Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 31st of January 2023 - Japan

[Unseelie]

I know you guys are focusing on the big tags, and the popular ones. I'm very excited about the Japan update and the China update, for a few of my friends in a mp group. But for myself, and I'm just putting this out because I uh...I think there is a small contingent of players who like the new world and wish there was more there.

So, I just...don't expect this to be on your plan, because obviously you want to cater to the most-played nations and the Inti, Mayan, and Nahutl nations aren't those...

But I think they have a major impact on the game. For one, the colonizers engage with those nations, and Spain being a world power is heavily dependent on their interaction with those nations.

It seems to me, and quite possibly, as I said, some sub-set of players who've tried those nations and either decided they weren't fun and therefore...very few of us play them...Or whatever, but it seems to me that they could really do with a re-fresh:

Missions.
After-reform religion mechanics.
Goverment reforms.

 

[Primo_Xanthous]

will the streltsy spam ever be fixed? if your empire development is already huge. with just one click you can raised a 30-60 units, and after one battle you can consolidate them. Maybe add huge penalty to streltsy if you go above forcelimits?
other special units got limit on how many you can recruit. and the only con for the streltsy is the stability cost which is not really felt if you have already positive stability. and you rarely got stab hit, unless your unlucky with events.

 

[olivenkranz]

will the streltsy spam ever be fixed? if your empire development is already huge. with just one click you can raised a 30-60 units, and after one battle you can consolidate them. Maybe add huge penalty to streltsy if you go above forcelimits?
other special units got limit on how many you can recruit. and the only con for the streltsy is the stability cost which is not really felt if you have already positive stability. and you rarely got stab hit, unless your unlucky with events.

only 60? In my recent Russian game I could summon 200 at the end. I only used the button twice though, because I otherwise would have gone way too far over the FL.

 

[Primo_Xanthous]

only 60? In my recent Russian game I could summon 200 at the end. I only used the button twice though, because I otherwise would have gone way too far over the FL.

mid to late game you could have more than 200. that's my point their instant army which don't have much penalty when using, unlike other special units.

 

[iClipse]

In a bit of a late response: any chance to allow to keep your original color when forming another nation? As an option/decision I mean.

Oda red > Japan red

 

[Cruxador]

Gotta say, this Japan makes me kind of disappointed in what Ming gets. Most of their stuff is available to anyone who takes the mandate, and Japan gets the best way to do that plus lots of other benefits, meaning that the best China is... Japan. For someone who wants to play China, it's pretty unfortunate.

 

[Port.Sacral]

I postet this in the Russia blog too, but I also writes it here too, because it concerns Japan as well as Russia.

To add a event/decision/whatsoever wich creates a united russian culture is a great idea. That and a similar mechanic for the japanese cultures should really be included in the update.
To include this in the formation decisions for both countries would be ideal, I think. Similar to the change from Jurchen to Manchu.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

-Reinforcement speed is like the worst thing to add to special units. It just makes carpet sieging with them such a pain and makes me not want to use them. Am I like, unique in this opinion??

Having played elves in Anbennar...no. You are not. Not only is carpet sieging a pain, but they also take ages to recover between fights when you have to/want to take fights. If you don't take fights, which is more ideal, you might as well have regular units that don't attrition into being incapable of sieging as onesies as easily.

Stuff that sieges slower than normal is annoying too, though at least one of those gets to break truces w/o paying monarch points for it in Anbennar. Anbennar devs also found a way to finally make cavalry a reasonable choice to build; for some species/factions there are no infantry!

Anyway, suffering through slow reinforce speed was my bad for acting in a way that might produce more elves, which is one of the most heinous war crimes one might commit. I guess samurai reinforce speed is the punishment for thinking they're special compared to knights or similar.

In a bit of a late response: any chance to allow to keep your original color when forming another nation? As an option/decision I mean.

Oda red > Japan red

Yes, except if you form Prussia the option still won't be there. Just in case.

 

[danshakuimo]

Pretty cool.

I just have to ask: any new stuff for Ryukyu?

They should have their own culture, I believe even Japan deliberately avoided assimilating them for a long time irl.

