Feedback Requested: Factions and Politics

[TheArid]

Sectors should be soft limited in number, like star base, so that actual frontier region exist in the galaxy for non planet based empire to work in (pirate and nomad), with limited ways to increase the number or size of the sectors. This favor taller and compact empire compared to too wide empire. Sector would reduce autonomy, reduce piracy, give full map intel, reduce enemy cloaking and increased yours (in empire ambush in war mostly) and put pop in the core ethic factions.

Planets should have an autonomy value (which would reduce output by half its autonomy value to represent the lack of connecting infrastructure and local keeping part of the resources, increase stability and increase attraction to independence faction). There should also be a unrepresented faction for frontier world pop that are happy to be in the empire, but desires representation, but from which pop could drift to the independence faction. 0% autonomy planet would give the same benefit as sectors (reduce piracy, give full map intel, reduce enemy cloaking and increased yours, and put pop in the core ethic factions)

• Core sector planets would have zero max autonomy.
• Frontier world would have 50% base autonomy.
  • Could be further changed by distance from nearest sector capital with +5% autonomy for each sector between
    • 50% autonomy on the edge of a sector, 0% autonomy 11 sector away from a sector capital

Way to change autonomy level

• Sector -30% autonomy
  • If sector is connected to core sector -50% total autonomy
• Putting a governor reduce autonomy through level (half value across sector)
  • Governor as the most efficient at -2% per level compared to -1% for scientist and military
  • though military governor brings stability through troops, so it doesn't reduce autonomy as well, but as more base stability.
• Leader trait
  • Autonomy -/+ 5% per trait level
    • Alternatively, tacked on another niche trait with reduced effect
  • There could be a governor trait that increase autonomy in exchange of complete loyalty, making an autonomous sector, where the planet / sector would have forced automation (you still control designation) and it's kept resource would go to its stockpile to use. Not a vassal, but a federal state.
• Ethic Authoritarian -5/10% autonomy
• Tradition domination -10% autonomy
• Policy and edicts -10% autonomy for hyper relay connected world
• Star base in sector giving -10% autonomy with black site giving an additional -10%
• Disconnected sectors +30% autonomy
  • extra +20% autonomy if you can't reach the planets because of closed borders
• Devastation increase autonomy at +50% autonomy at 100% devastation, the government couldn't protect us!
  • devastation already reduce output and destroy building (thus job), so it's more for independence and revanchist appeal
• Covert operation
  • Causing devastation to increase autonomy
  • Increase faction appeal for independence faction on high autonomy world

With the leader rework done, a potential faction rework and an empire territory management rework, I would argue the game has it internal politics done.

In general, I feel like sectors and planets far away from your capital should have a governing ethics attraction and stability penalty. It's difficult to administer such a large empire

 

[passeris]

Well, obviously it was because it is the opposite of Materialism. But it is also more than Idealism, hence the name (I support the present naming).

Really though, the whole dichotomy sticks out from other ethics because there really isn't any clear gameplay preference for the ethic. All the other ethics have a clear gameplay preference, the pacifists want you to keep the peace, the militarists want you to wage war.

Those two however, they just seem to want you to promote themselves, for the sake of keeping them happy and have asymmetrical ends. Spiritualism is not against Science, though Materialism is I guess against religion, it isn't their members problem unless the religion is imposed on them by the government, which is pretty extreme even by Spiritualist standards.

So Spiritualism wants to promote itself and Materialism just wants to stop them?

I don't know how you are defining Spiritualism except by the circular argument of Stellaris' current usage. Idealism is certainly against science, because what of use can science tell us about a world that is illusory, or secondary at best? See that when you change 'Spiritualism' to Idealism, the balance you're missing appears, and the whole thing makes more sense.

And it now clearly points towards a gameplay preference for each ethic: Materialists seek to materially perfect their being, while Idealists seek a connection with the world beyond -- towards Synthetic and Psionic ascensions respectively, as I already suggested. Which is why these two ascensions should be ethic-locked.

 

[SS Boss]

Some ideas I have:

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1. Faction Customization from the Start​

• Players should be able to create and customize their factions at the beginning of the game.
• This includes defining the faction’s name, ethics, core values/traits, and flag.

