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EUIV - Development Diary - 11th of February 2020

Hello! So today I will be talking about two smaller sized features coming with the expansion that will be accompanying the 1.30 Patch.

As part of our improvements to the Catholic faith, which we will revisit in a later dev diary, we want to give the player a carrot for keeping their brethren alive. So with that in mind for all religions that can use Defenders of the Faith mechanic, they are getting a bit of an uplift to emphasise that you defend a faith, not only something you claim to be.

upload_2020-2-11_9-23-6.png


So what we’ve done is that we gave the Defender of the Faith 5 tiers that are dependent upon how many nations are following that faith. The more you are defending the more your title as the faith’s defender has as worth to the people and your neighbours. At the highest tier the entire faith gets a bonus together.

upload_2020-2-11_9-22-51.png

The 5 Tiers available to the Defender of the Faith.

Tier 1 - 1 to 4 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
Tier 2 - 5 to 9 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
Tier 3 - 10 to 19 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
Tier 4 - 20 to 49 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
  • +20% Manpower in True Faith Provinces
Tier 5 - 50+ Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
  • +20% Manpower in True Faith Provinces
  • -20% Missionary Maintenance Cost on all members of that Faith, including DotF.
Besides the mechanical changes we’ve also given the Defender of the Faith more flavour by giving the feature a bunch of unique events and content that can appear for whoever that claims the title.

The second feature of today is a little thing that just lets you get on with your business a bit faster by not having to sit and wait for rebels to pop so you can deal with them immediately.

upload_2020-2-11_9-22-20.png


It requires the faction to have already reached a progression of 50% before this option can be picked and when done it will cause those rebels to appear 50% stronger than they would have usually. You can also not use this feature at war so you can not rebel bomb your opponents with it.

Next Development Diary coming next week will be covering one feature that is part of the expansion but also free quality of life features. The focus of the features will be to make management of your empire easier and more bearable.
 
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Groogy said:
I like this a lot, what I and @Johan want though is that you don't benefit as much if you own literally everything. That it is better for you if there are other nations to defend.
Click to expand...

Then how about combined development from all the countries getting defended? I guess this would also include vassals.
 
I was thinking about DOFT and discussion about gaining strenght based on number of Followers / strenght of followers and:
What if we split bonuses to 2 parts.

One half based on number of folowers
Second half based on dev/number of provincies following the religion - land of your religion heretic/heaten armies.

ALSO
What about that when you defend your faith ou get an option to become DOFT. For example:

In war a nation takes 5+ provinces of their faith from heathens/heretics and thus "defended the faith".
So it gets an event where they can

1. become defender of faith with "discount" and hurting opinion with current DOFT and gaining opinion with others
2. chose to not become defender of faith and gaining opinion with DOFT.

or by other forms (enforcing peace in war where your religion country is loosing against heathen/heretic) ect.
 
Groogy said:
I like this a lot, what I and @Johan want though is that you don't benefit as much if you own literally everything. That it is better for you if there are other nations to defend.
Click to expand...

Split the difference? Maybe count the provinces in OTHER countries (perhaps with some scaling factor of dimishing returns), but count your own, like how your'e doing now (one presumably)?
 
Please change number of coutries to number of provinces or size of development, because it shouldnt matter under whom the catholics reside. Why should it be better for the faith if there is x amount of catholics under one tag or under several?
 
I think DotF by country numbers is actually better because it provides you two main options to balance with: conquer and get bigger or not conquer (same faith) and get more DotF bonus. A suggestion on using old HRE mechanics is not bad either: the longer you hold the title the better it scales because heathens are scared of you and your brethrens are protected.
Two decisions i want here about DotF: a decision to revoke DotF (costing religious mana such as papal influence or patriarch authority as well as prestige and other stuffs) and a decision to make female eligible to be DotF

I don't think DotF should be available for every religion:
 
Praiokles said:
Please change number of coutries to number of provinces or size of development, because it shouldnt matter under whom the catholics reside. Why should it be better for the faith if there is x amount of catholics under one tag or under several?
Click to expand...
So you are actually showing that you are defending the faith itself not just defending your own country and claiming it's for the faith.
 
Mindel said:
Is counting the number of countries the right way to measure success for defender of the faith? This seems to punish defenders if large numbers of small countries start eating each other and consolidate into larger powers. But this phenomenon doesn't seem to have much to do with religion, really.

Maybe a better way to measure would be total development or number of provinces in that faith.



Addendum

Here is an idea: how about measuring defenders of the faith by actual job performance? That is, making defenders earn credit by actually defending fellow nations from infidels.

