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HoI 4 - Dev Diary: America Rework

Hello, and welcome back to another dev diary! Today we are going to talk about Freedom. Freedom from Fear. Freedom from Want. Freedom from having to vote for a presidential candidate every four years.


The vanilla US focus tree offered some interesting alternate-history scenarios, but if you wanted to play historical, you pretty much sat around doing very little until the war started. Part of this is the fundamental design problem of the US in a historical grand-strategy game: if we allow the US to freely enter the war when it has even a fraction of its historical economy, the Axis never makes it into Paris and the war ends in 1940. If we restrict the US from entering the war freely until its historical date, the US player sits around until late 1941 doing very little (there is a reason why my usual go-to scenario in HoI2 and HoI3 was “Play France until you lose, then switch to the US”).


usa_focus_devdiary.jpg



So one of the goals we had for this rework was to give the player a bit more stuff to actually do during the lead-up to the war. Making the path out of the depression a little more involved was an obvious place to start. Instead of a single national spirit, it is now three levels that give a smoother curve out of the depression. But instead of just taking three focuses in a row to do what could previously be done in one, we wanted the player to have to work a lot more to get out of the depression.


Enter the script-based Congress Mechanic. The Congress mechanic is - for now - unique to the US and simulates the shifting majorities in both houses of Congress. It ties into a lot of things that we will get into in a bit. But on a fundamental level, taking the focuses that reduce the penalties from the great depression will require you to have a majority in both houses, but will also reduce your support once you have taken it to simulate members of Congress who voted for the proposal being unwilling to support you further without getting something in return.


picture_us_congress.JPG



You can gain and lose support from random events as well as midterm and presidential elections. Generally speaking, going with the incumbent means you are more likely to lose support in Congress in the election, and if the situation is particularly dire, going with the challenger will flip support and opposition. Beyond this, a number of decisions allow you to gain support in congress, from simple lobbying to bribing members of Congress by investing in their constituencies to just regularly bribing them.


picture_us_build_factory.JPG



Besides getting out of the depression, you’ll also need to get Congress to sign off on the Selective Service Act, which is the gatekeeper focus of the army modernization branch, and the Two Ocean Navy Act, which is the gatekeeper focus for the naval branch. The amount of support you need depends on your war support (in general, you can assume that every focus with “Act” somewhere in its title ties into the Congress mechanic).


Another aspect we wanted to add was to give the US player a choice to become more active in the world earlier. As I said above, that comes with host of issues. We want it to be a viable option, but not a no-brainer. This means that there will be a number of restrictions in the “Limited Intervention” branch. First, you’ll have to have enough support in Congress to take the focus (and a lack of war support means that quite a few member of Congress will break ranks over it). Afterwards, you will have to choose between focusing your efforts on preparing to intervene in Europe or in Asia. Taking either of these focuses unlocks a number of decisions to try and build public support for an intervention. Many of these decisions are tied to events around the world - here the US is protesting the Anschluss.


picture_us_anschluss.JPG



However, there is only a small window to utilize these events. Each decision adds something that is internally called an “intervention strike” as in “three strikes and you’re out”, except in this case it’s “three strikes and we start bombing”. A generic decision allows to build support against a target if they do not have specific decisions associated with them. Finally, once a country has two strikes against them, you can petition congress to sanction an intervention, which will again require significant support (it is easier to gain a wargoal against a country that is at war, and easier still if they are in an aggressive war).


This will likely make it harder for you to pursue your other goals - so if you want to intervene in Europe on behalf of the Allies, you will most likely have to forego economic reforms, at least for a while.


The intervention mandates are also used to allow the US to intervene in the Americas if someone violates the Monroe doctrine.


Intervention in general is something you can prepare a lot better now by using war plans. Completing the focuses unlocks a decision to execute the corresponding war plan and gain a temporary bonus against a country, along with some other temporary bonuses.


us_picture_war_plan.jpg



Of course, by this point a statistical majority of you might wonder why you even bother with all this busy-work, bribing senators, cutting deals with representatives, when there is a world to be won. As promised, we also wanted to add proper alternate ideology branches for the US. As we said many months ago in the Dev Diary about South Africa, we also look to try and open up new areas of the map for warfare, to allow you to fight in different areas than trudging across the same old parts of Europe.


So we wanted to have a nice big Civil War in the US. We want tank battles south of Chicago. Naval landings in Florida. A brutal slog across the Rocky Mountains. So we decided to not just put in one civil war but two! That’s a whole 100% MORE CIVIL WAR!