---

2. Faction Identity and Continuity​

• Unique Icon and Immutable Laws
  Factions should have a unique icon and immutable laws or values that define their identity.
• Shared Identity Through Conquest
  If a faction is installed in another nation via war, the two nations would share the same faction.
• Faction Evolution
  If the faction evolves or changes, it would form a "brother faction" with a new name, but the flag and core ethics would remain unchanged. Only laws would be flexible, preserving the faction's identity.

---

3. Flexible and Nuanced Faction Rules​

• Avoid rigid faction stereotypes. For instance:
  • A spiritualist faction could choose to grant full rights to AI.
  • A xenophobe faction might ban slavery while remaining isolationist.
• Factions should reflect a spectrum of values, avoiding oversimplified labels like "xenophobe = racist."
• Realistic Alien Policies
  It’s illogical for conquered aliens to favor xenophobic policies that diminish their rights; this should be re-evaluated for greater realism.

---

4. Revamped Diplomacy Based on Actions and Rules​

• Relationships between nations should be influenced by their actions and faction rules, not just static ethics alignment.
  For example:
  • Spiritualist nations wouldn’t automatically like each other simply because they share the same ethics.
• Dynamic Attitudes
  Diplomatic attitudes should consider faction-specific laws, traits, and in-game actions.
  • Default modifiers would still exist (e.g., spiritualists typically opposing materialists), but these would be augmented by a dynamic system.

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5. Faction Rivalries and Traits​

• Factions shouldn’t inherently get along even if they share broad ethics.
  For example:
  • A spiritualist faction with a "fundamentalist" trait might despise other spiritualist factions while still being friendly with other nations.

---

6. Dynamic Faction Generation​

• At the game’s start, the player would create their faction, while two additional factions are randomly generated based on ethics.
• Emergent Factions
  As the game progresses, new factions could become available to choose from due to conquest, immigration, or refugee influxes from other nations, adding depth and variety.

---

7. Faction Stability and Leadership​

• Faction shifts should be rare without external pressures or significant upheaval.
• Nations would greatly prioritize leaders from their ruling faction.

---

8. Faction Influence in War​

• Not all factions should be able to assert themselves in other nations through war.
  For example:
  • Isolationists would be an exception.

I'd really like faction customization. Since we're not playing as the government, but as the embodiment of the empire itself, it makes sense, and its better for gameplay and RP purposes instead of pre-established or random ones.

Add "interests" to serve as the factions' "civics", to customize their end goals and how they'll interact with each other, etc.

This makes easier to make interesting, eventful factions instead of boring buff/debuff machines.

 

[Halberdier King]

I do feel that, if we are going to have unique factions (like multiple distinct egalitarian factions, or an endless array of different possibilities), we should be able to customize our starting factions. Like, if we are playing as spiritualists, we can customize that faction to represent our religion. Or if egalitarian or xenophobe, we could have some customization over the exact ideology of those factions. I think it could help boost RP and let us fine-tune the empire set up to have the ideologies be how we imagine them.

 

[SolarChallenger]

+1 to being able to choose your starting factions if they are made diverse. Especially if they are distinct enough like spiritualist being anti-robot OR psionic. Because it would suck creating a psionic civ and than roll into the anti-robots faction instead. If you gain a spiritualist faction later in the game though I want it to be random.

Or now that I think about it, if faction are going to be diverse they probably wouldn't be fully random but rather based upon environment to at least some degree. So even if you don't hand pick psionic vs robots, if you take a psionic origin or something than whatever decides what factions you get would hopefully be smart enough to know the spiritualist in your empire want psionics.

 

[oreopirate]

I'd love to see proxy and cold wars.

 

[Halberdier King]

After giving it some more thought, my ideal would be to have multi-ethic factions, with each representing more of an ideology. You might have a xenophile/egalitarian faction that represents an ideology of universal equality, or a spiritualist/pacifist faction believing in religious non-violence and peaceful proselytization. In this setup, pops would have a faction/ideology, rather than just an ethic.

 

[Letharion]

+1 to being able to choose your starting factions if they are made diverse. Especially if they are distinct enough like spiritualist being anti-robot OR psionic. Because it would suck creating a psionic civ and than roll into the anti-robots faction instead. If you gain a spiritualist faction later in the game though I want it to be random.

