• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 28th of February 2023 - Great Britain

Greetings! A new week, a new Dev Diary, and this time it is about our final big country of the DLC, England, and its follow-up nation of Great Britain. Similar to Russia, England and Great Britain received their content update with 1.25 which is now almost 5 years old. While the British mission tree was one of the most extensive in its time, it has become quite outdated and was in dire need of receiving an update in order to keep England on the same level as the other great powers which are seeing a liftover with 1.35.

So, let’s get started!
british_missions.png

These are all the missions you have available as England and as Great Britain. These missions are available to everyone who forms GB.

The mission tree is split into several themes:
- The internal affairs and issues of England, which were the War of the Roses, the English Reformation, and of course the English Civil War
- The classic conquest of the British Isles
- Trade Dominance in Europe
- Colonizing the New World
- The conquest of India
- Internal development

Starting with the classic missions, the British Isles conquest missions are what their name suggests: unifying the British Isles under your banner. The highlight of these missions is the ability to unlock the “Act of Union” which is a unique parliament issue to form Great Britain - more on it later. Also a ,QoL addition has been added to these conquest missions: if you conquer Scotland you can get the following event if Norway did not sell Orkney to Scotland yet.
flavor_gbr.2.png

The AI is very likely to accept as long as they don’t have any negative opinion of you.

The missions regarding colonizing the New World are also quite self-explanatory. However, these missions do have some unique rewards which make colonization a little bit more interesting. The mission “Found the Royal Navy” grants you +33% Colonial Range and the ability to recruit explorers and conquistadors for 25 years. It also unlocks a parliament issue that gives you the same modifiers once the mission reward runs out.

“Discover the Americas” unlocks another Parliament issue with a rather experimental and unique effect:
colonial_venture.png


As long this modifier is active and you fully colonize a colony you get the following event:
colonial_venture_event.png

You get a selection of trade goods to choose from. The province will then start producing the selected trade goods. The first option keeps the current trade good if you don’t want to select any new production.

Keep in mind that the trade goods you can choose from have the same requirements as they would normally have when you colonize a province. In other words: you cannot select every province in North America to be a gold province out of nowhere.

Speaking of gold: selecting a certain trade good to be produced has a price that is calculated by the following formula: (1 + <the times you selected the trade good>) * 5 * <base cost of trade good without any modifications from events>.

In this example, we decide to create our own Fish & Chips monopoly, so we choose fish for every colonized province:
colonial_venture_event_2.png


Some trade goods are inherently more valuable than others. If a trade good has a higher base cost than 2.5 then it will also have an Administrative cost in order to be produced:
colonial_venture_gems.png

Note: The admin cost will be rounded down to 7.

Again, the formula for this is also rather simple: (<base trade good price> - 2.5) * 25 * <the times you selected the trade good>.

Now of course I have to address the elephant in the room: Gold. In order to avoid a world where a Great Britain player would put a gold province in every single eligible province of the New World, I decided to give Gold an “estimated value” of 10 Ducats base cost. This is reflected in the price you have to pay for a Gold province in the new world:
colonial_venture_event_gold.png

The only limit for how many gold provinces you want in the end is not any hard block but your tolerance for pain in paying for the establishment of another gold province.

Of course there is a decision which toggles this off if you are not interested in micromanaging every single colony you create:
colonial_venture_toggle.png

The missions “Settle in America” and “Colonize the Caribbean” modify your colonial capabilities even further with more unlocked parliament actions:
taxation_vs_representation.png

gold_act.png

Note: You have access to a sugar and spice version of this Parliament Action in the mission tree.

Finally, the mission “Dominate the New World” gives a permanent modifier which also benefits your colonial subjects too.
new_world_domination.png

Note: The Trade Efficiency might look weird considering that you siphon the trade from the New World, but Tariffs in their current iteration are calculated from the production income + trade income. As such, this bonus is an indirect bonus to how much tariff you receive from your colonies.

