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Today is thursday, the day of the God of Thunder, so what is a more appropriate way to celebrate than with a development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. We’ve talked about development and politics the last few weeks, so now its time to talk a bit more about warfare again, before going back to more peacetime-related activities.

All of this mentioned in this development diary will be in the free update accompanying the next expansion.

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won’t cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

fH0WehV.jpg



Looting
As we promised, we have now completely revised how looting works. Now there is a “pile” of possible loot in a province, which is directly tied to have developed the province is.

At the end of each month, all hostile units in a province attempt to loot, and the amount they loot depend on how many regiments you have there, and what types they are, where cavalry is by far the best. Some ideas and governments increase the amount you loot each month, where for example Steppe Hordes gains a nice boost.

A province starts recovering from being looted when 6 months have passed since last loot, and it takes up to a year until it has fully recovered.

Of course, the penalty on a province from being looted is still there until it has fully recovered, but it is scaled on how much have been looted.

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Committed Armies
One of the major complaints we have had on the combat in Eu4, has been the fact that you can fully abort your movement whenever you liked. This have been changed, and now you can’t abort your movement if you have already moved 50% of the way. After all, its just common sense that a unit that have already moved halfway between the centers of two provinces is already in the second one.

Force Limits
We felt that the calculations of forcelimits where far too hidden from the player, Players saw stuff like “+25.87 from Provinces”, which based based on projections of base-tax amongst other things, and sometimes those dropped for no obvious reasons.

Now you will be able to see in each province how much it provides to your forcelimits, and we have cleaned up the logic.

Each level of development gives 0.1 land and naval forcelimit.
Overseas will provide -2 land and -2 naval forcelimit
Inland provinces will not provide any naval forcelimit.
However, a province will never be able to provide negative forcelimits.

A nation also have a base value of +3 land and +2 naval force limit, and there are some other ways to get direct forcelimit increased, that are not just percentage increases.

IRmTjoZ.jpg



Next week, we'll be back and talk more about The Devout.
 
One thing that had always bothered me in EU games was the forts. Basically, you have let's say level 3 forts in your 100 provinces, means you have an army of 300 000 soldiers free of maintenance sitting in your forts.
And another thing was ability to march from one side of France to another without bothering with sieges and supply limits and other such nonsense.


Whoa, still, this is totally going to change how the game is played. That also means that you can't just follow up and annihilate enemy army, if they retreat, they retreat to safe line behind their forts. Interesting...

Still, wish there was a slider for individual forts. Semi-dangerous place, don't need full garrison, 1000 men will do just fine, thanks. Enough to hold the province until my main force comes to rescue (or die bravely attempting to defend at least).

Even better- if forts also used manpower. So garrisoning 5000 men would be even more hit.
 
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If i understood well, he said, when you enter ZoC you can either: 1. stay there, 2. move to fort, 3. go back from where you came. No other options.

This would then mean you can't go dance around the fort to next provinces to loot for example - you would need to go back to your own province and then enter the ZoC again if you have access to another province. -This might be a bit annoying but i suppose its not a big deal.
 
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WhiskyGlen said:
So what Johan is implying is that if Lübeck has a fort 3 and Schleswig has a fort 1, then once war breaks out, Holstein will go to The Hansa or whomever controls Lübeck.



I beg you to reconsider your answer/idea.

Why fort on one/my side of border should automatically get control over terrain on the other/enemy side of border? IMO it should not work like that even with provinces without fort, and especially not against any fort.
Forts are defensive feature, unless they have access to rocket launchers and orbital weapons - but that is outside EU timeframe. They should not project anything across border or fort 100 km away.

Capture of fort should allow control (or maybe even give control) of its Zone, and Zones should not overlap.




Example 1 (re provinces over border): country without fort, I build fort 1 on border, dow and instantly get occupation of all country except capital?
Example 2 (re smaller vs larger fort): I capture enemy fort level 7, why should forts level 1/3/5 in neighboring provinces auto-surrender?




Edit: questions from my previous post (to keep them all together):

How big can Zone be? only 1 ring - then fine I can go into Terra Incognita and find fortress (although not being able to discover neighboring provinces to "see" incoming enemy sucks), but if country is medium size (or just weirdly shaped) and does have only capital fortess (say 1444 in central Asia, capital with fortress level 1), then how can I move through Zone?

I guess that in HRE, when I get access to all members, I can bypass enemy provinces using neutral party provinces (going e.g. for Austrian' s throat) - true or false?


Unrelated question
- will you ever increase number of provinces in Random New World?
 
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Wrong, it's just neighboring province


Bold mine

You best not spread misinformation if you can't be bothered to read. I'm just saying.

Eh, desinformation? We are just asking, guessing, and speculating, just like everyone else. And it actually makes for higher-level forts to have a larger ZoC.

So stick to reading developers' posts only if you are getting upset by reading other people's questions, thoughts, and ideas.
 
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Woah, what a DD! Dems be huge changes, and potentially very good - it always felt a little off that every province was sieged, when warfare back in the day tended to revolve around sieges of large fortresses, as did defensive strategies of nations. Given the larger garrison sizes, the ZOCs make a lot of sense, and it will help make the military side of the game far more plausible. I was always going to grab the expansion at launch, but it's great to hear the changes are coming in the free patch as well :). Upkeep and mothballing of forts also sounds great. Inspired changes I reckon, although they also may take a patch or two to get the balance quite right.

Qn - when you say "you have to siege down the fortress" before you can move through the ZOC, do you have to complete the siege, or do you only have to invest the fortress. If the fort isn't invested, then it makes a lot of sense that the garrison can exert its influence in surrounding provinces, but once that fort's been invested (with a sizeable force, by the look of things), then is it possible for other armies to move past? As long as investing a fort takes a sensible sized force, it wouldn't allow for crazy exploits or the like, and it would be consistent with how things were done way back when.
 