Or now that I think about it, if faction are going to be diverse they probably wouldn't be fully random but rather based upon environment to at least some degree. So even if you don't hand pick psionic vs robots, if you take a psionic origin or something than whatever decides what factions you get would hopefully be smart enough to know the spiritualist in your empire want psionics.

I think, choosing your factions freely would be too vulnerable for MinMax. But origins and civics could play an important role in shaping the factions.

 

[TSBasilisk]

With regards to religions, those won't be a dedicated faction in many empires, but can still exist in them. I think those might be better on a separate "cultural" layer. Culture and religions can spread beyond your borders but have only indirect influence on your government; factions are confined to your empire.

 

[Cry_Havok]

With regards to religions, those won't be a dedicated faction in many empires, but can still exist in them. I think those might be better on a separate "cultural" layer. Culture and religions can spread beyond your borders but have only indirect influence on your government; factions are confined to your empire.

Culture should influence factions though. Imagine an authoritarian, an Egalitarian, and a Materialist alliance, all united by being xenophile. The Materialist Xenophile sees discrimination as an illogical waste of resources, the Egalitarian takes their creed of equality to its logical endpoint, and the authorarian believes only the strong should rule, regardless of species. After a century of alliance, their cultures should intermingle and cause shifts and changes to each other's xenoist parties.

 

[SolarChallenger]

I think, choosing your factions freely would be too vulnerable for MinMax. But origins and civics could play an important role in shaping the factions.

If you are hand crafting a civ to be op, that's already gonna be impossible to stop with how many synergies and origins and such there are in the game. Like if factions are still hella generic than sure, they can be random. But if faction are as diverse as I'd like them to be, it seems important to be able to create the civ I want if I wanna roleplay something specific. For balance purposes I could see only choosing a limited number of starting factions with limitations and the rest filling in based on environment though.

 

[Azar]

After giving it some more thought, my ideal would be to have multi-ethic factions, with each representing more of an ideology.

They already do that, don't they?

 

[Cry_Havok]

They already do that, don't they?

Only Xenophobe has a split faction: supremacist, and isolationist. Isolationist is the party that phobe-xenos join, and breaks the AI when embraced. Militarist and Xenophile show as Mil/Auth and Phile/Egal due to their overlapping faction demands, but there is not mil/egal or phile/auth faction.

 

[Ikael]

I am extremely wary of 100% customizable factions. I mean, factions are already extremely unbalanced already, and such a thing would only make it worse. It would also prevent a viable design space where factions could grant heavy bonuses and maluses, for it would be far too exploitable.

That being said, a viable alternative would be modular factions instead.

Long story short, your ethics choice would come with predefined demands per ethic point, where half of them would be easy obtainable, and the other half would require active player decisions, thus making it impossible to abuse it.

Let me give you an example of that:

>> Spiritualist (traditionalists) demands:

- Holy land: Your capital is located at your homeworld
- Respect towards authority: Have at least one, two, or three active edicts or ambitions

>> Fanatic Spiritualists (fundamentalists) demands:

- Historic continuity: You have not changed any of your initial civics. Adding extra civics does not affect this demand
- Abominable intelligences: Ban AI. Appears upon researching this tech

>> Xenophile (Cosmopolitan) demands:

- Xeno rights: Xenos have the same rights as your main species
- Federated: Be inside a federation or lead a federation

>> Xenophobe (isolationist) demands:

- Restricted movement: No Migration Treaty with nor migration access from another empire. Refugees policy isn't Refugees Welcome
- Strong alone: Do not join any federation. Appears once you contact a federation, or once a federation is formed among the empires you have contacted

So if you were a Fanatic Spiritualist Xenophile, your "custom" made faction would have all the previous demands rolled in together:

>> Church of the Holy Biodiversity

- Holy land: Your capital is located at your homeworld
- Respect towards authority: Have at least one, two, or three active edicts or ambitions
- Historic continuity: You have not changed any of your initial civics. Adding extra civics does not affect this demand
- Abominable intelligences: Ban AI. Appears upon researching this tech
- Xeno rights: Xenos have the same rights as your main species
- Federated: Be inside a federation or lead a federation

