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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

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Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

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Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

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Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 
Not liking where this is going. If I am still worrying about forts in the 1700s, then something is wrong with this system. Let's hope it's still being tweaked. Perhaps artillery will play a bigger role now with bigger modifiers to sieges?

Since they were still worrying about forts during World War I (Verdun, for example, was a fort, one of many along the french border), I do not think that would be historically unplausible.
 
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No, you can't go further into enemy territory.

If you enter the ZoC of a fort, you can only go back to previous province OR on to the fort.


How big can Zone be? only 1 ring - then fine I can go into Terra Incognita and find fortress (although not being able to discover neighboring provinces to "see" incoming enemy sucks), but if country is medium size (or just weirdly shaped) and does have only capital fortess (say 1444 in central Asia, capital with fortress level 1), then how can I move through Zone?

I guess that in HRE, when I get access to all members, I can bypass enemy provinces using neutral party provinces (going e.g. for Austrian' s throat) - true or false?


Unrelated question
- will you ever increase number of provinces in Random New World?
 
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Not liking where this is going. If I am still worrying about forts in the 1700s, then something is wrong with this system. Let's hope it's still being tweaked. Perhaps artillery will play a bigger role now with bigger modifiers to sieges?
Why shouldn't you worry about forts in the 1700s? Haven't you heard about Vauban? Sieging forts is what 1700s warfare was all about, you'll have to wait for the Revolution and Napoleon to change all that. :)
 
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Since they were still worrying about forts during World War I (Verdun, for example, was a fort, one of many along the french border), I do not think that would be historically unplausible.

Not to mention that the Atlantic Wall was a system of forts during WWII. Not traditional fortresses, but same type of thought. Main reason I rarely upgrade forts right now is because I don't like wasting the MIL power on them (which is being removed next update). In addition, I find during wars I let too many provinces just fall so it makes regaining my provinces once I've turned the tide of war to be more frustrating than it would be if I left them all at level 2 forts.
 
So what Johan is implying is that if Lübeck has a fort 3 and Schleswig has a fort 1, then once war breaks out, Holstein will go to The Hansa or whomever controls Lübeck.

Yes


The question, however, is when a fort falls, is it considered "destroyed" and removed from the map or does it transfer control. I would have to guess the forts are now removed from the map?

No.
 
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What does 'taking control' mean?

Say I don't have forts on a border and the enemy does, does he autosiege my border provinces? What if I 'siege' (well walk through) a province adjacent to an enemy fort and move on, does it fall back to the enemy?
 
What does 'taking control' mean?

Say I don't have forts on a border and the enemy does, does he autosiege my border provinces? What if I 'siege' (well walk through) a province adjacent to an enemy fort and move on, does it fall back to the enemy?

Based on last Johans post it looks like thats the case, if you want to control the province, you will need to conquer the fort ,otherwise the fort will just retake it when you leave. Seems fine imo.
 
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Based on last Johans post it looks like thats the case, if you want to control the province, you will need to conquer the fort ,otherwise the fort will just retake it when you leave. Seems fine imo.

Absolutely. I had dev post mode activated and his post wasn't up when I wrote mine :/
But yeah, I approve as well.
 
Not liking where this is going. If I am still worrying about forts in the 1700s, then something is wrong with this system. Let's hope it's still being tweaked. Perhaps artillery will play a bigger role now with bigger modifiers to sieges?
generals still worried about forts in the 20th century
OT: what does the new burgundy setup mean for the burgundian inheritance
 
Based on last Johans post it looks like thats the case, if you want to control the province, you will need to conquer the fort ,otherwise the fort will just retake it when you leave. Seems fine imo.

Makes me curious if forts can form a defensive line without touching. How Johan mentions it, it's like an old 2d platformer. Super Mario goes left to right. Super Mario runs into a pipe. He either destroys the pipe or he goes back where he came from. But the game is not a 2d platformer. You can move in a theoretical 360 degrees of direction depending on province location. Since not every province will have a fort, what if there is a line of provinces from left to right. A, B, C, D, E. A, C, and E all have forts while B and D do not. Obviously, B and D are in the zone of control. Could a group of units just walk through B or D and ignore the forts? Or do they create a line of power that prevents movement past those positions? If you can just move through B and D, then forts will have most use in places like Holstein, Aland, Northern Ireland (forget the province name.. Ulster?), etc, but little use in a nation as massive as France or Muscovy. That is, unless they are worth massive war score like someone suggested.
 
How large is the ZoC for forts?
Good question. I guess it varies for different fort level, level 1 getting no ZoC, level 2 getting 1 or provinces' ZoC, etc.

Wrong, it's just neighboring province

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them.
Bold mine

You best not spread misinformation if you can't be bothered to read. I'm just saying.
 
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Makes me curious if forts can form a defensive line without touching. How Johan mentions it, it's like an old 2d platformer. Super Mario goes left to right. Super Mario runs into a pipe. He either destroys the pipe or he goes back where he came from. But the game is not a 2d platformer. You can move in a theoretical 360 degrees of direction depending on province location. Since not every province will have a fort, what if there is a line of provinces from left to right. A, B, C, D, E. A, C, and E all have forts while B and D do not. Obviously, B and D are in the zone of control. Could a group of units just walk through B or D and ignore the forts? Or do they create a line of power that prevents movement past those positions? If you can just move through B and D, then forts will have most use in places like Holstein, Aland, Northern Ireland (forget the province name.. Ulster?), etc, but little use in a nation as massive as France or Muscovy. That is, unless they are worth massive war score like someone suggested.

Well Johann did write you can't walk past a zone of control. I imagine this means you can enter one 'level' of zoc.
So yeah you can walk into b, but if the provinces behind b are also in zoc, you can't proceed but need to back out or march on a fort.
That'd be my guess at least.

Edit: rereading his posts, I was mistaken. You have to go back to home turf it seems.
 
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Ah. I see! So forts simply won't exist in most every province like they do now. They will be strategically placed. Interesting... I think I am actually starting to love this idea. This actually does make more sense for larger nations as in real life, you armies didn't just sack fort after fort. Pick and choose what causes their opponent to crumble.. Awesome! Though I am concerned the HRE will be close to 100% forts due to all the minor nations having only one or two provinces...


well johan did say that most small nations may not be able to afford them.
 
Wrong, it's just neighboring province


Bold mine

You best not spread misinformation if you can't be bothered to read. I'm just saying.

Actually, you are wrong. We don't know for sure how many provinces the zone of control will include. The word adjacent does NOT mean right next door. It means this according to dictionary.com:

"1. lying near, close, or contiguous; adjoining; neighboring"

That is why when you play RISK and you do a free move at the end of a turn, the instructions say you can move armies from any adjacent territory to another. That means you can move armies from Brazil to Alaska so long as you own a land connection between the two. I remember explaining this to my father years ago when we were playing RISK and he thought you could only move one territory at a time if free moving.

*edit* Turns out I was actually 100% wrong! :D
 
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Wow, this is indeed a huge change and one for the better in my opinion. You can finally really fortify your borders to deter the enemy.

But what about Marches? Will they still receive the same bonuses they had before? And will they be more inclined to building forts on their borders or better yet, could their overlord build forts for them?
 
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