You’ll have to fight a civil war in either of the alternate ideology branches. For the curious: the branches straight down from the WPA and Adjusted Compensation Act are democratic ideology branches and will be part of the free update, the branches starting with Suspend the Prosecution and America First will be part of the DLC.


In the left branch, appropriately enough, you soften up your stance towards the communists. You can do this even if you don’t intend to go fully communist, as it opens up new ways of gaining support in Congress. If you do decide to be more radical, you can desegregate the American society, which will trigger protests from the usual suspects. The protests by themselves don’t do anything, but if you decide to push harder towards communism, the protests will intensify and eventually spill over. The Unions Representation Act is another such trigger that will cause protests.


Picture_us_communists_protests.JPG



Before the civil war breaks out, there is a “Point of No Return” after which it is merely a question of time until hostilities start. In the time between the Point of No Return and the actual start of the war, you’ll get a number of events telling you how the situation develops. These events have actual effects on how your position is like at the start of the war.


For example, if an event tells you that a state has mobilized the national guard, the revolter gets a fully-equipped and quite capable division when the war starts. These events aren’t intended to make the difference between winning and losing but to give the war a bit more flavor.


Once the war starts in the communist branch, it is not quite like a regular civil war. Instead of the country and the military splitting in half, it spawns a new tag (CSA). This allows us to do a few things, like removing CSA territories as cores for the US (which means that they, for example, create resistance when conquered into). Depending on how far down you’ve gone in the communist branch, a part of the country might also declare its neutrality during the war. You can still interact with this part through decisions, but so can the other side.


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Where in other countries, a civil war is something we must be very careful with to ensure that the country is not completely crippled by the time the real war starts, here, we want ACWII to be “the war” the US gets into and which merges into the greater World War. So there are limited objectives for you after you have won the American Theater of World War II, but you can push decolonization in Asia and intervene in the Chinese Civil War, while also working to reintegrate the breakaway states.


The Civil War in the fascist branch works along similar lines. You also get a branch leading down from America First that you can use even if you don’t want to go full fascist - a sort of flirting with fascism, allowing you, for example, to investigate the opposition through the House Committee of Un-American Activities. The Voter Registration Act ensures a comfortable majority in every election, but triggers a wave of protests.


If you decide to push even further and publicly ally with the Silver Legion, you will trigger additional protests that put the country on the road to civil war. Like in the communist branch, a number of events determine what the starting position is, but the roles are reversed. Where in the communist branch, a part of the country tries to break away, in the fascist branch the country revolts against your leadership and tries to oust you from power, forcing you to fall back into a powerbase you set up in advance (you set up a powerbase in advance, right?). Parts of the country will declare in support or in opposition, leading to different front lines.


With much of the professional military on the other side, you’ll have to rely on hastily-raised militias to hold the line until you can get back on your feet. You might have to cut some deals and appeal to the locals to get them to accept that you are on their side.


picture_us_honor_confederacy.JPG



Once you have won that war, you are left with a US that is now safely fascist, which means that you are ideally poised to conquer the rest of the world. So we decided we might as well give you the focus tree to do just that. The War Powers Act lessens the stability impact of being in a war, and you can take your first steps abroad as you politely ask Canada to give you the territory between you and the Alaskan border (the event may or may not be called “Vancouver Or War!”) and politely ask Cuba to please stop being independent.


You continue in this fashion until at last you demand global hegemony and give all other majors an ultimatum to either become puppets or go to war. Along the way, you will most likely have gobbled up all the small countries that otherwise make conquering the world such a pain.


That is all for today. Next week we will be back with another look into the naval side of things.



Rejected Titles:

You will want fries with this focus tree

Making the world safe for fascism

Josh Lyman Simulator 2018

All focus trees are bigger in Texas

Communism is the right of all sentient beings

While writing this dev diary a bald eagle sat down outside the window and cried. True story.

My favourite state borders are Colorado’s

My google search history now makes me unemployable in most of the US

Fight them over here so we don’t have to fight them over there

This dev diary may contain trace amounts of political commentary

There was supposed to be a monarchist path but the Americans in the office rebelled and threw away all the tea

Team America saves the day

“Three strikes and we start bombing” would dramatically improve Baseball as a sport

https://twitter.com/alflandonlover gets the love he deserves

Actually rejected title: Make America <literally anything> Again

“Five score and two days ago our game director brought forth, upon this world, a new DLC announcement, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all gamers like American Civil Wars.”
 