 

[sciamachist]

Sinicization is a very painful mechanic to script, the way it's created by us is - to put it this way - very manual. Due to this I decided to not add sinicization and instead offer an increase to accepted cultures!

I think the EU4 team should still be impelled to add this decision, simply due to the historical accuracy of it. Hell, even Hideyoshi wanted to rule over China and put a relative in charge of his homeland in Japan!

Even today, modern China looks towards Japan, as Japan retained a lot of traditional Tang Chinese elements, of which modern China is trying to revitalise.

It doesn’t make sense that Tibetans and Dzungars can sinicise despite having completely different scripts and languages, while Japan, a nation that uses Chinese characters till this day, cannot.

I understand that this likely makes the Chinese culture group ridiculously powerful. Still, it bugs me, and likely many others who care a lot about historical realism (even alt history).

 

[sylight]

These new contents on Japan is very interesting and I'd really welcome most of them. Thank you very much for the great effort! @PDX Big Boss

Nonetheless, looking at the mission tree and some of the flavor events shown here, I am deeply concerned about the 'cultural' or 'flavour' part in them. There are much better choices. I'd list what they are here with my suggested changes. I sincerely hope the dev team can look at and consider them.

Overall, I believe the Japanese mission tree is trying to portrait an united Japan either under a Shogun or a Mikado, and my following comments are based on this assumption. I'll start with the mission tree.

1. EoC mission names and related events(if there are). While it is perfectly sensible and sound to have the 'what-if' EoC missions for Japan, since there were quite a few attempts to conquer and control the Chinese region from an united Japan historically. Directly giving some of the Ming-based EoC mission names to Japan just by translating the literal names are not only akward but a bizarre. They simply destroy all the flavour and sense of history. (Giving these mission names to Qing is also strange but to a 'bit' less extent)

Two of the missions' names stand out most: the "Single Whip Law" and the "Eiraku Taiten" (Or "Yongle Dadian"). "Form the Depots" is also not great.
My suggestions are to rename the "Single Whip Law" into something like "Establish the Silver Standard", and rename the "Eiraku Taiten" into something like "Wakan Sansai Zue" (和漢三才図会、Literally 'Illustrated Sino-Japanese Encyclopedia'). "Form the Depots" can become "Form the Oometsuke" (大目付、Literally 'the First Eye of Shogun')

1.1 The "Single Whip Law" was an attempt to reorganise the tax-in-kind system into a Silver Standard tax system. The aim is to reduce the transport cost and administration cost to collect all kinds of good or services as tax. Silver in-flow from trade with the Spanish empire (mainly from South American colonies - Potosi for example) enabled this reformation, since the silver production in China is simply too few to support such a Silver Standard system. (Many historians studied and wrote about this, for example, ReOrient by AG Frank). This reorganisation prcess gives its name; 'By weaving the multiple threads (of taxes-in-kind) into a single whip (of tax-in-silver)' -- From 'The History of Ming - Treatise on Food and Money'.

Japan, in the entire Sengoku and Edo period, is running a Rice Standard tax system. The Shogun and Daimyos pay their Samurai in terms of Rice (or the Rices equivalence coins). A major reason this system sustained is that transport by sea has relatively low cost to an island nation like Japan. Now imagine if Japan became the EoC. The Rice Standard system is unlikely to sustain in the China region, due to the aforementioned high cost. The EoC Japan would have all the motivations to transform the tax system. Does Japan has the potential silver resources to establish a Silver Standard system? Surely! In addition to the silver in-flow from the trade with Western Colonial Powers, Japan itself has significant silver deposits. For example, the 'Iwami Ginzan' the largest of all the major Japan silver mines, first discovered in 1526 and operating until 1923 (fitting the scope of EU4 well). This mine produced approx. 1/3 of world total silver production at its peak (in 1600s, and guess what, the other 2/3 is basically all from Potosi at the time). Therefore I would completely support the idea of giving EoC Japan this mission. However, as aforementioned, Japan did not have the Ming-style complicated tax-in-kind but rather a Rice Standard system, there is very little possibility for them to call the reformation 'Single Whip Law'. The Japanese did not have the 'multi-thread taxes' in the beginning!

