EU4 - Development Diary - 4th of December 2018

[kgmi]

I'm disappointed that there is no new dedicated achievements for Portugal in an Iberian immersion pack.

Looking forward to the DD after Golden Century.

Well then let us sum a few things up about the Iberian Immersion Pack!

Has the following things for Portugal:
- No new National Ideas (but Texas does)
- No dedicated Achievements (but Pirates do)
- 1 dedicated Naval Doctrine (but just a reskin of Artillery Barrage)
- Only 1 additional Province for a nation that is supposed to be "going tall" and punching above it's weight (like it did IRL)

Now, you can't show how much you don't care about Portugal than this, even if you set out to try.

Let's look at the "Beyond Typus 10.0" map overhaul mod, it has almost 20 total provinces for Portugal, when the payed Immersion Pack! Only adds 1 (lol), now you guys see where we are coming from? Anyway, to clarify 1 more thing, I am not here to rant, I mentioned these things to point something out, the lost focus during the development of this DLC. It was supposed to be for Iberia, so people got excited for new and interesting mechanics FOR Iberian tags. Yet the only cool thing seems to be pirate republics, now if this DLC was called "The Golden Age of Piracy", there would have never been such an outcry, heck people would be praising it for the neat bonus stuff like Flagships and Iberian map update.
You can't promis people fine Italian cuisine and then serve them industrial food.

 

[Lusitania]

Well then let us sum a few things up about the Iberian Immersion Pack!

Has the following things for Portugal:
- No new National Ideas (but Texas does)
- No dedicated Achievements (but Pirates do)
- 1 dedicated Naval Doctrine (but just a reskin of Artillery Barrage)
- Only 1 additional Province for a nation that is supposed to be "going tall" and punching above it's weight (like it did IRL)

Now, you can't show how much you don't care about Portugal than this, even if you set out to try.

Let's look at the "Beyond Typus 10.0" map overhaul mod, it has almost 20 total provinces for Portugal, when the payed Immersion Pack! Only adds 1 (lol), now you guys see where we are coming from? Anyway, to clarify 1 more thing, I am not here to rant, I mentioned these things to point something out, the lost focus during the development of this DLC. It was supposed to be for Iberia, so people got excited for new and interesting mechanics FOR Iberian tags. Yet the only cool thing seems to be pirate republics, now if this DLC was called "The Golden Age of Piracy", there would have never been such an outcry, heck people would be praising it for the neat bonus stuff like Flagships and Iberian map update.
You can't promis people fine Italian cuisine and then serve them industrial food.

I think the ND given to Portugal is quite beneficial to it, actually, and could offer amazing strategic benefits in every Age, but I agree completely with the rest of your points.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

I'd like to point out that for me, even if the community has indeed great ideas, the problem is not necessarily that you don't listen to us, but more that you are creating underwhelming DLCs, while there are great ideas out there. If you were doing your own amazing thing and pouring out great content, I'd be happy too.

This. Pdx should feel free to ignore our suggestions if there are better ideas developed internally, but at least explain to us, convince us, why you think they are better. Don't just drop them in and give an occasional one-liner in response to criticism. Explain to me why the Jesuits have to be around in 1444 and should be locked to Iberians. Otherwise I will remain convinced that the what is being sold really is subpar. Anyway, I hope that the dev diary of the 18th will start to go in that direction.

 

[Gyrvendal]

Sounds like you pushed “Call Diet” estate interaction

Exactly, and just like the in-game interaction it gives + popularity for X time, without any actual effects on the running of the nation.

I agree with others that correcting their behavior for future DLC is not enough. We need them to spend a few months "completing" Golden Century so it actually looks like a real DLC, not just vague promises for future development.

 

[mikumiku14]

I think there are characteristics of the portuguese military history that can't be represented in EUIV anyway. The colonial fights for dominance of trade happened in the place itself, but in EU there's no reason not to invade their mainland if you're Spain, for example. Part of that are abstractions like not having to wait months for a letter that tells you what happened somewhere in the pacific.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

I think the ND given to Portugal is quite beneficial to it, actually, and could offer amazing strategic benefits in every Age, but I agree completely with the rest of your points.

In paper the ND is fine but in practice...
Boarding speed? Useless.
No landing penalty is good but extremely circumstancial, it will never be of any help if you know how to properly naval invade and it wouldn't get you any advantage, only prevent you from getting in a disadvantage.
Its only a "loose less" not a win bonus.

 

[Lusitania]

In paper the ND is fine but in practice...
Boarding speed? Useless.
No landing penalty is good but extremely circumstancial, it will never be of any help if you know how to properly naval invade and it would get you any advantage, only prevent you from getting in a disadvantage.
Its only a "loose less" not a win bonus.

You're thinking of the flagship mod, I think? The ND given to Portugal reduces bombardment cost further and increases the Blockade Siege impact by 1.

And this is a very powerful boost. It should have just been accompanied by Mil Traditions like Infantry Combat Ability and Heavy Ship CA

 

[Van Kasten]

Just a few examples that are apparent from the currently active threads: On the first page of the main EU4 forum right now, there is a thread that calls a feature that of course can be questioned, but is still something a significant part of the player base agrees with "absolute garbage". There is a frequent poster with puerile "nicknames" for expansions that he doesn't like as his signature. In the discussion thread on the November 13th dev diary, people have just today openly expressed sympathy with a fascist party without any negative reaction whatsoever. Do I need to go on?

So, based on a few examples, you say that the entire fanbase that disagrees with the EU4 dev team decisions is toxic and non-cooperative? Seems like an easy stereotype. I suggest you to try (for real) to understand our positions. Otherwise, you will be judging a manifestation of dissent based on the three people who smash things for caos’ sake. We are not like that. We like and love EU4. And we want to love it more. But it must be gained love, not unconditional one. That’s all.