Of course a British mission tree would not be complete without a trip to India. The mission “East India Company” gives you an early choice of how you want to manage your territory in India.
east_india_company_event.png
The first option will release a unique subject in the form of the East India Company and it gives all permanent claims you get in India to your subject. The second option lets you keep the claims, but you won’t have access to your new subject, while the third option is for the purpose of role-playing where you can play as the company yourself, which might be an interesting campaign for some people.

The East India Company starts with a unique version of the Merchant Republic:
trade_company_reform.png

And of course it has its own set of ideas:
Code:
EIC_ideas = {
    start = {
        global_prov_trade_power_modifier = 0.2
        tolerance_heathen = 3
    }

    bonus = {
        global_trade_power = 0.15
    }
   
    trigger = {
        tag = EIC
    }
    free = yes        #will be added at load.

    eic_governors_general = {
        global_unrest = -1
        governing_capacity_modifier = 0.1
    }
    eic_indian_trade = {
        global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.15
    }
    eic_chartered_merchants = {
        merchants = 1
        placed_merchant_power = 10
    }
    eic_presidency_armies = {
        global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
        global_sailors_modifier = 0.2
    }
    eic_intercontinental_trade = {
        trade_steering = 0.25
        trade_range_modifier = 0.1
    }
    eic_colonial_monopoly = {
        trade_efficiency = 0.1
    }
    eic_colonial_exploitation = {
        trade_company_investment_cost = -0.1
        build_cost = -0.1
    }
}

This trade company subject has some special properties which aim to make it competitive to the trade companies we already know and love. A trade company behaves in many ways like a colony, which means it is able to declare its own wars, it will pay tariffs to its overlord and you can use the “Modify Subject Relationship” on them (modifications for Self-Governing Colonies are applied here). However, when an external nation attacks your Trade Company you are called into war. There are also some additional subject interactions which are not available to normal colonies such as “Siphon Income” and “Fortify Subject” (in the past it was March, but it has been renamed now).

“Masters of India”, which requires you to own or have a subject own 200 provinces in India, gives an additional bonus to your trade company subject:
masters_of_india.png

These were the colonial missions. Now we move on to the internal missions.

The missions of the “War of the Roses” path are all about your religious internal affairs. Depending on what is your stance towards the clergy, you unlock one of the two government reforms for the 4th tier:
religious_reforms.png
The missions “Strengthen the Kingdom” and “Acts of the Parliament” play heavily into the conflict between the monarch and the parliament during the Age of Absolutism, which eventually led to the English Civil War.

Completing both missions give you access to both mutually exclusive government reforms:
more_reforms.png

Speaking of, in order to properly represent the struggle between crown and constitution, you will eventually receive the following event as you enter the Age of Absolutism:
strife_king_and_parliament.png

absolute_power.png

Note: Background UI is still work in progress. The Monarchists will start the civil war when it reaches -100, not 100. Not shown in the image: if the value drops below 0 the modifiers change to: +4 Global Unrest, -10 Years of Nationalism, -10% Idea Cost and -1 Yearly Absolutism.

Resetting Debates, letting debates fail and revoking parliament seats increase your Absolute Power while giving away seats and letting debates win decrease Absolute Power. There are two ways of handling the mechanic altogether: you either juggle with the Absolute Power until the Age of Revolution starts or you try to reach either direction as fast as possible in order to trigger the following event:
escalation_event.png


If this event fires then the conditions to fire the English Civil War change to the following:
new_disaster_conditions.png

The disaster itself has seen little change per se. Pretender rebels on the parliament side have been replaced with a new, Parliamentarian rebel type which are basically Pretenders, but republican versions of them. The big change for the disaster is the end reward when you go through them.

If you side with the Royalists and end the Civil War without breaking to rebels you get the following reform:
absolute_britain.png

Letting the Parliamentarian win and choosing to become a republic will unlock the following reform:
parliamentarian_republic.png

And finally, if you let the Parliamentarians win, but decide to become a monarchy after Cromwell’s death:
british_monarchy.png
If you complete the mission “The Three Kingdom Wars” (which really should have been called “Wars of the Three Kingdoms”, but there was no space for it) by going through the hassle of the English Civil War, you unlock the following reward:
english_civil_war_mission_reward.png
These parliament issues are unlocked as you also unlock your national ideas. You have up to three issues which negate one of your national ideas in order to introduce a new strength.
ideas_altering_issues.png
These issues are, however, limited to three national idea groups in total though - they do not cover you if you form a nation which would not be typical in your England run like, let’s say France or Spain.

