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HoI4 Dev Diary - Combat Changes & Soviet Exiles

Greetings all,

Today we have two important topics to cover, for which we have reinstated @podcat with a battlefield commission, in order to detail our latest efforts to combat the width meta. In addition, Comrades @Bratyn and @Wrongwraith return for a dive into changes to the Soviet Exiles branch of the focus tree, based partly on community feedback.

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Hi everyone, @podcat here for a little guest appearance to tell you some more about the combat changes coming with Barbarossa. Back in the Combat and Stats Changes diary we outlined our quest to break down the 40 width meta and try to combat an “overall best division”.
In there we outlined several changes such as varying terrain width without easy multipliers to exploit (meaning you can still make optimums for particular terrains but not all), as well as reduced penalties to going over widths.

To expand on this we have changed how targeting and damage spreading works. One way 40 width (and also larger) divisions were stronger than smaller ones was how they could concentrate all of their damage into one target overpowering defense more easily. Targeting is now changed so that divisions will select targets up to its own width (so a 40w can fire on two 20w), but doing so spreads the damage over them relative to their width (and just to be clear, it’s not just for 40w. This applies to any widths that match up like 30+10 say).

Screenshot_21.png
?
‘tis mathematics innit

With these changes I can say that I am not really sure what the best meta is anymore. I think there are likely some optimums depending on your opponent and location (when balancing Org versus cost and piercing and such) but what that is I look forward to see you players try to figure out :)

We also have one more change that I think will have a pretty big impact. When deciding if a division can reinforce to the battle line inside combat we no longer check in order of the order they joined combat, but instead we will now pick randomly among all waiting divisions with their chance weighted by their reinforce chance. This means that to optimize reinforcing you no longer need to pull micro feats to get the right divisions in order, and can much more safely toss in your newly designed tanks to save the day in an ongoing combat. Also, don’t forget your signal companies, they should be more impactful now!
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Hi guys! This is @Bratyn and @Wrongwraith, part of the CD team on the Exiles branch for the Soviet Union. The last month has (other than lots and lots of keyboard-scrubbing...) seen some significant changes to the branch, and while we’ve kept much of the original design, we’ve also incorporated feedback from you guys, the community, and did some further iteration of our own on how the tree looks and works.

I believe we mentioned last time around that the civil war was hard if you chose to go down this path of the focus tree. Really hard. “Realistically hard” someone might argue. "Unwinnable", our testers might say. And while that might be to some degree realistic, it isn’t that fun. So we decided to make it _slightly_ less hard, while also introducing a few new elements to make the war even more interesting. Among other things, you now use Command Power to recruit units, rather than Political Power. And we have increased the amount of things you can get from countries supporting your cause.

We also added a few new focuses.

DD_pict_1_civil_war_tree.png


As you can see, the main structure of this section is similar to what it was before, with some minor changes. Maybe it should be stated at this point that most focuses are short focuses. The new ones that you can access before the war are these:

DD_pict_2_covert_operations.png

DD_pict_3_smr.png


Why do you need these? Well You really, really need to be the one triggering the war, and you want to ensure you have control of as much land and units as you possibly can. So you need to be juggling your PP’s and CP’s while keeping an eye on the Political Paranoia of the Soviet Union. If Stalin starts the war before you are ready, it will still be very hard to win. And in order to do the latter, you can use the Covert Operations focus to try and divert the attention away from you - by providing fake evidence that e.g. the army is plotting against the state. This will cause an inquiry into army affairs, and this in turn will both damage Stalin’s army, and lower the Paranoia level temporarily - allowing you to continue with your schemes. The other new focus here is intended to give you a better supply situation when the war breaks out. Fighting through Siberia can be tough. Extra so if you don't have a supply system that supports it. So why not get some more help from the Japanese, right?

But I suppose the most interesting thing is this set of Focuses:

DD_pict_4_breakaways.png


What do they do? Well, they give you different options in how to deal with nations that declared independence during the civil war…

DD_pict_5_uprising.png


A number of countries can declare independence during the war, especially if it drags on for too long. You then get the choice to see that as an act of war, or as a potential ally (for a while at least). Getting help from minor nations can be a good distraction, and something that can greatly reduce the time you need to fight against the Bolsheviks. However, being the empire -wanna be, you might not want that situation to last forever, hence the post war options.