1.2 The 'Eiraku Taiten' (or 'Yongle Dadian') literally means 'the Encyclopedia of Yongle (Era)'. 'Yongle' is the era name of the Yongle Emperor (Zhu Di, 1403-1425), the third Emperor of Ming. This encyclopedia gets the name simply because it was ordered by the Yongle Emperor and completed under his reign (Yongle Era). It is a common practice in East-Asia region to compile encyclopedia to showcase the properity and cultural achievement under a ruler's reign.(Though I'd say similar things happen in the west too, think about the origin of the British Encyclopedia) For the very same reason, it makes absolutely non-sense for a new EoC to order the production of a new encyclopedia using or associating its name with some EoC from a previous dynasty. It was to showcase how better they are now than the predecessor after all! The Qing dynasty ordered 'Siku Quanshu' which resembled the 'Yongle Dadian' (and I believe the Qing EoC mission should bear this name), while historically, the Japanese Edo Era has a similar encyclopedia produced (Wakan Sansai Zue, or Illustrated Sino-Japanese Encyclopedia in approx. 1712) though smaller in scale to its counter-part produced in China.

Now again think of a Japan EoC, this 'Wakan Sansai Zue' would be a perfect name for an encyclopedia resembling 'Yongle Dadian' or 'Siku Quanshu' under his/her reign. The book's name shows 'Wa'(Japan) + 'Kan' (China) + 'Sansai'(Tenchinin, Heaven+Earth+Human) + 'Zue'(Encyclopedia), and perfectly matches the theme of a Japanese EoC (The book of Everything in Japan and China).

1.3 The 'Depot' is less a problem. My main concern is that Japan, unlike Korea or China, has never used enunches en-masse (or at all), while the Depots are led by enunch. The Edo era certainly has established a new FBI-like agency like every nations in history in the world, the name is Oometsuke (established in around 1632). The most famous person holding (and established) this position is probably Yagyu Munenori (the son of the legendary Samurai Yagyu Munetoshi).

2. Unique mission names for Japan. Somewhat similar to the Japan EoC missions, mission names like 'Five Regent Houses' are inappropriate, while 'Imjin War' might be changed depending on the mission tree's perspective.
I would suggest changing 'Five Regent Houese' to 'Law for the Court' (Referring to the 'Kinchu narabini kuge shohatto', or the 'Laws for the Imperial and Court Officials'). For 'Imjin War', if it is changed, then 'Bunroku-Keicho War' or simply 'Chosen seibatsu' might serve well. Here are the reasons;

2.1 I assume the 'Five Regent Houses' mission is referring to the series of laws and regulations to setup the relationship between the Emperor's court and the Shogunate during the start of the Tokugawa Shogunates, as the mission is right after 'Edo Period'. The 'Five Regent Houses' were established long before the Edo period, roughly around the mid of the Kamakura period (~1250, way before the scope of EU4). What the Tokugawa Shogunate did is to set the boundary of privileges and rights of the Imperial family and the kuge (imperial court officials, headed by the Five Regent Houses) by issuing the 'Kinchu narabini kuge shohatto'(禁中並公家諸法度, 'Laws for the Imperial and Court Officials').

2.2 The 'Imjin War' is certainly a very neutral name, but since the mission tree is kind of from the Japanese perspective, 'Bunroku-Keicho no eki' (War in the Years of Bunroku and Keicho) is the name used in Japanese history records.However, the name is generally considered as retro-spective, as the Japanese at the time wouldn't know how long this war will last. At the time around the war, 'Chosen seibatsu' or Conquering Korea is a more common name given to this war. The 'Imjin War', on the other hand, is mainly derived from the war's name in Korean history record, and Imjin is the name of the year (1592) in the Sexagenary cycle (or Ganzhi Jinian) year recording system used in Chinese influenced areas. Interestingly, the war is commonly named as "Wanli Korean War" in Chinese records, where "Wanli" is the name of the era the war happened. "Wanli" is kind of the equivalent of the Japanese"Bunroku" or "Keicho" in Ming.