Of course you can toggle them off with a decision in order to have the space of your parliament issues not be occupied with them anymore, and you can revoke all of the adjustments - though at a heavy cost:
toggle_off.png

Note: Forming a different country will automatically revoke these modifiers. I am also considering making this cost a lot less severe though in order to promote flexibility. Maybe 75 ADM cost per adjusted idea is more manageable.

While these were the internal disasters and issues, there is more to the mission tree. The mission “Issue the Royal Warrant” goes more into the economical direction of your country. While the mission itself can be completed rather early, its big reward is more something you will unlock later on as you get the following reform unlocked for tier 8:
royal_charters.png

trade_protectorate.png

Note: Numbers are not final, as usual.

As it is somewhat of a running theme with 1.35, another mechanic of the old EU4 has returned once again, though this time it is a little bit different. Trade Protectorates are a voluntary relationship between you and the target country, and some AIs might even request to become such a subject in order to be protected from foreign forces. The Trade Protectorate and the overlord are free to annul the treaty, though they have to pay with 1 Stability unless the liberty desire is 100.

Only countries whose capitals are within your trade range are eligible to become your protectorates.

I should also mention that these Protectorates are not Great Britain only as any country which “Confirms Thalassocracy” unlocks the following government reform, which is part of the free update:
thalassocracy.png

The missions following “A House Divided” (which is more a reference to how the “House of the Parliament” is split into the House of Common and the House of Lords) are more internally related missions. Highlights here are “Expand the Royal Navy” which unlocks the special unit of your country:
expand_royal_navy.png

man_of_war.png

Note: The color should be actually green as a reduced Engagement Width means more ships are in combat at the same time.
You have 20% of your Naval Force Limit available for constructing Man of War.

The mission “The Royal Marines” makes your marine units to be the “special land unit” of your country as it gives -10% Shock Damage Received and +5% Discipline while “The Redcoats” is a flat +10% Infantry Combat Ability until the end of the game.

Now that was the British Mission Tree. As you have seen, it is relying heavily on colonization and overseas ambitions. But not everyone might enjoy this kind of playstyle. Because of that there is a second path of the mission tree which is unlocked as soon as the Hundred Years’ War goes into its final phase. The mission “The Hundred Years’ War” fires an event which gives you the choice to play England in a new way which focuses a lot more on the continent:
angevin_path.png

This will of course update your mission tree accordingly:
angevin_missions.png

All of the colonial missions are replaced with missions which nudge you into conquering vast territories of Europe. Of course, your first target is France and securing the personal union over it. In order to complete the mission “Shatter French Nobility” you will have to enact a unique Parliament Action which might cause pain in the short run, but ensures France’s loyalty to the English throne:
curtailed_nobles.png

I mentioned earlier about the Acts of Union. For players, the Acts of Union will be an actual parliament issue which is available to you when you complete this mission “Unify the Isles” and have reached Administrative Technology 10.
acts_of_union_britain.png

gb.png

The AI will keep its decision though.

For the Angevin path we have something similar. The mission “The Angevin Kingdom” unlocks the English-French Acts of Union parliament issue which allows you to form a new tag:
acts_of_union_issue.png

angevin_kingdom.png

Note: Historically speaking, it would make more sense to have it as a name change as the “Angevin Empire” was mostly a name for the possessions of the Plantagenet dynasty and not a real political entity per se. For the sake of gameplay, however, I decided to make a new tag for it with unique ideas, colors and, most importantly, the flag.

