EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[Mingmung]

I could only find a diplomacy lense, sorry. IMO, though, this one is 95% ideal (would tweak a couple of border details and names)

Probably a bit too crowded (as is the case with most of MEIOU), but the general work does look great indeed. A look at this map and the others that got proposed, would've prevented this shitstorm.

 

[navaluiki]

I could only find a diplomacy lense, sorry. IMO, though, this one is 95% ideal (would tweak a couple of border details and names)

I really like MEIOU maps, but I understand that perhaps the Devs could think there are too many provinces.
However, I think my Iberian proposal was a good compromise between having a detailed and historically accurate Iberia and also being balanced for gameplay:

And if it were up to me, I would add even more provinces.



I really like these mountain ranges, they should be in EU4 too. Iberia is quite a mountanous region in real life and does not seem so ingame

 

[tommassi]

38 provinces for Castile at game start in that map if I'm counting right. To put that into perspective, that is eleven more provinces than France has in 1444. So much for game balance, I guess.

 

[navaluiki]

38 provinces for Castile at game start in that map if I'm counting right. To put that into perspective, that is eleven more provinces than France has in 1444. So much for game balance, I guess.

But don't forget that half of France is under British control (or controlled by minor French nations) and is easy to take by France (even by the AI). And these provinces also has much more development than the ones in Iberia.

Pd: Don't misinterpret me. I support adding more provinces in France. Actually in my Iberian suggestion thread I have some new potential provinces for Southern France too

 

[navaluiki]

I also hoped they would include more provinces in France with this patch

 

[tommassi]

But don't forget that half of France is under British control (or controlled by minor French nations) and is easy to take by France (even by the AI). And these provinces also has much more development than the ones in Iberia.

Pd: Don't misinterpret me. I support adding more provinces in France. Actually in my Iberian suggestion thread I have some new potential provinces for Southern France too

There is no single province as easy to take for France as the 4 provinces of Grenade. Also, while they do get the Burgundian inheritance, there is a decent chance that that very same event also brings free provinces for Castile. And of course, the Iberian wedding. 38 provinces for Castile at gamestart as the map stands right now in the rest of Europe is not solving the problems of balance that iberian countries suffer right now: it´s creating the same issues but from the other side.

 

[Mingmung]

We should be very happy with 2-3 more provinces in all of Iberia. It would suffice, in my opinion, compared to France, England and Poland. More would be overkill.

EDIT: People can disagree, but we should stay reasonable and realistic.

 

[navaluiki]

There is no single province as easy to take for France as the 4 provinces of Grenade. Also, while they do get the Burgundian inheritance, there is a decent chance that that very same event also brings free provinces for Castile. And of course, the Iberian wedding. 38 provinces for Castile at gamestart as the map stands right now in the rest of Europe is not solving the problems of balance that iberian countries suffer right now: it´s creating the same issues but from the other side.

Well Granada is easy to take, that's true. But the Burgundian Inheritance is a random event that most of the times doesn't happen or happens to Austria. Besides I's also in favor of reworking that event.
And perhaps the problem is not Iberia, maybe it's the British Isles, that regions has way too many provinces. If (and I emphasize "if") Iberia had the same amount or province densitity as the British Isles, it would have like 105 provinces. My suggestion only rises the amount of provinces to 71 (I can even gladly remove 3 or 4 of them). Just for a comparison. I don't think it is that ambitious.
And as I already said Iberia is large, it was very populated, it was very rich and was very very important in world History.

We should be very happy with 2-3 more provinces in all of Iberia. It would suffice, in my opinion, compared to France, England and Poland. More would be overkill.

EDIT: People can disagree, but we should stay reasonable and realistic.

Well England is already overkill IMO and Poland now has a lot of tiny provinces. But yeah, France should have more provinces too.

 

[Yevardian]

There are too many provinces in general, with few exceptions, Spain not among them. Adding more strategic wastelands would be better.

Selling DLC through chopping up provinces is lazy and has already broken most buildings that were still worth making.
This whilst simultaneously encouraging ‘tall’ (aka stacking dev spam modifiers and doing nothing) play, lol.

That said, I applaud paradox for the latest AI dev diary. Unfortunately such real improvements don’t attract the plebs.

 

[navaluiki]

There are too many provinces in general, with few exceptions, Spain not among them. Adding more strategic wastelands would be better.

Selling DLC through chopping up provinces is lazy and has already broken most buildings that were still worth making.

The problem with Spain is that they have added useless and tiny provinces that were backwaters at the time like Ibiza (with less that 10000 inhabitants) but some of the most populated regions like Old Castille, León or Extremadura just have a few big ugly provinces when they have like 15 or 20 times more populations than Ibiza (just each of those provinces). The problem is not just that Spain has too few or too many provinces, the problem is that they are also very badly distributed. And let's not even talk about development, it's completely ahistorical. Could you imagine a game set in 21st Century where Nevada has 3 times the development of New York for example? And also having Nevada split in 4 provinces while the entire state of New York is just 1? That's pretty much the problem with Spain right now.

 

[Yevardian]

You could point to hundreds of provinces anywhere in the world with the same nitpick... But people only notice with their precious Spain.

Reminder that Spain would certainly never have ever become a great power if not for the Americas. Sweden, Holland, Venice or Florence boast far more accomplishments relative to their size and population.
Iberia was always the most backward area of all Western Europe, and Iberia itself has quite poor soil compared to France, which people say it should equal in dev.

 

[Mingmung]

You could point to hundreds of provinces anywhere in the world with the same nitpick... But people only notice with their precious Spain.