Every new defender starts at level 1, and earns points each time it answers a defender call to arms and successfully defends. It loses some credit if the war is lost, and it loses a lot if it either declines the call or renders "unsatisfactory condottieri performance". When the defender reaches a certain number of points, it gets promoted (or demoted).

How much each war is worth depends on how big the infidel opponents are. If you keep fighting off Ottomans on behalf of others, you deserve a prize for it.
Click to expand...

that is a great idea, make it works like Favors, and would works much better than how it works now or even this change, the benefits of DotF would come only if you actually defend the faith. maybe even add some option? like, a CB on a country to make it release countries of your religion? Or support (appropriate) religious rebels?
 
Make Victoria 3 said:
You still could end up waiting for a year or more if you are unlucky and they just wont spawn. And if they are very weak anyway the 50% wont matter anyway. And large ones with 20% spawn chance wont take too long to spawn.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but in some case, you might not be in a hurry to do so at 50%, and see that the 150% size rebel stack be too big to deal with right now. A sort of "Let the situation turn sour more and only nudge the fall in a more controlled way"
 
Mindel said:
Here is an idea: how about measuring defenders of the faith by actual job performance? That is, making defenders earn credit by actually defending fellow nations from infidels.

Every new defender starts at level 1, and earns points each time it answers a defender call to arms and successfully defends. It loses some credit if the war is lost, and it loses a lot if it either declines the call or renders "unsatisfactory condottieri performance". When the defender reaches a certain number of points, it gets promoted (or demoted).

How much each war is worth depends on how big the infidel opponents are. If you keep fighting off Ottomans on behalf of others, you deserve a prize for it.
Click to expand...
I like this a lot. First tier is just claiming you're the defender of the faith. As you prove your metal, and defends successfully your brethren, you get additional bonuses as you become the DotF not just in name, but are recognised as such.

This would also introduce a new type of choice when faced with a call to arms. "I don't want to fight this war, but if I do, I'll get those nice bonuses. Also, I'll lose the other bonuses I got from fighting those other wars. Decisions, decisions....", instead of rejecting the call to arms and paying the money to get it back as if nothing happened.
This for me would better represent the "burden" of being the DotF, while also rewarding players fighting wars not just for conquest. So win-win I'd say.
 
Groogy said:
Yes, it never was really a penalty that deterred people from spending that 500 ducats if they could. Instead we're trying to put emphasis on the burden of being a Defender of the Faith :)


Yepp
Click to expand...

Just wondering though, why can't a country that takes Religious Ideas claim itself to be the Defender of the Faith for say, Hinduism?
 
Since you prevent it in peace times, will there be something to prevent you from throwing armies on armies that are marching through your land on Military Access agreements? Something like, can't provoke if an army is in or adjacent to the province they'd revolt in.

Or, what I'd actually prefer, just stop having non-allied armies fighting rebels of a country they are neutral towards to.
 
Ixalmaris said:
While I can see why provoke rebels was added it is still incredibly gamey and makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

I disagree, it's a technique used today. A lot of protests have undercover police presences, who often start a fight to give the uniformed officers a chance to shut the whole thing down before it gets out of hand with genuine violence. (Example the G20 protests in London, there's a Guardian article about them but I can't post the link as I've not been an active member on the forums for long enough)

In a way think of it like a bomb. You can either let it go off at a time that's out of your control, or you perform a controlled demolition by getting it to detonate early under circumstances you control.
 
We have seen new provinces for most of Europe, with new mission trees for a large amount of nations (Burgundy, France, Austria, Prussia, etc.). Are there any plans for either extra provices or larger mission trees for Scandinavian nations?
 
DominusNovus said:
So we just pop them right before declaring war.
Click to expand...

That's a fair bit more costly though, and especially with the new estates and how they relate to land and rebels it is not such a no-brainer. But as a last stand to try and survive? Yeah probably. Will cover this more in a later dev diary.
 
I agree that counting countries isn't the right way to set up the bonuses after. It's ahistorical, neglects religion's meaning mid- to lategame and seems pretty exploitable.
But I also see the balancing argument. So maybe you could count in the average developement of all provinces following that religion and give maluses from higher tech levels, AE, diplomatic reputation, possible overextension, low prestige and low legitimacy?
 
Damn, this really weakens the mechanic for Anglicans since spreading religion is highly unlikely

But I can understand that a single Anglican nation adopting Defender of the Faith just for the bonuses is probably one reason why you're making this change :p
 
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