3. Choices of characters or advisors appeared in new flavour events. These actually concerned me most and are the main reasons I decide to write this post. The event "Poetry and Songs of the Edo Period" currently rewards a historical advisor "Yoshiya Chiru" (吉屋鶴), which is a Ryukyu female poet at the time. An inappropriate but similar example is like awarding the player with a historical native american poet in an event commemorating the Arts and Literature achievements of the British Thirteen Colonies. It's just terrible. There are way-better choices to commemorate female artist/poets in Edo Japan, like Shiba Sonome (斯波 園女, 1664-1726), famous female poet and a friend of the lengendary poet Matsuo Basho (松尾 芭蕉).

3.1 In the event "Poetry and Songs of the Edo Period", which mentions artistic achievements like Haiku in the Edo Period, rewarded the player a historical advisor "Yoshiya Chiru" (吉屋鶴). While I fully appreaciate and completely agree that outstanding women in history needs more attention and promotion in every possible occasions. "Yoshiya Chiru" (1650?-1668?) is a particularly poor choice for this event. She is from Ryukyu, which is never officially considered as part of Japan by the Shogunate during the entire Edo period. Nor she has any interaction with the arts or poem communities in the Edo Japan, for the same reason (Ryukyu Kingdom is not part of Edo Japan). Yes, the Ryukyu kingdom is a de-facto vassal state of the Satsuma Domain, but it was never officially annexed by Japan until 1872(after the time-scope of EU4). Most importantly, Ryukyu maintained its independent cultural identity and unique arts/poems/languages till the cultural assimilation under the Imperial Japanese Government (in the 19-20 centuries). Its simply lingering colonialism or ignorance or arrogance to put a historical Ryukyu Kingdom artist as an example of Edo Japan's arts and poems achivements (or in the time frame of EU4, 1444-1820). It's simply an insult to both Ryukyu Kingdom and Edo Japan.

3.2 The event "Onna-Musha in the Edo Period", which rewards a historical General Ohori Tsuruhime (鶴姫, 1526?-1543?). Again, it's a very weird choice. Tsuruhime is quite likely a fictional charater, and the first record of her only appeared in a novel published in 1966. Other historical records at her time did not mention anything about her. On the other hand, There are quite some influentical female General-Warriors in the Sengoku Period (1467-1590). To name but a few, Ii Naotora (1530?-1582), Tachibana Ginchiyo (1569-1602), and Kaihime (1572-?). Naotora is particularly prominent, as she is officially the Head of Ii Clan from 1563 to her death, and Ii Clan later became one of the four pillar clans of the Edo Shogunate. Any of these female warrior-generals I mentionedd can be a great demostration of female power in Japanese history.


On a side note for the colour suggestion of Samurai SU, I feel either Goldenish Yellow (representing the Royal House), a special Scarlet (called 猩々緋, Shojohi. #E7001D) or a special Indigo (called 勝色, Katsu Iro, the colour of victory. #181B39) is good. Though the Scarlet one might be too close to Janissary.

Golenish Yellow is the traditional colour associated with the Japanese Chrysanthum (not purple, I am actually quite surprised that the European impression colour of Chrysanthum is purple). The colour can be seen from the actual 'Chrysanthum Throne', or the Chrysanthum Emblem, Coat of Arm of the Japan Royal House, also on the cover of Japanese Passport.

The Shojohi and the Katsu Iro colours are both traditionally associated with samurai since the Edo period, and are both commonly used for battle garments of samurai if they can affort it. The shojohi colour is introduced with the Velvet brought by the foreign merchants and are commonly used on 陣羽織 (Jinbaori, a kind of surcoat weared by high rank samurai on battlefield with armours). The Katsu Iro is more traditional and was used since the Kamakura Era (roughly 1300-1400). Its name comes from the action of dyeing cloth with traditional indigo dyes (bashing cloth in the dye solution, 搗つ, which is a homophone of the word '勝つ' Victory). Thus samurai like to use this colour on both their daily cloth and battle garments to wish for a victory.

 

[KreeperGamer]

@PDX Big Boss (Sorry for the ping but I figured you guys aren't usually going through old DD comments)

I know it's a bit late to be posting this, but it doesn't seem like there's a way for a Pirate Republic Japan (thanks to So) to squeak through the Christianity crisis without flipping away from Pirate. Is that game path no longer supported?