DD_pict_6_uprising_map.png


DD_pict_7_breakaway_focuses_detail.png


This, together with a few other events that can happen during the war, should make the 2nd Russian Civil War winnable for the exiles, although still a challenge.

DD_pict_9_desertions.png


Some of the biggest criticism we received from you was the fact that the Western and Eastern expansion branches depended on whether you went down the Tsarist or Fascist branches. And rightly so! It made no sense to arbitrarily lock some of these options behind an ideology choice; a Fascist Russia would certainly have cause to wish to reconquer in the West, and a Tsarist Russia might well have even more reason to exact vengeance upon the Japanese than the Fascists would.

Making these two expansion paths available to both branches would, however, mean other focuses were required to continue to offer a unique identity to both of the ideological branches. Some people suggested more focuses geared to creating alliances, and we paired these with certain focuses intended to offer some flavor to the branches. This is the current state of the post-civil-war branches:

dev diary total branch new.png


The difference will be immediately apparent. The tree has ‘thickened’ quite a bit, with over 10 new focuses, and the branches against Sweden, the Baltics, and Finland on one side, and Japan on the other, are now available regardless of the political choice you made, clustered near the center of the branch. Nothing has changed in these focuses, except The Lonely Island, which, if you relied upon Japanese aid too much and thus were puppeted after the end of the civil war, converts into a “war for independence” focus.

dev diary lonely island independence.png


Let’s explore the newly-added focuses. On the Tsarist side, Capital of the Tsars moves the capital to St. Petersburg, and adds a bunch of goodies for the state itself. Reforge the Triple entente does what it says on the tin: reach out to the UK and France to re-establish the old alliance aimed squarely at Germany.

dev diary capital of the tsars.png


To emphasize old Tsarist Russia’s emphasis on being a ‘defender of the Slavs’, there’s yet another “Slavic Commitments” focus. If you elected to go down Third Rome, this will still give you an option to send guarantees to the various Slavic powers (along with some other bonuses), after which you may invade Romania (The Fate of Romania) to establish a land connection to the Balkan powers. And finally, “The Iron Wall off Russian Resolve” gives major bonuses to research and production cost, reliability, and armor for Super Heavy Tanks, incentivizing their use by offsetting the most detrimental aspect of them (their production cost), and thus offering a more unique playstyle for the Tsarists.

dev diary iron wall of russian resolve.png


On the Fascist side, Russian Corporate State offers some factories and industrial bonuses. There is a focus to create a Berlin-Moscow Axis, and follow-up focus Japanese Overtures allows for an alternative choice to simply avenging the war of 1905 by going to war with the Japanese: you can invite them into the new Axis and secure Russia’s flank that way.

dev diary japanese overtures.png


Eastern Expansion is now Fascist-only. After this, there is still the option of meddling in the Americas and, ultimately, declaring war on Canada and the USA for the old Russian colonial possessions on the continent. A second branch can be taken, however, offering wargoals on Afghanistan and Iran, and ultimately leading into Iraq, Turkey (if it hasn’t already been taken as the Third Rome), Syria (France), and India.

dev diary last break southward.png


These changes should offer a bit more identity to the Exiles branches, while also allowing both to fulfil the ‘basics’ of recovering Imperial Russian possessions in the West and avenging the war of 1905 in the East.

Finally, here’s some pictures of certain characters:


DD_pict_8_generals.png
dev diary tsar vladimir I.png
dev diary archpatriarch meletius.png


As usual, the tree is still under development, and even what you see here might not match what ends up being released :) See you next week for another dev diary!





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Because as everyone knows, warfare is the least political thing that has ever been conceived...

Trying to divorce politics from war is like trying to divorce the beach from the ocean, and tbh this game would be massively enriched by better political gameplay. Kaiserreich seems to have some good ideas on that front - like representing a nation's head of government and their cabinet as political advisors and more ideologies.
Hoi4 makes almost no attempt to simulate politics or political settlements. It is, first and foremost, a simulation of the actual mechanics of war. Everything else is kludged together and shoe-stringed into the system that exists to simulate the actual business of waging war.
 
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This is rather good update. A lot of concerns were addressed in sensible matter.
I have some suggestions in similar vein to what was already done here (simple, non-drastic change that improves content).