angevin_flag.png
You might have noticed that the Angevin flag is already included in the already used English flag. We are aware that it can feel kinda weird when you form the Angevin Kingdom and your flag, which was previously a combination of the Angevin and the French flag, just returns to being the Angevin one.
Because of that we request your opinion on that matter, and want to know what you guys prefer:
  1. Keep the way it is presented here (same flag for England, three lions for the Angevin Kingdom).
  2. Give the Angevin Kingdom the current English flag and give England the three lions as starting flag.
  3. Give the Angevin Kingdom the current English flag and give England the St. George cross as flag.
  4. Other ideas / suggestions.
With that being said, let's take a look at the ideas:
Code:
AVE_ideas = {
    start = {
        global_manpower_modifier = 0.2
        improve_relation_modifier = 0.3
    }

    bonus = {
        years_of_nationalism = -5
    }
   
    trigger = {
        tag = AVE
    }
    free = yes        #will be added at load.

    angevin_decentralized_rule = {
        core_creation = -0.2
    }
    english_common_law = {
        global_tax_modifier = 0.15
        num_of_parliament_issues = 1
    }
    lessons_of_the_anglo_french_wars = {
        discipline = 0.05
    }
    the_many_thrones = {
        heir_chance = 0.5
        years_to_integrate_personal_union = -10
    }
    reformed_angevin_infantry = {
        infantry_power = 0.1
    }
    seneschal_of_france = {
        governing_capacity_modifier = 0.15
    }
    rule_of_the_plantagenet = {
        legitimacy = 1
        devotion = 1
        horde_unity = 1
        republican_tradition = 0.3
        meritocracy = 1
    }
}

Note: England and Great Britain too received a +1 Number of possible Parliament Issues. The Horde Unity and Meritocracy (as well as Devotion / Legitimacy / Republican Tradition) have been added to all ideas which give one of the 5 government measurements in order to promote more variety in campaigns where you can switch your governments without feeling at a disadvantage because of it.

From here on out your path is set to conquer Iberia and Italy, as well as pushing into the Lowlands and the HRE. Each of these regions unlocks a “Crown of <Region>” Parliament issue which lets you decide how to properly deal with your newly conquered territory:
the_three_crowns.png

îberian_crown.png

italian_crown.png

imperial_diet.png

Note: There will be a tooltip saying that you unlock HRE related parliament issues.

These issues will affect the HRE as a whole and not just your country.

Another highlight would be the ability to adapt the British culture group into the French culture group with the mission “The Angevin Culture”:
anglois.png


A final highlight would be “Claim the Empire Title” which gives your country a name fitting to your situation.
empire_name.png

republican_name.png

theocratic_name.png

And if you, somehow, manage to fall from grace…
sadge.png

That was it for mission tree content. However, there is still a lot more to talk about. As you might have noticed, the parliament plays a large role in the content. As such, it was only natural to improve the parliament mechanics in general and then to add something special to the parliament of England / GB / Angevin to make it stand out from the other parliaments.

So, let us take a look at the general improvements for the parliaments. First thing first, parliaments have now the ability to reset a debate.
reset.png
You can reset a debate only every 20 years and it brings some penalties with it. Still, it can be a nice QoL addition when you accidentally select the wrong debate.

Secondly, parliament bribes will no longer spawn for an issue which would give this resource as an effect when the issue gets passed. Example: the parliament issue “The Draft” which gives manpower scaled to the seats will never have any parliament bribe which requests you to pay with manpower.

Thirdly, the prices of bribes have been revisited and have been tuned down to a manageable number.

Fourthly, parliaments of a size of 40 seats unlock new bribes which have “National” in their name. These bribes are more expensive than their local version, but have the bundled effect to automatically flip all seats with this kind of bribe in favor of the bribe. This way parliaments of big nations with many seats are not as annoying anymore as they were in the past.
national_bribes.png
Finally, manually placing a parliament seat no longer reduces absolutism. Getting seats assigned automatically, on the other hand, does cost absolutism.

All of these parliament updates are available if you have Common Sense (the original DLC which unlocks Parliaments) or the new DLC (which unlocks Parliaments too in case you don’t have Common Sense).

Now back to England / GB which have a bit more refined version of their parliament. Most issues they have access to now scale in their effect power with the influence of one of their estates:
influence_scaling.png

Note: I consider to push this all one level up, so that the 100% of the normal effect would be achieved between 20% and 40% already.

