EUIV - Development Diary - 11th of February 2020

[viron1997]

Great dev diary!! The thing that most consern me is about the DoF and number of countries issue.. I believe a better solution would be the precentage of provinces of you faith beeing under the right state religion (of the said faith).. for ex you get tier 5 when 100% of your faith's provinces are subjects to countries with your faith as state religion... that removes the issue of countries with small faith (ex. Anglican) and also it has a lot more meaning. You defend the people of the faith (the provinces) and you make sure they are not beeing persecuted (correct state religion).

 

[Unit101]

I suggest an alternative: as a defender of the faith, you get points for liberating provinces belonging to your religion but in the hands of heretics/heathens. You lose points whenever provinces of your faith are taken by a heretic/heathen. You also lose points whenever a province converts.

That should show your worth as a meaningful defender.

 

[Unit101]

What if you use a system like power projection.
You get or lose points for doing things. When you reach 25/100 point you get the first tier bonus, at 50/100 you get the second tier bonus, at 75/100 you get the third tier bonus + you can get a defensive call to arms, and at 100/100 another bonus, and lastly at -25/100 you get a malus to relation with country of same religion.

(These are some examples)
You can get points by
- be in a war with a country of different religion that has provinces of your religion (a monthly or yearly bonus, like 0.1 a month or something)
- be the difender of a war against a different religion country
- not having country with different religion boarding you (with a max points, like can't get more than 5 points that way)
- conquering land of your religion from a different religion country (like with power projection you get for getting land from a rival)

And you can loose points by
- be at peace (and without truce) with a different religion country that border you
- lose land in a war against a different religion
- be in a war against same religion country
- you change religion (you go to 0/100) and get a malus to relation with the old religion countries

This is better than what I posted.

Either way, not something based on number of countries or static situations that require little interaction.

 

[LazyTitan0514]

Please add:

• a core all button
• A demand state button in the peace treaty interface
• A auto convert option so your missionaries automatically go out and convert without the player having to click 4-5 buttons every few months to send them out
• A auto colonize state option so you don’t have to be constantly switching back and forth between old and new world to press send colonist on provinces
• An event for our lady of Guadalupe to convert Mexico to catholic

 

[Alfray Stryke]

An event for our lady of Guadalupe to convert Mexico to catholic

What if Mexico is Korean cultured and Tengri religion?

 

[LazyTitan0514]

What if Mexico is Korean cultured and Tengri religion?

It should only fire when Mexico has been conquered by a catholic empire.

 

[Kazakh]

What's the point in adding more buffs to already powerful nations/religions?

 

[Make Victoria 3]

That it is better for you if there are other nations to defend.

I mean its called Defender of the Faith not Defender of nations with the same faith (granted thats what the title is about but you still defend the faith if you are the only nation with this faith and get attacked).

 

[AlleyTheToaster]

I dunno, I feel like rebels need to have more of an impact when they spawn.

Where did they come from? I don't lose any manpower. I don't lose any development. I just killed 21k people from SOMEWHERE in my country, but I'm unsure where.

I feel like rebels need a rework more than any system in the game.

Well, I agree. I think they should work more like in ck2 or imperator. Where they actually take part of your territory for the time of rebellion, manpower, maybe even part of your army.

 

[Will Steel]

I dunno, I feel like rebels need to have more of an impact when they spawn.

Where did they come from? I don't lose any manpower. I don't lose any development. I just killed 21k people from SOMEWHERE in my country, but I'm unsure where.

I feel like rebels need a rework more than any system in the game.

I agree. Rebellions and civil wars need a rework, and have needed it for a while now.

It feels like rebels don't really have any impact on your nation, currently. Unless you have a Mingplosion levels of mass rebellions all at once, you can crush them in months and nothing really changes. They should destroy buildings and take away development from provinces, and should be harmful. They are not whack-a-mole like they used to be, but they are very ineffective.

Maybe there can be more factors for rebellions. Like bankruptcy/too many loans/very high inflation rate.

There can also be a few more types of rebellions.

