour events and missions to drive their liberation of the Holy Sites. Coptic Holy Sites will be a paid feature in the upcoming DLC, which will be released alongside the free 1.18 patch.

Next week I'll pass the reins back to Johan, as we return to see what changes have been going on in the Throne Room

 

[Llyw olaf]

Forget about Ethiopia and Armenia, will mighty Kaffa finally get unique NI's in 1.18?
I agree with the suggestions that Coptic should be renamed Miaphysite and that Orthodox could do with a touch up.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Forget about Ethiopia and Armenia, will mighty Kaffa finally get unique NI's in 1.18?
I agree with the suggestions that Coptic should be renamed Miaphysite and that Orthodox could do with a touch up.

To be fair, every non-reformed christian faith needs some touch up - copts/miaphysites get their own mechanic, orthodox could do with more events + some partiarchate mechanic and catholics should get other modifiers(negative modifier? really?) and changed papacy system(again) - current mechanic behind becoming the papal controller is usually too random and luck-based.

 

[Grand Historian]

and catholics should get other modifiers(negative modifier? really?) and changed papacy system(again) - current mechanic behind becoming the papal controller is usually too random and luck-based.

Indeed. I fail to see how pigeonholing you into taking religious is good design, especially when Reformed's +2 Heretic Tolerance is a click away (I mean, is it really to much to ask to be able to play a Humanist Catholic Venice or Genoa, like they were historically?).

 

[saegoto]

if Curia won't be random, player would always dominate it. AI has no chance to win against a human.

 

[seriousgigi]

Indeed. I fail to see how pigeonholing you into taking religious is good design, especially when Reformed's +2 Heretic Tolerance is a click away (I mean, is it really to much to ask to be able to play a Humanist Catholic Venice or Genoa, like they were historically?).

what historically humanism? for example people's spitting jews' face as a tradition in venice?

 

[MiniaAr]

For MP balance, there is Ethiopia, but there are also the Mamelukes. They start with two and can conquier another one almost at game start (the Nubian one). The 4th one in Aksum isn't too far away as well. Woudn't we see Coptic Mamelukes in every MP game?

 

[hajutze]

If there is no Ottoman, sure.

 

[Grand Historian]

if Curia won't be random, player would always dominate it. AI has no chance to win against a human.

You can't really say that the skills of the forum elite are indicative of the general player base. And randomness is not a good mechanic when there are concrete bonuses as an alternative.

 

[Dakka]

You can't really say that the skills of the forum elite are indicative of the general player base. And randomness is not a good mechanic when there are concrete bonuses as an alternative.

Glorious Forumite master race. Filthy casul peasants.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Muslims appear to have been the overwhelming majority in all of western Anatolia, the Greek population which one finds on 20th century maps was a result of migration to those coastal regions during the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

What was the main reason for the decline of the Greeks? Conversion to Islam or massacres? Wasn't there also something about interior Anatolia being depopulated pre Turkish conquest due to large olive/wine plantations being established there?

Greeks who converted to Islam in Anatolia quickly adopted the Turkish language.

Am I wrong or isn't there something about the main differences between Greeks and Turks (at least the western ones) are religion and language---at least in this era?

Also what is the reason that Greeks in Greece didn't convert too/got slaughtered too?

The only place which ever developed a significant Greek-speaking Muslim community was Crete, after its conquest in the seventeenth century.

How long did that Cretian Muslim community stick around?

It's just that 400 years earlier their ancestors were living on the Aegean Islands, not the mainland.

So the Aegean Isles were overpopulated back then?

 

[Guthuk Gaming]

if Curia won't be random, player would always dominate it. AI has no chance to win against a human.

AI can be smarter about their usage, and not dump points in to Curia when they're down 50 points already. They can be scripted to say "if points generated in 10 years < point disadvantage, then save to pour them in later." The Player can't generate enough points to always have curia control if the AI just save them for 1/3 of the elections instead of putting their points in to every hopeless election.