This has not an effect on the modifiers from the issues themselves though, only on the instant effects, so keep this in mind.

Bribes, on the other hand, scale with the loyalty of the estate:
loyalty_scaling.png
If an estate is disloyal, the cost of the bribe increases by 100%. However, if the estate is loyal then the bribe gets reduced by 50%. This stacks with the government mechanic of halved parliament issue costs, so it is possible that a single bribe might be as cheap as 1 Monarch Power.

Now with that all being said, let’s end this dev diary with the additional events England / GB / Angevin receives:
flavor_gbr.3.png

flavor_gbr.4.png

flavor_gbr.5.png

flavor_gbr.6.png

flavor_gbr.9.png

flavor_gbr.7.png

Note: This event is the starting point of 8 events in total which depict the different ways of how the English monarchs handled the reformation. Each option leads to different events. The AI always picks the one option which fits their ruler’s religion - even if it is against their country’s religion.

flavor_gbr.8.png

flavor_gbr.10.png

Note: the conditions for this event to happen are similar to the ones for its Reformed equivalent.
flavor_gbr.11.png


chapel_ENG_DD.png

And that was it for this week. Next week @Pavía will present content for the minor Great Powers, unique government reforms and additional estate privileges.

Until then I wish you all a nice week!
 
  • 116Like
  • 44Love
  • 18
  • 9
  • 3
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
You are assuming that had England regained the union with France during the EU time period that they would not also have pursued a colonial policy? This seems highly unlikely. Also I do not remember France successfully invading England/GB during the EUIV time period yet they have mission to do this. These are for more ahistorical than England's missions to conquer France.
Even if England and France became one country, the colonial policy would still be carried out.
However, having a huge territory on the European continent, England would not be able to become Great Britain, which is very much focused on navy and trade. This is because the country has a huge land army and the navy cannot play a leading role in the fight against European rivals.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I've rendered a couple of proposals for option 4 on flagwaver:


Vicky 2 mod Dual Monarchy proposal



Blue version of England's coat of arms



Geoffrey Plantagenet's CoA.


My Guernsey Norman cross-inspired Angevin banner proposals:
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm concerned about all the colonial buffs England/GB have especially considering (historically) most of their colonization occurred much later in the game time (starting around 1600 in earnest). But these buffs seem like they may fire much earlier, potentially giving England/GB a huge boost to colonial ability in the 1400s like Portugal and Spain.

It's well known that colonization happens way to quickly and easily as-is. I understand this will not be updated in this particular patch, but shouldn't we try to make updates that would help the current issues instead of making them worse?

All these buffs do is add 1 more country to the scramble for America that currently happens around 1500 (crazy early for so many reasons). We need to slow down all colonial powers, not subjectively speed up "historically colonial" powers.

At this rate, the Americas/n coasts will all be full by 1500, even though historically the Swedes were landing in "uncolonized" parts of New Jersey in the 1670s.
 
  • 10
Reactions:
I'm concerned about all the colonial buffs England/GB have especially considering (historically) most of their colonization occurred much later in the game time (starting around 1600 in earnest). But these buffs seem like they may fire much earlier, potentially giving England/GB a huge boost to colonial ability in the 1400s like Portugal and Spain.

It's well known that colonization happens way to quickly and easily as-is. I understand this will not be updated in this particular patch, but shouldn't we try to make updates that would help the current issues instead of making them worse?

All these buffs do is add 1 more country to the scramble for America that currently happens around 1500 (crazy early for so many reasons). We need to slow down all colonial powers, not subjectively speed up "historically colonial" powers.

At this rate, the Americas/n coasts will all be full by 1500, even though historically the Swedes were landing in "uncolonized" parts of New Jersey in the 1670s.
As the whole colonization race fires too soon, until the day that comes that fixes it, kludgy early-firing missions will have to do.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Just some ideas around the New flags for England and the Angevin Kingdom.

England to GB Path

England keep its current flag at start date 1444.