Reminder that Spain would certainly never have ever become a great power if not for the Americas. Sweden, Holland, Venice or Florence boast far more accomplishments relative to their size and population.
Iberia was always the most backward area of all Western Europe, and Iberia itself has quite poor soil compared to France, which people say it should equal in dev.

It should definetely not equal, I agree with that, but the rest is not very true. Spain definetely misses some important cities while far less important ones did get added. France, Poland and England don't really have that problem.

 

[Yevardian]

Only Basques and Portugal really need another province or 2 imo.
And yes England has a ridiculous number of provinces...tbh I don’t think the game was designed with such density everywhere.

 

[Mingmung]

Only Basques and Portugal really need another province or 2 imo.
And yes England has a ridiculous number of provinces...tbh I don’t think the game was designed with such density everywhere.

1 for Portugal and 1 for Castille and I'm perfectly content.

Most important aspect for me is the actual fixing of the region in terms of city-placement and naming, same with the Maghreb.

 

[navaluiki]

You could point to hundreds of provinces anywhere in the world with the same nitpick... But people only notice with their precious Spain.

Reminder that Spain would certainly never have ever become a great power if not for the Americas. Sweden, Holland, Venice or Florence boast far more accomplishments relative to their size and population.
Iberia was always the most backward area of all Western Europe, and Iberia itself has quite poor soil compared to France, which people say it should equal in dev.

Nope, until the 16th Century the most backward area of Western Europe was the British Isles (please, we are talking about the past, forget that 21st Century bias, things change over time).
Iberia had one the largest cities in the world during the Middles Ages and during the Roman Empire France (Gallia) was considered more backwards than Iberia by the Romans themselves (some of the most important emperors like Trajan were even born in Iberia).
And Castille and Aragon were already major powers before the discovery of the Americas, they were even among the most populated states in Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1500
And the Caliphate of Córdoba was one of the most populated in the world too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1000

 

[tommassi]

I thino we should stop equating population with wealth. Castile was decently populated, but mostly poor. And it remained so (like pretty much all of Iberia with few exceptions). The money and wealth of Spanish kings usually came from elsewhere. And it was also spent elsewhere.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

But people only notice with their precious Spain.

You realise we are talking about an Immersion Pack for Iberia... if now is not the time to update Spain, when is?

There are too many provinces in general, with few exceptions, Spain not among them. Adding more strategic wastelands would be better.

Selling DLC through chopping up provinces is lazy and has already broken most buildings that were still worth making.
This whilst simultaneously encouraging ‘tall’ (aka stacking dev spam modifiers and doing nothing) play, lol.

That said, I applaud paradox for the latest AI dev diary. Unfortunately such real improvements don’t attract the plebs.

Map updates aren't sold, and we are perfectly capable of appreciating both AI changes and better maps.

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

You could point to hundreds of provinces anywhere in the world with the same nitpick... But people only notice with their precious Spain.

Reminder that Spain would certainly never have ever become a great power if not for the Americas. Sweden, Holland, Venice or Florence boast far more accomplishments relative to their size and population.
Iberia was always the most backward area of all Western Europe, and Iberia itself has quite poor soil compared to France, which people say it should equal in dev.

Well I mean I'd happily lobby for a supplemental Northern Italy dev/province boost as well but this thread is for discussing the Iberia immersion pack mate. And even then there's a great deal of lobbying in this here thread for an Occitanian revamp as well to maintain French dominance in Western Europe whilst still affording the Iberian nations a decent-sized economic base to realize their historic potential.

Granted there's been a few people flirting with the idea of adding MEIOU-level province density, but for the majority here I think would be satisfied with one or two Portuguese provinces so they don't get annexed by the Berbers every 1-in-3 games, and a little adjustment in central Iberia (with a few tertiary city placement tweaks rounding out the whole faux controversy.)

It wouldn't be such a big deal but Iberia hasn't had a proper update in years so if it's not finished properly now chances are it never will because EUV can't be all that far off.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

There are too many provinces in general, with few exceptions, Spain not among them. Adding more strategic wastelands would be better.

Selling DLC through chopping up provinces is lazy and has already broken most buildings that were still worth making.
This whilst simultaneously encouraging ‘tall’ (aka stacking dev spam modifiers and doing nothing) play, lol.

That said, I applaud paradox for the latest AI dev diary. Unfortunately such real improvements don’t attract the plebs.

You could point to hundreds of provinces anywhere in the world with the same nitpick... But people only notice with their precious Spain.

Reminder that Spain would certainly never have ever become a great power if not for the Americas. Sweden, Holland, Venice or Florence boast far more accomplishments relative to their size and population.
Iberia was always the most backward area of all Western Europe, and Iberia itself has quite poor soil compared to France, which people say it should equal in dev.

Okay,, the division of provinces isn't just about development, it's also about:

1)occupation speed ;
2)making possible presence of important trade goods (like salt in Portugal, where the heck is it?);
3) properly divide terrain divisions;
4) reflect historical routes;
5) make linear wastelands possible;
6) make cultural, religious, regional and land-sea interaction divisions possible;

So right off the bat the way you're putting things is kind of missing the point. The population argument has been refuted in this thread "ad nauseum" already.

Secondly.... kind of a condescending way to characterize the people in this thread, saying they only care about getting their countries buffed instead of gameplay. I think that if you go back to the AI thread, you'll see plenty people who posted here also complimenting the AI changes there.

 

[tommassi]

Wastelands within the iberian peninsula? There should be none. Not even the Pyrenees.