One of the biggest problems with Catholic and why multiplayer sees 100% protestant is: A. Protestant is OP. And B. Catholic's biggest bonus is too much RNG and crusades are their only military quality bonus that's situational and goes away in 1650.

 

[Chamboozer]

What was the main reason for the decline of the Greeks? Conversion to Islam or massacres? Wasn't there also something about interior Anatolia being depopulated pre Turkish conquest due to large olive/wine plantations being established there?

There seems to have been a lot of population flight from Anatolia, especially in the fourteenth century. Much of western Anatolia became a frontier zone between Turkish and Byzantine lords, and this made the peasants very vulnerable, particularly in the period after Byzantine authority collapsed but before Ottoman authority was established. Those who remained eventually converted to Islam. According to Speros Vryonis, the most cited historian on this topic, the primary cause of Greek conversion was the breakdown of the Orthodox Church structure, which also explains why the Greeks of the Balkans didn't convert: there the Orthodox Church remained intact and was tolerated by the Ottomans.

Am I wrong or isn't there something about the main differences between Greeks and Turks (at least the western ones) are religion and language---at least in this era?

The primary marker of identity was certainly religion, and people who converted would by necessity leave their old communities to join their new co-religionists, in the process becoming "Turkish". The interesting thing about Crete is that there the population of Greek converts to Islam quickly reached the critical mass needed to maintain local Greek-speaking communities, a result of the long and drawn out war between the Ottomans and Venetians (1645-69).

How long did that Cretian Muslim community stick around?

Until the population exchange in 1923.

So the Aegean Isles were overpopulated back then?

I'm not up to date on the details of this topic, but so far as I know the answer is yes, by the eighteenth century they were, and migration to the mainland after that time was a result of increasing economic opportunities there.

 

[saegoto]

One of the biggest problems with Catholic and why multiplayer sees 100% protestant is: A. Protestant is OP. And B. Catholic's biggest bonus is too much RNG and crusades are their only military quality bonus that's situational and goes away in 1650.

it could help reformed and catholics in MP games:
give back 15% morale to reformed. for catholics: new papal action - +0,5 yearly army tradition and curia controller gets +10% land morale
could it?

 

[Grand Historian]

it could help reformed and catholics in MP games:
give back 15% morale to reformed. for catholics: new papal action - +0,5 yearly army tradition and curia controller gets +10% land morale
could it?

The problem with Catholicism besides its inherent penalties is that the Curia is already OP enough - Catholic bonuses need to be further detached from the Curia, not piled onto it.

 

[Rikissa]

I tend to stay Catholic in most games but I've never been Curia Controller in over 1000 hours played

 

[Grand Historian]

I tend to stay Catholic in most games but I've never been Curia Controller in over 1000 hours played

Exactly. Catholicism is unbelievably OP if there's only one large Catholic nation left, as tends to happen in MP since Protestantism and Reformed are obviously better, but otherwise Catholicism is rather negligible beyond the free Stability and Mercantilism as most are bound to invest in those than a lottery.

 

[Grand Historian]

Well, what do you expect from a game that allows you to convert a province's culture in a small timeframe with absolutely no drawbacks?
Cultural and religious conversions in general need a larger overhaul. Cultural and religious changes in the world did not follow some template, they were affected by way too many things to be predictable.

Personally, I would just suggest adding in a rudimentary pop system. Like every level of basetax is a Civ-esque pop and has it's own religion and culture - it would slow down the rate of conversion, add in minorities, and be a boon to modders.

 

[Sun_Wu]

Personally, I would just suggest adding in a rudimentary pop system. Like every level of basetax is a Civ-esque pop and has it's own religion and culture - it would slow down the rate of conversion, add in minorities, and be a boon to modders.

M&T 2.0 is going to have a POP system and a religious minority system

 

[Grand Historian]

M&T 2.0 is going to have a POP system and a religious minority system

Is there any reason you're shamelessly advertising M&T in the DD?

 

[Sun_Wu]

Is there any reason you're shamelessly advertising M&T in the DD?

Because it's going to fix most of the complaints with vanilla. Casual players will still likely prefer a map painter, but others will prefer one that is more immerse and realistic