A NEW EVENT

Conditions

Event “Destiny of England” has fired and have picked ‘The continent is no longer of our interest.”
The mission “Develop British Identity” or “War of the Roses” (Which ever comes first) has been completed.

Event

If “War of the Roses” is the trigger, Event “‘Dynasty name’ will form its own path.”
If “Develop British Identity” is the trigger, Event “England will form its own path.”

Effects

Changes Flag to Three Lions
Maybe a nobility privilege or modifier.


INHERIT SCOTLAND

Parliament Issue “Acts of Union” is Passed

Inherit Scotland and from Great Britain

Flag Changes to GB Flag


England to Angevin Kingdom

England keep its current flag at start date 1444.

INHERIT France

Parliament Issue “Acts of Union” is Passed

Inherit France and from Angevin Kingdom

Flag Changes to Angevin Flag

Options

I’ve tried to think about this from the perspective of a ruler that has just united the realms of England and France.

Using Impalement / Quartering to merge the coat of arms of England and France.

The current English flag comes from The Plantagenets claiming the French throne. Quartering the Fleur-de-lis and the three lions together. If the Plantagenets or their successors were to retake the French throne and form a single kingdom the merge could go different ways.


- First option, the flag doesn’t change since an impalement/quartering of the Fleur-de-lis and the three lions is already there.

- Second option, Impalement of the current English flag along with the Fleur-de-lis. With the English flag in the dexter position (left, when facing) and the Fleur-de-lis in the sinister position (right, when facing). The dexter position is considered the side of greater honour.

- Third option, simplification of the current English flag. With the Fleur-de-lis in the dexter position (left, when facing) and the three lions in the sinister position (right, when facing). Appealing to the French by putting the fleur-de-lis in the position of greater honour.

- Fourth option, simplification of the current English flag. With the three lions in the dexter position (left, when facing) and the fleur-de-lis in the sinister position (right, when facing). Saying to the French we are of high honour as we have united our realms.

I've made the flags, they are posted here -
My opinion is either keep the flag as it is through forming the Angevin Kingdom or option 4. Simplifying, with three lions on the left and fleur-de-lis on the right.
Anyway that is my take.
Have you considered Henry VI arms?
 
This looks like some fantastic work, but I am very disappointed at forcing us to choose a European focus as Angevine or a colonial focus as Great Britain. The fun of England for me has always been doing BOTH. I would urge Paradox to merge the mission trees, with much smaller branches for becoming French culture or staying British culture. If there are branches, they should add flavor based on whether you want to feel more French or more British.

This is really subtracting fun. Either we have to lose our colonial focus as Angevine, basically turning into France, or we have to lose our European focus and have a boring colonial game as Great Britain. In the current version of the game, we can have both.

Great Britain was my favorite country. But as it is, this ahistorical Angevine looks so strong that I will never be able to justify forming the historical Great Britain again.
 
  • 5
  • 4Like
Reactions:
As much as I love new formables, and it is nice to have the Angevins, I'm disappointed that you're forced to choose between continental and colonial missions. Feels like a downgrade from the current missions which encourage you to do both.

Also, I find it outrageous that there's a mission to get an early university in Copenhagen, but no early university for Oxford and Cambridge!
 
  • 4
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
As much as I love new formables, and it is nice to have the Angevins, I'm disappointed that you're forced to choose between continental and colonial missions. Feels like a downgrade from the current missions which encourage you to do both.
Because most of the time as Angevin kingdom you will focus on European conquest untill mid-late game when you will start colonising, but by then most of the stuff will be colonized by Spain and Porugal (unless you conquered them but then you get possibility to make Spain a PU so they will colonize for you).
Also it wouldn't be strange if Paradox did that to avoid making England too OP compared to any other nation
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I'm concerned about all the colonial buffs England/GB have especially considering (historically) most of their colonization occurred much later in the game time (starting around 1600 in earnest). But these buffs seem like they may fire much earlier, potentially giving England/GB a huge boost to colonial ability in the 1400s like Portugal and Spain.

It's well known that colonization happens way to quickly and easily as-is. I understand this will not be updated in this particular patch, but shouldn't we try to make updates that would help the current issues instead of making them worse?