 

[Kadanz]

While I'm well aware that I'm going to be in a vanishingly small minority as I say this, I personally hope that you don't over-compensate and start giving undue weight to feedback and suggestions. Trying to please everyone is a certain route towards pleasing nobody. Trying to please exactly the people who shout and complain the loudest, even more so. I would much rather that you have your own vision for what you're trying to do with an expansion, that you commit to it, and that you communicate it clearly.

I'm not saying that there's no place at all for community feedback. There is. I just hope that it's kept small and proportionate.

This. I completely agree.

 

[Gyrvendal]

Yet the only cool thing seems to be pirate republics, now if this DLC was called "The Golden Age of Piracy", there would have never been such an outcry, heck people would be praising it for the neat bonus stuff like Flagships and Iberian map update.
You can't promis people fine Italian cuisine and then serve them industrial food.

Actually, if this DLC was called "the Golden Age of Piracy", people would be raging that the raiding mechanic is just a copy-paste of the existing mechanic for barbary pirates (which it is), and that it doesn't fit the pirates of the Caribbean at all, since they preyed mostly on merchant ships and not on coasts. The truth is, this DLC is just too light on meaningful features to justify its price, no matter what you name it.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Asturias? That thing still exists? I hoped it was deleted as it was not mentioned in the 3d models devdiary.

 

[AlphaSonic]

Not only they didn't delete Asturias since Leon already represents Asturias, they gave it an achievement. Good job.
Announcing an Irish achievement is a joke at this point.

 

[Gyrvendal]

Not only they didn't delete Asturias since Leon already represents Asturias, they gave it an achievement. Good job.
Announcing an Irish achievement is a joke at this point.

Actually, Asturias is a small region in northern Spain, east of Leon (not to be confused with the larger "Kingdom of Asturias" from medieval times). Just like Aragon is a small region, yet the "Kingdom of Aragon" is large.

 

[pizzapicante27]

These are very fair points to bring up, and one comment in particular resonated with me, and that is that our plans and what we are developing are often shared so late in development with the community that feedback and suggestions they want to give can't or won't be able to be integrated.

That WASNT what was being said in most places, while Im glad they recognize the uproar the community has, at the very least I see little indication that concerns over content, DLC policy or response to last week's banning and locking of threads has been taken into consideration, rather that only a selective part of the feedback has.

 

[kkeiper1103]

But why though? Seems a bit random, I'm not seeing where's the pun, easter egg or historical basis for that.

It's a reference to Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

[AlphaSonic]

Actually, Asturias is a small region in northern Spain, east of Leon (not to be confused with the larger "Kingdom of Asturias" from medieval times). Just like Aragon is a small region, yet the "Kingdom of Aragon" is large.

The Kingdom of Leon is the evolution of the Kingdom of Asturias. The Kingdom of Asturias ended in 924 and it became the Kingdom of Leon. For MORE THAN 500 years it ceased to exist. They've added an Asturias tag, just for an achievement.

 

[luanmameili]

Where Am I? - As a New World native with Random New World active, explore the entire New World.

Is it required to start as a primitive country? In other words, is it unavailable for non-primitive fantasy countries(mainly High American tech group) such as Crimson Empire?

 

[Kadanz]

So, based on a few examples, you say that the entire fanbase that disagrees with the EU4 dev team decisions is toxic and non-cooperative? Seems like an easy stereotype. I suggest you to try (for real) to understand our positions. Otherwise, you will be judging a manifestation of dissent based on the three people who smash things for caos’ sake. We are not like that. We like and love EU4. And we want to love it more. But it must be gained love, not unconditional one. That’s all.

Sometimes I can't help but feel, people purposely read what they want to read. What he was actually saying that among the dissidents there have been a few number of people who have been incredibly toxic. These people tend to fuel anger levels in other posters quite quickly, making it a very emotionally charged discussion and a volatile one. There is no win win situation for PDX in a scenario like this, sitting back and let the forum calm down is probably the best descision to make.

 

[Twoflower]

So, based on a few examples, you say that the entire fanbase that disagrees with the EU4 dev team decisions is toxic and non-cooperative? Seems like an easy stereotype. I suggest you to try (for real) to understand our positions. Otherwise, you will be judging a manifestation of dissent based on the three people who smash things for caos’ sake. We are not like that. We like and love EU4. And we want to love it more. But it must be gained love, not unconditional one. That’s all.

No, I was not saying that. I was not referring to the whole fanbase. It's of course not the whole fanbase that is behaving in the ways that I described. However, those three examples appear to be things that are tolerated by everyone.
Expressing criticism or dissatisfaction is completely ok. My point was about style, not substance.
But I really do not want to derail this thread any further. What I was trying to say originally is that feedback by the devs is desirable, but that discussions on controversial features have a tendency of becoming so hostile that I am pretty much at a loss as to which feedback by the devs e.g. on the missionary change while the discussion was still going on and they still weren't sure what to do about it gamedesign-wise would have done any good. Should they have posted': "We hear you, and we're still trying to decide what to do about your criticism?" I don't see the value in that, and I believe they can generally be given the benefit of doubt in regards to noticing and caring about feedback.
If they decide to improve the feedback process, that decision would certainly would work out better if the player base maintains a friendly, constructive, civil standard of discussion.

 

[Hojsimpson]

I think the ND given to Portugal is quite beneficial to it, actually, and could offer amazing strategic benefits in every Age, but I agree completely with the rest of your points.

Wait it's a naval doctrine???
So a DLC that requires more DLCs???