If i understood well, he said, when you enter ZoC you can either: 1. stay there, 2. move to fort, 3. go back from where you came. No other options.

This would then mean you can't go dance around the fort to next provinces to loot for example - you would need to go back to your own province and then enter the ZoC again if you have access to another province. -This might be a bit annoying but i suppose its not a big deal.

Right, but provinces are often strangely shaped and depending on if zone of control is based on province number or a circumference mileage, then forts may or may not be that effective. They would be almost useless as a nation like Muscovy as it's full of provinces, but most are very low tax base. You could defend against maybe one country, but good luck securing a large portion of that border if forts are as expensive as they seem.

Anyways, I've been overly vocal on this thread, so time to get some Z's. This is the most exciting I've been about a game since the announcement of Command and Conquer: Tiberian Sun (which turned out to be a major disappointment) and I've stayed up an hour and a half later than intended!
 
Actually, you are wrong. We don't know for sure how many provinces the zone of control will include. The word adjacent does NOT mean right next door. It means this according to dictionary.com:

"1. lying near, close, or contiguous; adjoining; neighboring"

That is why when you play RISK and you do a free move at the end of a turn, the instructions say you can move armies from any adjacent territory to another. That means you can move armies from Brazil to Alaska so long as you own a land connection between the two. I remember explaining this to my father years ago when we were playing RISK and he thought you could only move one territory at a time if free moving.

Nope you are wrong
The "teleportation rule" is a common house rule, but a strict reading of the rule, that is to say the canon, is still just the bordering province
 
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Eh, desinformation? We are just asking, guessing, and speculating, just like everyone else. And it actually makes for higher-level forts to have a larger ZoC.

So stick to reading developers' posts only if you are getting upset by reading other people's questions, thoughts, and ideas.

Not to mention Ferrous Will wasn't 100% right anyways due to his misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "adjacent." He could be right. But until it's clarified, it's not known how many provinces a fort will control.
 
If I understand correctly this new fort system could allow you to carpet siege and fully occupy medium size countries very quickly. Say something like Hungary at game start has 3 forts + capital, theoretically to siege all their provinces you need 5000x4 to cover the forts + 1000xn were n is the number of provinces in those forts zones of control (placed in adjacent provinces to prevent unit recruitment). So as long as you can get military access through to several of their borders and as long as they don't have any interior provinces that are completely surrounded by the zones of control of their forts you could potentially have the whole country occupied in a year with good dice rolls.
 
I beg you to reconsider your answer/idea.

Why fort on one/my side of border should automatically get control over terrain on the other/enemy side of border? IMO it should not work like that even with provinces without fort, and especially not against any fort.
Forts are defensive feature, unless they have access to rocket launchers and orbital weapons - but that is outside EU timeframe. They should not project anything across border or fort 100 km away.

Capture of fort should allow control (or maybe even give control) of its Zone, and Zones should not overlap.




Example 1 (re provinces over border): country without fort, I build fort 1 on border, dow and instantly get occupation of all country except capital?
Example 2 (re smaller vs larger fort): I capture enemy fort level 7, why should forts level 1/3/5 in neighboring provinces auto-surrender?
Provinces without forts are automatically occupied when an army moves through them. The only thing you will need to siege are provinces with forts.

This fort control thing is then not much different from having to move 1 unit into this fort-less province.
 
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Not to mention Ferrous Will wasn't 100% right anyways due to his misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "adjacent." He could be right. But until it's clarified, it's not known how many provinces a fort will control.
I'm open to the possibility that i understood the word adjacent wrong, but frankly if a province A is two provinces away from province B i wouldn't call A and B adjacent.
 
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If i understood well, he said, when you enter ZoC you can either: 1. stay there, 2. move to fort, 3. go back from where you came. No other options.

This would then mean you can't go dance around the fort to next provinces to loot for example - you would need to go back to your own province and then enter the ZoC again if you have access to another province. -This might be a bit annoying but i suppose its not a big deal.

Unless enemy and his fort is in Terra Incognita.
 
Nope you are wrong
The "teleportation rule" is a common house rule, but a strict reading of the rule, that is to say the canon, is still just the bordering province

http://www.mazenville.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/risk_instructions_manual.pdf

Page 6, Phase 3.

"To fortify your position, you may move any number of units from one of your territories to another 'connected territory' provided that the first territory is not left empty.

Territories are 'connected' if they are directly adjacent or if all the territories in between are controlled by you."

I guess by that definition, they are using the word adjacent as right next door, but that is not by definition, how it has to be.
 
It's not a house rule. The instructions on my version clearly show moving armies from a South Western African territory to South America.
there also the possibility that, because you are allowed to do infinite amount of adjacent moves you have this misconception that adjacent does not mean strictly bordering.
As in you move your dice one province multiple times, of course in the actual game, to save time, you wouldn't do that, but i think you know what i mean.

EDIT:typo fixes
 
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Dayum, this looks great. Also, exploitable, especially with no more movement cancel. Can't wait to see it in action and figure out the system myself.
I guess I won't be able to just march a mercenary+artillery doomstack and assault Paris during the first month of the war, and then go back to regular sieges anymore.
Heh. Awesome. I already was a huge fan of a gradual, rolling sieges with large stacks. This will fit nicely with my usual playstyle.
 
Provinces without forts are automatically occupied when an army moves through them. The only thing you will need to siege are provinces with forts.

This fort control thing is then not much different from having to move 1 unit into this fort-less province.

Read please fragments I am quoting. As far as I understood, Whiskey Glen asked if Hanseatic level 3 fort will on day one take control over level 1 fort in SLesvig. Johan said yes.
It has nothing to do with moving army and sieges.
 
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