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@DominusNovus @Grand Historian

I have to agree with your points in this thread so far. I’m kind of disappointed that the USA will not have a non-aligned(populist) ideology and NF branc. Populism, during this period, had far stronger currents than communism in the US, often co-opting labor unions.

Don’t have much time right now to flesh out my thoughts, but taking the USA in this direction without a fleshed out Confederate States of America(or something like a Free States of America) having its own Focus Tree seems like a missed opportunity. I mean, really, if PDS would add something like that, USA will jump to the top of the popular countries list.
 
Still wish I could play friendly arms merchant, lend leasing to all sides using US convoys to do it.

The expanded war plans are nice and hopefully not ideology locked. I also like the expanded war department section. I think part of the issue people are having with the political part is that it seems a bit more rigid and oddly ordered than expected. I like the idea of the Congress mechanic, but I think some focus like things should be moved there instead of in the tree itself. I'd argue that even the full communist and fascist America should still "technically" be a democracy.

For the good of the Republic you must
(Democratic) make the world safe for Democracy
(Fascist) make the world safe for American Democracy
(Communist) make the world safe for the average American

Have to remember than any deviation from history would still have to be American in nature. Congress stays put, but you always have full support. The US stays a democracy in name, but: the normal maluses for democracies are removed; a relations penalty with democracies is imposed; a relations bonus to the corresponding ideology. Basically the US has all the effects of switching away from democratic without actually doing it.
 
There's no reason why the Confederacy is a legitimate option for the fascist route.
Did the devs actually say that the fascist option will end in a new CSA or is that focus just based on the fascists honoring the legacy of the Confederacy and white supremacy?
 
@DominusNovus @Grand Historian

I have to agree with your points in this thread so far. I’m kind of disappointed that the USA will not have a non-aligned(populist) ideology and NF branc. Populism, during this period, had far stronger currents than communism in the US, often co-opting labor unions.

Don’t have much time right now to flesh out my thoughts, but taking the USA in this direction without a fleshed out Confederate States of America(or something like a Free States of America) having its own Focus Tree seems like a missed opportunity. I mean, really, if PDS would add something like that, USA will jump to the top of the popular countries list.
I think we're all pretty surprised that there isn't a separate CSA focus tree... I mean I expected one since we saw the the initial trailer advertising the civil war.

It seems like a very weird design oversight to advertise the civil war and not have the CSA supposed to be a playable country with their own focus tree and artwork. Where are my gray confederate uniforms? :D

Manchukuo and the Chinese warlords got their own trees in WtT... it's strange that the CSA won't in MtG.

TBH I assumed the reason there were only two new trees being advertised was because the CSA would also be getting its own focus tree (and related content).
 
@podcat Could you post the most current DLC version of the United Kingdom NF tree? It appears from from the dev diary you did on them that you are already adding more trees to it :)
They added an alt-history path for the Imperial Federation that IRL was briefly discussed at the 1937 Imperial Conference but quickly dismissed (though proposals for a federation date back to the 19th century). It's already been posted I think in one of the recent dev diaries, 3-5 weeks ago.
 
I think we're all pretty surprised that there isn't a separate CSA focus tree... I mean I expected one since we saw the the initial trailer advertising the civil war.

It seems like a very weird design oversight to advertise the civil war and not have the CSA supposed to be a playable country with their own focus tree and artwork. Where are my gray confederate uniforms? :D

Manchukuo and the Chinese warlords got their own trees in WtT... it's strange that the CSA won't in MtG.

TBH I assumed the reason there were only two new trees being advertised was because the CSA would also be getting its own focus tree (and related content).
I know a lot of people are saying that PDX is pretty much doing Kaiserreich 2.0 with America, but if there's one thing that i really want them to just copy is that they need to make seperate focus trees for new states (not all of them) but the big states like USA. It just feels silly now that so many mods are doing this but not actual devs, yet.

I'm well aware designing new focus tree requires a lot of work and balancing but Confederates really should have their own version, hell even Russia gets a new focus tree in Kaiserreich if Bolsheviks manage to overthrow the republic.
 
Excellent diary. MAGA (Made America Great Again)

We are playing with the idea of giving them the US focus tree but with the fascist path pre-selected.

Just because Turtledove did it doesn't mean y'all have to assume the 2nd Confederacy would be fascist. Rebelling against an over-reaching and socialist Federal power grab by FDR does not have to end in one man rule, and certainly not with a central controlling government.

Just the opposite, a decentralized government, would be far more likely. Oligarchy with property requirements to vote would be a distinct possibility.
 