All these buffs do is add 1 more country to the scramble for America that currently happens around 1500 (crazy early for so many reasons). We need to slow down all colonial powers, not subjectively speed up "historically colonial" powers.

At this rate, the Americas/n coasts will all be full by 1500, even though historically the Swedes were landing in "uncolonized" parts of New Jersey in the 1670s.
Agree.
Colonization is way too fast

It would be super easy and effortless to reduce Settler growth from Technology, something like this
Tech 1 +10 -> +10
Tech 3 +25 -> 20
Tech 10 +35 -> 30
Tech 15 +50 -> 40
Tech 23 +75 -> 50
Tech 26 +100 -> 60
Tech 32 +150 -> 70

Also, although this would require some more extensive rework of colonization mechanics, the settler growth should be dependent on total development of core provinces of your primary culture (since unless expelling minorities, you are supposedly colonizing with primary culture settlers) it is absurd that a Portugal who has been reduced to the island of Azores would ever be able to out-colonize a unified France.

Edit: i misunderstood the wiki numbers.
 
Last edited:
  • 7Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Agree.
Colonization is way too fast

It would be super easy and effortless to reduce Settler growth from Technology.
It currently works like this:
Tech 1 +10
Tech 3 +25
Tech 10 +35
Tech 15 +50
Tech 23 +75
Tech 26 +100
Tech 32 +150

But this is cumulative, meaning that in practical terms, settler growth is the following:
Tech 1 +10
Tech 3 +35
Tech 10 +70
Tech 15 +120
Tech 23 +195
Tech 26 +295
Tech 32 +445
I think you're misunderstanding the wiki here, the original +10 to +150 is already cumulative, you definitely don't gain +120 settlers a year at tech 15 for example, let alone 445 at tech 32
 
  • 4
Reactions:
I think you're misunderstanding the wiki here, the original +10 to +150 is already cumulative, you definitely don't gain +120 settlers a year at tech 15 for example, let alone 445 at tech 32
Oh makes more sense tbh.
445 did seem insanely fast to me, but since Colonization seems to end by 1650, i never actually experienced how fast the later techs actually are.

The argument stands that it should be lower tho.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
Agree.
Colonization is way too fast

It would be super easy and effortless to reduce Settler growth from Technology, something like this
Tech 1 +10 -> +10
Tech 3 +25 -> 20
Tech 10 +35 -> 30
Tech 15 +50 -> 40
Tech 23 +75 -> 50
Tech 26 +100 -> 60
Tech 32 +150 -> 70

Also, although this would require some more extensive rework of colonization mechanics, the settler growth should be dependent on total development of core provinces of your primary culture (since unless expelling minorities, you are supposedly colonizing with primary culture settlers) it is absurd that a Portugal who has been reduced to the island of Azores would ever be able to out-colonize a unified France.

Edit: i misunderstood the wiki numbers.

It's not just settler growth, though, is it? It's also conquering native land, which allows you to get Colonial Nations up quickly (which then produce more colonists).

I'm also tired of seeing AI Portugal taking over the Caribbean in just about every game, instead of going for Brazil and also working its way down the African coast to get to India and the Spice Islands. Also France always seems to colonise in Columbia instead of Canada. I wouldn't mind if Portugal/France did this in just some of my games, but it seems they do this in almost all of them.
 
  • 10
Reactions:
It's not just settler growth, though, is it? It's also conquering native land, which allows you to get Colonial Nations up quickly (which then produce more colonists).

I'm also tired of seeing AI Portugal taking over the Caribbean in just about every game, instead of going for Brazil and also working its way down the African coast to get to India and the Spice Islands. Also France always seems to colonise in Columbia instead of Canada. I wouldn't mind if Portugal/France did this in just some of my games, but it seems they do this in almost all of them.
Next DD should shine some light upon it. Time will tell.
 
Hmm, yes you're right, I forgot this missions, but then I if think it, Napoleon tried to invade england with the fleet that have been sink at trafalgar, so failed attempt, just like the union the English tried to do but failed, and they also, can fulfill it, so.