- Moving capital to St Petersburg probably wouldn't be done, either in-universe nor by the savvy player. It's not very defensible, IRL or in game. So, it's neither very immersive, nor a very good game mechanic. I can think of two ways to make this work better.
Option 1: Have focus for capital trigger an event that gives player choice, whether to move capital to Petrograd, or whether to strengthen Moscow instead, applying the same (or slightly weaker) bonuses to the latter.
Option 2: Block focus for those who don't own both Estonia and Finland (or at least Vyborg), to recognize how poor idea it would be to move capital so close to the borders of potentially hostile country.

Now, as for the Third Rome, the idea itself is rather interesting, but the weird focus on the memes that would apply better to Latin Church takes away from what could be unique experience. There are plenty ideas to take from that are actually rather grounded in Russian culture and history, no need to do a weird copy of Vatican transplanted into east.
Why Russia gets to have Papal States route before the Italy?

- Arch-patriarch makes no sense from POV of Russian Orthodox theology, but guy itself is fairly interesting. So, rather than crown Meletius tsar and ousting legitimate heir who was just restored, he should probably become something like "custodian of the throne" (and in-game leader), since "Vladimir is still young an unexperienced", think something like EU4 "clergy estate seizes power" - it doesn't turn government into theocracy, it just makes the existing one having to answer to the priests.

- Rather than have the path rename the country Third Rome, why not just Holy Russian Empire?

- Flag having yellow on white is criminal. Yes, I know there was kingdom of Jerusalem. Why not something like ordinary Russian flag with an Orthodox cross?

orto_rus_1.png
orto_rus_2.png
orto_rus_3.png


- Meletius died in 1946. For those whose gameplay will last that long, I think there could be his death event triggering around that date, and Vladimir formally taking power in country that nonetheless still has entrenched Orthodox church calling shots.

Final question: If Bermondt-Avalov doesn't end up king of Poland, will he be available as Russian general or field marshal?
 
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Dont give up, friend! Help is on its way!
 
We considered doing that, but we felt there was no need since Penal Batallions are far from being communist-specific. It should work flavor-wise regardless of the ideology you follow as SU/Russia.

However, I believe you made several proposals for focus flavor changes in the common branches when SU goes non-communist, and as I said in that thread there were really good ideas there, and some of them have been implemented into the game, such as:

View attachment 761017

So, thank you for your feedback!
Bit late to the thread, but does this focus mean you can have a focus change icon depending on ideology now?
 
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As to the modifier of Meletius, sholdnt it be "Defier of the Sun Goddess", if you have Japanese divinity of sun, which he refuse to bow, in your mind?
Amaterasu, the Japanese divinity of sun, and the alleged origin of the Imperial family, is generally thought to be female.
 
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just now found the time to comment on this and I want to thank you for listening to the community, the new focuses and the reconfiguration of the existing ones made this so much better, and of course the republics declaring independence was a very needed addition, can't wait to try them :)

the artwork is also top tier
 
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Except you are comparing Apples to Oranges.
The figures you list for Portugal include Reservists while the ones for the US Army only includes the Active Duty army forces, it does not include the US Marines, the National Guard, or the Reserve.

According to the US Army Center of Military History the totals on 1 July 1939 were:
Regular Army (Active): 189,867 (174k were Enlisted the rest Officers, 50k were deployed overseas)
National Guard: 200,000 (these are the part-time, "Weekend Warriors")
Reserves: 110,000 (these had been trained and fulfilled their service, but were subject to call up)

EDIT: So about 500k, so still lower than your "paper" number of 550k for Portugal, except we know the US could achieve their mobilization plans, and most serious military historians doubt that Portugal could have.

The plans at the time, called the Protective Mobilization Plan (PMP), were to have most of the Regular Army and National Guard (~400k) ready within 30 days of the President signing the order, increasing to 1,125,000 within 240 days.

550k included the reservists yes. But the real trained men were still more than the trained men the US had pre-1941 (in short, the Portuguese army had over 189k TRAINED men). And by trained we are pratically speaking about the permanent army in the field without another job. So not really comparing apples with oranges, lol. You are, though, not actually sure if you read what I wrote in order to reach that conclusion. The article itself states that the US was ranked 19th in the world, BEHIND Portugal. In short, this means in good english that Portugal was 18th, USA was 19th and Bulgaria was 20th. Which isn't even closely represented in-game as I showed with the previous numbers you quoted.