Looks great but like many others I would love to see the ability to play as the CSA...raise state militias into an army and try to hold off the USA and attempt a white peace like the first ACW. Good work though! Cant wait to find out what that naval radar is all about!
 
Im glad so many are happy with this detail. I however like to play a historical ww2 simulator. So, with that in mind...

1.with historical focus turned on, can we still count on the usa …..well...being the usa?

2. I have never played HOI3, would I be better off going back to that title?

thanks.

slo
 
Very thorough and excellent points. Would particularly like to see your thoughts on some of the concerns others of us have raised regarding some non-fascistic focuses being on the fascist chain.

Similar to the stuff like the commie section, the non-fascist foci on the Fascist section has its own problems. It is admitably even worse then the FDR since at least FDR doesn't require you going down the Socialist stuff. But once you get past the Labor - Relations act(Taft-Hartly) it seems to require the stuff from the America First which leads to the Wars Power act and allying with the Silver Legion. Which has all sorts of problems and implications.

It should be noted that The Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, were not strictly speaking conservative and liberal parties during this era. Compare the voting rights of a number of republican senators and repersentives to that of southern Democrats and you will see a better picture. Not for nothing that Alf Landon, Thomas Dewey, and Wendel Willkie came from the more Liberal side of the party. The conservative faction grew in strength principally as an opposition to the New Deal, but you had quite a number of republicans that were supporters of it. They might have thought it went to far in cases but they weren't opposed to it.

Then you have the whole War Powers act or in other words: do this for World Conquest. Which is kind of stupid. The republicans if they had assumed power likely would have kept FDR's Good Neighbor Policy, after all one of the leaders of the Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs was Nelson Rockefeller(yes, that Nelson Rockefeller). Also on a personal note: I HATE WORLD CONQUEST STUFF. Just want to get that part out there.

So yea, the non-democratic or even conservative democratic stuff has a myraid of problems. Sure the conservatives would oppose the New Deal, they did so historically. But they aren't going to go on a world conquest spree or ally themselves up with the Silver Legion. They would try to push for neutrality, but even then once Pearl Harbor happens, the gloves come off America.

The easist course of action would be to create several sections for American politics, one fascist, one commie, and two democratic. So that way you could have say the New Deal stuff(democratic) with potential to go really radical that might be shared with the Communist but wouldn't require you to be commie; like say the second bill of rights stuff. Could do the same for the Conservative Policies(the other democratic section) and some Fascism foci as well.

Mind you I also think that if there ever was a major update to Hearts of Iron4 in scope like Stellaris 2.0 or 2.2 that Focus trees in general should go poof. When you factor in the Congress Mechanic and decisions then one could handle a lot of this through events and decisions and it would be better off IMO. A lot of these acts could easily be decisions in Congress that feed off one another.
 
Similar to the stuff like the commie section, the non-fascist foci on the Fascist section has its own problems. It is admitably even worse then the FDR since at least FDR doesn't require you going down the Socialist stuff. But once you get past the Labor - Relations act(Taft-Hartly) it seems to require the stuff from the America First which leads to the Wars Power act and allying with the Silver Legion. Which has all sorts of problems and implications.

It should be noted that The Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, were not strictly speaking conservative and liberal parties during this era. Compare the voting rights of a number of republican senators and repersentives to that of southern Democrats and you will see a better picture. Not for nothing that Alf Landon, Thomas Dewey, and Wendel Willkie came from the more Liberal side of the party. The conservative faction grew in strength principally as an opposition to the New Deal, but you had quite a number of republicans that were supporters of it. They might have thought it went to far in cases but they weren't opposed to it.

Then you have the whole War Powers act or in other words: do this for World Conquest. Which is kind of stupid. The republicans if they had assumed power likely would have kept FDR's Good Neighbor Policy, after all one of the leaders of the Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs was Nelson Rockefeller(yes, that Nelson Rockefeller). Also on a personal note: I HATE WORLD CONQUEST STUFF. Just want to get that part out there.

So yea, the non-democratic or even conservative democratic stuff has a myraid of problems. Sure the conservatives would oppose the New Deal, they did so historically. But they aren't going to go on a world conquest spree or ally themselves up with the Silver Legion. They would try to push for neutrality, but even then once Pearl Harbor happens, the gloves come off America.

The easist course of action would be to create several sections for American politics, one fascist, one commie, and two democratic. So that way you could have say the New Deal stuff(democratic) with potential to go really radical that might be shared with the Communist but wouldn't require you to be commie; like say the second bill of rights stuff. Could do the same for the Conservative Policies(the other democratic section) and some Fascism foci as well.