- A high skill general with a weakling extremely-low-legitimacy ruler could launch a coup as a pretender (or convert it into a civil war). Same for weak-trait rulers in republics.
- A weak heir in regency could see an advisor trying to seize power.
- All estates could have a rebel type to make them matter and prevent their use as cash/mana cows that has been happening since estates were introduced. Power of these rebels should grow based on influence, number of territories they hold and loyalty and such. A successful rebellion should allow them to seize more territories and have extra effects.

Then there is civil wars.

Civil wars should be destructive and dangerous, not just another same rebellion with more cavalry and generals. Battles and rebel occupation in civil wars should destroy buildings, reduce province development and generally damage the country. On top of that, generals, units and entire armies (as well as manpower) should have a chance to defect on both sides via events. There should also be a small chance of assassination events against various people.

Any civil war that lasts even moderately long should wreck a country for decades, followed by recovery events.

A redesigned rebel system will make the game much more fun to play with, since rebels, estates and potential threats will actually matter in gameplay.

 

[Canute VII]

Great dev diary!! The thing that most consern me is about the DoF and number of countries issue.. I believe a better solution would be the precentage of provinces of you faith beeing under the right state religion (of the said faith).. for ex you get tier 5 when 100% of your faith's provinces are subjects to countries with your faith as state religion... that removes the issue of countries with small faith (ex. Anglican) and also it has a lot more meaning. You defend the people of the faith (the provinces) and you make sure they are not beeing persecuted (correct state religion).

Interesting idea. I would go even further by asking a few questions. Essentially, what does the DoF represent and in which situation boni are warranted?

1. If the DoF is a tiny country with a lot of other small countries of his religion to defend (total development=1000), should he get max boni? Yes, I think we can agree on this.
2. If the DoF is a tiny country with one big other country of his religion to defend (total development=1000), should he get max boni? This requires a bit of an argument. At first sight, one would say, yes, since total dev that the DoF defends is the same. On second sight, one might say, no, since the DoF will have to fight in less wars if he's defending only one country than when he defends a lot of countries. On third sight, one may revert the answer to yes again, since the few wars will be a lot more difficult given that the opponents likely will be a lot stronger. However, the big country will be strong itself and probably do the heavy lifting, so maybe no again. In the end, the real question is: how likely is it that the small country stays DoF, given that the big country has got more ressources to claim the title for itself?
3. If the DoF is a large country with only a small country of his religion to defend, should he get max boni? No, I think we can agree that this would be too easy.
4. If the DoF is the only country with the true religion, should he get max boni? No, because DoF should represent that you defend your brethren even if you would have no need nor responsibility otherwise, i.e. just defending yourself is not enough.
5. If the DoF tolerates heathens inside its borders, should he get max boni? No, since evidently he doesn't support the faith with all his powers even though within his own borders he has max control.
6. If the DoF tolerates that a province of his religion is owned by a heathen country, should he get max boni? No, since his duty is to defend his brethren.

So what follows from that? Let's calculate some score:

score = (world's total development of true faith - world's true faith development owned by heathen) / DoF's total development

Vassals, CNs etc. would not be included in the "DoF total development", so count for score if they are of the true religion.

I have not tested this but the DoF tiers could be given like

score <=1 then cannot claim DoF
score >1 and <=2 then tier 1
score >2 and <=3 then tier 2
score >3 and <=4 then tier 3
score >4 and <=5 then tier 4
score > 5 then tier 5

So what this boils down to is:

• if your score is <1 you have to earn the privilege to claim DoF first by converting your own heathen provinces and actually spreading your faith abroad
• a higher score can mean two things: you have been successful in spreading your faith or its not of your making but your responsibilities vs. your breathren will be immens
• adopting humanist ideas will not be optimal if you want to be a successful DoF, since it will not help in converting your provinces or spreading your faith. Religious ideas will become more meaningful if aiming for DoF (deus vult, I say). Generally, the choice between religious and humanist will be more meaningful.
• with such a system, opening the mechanic to non-abrahamic religions could be feasible. E.g. Ming will not be able to claim DoF in 1444 since its score will be <1, but if it wanted to go religious+non-harmonist then the DoF mechanic would be available in principle. For the rest, spending 500 ducats on claiming DoF will be a huge investment anyway, so e.g. an obscure animist OPM may claim DoF technically, but will likely not due to a lack of ducats.
• another upside of this system against a dependency on #countries is that it is less arbitrary and takes the size of the DoF into account. So e.g. the Ottomans in 1444 would likely only be able to claim a lower tier, since they have so much development, much of it not of the true faith. If the Ottos expand into egypt, DoF score decreases. If they expand into south-east europe, DoF score decreases. A strong DoF score will be more easily achieved by "playing tall".

@Groogy I'm late to the party, but what do you think about this?


EDIT: So there's another case to consider:

7. If the DoF is a large country with many small countries of his religion to defend (total dev small ctries = tot dev DoF), should he get only the tier one boni? And what if it's only one equally large country to defend? I believe the answer in both scenarios is yes. But in the first scenario all those tiny countries will develop their capitals, so this is an intrinsic advantage for the DoF to auto-ameliorate his DoF tier, provided he keeps those small countries alive.

 

[imcool]

If you are the only nation in a religion do you keep the benefits of tier one or is the mechanic not valid anymore

 

[Sarashi]

Maybe there should be something to allow certain religions that will always have less countries and have a more intimate relationship with the state to require less countries (if we choose to go for that requirement)

Something like 20% less for orthodox at 100% authority (since the local head of the religion greatly supports the state).

Something for the anglicans since the king will be the head of religion.

20% at 100% mysticism for Shia too, with the in universe reason being the feudal theocracy government of Persia as template for how it will work.

I think ibadi should get something like that for gameplay reasons too, but I don't know any "historical" reason to allow that.

Edit: also cooptic, for each holy site recovered a reduction on the number of required countries. 4 or 5% each.

 

[Sarashi]

Since most of them are religions that in a lot of places were profoundly minority ones, it would also make sense that a defender of faith would get more authority compared with the greater and more in control ones.

 

[Ghalandar]

Hi this is good
but you should work on War Mechanics, something like total war mod or something like this
you didn't work on The war to capture the forts yet

The mechanics of war in this game are still on luck
If we could be effective in war tactics
The game gets great

 

[grommile]

I agree. Rebellions and civil wars need a rework, and have needed it for a while now.

Your proposal sounds to me like you have committed one of the standard errors of this forum: thinking that the reason the game is too easy for the human is that the game is too easy.

Really, the reason the game is too easy for the human is that the computer players are incompetent at both country management and military manoeuvre, and until that is fixed, proposals like yours would be utterly catastrophic for the game's entertainment value.

 

[raikaria]

It feels like rebels don't really have any impact on your nation, currently.

You do need to take into account that manpower is going to be even more valuable in the next patch. Merc rework; as well as things such as Professionalism buffs [Remember this is decreased with Mercs or pressing the manpower button!] to have up to 25% reduced damage taken.

Rebellions cost manpower to put down. Rebels inherit your army quality; not your Morale. They absolutely can cause casualties.

 

[Kalmoire]

How about making the Defender of Faith count up to the provinces of your faith in same-faith countries, which are neighbouring a country of a different religion?
It would reward having large borders of religion to protect, while not rewarding for having an untouchable (by the heathens) land a long distance away from outside threat.

 

[LazyTitan0514]

If you are the only nation in a religion do you keep the benefits of tier one or is the mechanic not valid anymore

Tier 1 - 1 to 4 Countries

 

[LazyTitan0514]

How about making the Defender of Faith count up to the provinces of your faith in same-faith countries, which are neighbouring a country of a different religion?
It would reward having large borders of religion to protect, while not rewarding for having an untouchable (by the heathens) land a long distance away from outside threat.

I agree it should be counted on provinces rather than countries so it doesn’t punish a defender of the faith that has conquered all the countries of his faith. It also would encourage the defender to convert provinces rather than just enforcing religion which usually doesn’t work considering AI usually loses to heretic rebels if you just enforce religion especially on a medium to large nation.