Would you change the Xenophile ethic point for the Xenophobe, however, the faction would automatically become something like this instead:

>> Cult of the cultural purity

- Holy land: Your capital is located at your homeworld
- Respect towards authority: Have at least one, two, or three active edicts or ambitions
- Historic continuity: You have not changed any of your initial civics. Adding extra civics does not affect this demand
- Abominable intelligences: Ban AI. Appears upon researching this tech
- Restricted movement: No Migration Treaty with nor migration access from another empire. Refugees policy isn't Refugees Welcome
- Strong alone: Do not join any federation. Appears once you contact a federation, or once a federation is formed among the empires you have contacted

That being said, this model of custom factions would lean hard into the whole "factions = culture", and it would probably demand far fewer sources of ethical attraction, but it would play extremely well in terms of empire identity and assimilating xenos from different backgrounds, with hard choices to be made between shared beliefs VS divergent, frictional viewpoints.

 

[Azar]

Only Xenophobe has a split faction: supremacist, and isolationist. Isolationist is the party that phobe-xenos join, and breaks the AI when embraced. Militarist and Xenophile show as Mil/Auth and Phile/Egal due to their overlapping faction demands, but there is not mil/egal or phile/auth faction.

I meant factions representing an ideology, which they do, in my opinion. But you want the factions to be further contradictory and fight each other, which Im not sure I agree as a whole. I think its cooler if the factions are not as black and white, at least all the time. It wouldn't be very believable. Also in in-game terms, cause I will just stamp out the weak and contradictory faction and that would be that. Not much fun to be had there.

I think its ok if the factions appear with a little bit of RNG in them, affecting how much they align with your government form and civics.

 

[bronze Void poison]

factions of more varied ideologies, better tasks, and ideally can be externally influenced by other empires via spies.
also make it more able to do horrible stuff in the empire if powerful and not happy.

 

[Rayzen10]

Maybe less talk and more doing, i am bored of all this feedback every week, but no new content out .... this is why western civilization is crumbling too many bosses and meetings to plan stuff and too little doing ....

 

[Lorenerd11]

About a week too late to really join the discussion, but my two cents is that the currenct factions are too narrow and predefined.

The Technologist faction wants you to enter research agreements with everyone, but that feels more like a sort of Materialist-Xenophile faction. For a Materialist empire focused on technological supremacy, such a faction is extremely out of place. There should definitely be a faction more focused on maintaining your technological superiority and hoarding knowledge instead.

Likewise, the Imperialist faction looks out of place in a Militarist empire that doesn't specifically focus on conquest: for example, a Militarist-Egalitarian Democratic Crusader empire should have a faction that is less interested in conquest and subjugation, and more in liberation.

There should also be a possibility of a Materialist-Egalitarian faction actively interested in robot rights, in contrast with other Materialist factions that are content with exploitation.

I've experimented with some of such ideas here:

Faction Rework – Mixed-Ethic Factions

An idea being floated around lately is a mixed-ethics factions system, changing all factions to be made up of two non-opposing ethics instead of just one. Each pop would also hold two ethics instead of just one. I wrote down a few ideas for some...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

It includes other ideas, such as, e.g. a Spiritualist-Xenophile faction that is less dogmatic and more accepting of robots or non-religious aspects of our empire than say, the Traditionalist faction, a Materialist-Xenophobe faction focused on enhancing your species, etc.

There should also be means of interacting with factions without affecting the entire ethic: for instance, a machine-exploiting Materialist empire would want to suppress the machine liberator faction without suppressing the Materialist ethic.

 

[bronze Void poison]

Maybe less talk and more doing, i am bored of all this feedback every week, but no new content out .... this is why western civilization is crumbling too many bosses and meetings to plan stuff and too little doing ....

why are you complaining about a company trying to listen to their customers, did I walk into a parallel reality or something?

 

[workbot]

I think the cybernetic creed origin is a good start, but as soon as you finish the plotline, the factions become irrelevant again.

Even just having events or demands happen at times could make things fun. Like, if you haven't been building enough ships or going to war, your militarist faction whinges a bit.