Mind you I also think that if there ever was a major update to Hearts of Iron4 in scope like Stellaris 2.0 or 2.2 that Focus trees in general should go poof. When you factor in the Congress Mechanic and decisions then one could handle a lot of this through events and decisions and it would be better off IMO. A lot of these acts could easily be decisions in Congress that feed off one another.

I do think your basic alignment -1 fascist, 1 communist, and 2 democratic paths - would be the best path, with the slight caveat that the two democratic paths should allow some picking and choosing. You should be able to be super anti-New Deal,interventionist, and desegregationist, for example. Or any combination of those variables.
 
I'm a bit confused. Do you become the Confederacy in the Fascist path? I get what you'd be going for there, but it strikes me as a really awkward idea; most of the country, fascist or not, couldn't care less about Southern nationalism. Also, does the US only get to be democratic socialist/some sort of communist democracy, or can you actually become a straight up Communist dictatorship?

Also, is there any way (just out of curiosity) to play with Huey Long and/or Father Coughlin as a head of state or minister? My Fascist America fantasy is a Long dictatorship.

EDIT: I wouldn't expect most of this to be in the game, but I guess my dream America focus tree (that can be as big as possible) would have:

Democratic
- The historical route
- An anti-Communist alliance with the Fascists
- Fight both the Communists and the Fascists

Communist
- Communist revolt
- FDR goes way too far left and his government ends up being coopted by some of his more radical leaders
- Policy can be anti-democratic (anti-imperialist) or anti-fascist

Fascist
- Huey Long for fascism that's more like Integralism (less racist in nature)
- Father Coughlin for a Germany alliance (he was a major anti-Semite)
- Business Plot for an expansionist, Latin America and Asian-centered empire (the reign of terror of United Fruit)

As for the Confederates, I could see them being anything but Communist, and a New Afrika potentially forming too.
 
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I'm a bit confused. Do you become the Confederacy in the Fascist path? I get what you'd be going for there, but it strikes me as a really awkward idea; most of the country, fascist or not, couldn't care less about Southern nationalism. Also, does the US only get to be democratic socialist/some sort of communist democracy, or can you actually become a straight up Communist dictatorship?

Also, is there any way (just out of curiosity) to play with Huey Long and/or Father Coughlin as a head of state or minister? My Fascist America fantasy is a Long dictatorship.
Long died in September of 1935, so nope. I'm also a bit confused how this confederate thing is being incorporated.
 
Wow. Simply wow. that is looking great. Politics is coming to HoI.
Maybe when we get an espionage system there might also be the possibility of influencing politics.
Oh god with heavy politics added into game, diplomacy can be more detailed and espionage will be cream on top of cake!
 
Mind you I also think that if there ever was a major update to Hearts of Iron4 in scope like Stellaris 2.0 or 2.2 that Focus trees in general should go poof. When you factor in the Congress Mechanic and decisions then one could handle a lot of this through events and decisions and it would be better off IMO. A lot of these acts could easily be decisions in Congress that feed off one another.

This is what I've suggested in the Waking the Tiger dev diary announcement (if I remember correctly), but many people pushed the "Respectfully disagree" bottom and one responded with "But me love dem teh national focuses xDxD".
 
flags and map colour of the CSA
Slate grey and the Stars and Bars is the only way to go (or possibly Bonnie Blue if we dare to be different)
5D462DBD-020F-41F7-AD24-EA61268120B3.png

CSA or is that focus just based on the fascists honoring the legacy of the Confederacy and white supremacy?
Technically there is nothing inherently “white supremacist” in true Fascism. That’s one of the significant differences between Fascism and Nazism, but I digress.

I’m disappointed that there isn’t actually a focus to become the CSA (note: Communist USA should be renamed to USSA to avoid confusion and because it’s more commonly agreed as the hypothetical name of a Communist US). I was looking forward to being able to rise again as an Unaligned or even Democratic South. Shame that the closest you get will be Fascists promoting Southern nationalism to gain support.
 
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@podcat Generally, I like all the new possibilities you have now.
My only concern is, that it is now way harder to find the right "path" of getting to the "historical" ww2.

I often find myself in the situation where I realized, that I made the wrong choices and a historical ww2 wasn't possible anymore.

Maybe its only me, but I would appreciate, if there's a possibility to see the historical path or paths (even with different choices) to stick on.
This would definately reduce frustration:D
Yes please
I don't know much about WW2, so when I try to do a historic-ish playthrough, I don't really know what focus to take and in what order. That would definitely help!