(and frankly, if the article states that the US army had 189k men and that they were behind Portugal in army numbers, that means obviously that the Portuguese army had more than 189k men... seriously... I don't even think or thought that this needed to be said)

"Most serious military historians" did make for a good joke though, "Most serious military historians" barely even study Portuguese military history during WW2 apart from that deal with the Azores (neutral country, did you know?), so most of the "experts" barely even know of the numbers that are widely unknown even inside Portugal.

I mean I don't even know why we are discussing this. I won't even get into details, but just the 5 fully trained and well equiped divisions had 100.000 men (in total). That is already more than what is present in the game. Just 5. In game, these 5 divisions ARE present, but they are at 30% strength, and barely even have 6k men (each) on them. Which makes me believe Paradox is actually aware of these facts, but they made Portugal weak on purpose, maybe for balancing issues, who knows.

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We could, of course, argue or not, about the 550.000 men (if Portugal could train and equip them or not), but for my own sanity, I will pass the oportunity. Still I will leave you with the following thought - if far poorer countries like:

Greece: mobilized 540k men
Hungary: mobilized 600k men
Bulgaria: mobilized 450k men
Finland: mobilized 700k men

Then, Portugal, with the 3rd or 4th biggest colonial empire at the time, could, definetely do at least as much. But of course people will disagree (stating MERELY their opinion) instead of numbers and facts, but such is the interesting place we call Internet.

EDITED: The Portuguese army was composed of 3 scales of mobilization, with the 1st being permanently on the field. Divide 550k by 3, and you easily obtain 183k at the very least, and we aren't even considerating colonial troops/garisons. From 1938 there are some papers stating that there was enough equipment for 10 or 11 divisions and about 66% of the 550k we spoke of, with a considerable lack of anti-tank equipment and artilery. We could argue if the equipment present was good or bad, but it did exist. The Portuguese army specifically bought large portions of Mauser 98k and Dreyse MG 13 for the "to be raised in case of war" divisions for example.
 
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And you're perfectly able to do this - just justify a wargoal for whatever you'd like to go to war for :) The reason the focuses are mutually-exclusive are because they give some other bonuses (which would be way too powerful if you got all of them), and they give custom cosmetic tags to Russia, and those cannot be active at the same time.
So, i've got a question now, yeah, after kinda one day, xD. Can we get core on Alaska region through both Romanov and Rodzaevsky paths? Can we get them as White Exiles, at all?
 
As white Russia relocates it's capital to St.Petersburg wouldn't it make more sense to call the alliance of Germany and white Russia the Berlin-Petersburg Axis instead of Berlin-Moscow Axis?
 
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@podcat

Regarding the change to combat width mechanics:

I would tend to think it's a brilliant idea.

Benefits I see:
1) More casualties in the war. Due to organization loss being less of a problem compared to HP, non-encirclement battles are likely to last longer and become more bloody.
2) Easier to withdraw in case you are losing the battle: currently you may not have enough "units" to cover all provinces behind your line, while post-update you have an incentive to have more divisions to maximize organization. This allows more successful strategic "Frontline" retreats.
3) No more "sudden breakthroughs" at speed 4 ruining the game for someone in MP. Defensive warfare is now way more viable.

Concerns:
1) More divisions: more lag. That's the only thing I am afraid of, that with more divisions the game will run slower.

Is there something planned by the devs that will try to address this?
 
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Really Nice changes to the exile tree. However will it be possible to recruit exiled white leaders who are currently generals in other nations? Mannerheim was a Russian monarchist and it sounds reasonable for him to become a general again in the new Imperial Russian army. And there is also a Czechoslovak general in the game who is Russian and also fought for the whites in the civil war, and it’s sounds logical to me that they would fight again for the whites.
 
Regarding the combat changes, before it's hopefully too late:

I would personally recommend removing reinforcement rate and replacing it with something else entirely: Coordination (long name Combined arms and army coordination)

Firstly: Why?
Relegating "Reinforcement rate" into a "stacking your for reinforcements deck card" does not do justice to the importance of communication within the CoC, utility of radio and communication equipment and can be micro-ed on the offense and will most likely be at worst annoying frustrating on the defense at times.

It also doesn't make sense that in a desperate defence a general would basically roll dice as to which reserves would go to the front line, sometimes picking the undermanned and undersupplied retreating mechanized division running from the province over (while I understand they can get caught out, I don't think that it would happen if forces can cover their entire combat width).

This proposed mechanic in my mind would also make high width divisions (at least to a degree) worth their longer training time, operational and supply cost.

Secondly: How would this work?
I thought to keep it simple yet moldable.
If multiple divisions are engaged, they suffer from a coordination penalty. All divions in a province fight, in weigthed order (and I think a good weight would be division speed or the highest coordination value, depending on implementation).
Arbitrarily I I'm going to plug a base coordination value of -50%, but can get buffed by doctrines, planning, national stability and radio equipment up to +50%. (while a sane number in practical terms would be +10% for most nations)
This could be or affect any/all of:
  1. straight modifier to the stats
  2. a incoming damage reduction
  3. increase to outgoing damage
  4. combat width
  5. division speed
  6. division combat deploy
  7. naval invade speed (might be a contender to replace that stat)
  8. planning speed
  9. can be used to increase/decrease received org dmg
  10. insert stat/-s I probably forgot here
Additionally, radio equipment would turn into an equipment specification type for all divisions with the following levels:
  1. None
  2. Division level communication equipment
  3. Brigade level communication equipment
  4. Fire team level communication equipment
Each level adds a cost of Support equipment (or a new radio equipment type) to the division at 2nd level, each brigade at 3rd level and a hefty amount more than 3rd level per brigade at 4th level.

The signal support company could:
  1. boost coordination further by a flat amount
  2. boost a division into the next communication level (adding a mythical levle 5)
  3. boost coordination of all in stack companies by a small amount - since it'd likely lower stats like org while being expensive it should not be OP to make 2 width divisons to boost this aburdly high.

Thirdly: Conditions?
I'm envisioning this with width constraints as I interpreted them. So If a 40 width A fights 5 8 widths B1-5 in 30 width terrain, then the 40 width fight at 75% (gives and takes 75% damage), while the B1-3 fight with full stats modified by coordination and B4 while fights at 75% modified by coordination.

Fourthly: Extras?
  1. This could be a better way to historically model lack of proper command and communication structures (*cough*, *cough*, Italy, France)
  2. Lack of supplies (support equipment, radios) affecting this modifier would work as a way to bypass a need for supply lack of supplies penalty, depending on implementation it could be removed as an arbitriary number
  3. Far cry idea, moves away from the simplicity: There could be stricter coordiantion penalties for multi nation fighting - while the allies could receive a modifier buffing it naturally, There could be a seperate coordination stat for each "ally", that measures how coordinated the nations are. It could also be measured by the length of time in a coalition, boosted by weargames.
  4. Combined arms doctrine could give a small coordination boost for each type of brigade in the unit (motorized, armored and infantry), finally giving a small reason to have some brigades with a motorized brigade along with armor, instead of making a homogenous template
  5. Espionage operation to lower coordination in a province - targeting radio equipment and communication lines
  6. This could have a tie in for air superiorty, with every eadio equipment improving detection and air superiority
  7. Replace "attack" and "defense" on core territory to "coordination" on core territory. It's be mechanically equall, most likely, but flavour wise would be a nice change
 
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Germany doesn't need a rework. Italy needs a rework. Finland needs a focus tree. Germany does not need communist LARPing. Once Finland and Italy are fixed and the minors get a once-over for all their trees we can put it in a Catholic Monarchy USA and a Communist Germany
Wtf you on about? I never said anything about a Catholic Monarchy USA? I also said I'd rather wait for the next DLC to get a Communist path. I also said that'd I'd rather wait for a German Rework DLC than get a rushed job. Germany will definitely get a rework. When? No idea. But Finland and Italy are more than able to be included in the DLC's for the rework. After all, it's not just one nation getting a rework at a time. Chill dude.
 
As white Russia relocates it's capital to St.Petersburg wouldn't it make more sense to call the alliance of Germany and white Russia the Berlin-Petersburg Axis instead of Berlin-Moscow Axis?
I do think that the fascist keeps Moscow as their capital, and only the monarchist path has St. Petersburg as the Capital
 
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With these combat mechanics and terrain width changes the number of templates will probably rise. Is feasible to add the possibility to filter the template list, maybe by name?
 
Why the only option for emperor is Vladimir?
First of all, his father still alive at the start of the game.
And what is more important, Vladimir was not undiscussable pretendent.

P.S. mestnichestvo still remains o_O T_T *facepalm*
 
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