And yes I say, and I will repeat England wouldn't have bothered to colonize, if they had the union. And now even if they do, what would've happens imo ? The same things happened to France, the people stay in the continent and aren't interested in moving to the colonies.


Now, you even got some missions to colonize with the angevin path, so I don't really understand the problem here.
The problem is that if you go the angevin route you are no longer playing as England or GB. You will essentially be playing as a new nation. Perhaps some people will be agnostic to the name of the country or the flag and colour they are playing under, but many are not. If you had the option to go down the continental path and still play as England/GB rather than change to Angevin, then I would be less concerned. However, as things stand you can only play as England/GB if you accept a mission tree focused only on colonies and not the continent.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Even if England and France became one country, the colonial policy would still be carried out.
However, having a huge territory on the European continent, England would not be able to become Great Britain, which is very much focused on navy and trade. This is because the country has a huge land army and the navy cannot play a leading role in the fight against European rivals.
Would it have been a different GB that emerged if England has managed to hold on to the French crown, no doubt. But to assume that Britain would not still have had a powerful navy and been a leading trade power is step too far. Given that the country would have had possessions that were only linked by water and most likely rivals in Spain and the Netherlands with powerful navies, would have made it a necessity to maintain a strong Navy (much more so than for France). As for trade even a GB incorporating France would have wanted to compete for the riches of the new world (as both England/GB and France did historically). There would certainly have been a greater focus on land power, but not to the exclusion of naval power and trade/colonies.
 
Would it have been a different GB that emerged if England has managed to hold on to the French crown, no doubt. But to assume that Britain would not still have had a powerful navy and been a leading trade power is step too far. Given that the country would have had possessions that were only linked by water and most likely rivals in Spain and the Netherlands with powerful navies, would have made it a necessity to maintain a strong Navy (much more so than for France). As for trade even a GB incorporating France would have wanted to compete for the riches of the new world (as both England/GB and France did historically). There would certainly have been a greater focus on land power, but not to the exclusion of naval power and trade/colonies.
I think you are right that the British would have had a strong navy even if they had controlled France. This is because while France had a strong army, it was a force to be reckoned with for Britain, both in terms of naval power and trade.
Frankly, it is hard to argue with your point. After all, the goal of the EU4 is the WC, so there is no rational reason why Britain should not conquer France.
However, I believe that Britain was able to become the largest empire because it had sea borders, not land borders, so I would not want to rule France in such a way that Britain would cease to be an island nation.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
it makes more sense than creating Angevin Kingdom or normal France
What would make the most sense is not introducing a new tag for the sake of it and just giving us the option between the colonial or continental mission trees.

Would I be right in saying that if for France you claimed the English throne you'd have to form England to get continental missions, you would be in favour of it? Because that's really just the same as what you're suggesting here, except the shoe is on the other foot?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
What would make the most sense is not introducing a new tag for the sake of it and just giving us the option between the colonial or continental mission trees.

Would I be right in saying that if for France you claimed the English throne you'd have to form England to get continental missions, you would be in favour of it? Because that's really just the same as what you're suggesting here, except the shoe is on the other foot?
Except it would make no sense, while changing from England to France after winning HYW makes a lot of sense due to it being more prestigeous than English throne.

And again - removing colonial missions from England after picking european domination patch is most likely a way to balance it a bit by lowering trade income from colonies
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Except it would make no sense, while changing from England to France after winning HYW makes a lot of sense due to it being more prestigeous than English throne.

And again - removing colonial missions from England after picking european domination patch is most likely a way to balance it a bit by lowering trade income from colonies
It wouldn't be more prestigious though would it, the English throne would become more prestigious as a result of seizing the French throne. Where's the prestige in a throne that's just been seized by another? The English kings would never choose to change the name of their possessions to that of their rivals who they just defeated and humiliated. France would be integrated into England, not the other way around.

What makes the French throne so prestigious enough in the first place to justify changing the name of your country anyway?

I'm not against the mission trees being split in two, I never said that. I'd be happy with having to choose between colonial and continental missions as long as it didn't involve creating a nonsensical new tag.
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions: