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HoI4 Dev Diary - Combat Changes & Soviet Exiles

Greetings all,

Today we have two important topics to cover, for which we have reinstated @podcat with a battlefield commission, in order to detail our latest efforts to combat the width meta. In addition, Comrades @Bratyn and @Wrongwraith return for a dive into changes to the Soviet Exiles branch of the focus tree, based partly on community feedback.

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Hi everyone, @podcat here for a little guest appearance to tell you some more about the combat changes coming with Barbarossa. Back in the Combat and Stats Changes diary we outlined our quest to break down the 40 width meta and try to combat an “overall best division”.
In there we outlined several changes such as varying terrain width without easy multipliers to exploit (meaning you can still make optimums for particular terrains but not all), as well as reduced penalties to going over widths.

To expand on this we have changed how targeting and damage spreading works. One way 40 width (and also larger) divisions were stronger than smaller ones was how they could concentrate all of their damage into one target overpowering defense more easily. Targeting is now changed so that divisions will select targets up to its own width (so a 40w can fire on two 20w), but doing so spreads the damage over them relative to their width (and just to be clear, it’s not just for 40w. This applies to any widths that match up like 30+10 say).

Screenshot_21.png
?
‘tis mathematics innit

With these changes I can say that I am not really sure what the best meta is anymore. I think there are likely some optimums depending on your opponent and location (when balancing Org versus cost and piercing and such) but what that is I look forward to see you players try to figure out :)

We also have one more change that I think will have a pretty big impact. When deciding if a division can reinforce to the battle line inside combat we no longer check in order of the order they joined combat, but instead we will now pick randomly among all waiting divisions with their chance weighted by their reinforce chance. This means that to optimize reinforcing you no longer need to pull micro feats to get the right divisions in order, and can much more safely toss in your newly designed tanks to save the day in an ongoing combat. Also, don’t forget your signal companies, they should be more impactful now!
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Hi guys! This is @Bratyn and @Wrongwraith, part of the CD team on the Exiles branch for the Soviet Union. The last month has (other than lots and lots of keyboard-scrubbing...) seen some significant changes to the branch, and while we’ve kept much of the original design, we’ve also incorporated feedback from you guys, the community, and did some further iteration of our own on how the tree looks and works.

I believe we mentioned last time around that the civil war was hard if you chose to go down this path of the focus tree. Really hard. “Realistically hard” someone might argue. "Unwinnable", our testers might say. And while that might be to some degree realistic, it isn’t that fun. So we decided to make it _slightly_ less hard, while also introducing a few new elements to make the war even more interesting. Among other things, you now use Command Power to recruit units, rather than Political Power. And we have increased the amount of things you can get from countries supporting your cause.

We also added a few new focuses.

DD_pict_1_civil_war_tree.png


As you can see, the main structure of this section is similar to what it was before, with some minor changes. Maybe it should be stated at this point that most focuses are short focuses. The new ones that you can access before the war are these:

DD_pict_2_covert_operations.png

DD_pict_3_smr.png


Why do you need these? Well You really, really need to be the one triggering the war, and you want to ensure you have control of as much land and units as you possibly can. So you need to be juggling your PP’s and CP’s while keeping an eye on the Political Paranoia of the Soviet Union. If Stalin starts the war before you are ready, it will still be very hard to win. And in order to do the latter, you can use the Covert Operations focus to try and divert the attention away from you - by providing fake evidence that e.g. the army is plotting against the state. This will cause an inquiry into army affairs, and this in turn will both damage Stalin’s army, and lower the Paranoia level temporarily - allowing you to continue with your schemes. The other new focus here is intended to give you a better supply situation when the war breaks out. Fighting through Siberia can be tough. Extra so if you don't have a supply system that supports it. So why not get some more help from the Japanese, right?

But I suppose the most interesting thing is this set of Focuses:

DD_pict_4_breakaways.png


What do they do? Well, they give you different options in how to deal with nations that declared independence during the civil war…

DD_pict_5_uprising.png


A number of countries can declare independence during the war, especially if it drags on for too long. You then get the choice to see that as an act of war, or as a potential ally (for a while at least). Getting help from minor nations can be a good distraction, and something that can greatly reduce the time you need to fight against the Bolsheviks. However, being the empire -wanna be, you might not want that situation to last forever, hence the post war options.

DD_pict_6_uprising_map.png


DD_pict_7_breakaway_focuses_detail.png


This, together with a few other events that can happen during the war, should make the 2nd Russian Civil War winnable for the exiles, although still a challenge.

DD_pict_9_desertions.png


Some of the biggest criticism we received from you was the fact that the Western and Eastern expansion branches depended on whether you went down the Tsarist or Fascist branches. And rightly so! It made no sense to arbitrarily lock some of these options behind an ideology choice; a Fascist Russia would certainly have cause to wish to reconquer in the West, and a Tsarist Russia might well have even more reason to exact vengeance upon the Japanese than the Fascists would.

Making these two expansion paths available to both branches would, however, mean other focuses were required to continue to offer a unique identity to both of the ideological branches. Some people suggested more focuses geared to creating alliances, and we paired these with certain focuses intended to offer some flavor to the branches. This is the current state of the post-civil-war branches:

dev diary total branch new.png


The difference will be immediately apparent. The tree has ‘thickened’ quite a bit, with over 10 new focuses, and the branches against Sweden, the Baltics, and Finland on one side, and Japan on the other, are now available regardless of the political choice you made, clustered near the center of the branch. Nothing has changed in these focuses, except The Lonely Island, which, if you relied upon Japanese aid too much and thus were puppeted after the end of the civil war, converts into a “war for independence” focus.

dev diary lonely island independence.png


Let’s explore the newly-added focuses. On the Tsarist side, Capital of the Tsars moves the capital to St. Petersburg, and adds a bunch of goodies for the state itself. Reforge the Triple entente does what it says on the tin: reach out to the UK and France to re-establish the old alliance aimed squarely at Germany.

dev diary capital of the tsars.png


To emphasize old Tsarist Russia’s emphasis on being a ‘defender of the Slavs’, there’s yet another “Slavic Commitments” focus. If you elected to go down Third Rome, this will still give you an option to send guarantees to the various Slavic powers (along with some other bonuses), after which you may invade Romania (The Fate of Romania) to establish a land connection to the Balkan powers. And finally, “The Iron Wall off Russian Resolve” gives major bonuses to research and production cost, reliability, and armor for Super Heavy Tanks, incentivizing their use by offsetting the most detrimental aspect of them (their production cost), and thus offering a more unique playstyle for the Tsarists.

dev diary iron wall of russian resolve.png


On the Fascist side, Russian Corporate State offers some factories and industrial bonuses. There is a focus to create a Berlin-Moscow Axis, and follow-up focus Japanese Overtures allows for an alternative choice to simply avenging the war of 1905 by going to war with the Japanese: you can invite them into the new Axis and secure Russia’s flank that way.

dev diary japanese overtures.png


Eastern Expansion is now Fascist-only. After this, there is still the option of meddling in the Americas and, ultimately, declaring war on Canada and the USA for the old Russian colonial possessions on the continent. A second branch can be taken, however, offering wargoals on Afghanistan and Iran, and ultimately leading into Iraq, Turkey (if it hasn’t already been taken as the Third Rome), Syria (France), and India.

dev diary last break southward.png


These changes should offer a bit more identity to the Exiles branches, while also allowing both to fulfil the ‘basics’ of recovering Imperial Russian possessions in the West and avenging the war of 1905 in the East.

Finally, here’s some pictures of certain characters:


DD_pict_8_generals.png
dev diary tsar vladimir I.png
dev diary archpatriarch meletius.png


As usual, the tree is still under development, and even what you see here might not match what ends up being released :) See you next week for another dev diary!





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(Not being political here)

Please don't forget to set Armenian AI more aggressive towards Turkey & Azerbaijan.
and Azerbaijan AI more friendly to Turkey
and Turkish AI more friendly to Azerbaijan,

while both AI Turkey and Azerbaijan being aggressive towards Armenia.

I mean for better historical outcomes.
 
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Flag of Ukraine is in reverse so you should probably fix that. And before anyone says that I am aware of the fact that some people in 1917 preferred it the other way round but it was never the official flag and even back then the blue on top was the official and more popular flag.
 
So... If we win civil war as Whites and activate our democratic adviser... We can became democratic Russia and choose Triple Entente focus as well?

And will we have imperial ship names?
 
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>Picture of Ataturk
>mentions Armenia x Azeri
spicy

under that same idea, why don't the Turks get a decision to "finish the job"? and the Armenians to avenge the 1.5 million martyrs?
As I told I suggested it for better historical outcomes, in eu4 everyone knows there are modifiers that block some alliances from happening and there are some countries that have friendly modifiers that makes them easily ally.
HOI4 tries to stay far from historical diplomacy, so that's why they didn't add focus options which is understandable. But making AI "distrusted" by some modifier isn't something weird or "out of place".
 
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Not gonna lie, the most exciting part of this for me is the Super-Heavy Tank bonuses. Ever since HOI4 was released they have just been sitting there. Not ever worth it. The only nation that can reliably use them is America just for their industrial base and the fact they are absent from the war on the border. I do hope or would like to see earlier Super-Heavy tank research branching off of the Great-War Tank or the Heavy Tank. That way you could start building an army around them earlier on.

Not exactly true. I tried a few runs in the past to try their effectiveness, and Super Heavy Tanks can be effective if you rush Heavy Tanks early and apply 100% bonus and tech ahead of time, thus unlocking them far sooner. I remember using a fairly decent army of them combined with infantry since they are slow as damn and beating a Kaiserreich on vanilla HOI4 as Italy just before the Kaiser tried to assassinate Mussolini. It was epic really, Il Duce tanks rolling over the Kaiser who wanted to kill Il Duce.

Of course to spam them, you gotta be an early rusher and adquire industrial base quickly. I killed France by 1937 on that run, thus adquiring resources and industry fairly fast.

They are pretty good if you prefer the slow approach of nuking the enemy army to dust. The biggest problem is that they will consume tremendous amount of chromium, really. You need parts of the balkans (yugoslavia), turkey, those french islands on the pacific or some chromium rich provinces like those around Botswana, to make it viable.

But honestly, in most cases they are a luxury. Most armies can't pierce Heavy Tanks, so Super Heavies is a moot point in most cases. Better to invest elsewhere.

But I do agree with you, you should be able to research them right off Heavy I or the Great War Tank.
 
Some proposal: can you separate ship prefix from ship names? It's annoying when you should to rename ALL former USA/UK ships into new one. You can link ship prefix with country tag for example.
 
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Not sure about the addition done to the soviet Union. Generally I don't know why we went for fascism from the beginning and I liked the idea of a "unwinnable" playthrough, but I guess alt-history is already big enough and we're talking about a very VERY theoretical scenario. Guess I still don't understand why the fascists got chosen over the menshaviks, but alright.
Regarding Reinforce I do think that regarding reinforce rate the fastest division should be weighted over the random pick or should have a higher chance to get randomly picked. Maybe I misunderstood

Other than that amazing work!
Like the Meta changes to 40widths! It's gonna be amazing!
 
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I think it is worth renaming the national focus "reinstitute the mestnichestvo" into something else, because mestnichestvo in Russia was abolished in 1682, and in fact ceased to function even earlier. Its restoration in the middle of the 20th century would look too unrealistic and archaic.
 
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Really great of the team to have listened to feedback and incorporated some changes. It definitely looks to be for the better.

I did not at all expect the addition of nationalist uprisings in non-Russian territories, that's another great addition.

There's really only one disappointment; well, two, really, but there's primarily only one: For going fascist there is no alternative to the arch-patriarch. I'd like an alternative to 'level up' Rodzaevsky as Vozhd and get some cult of personality trait improvements and opt out of the Pope-Emperor. I think that would be much less silly than an Orthodox Pope-Emperor, and I would personally prefer that option every time, myself. I think a lot of other people would, too. Not saying that the Pope-Emperor should be removed, just give fascist Russia an alternative to it so that we aren't forced into choosing it.

The other thing I found odd is that fascist Russia is automatically roped into an alliance with Germany. I would have actually expected that there would be unavoidable antagonism with Germany for obvious reasons, Lebensraum and all that. Having that as an option is nice for some people, I guess, but I don't see an alliance with germany as being either realistic or, more importantly, fun. Moscow-Berlin Axis is a roflstomp as they liked to say years ago. There's no fun in it, to me at least. It'd be nice to see some alternative to it.

Poland has a really elaborate system for building a kind of 'fascist international', even if Russia doesn't get that, some kind of alternative would be nice rather than having the sole route available be the Moscow-Berlin Axis.
 
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And you're perfectly able to do this - just justify a wargoal for whatever you'd like to go to war for :) The reason the focuses are mutually-exclusive are because they give some other bonuses (which would be way too powerful if you got all of them), and they give custom cosmetic tags to Russia, and those cannot be active at the same time.
Oh, okay, thanks for an answer).
 
I have some questions regarding the core provinces in Russia in the new update. Will the Soviet Union have core provinces in Petsamo, Salla, Karelia, the Baltic States, Bukovina, Bessarabia, western Ukraine and Belarus, Carpathian Rus after their annexation? Will the Russian Empire be able to do this? Will it also be possible to receive a core provinces in Finland for the Russian Empire? Is it possible the annexation of Ukraine, Belarus and the Slavic states on the territory of Yugoslavia (if they suddenly gain independence) according to the decisions that the pan-Slavic focus opens? Will all the provinces of the core received by the Slavic countries be transferred (for example, if Bulgaria receives new core provinces, reintegrating central Macedonia and Thrace), divisions and generals when joining the Russian Empire just like with the British dominions in the commonwealth?
 
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Alright, I finally nailed down what sorts of questions I wanted to ask with regards to the combat changes. I'm going to revert to using game terms rather than mentally correcting 'division' into 'formation'. I'm also going to use numbers (1div, 2div, etc) for one side of theoretical combats, and letters (Adiv, Bdiv, etc) for the other side.

1. Is there anything forcing a division to target an unmolested division before selecting an enemy that has already been targeted by someone else? in a 2x40w v 4x20w example, would 1div that targets Adiv and Bdiv allow 2div to also target Adiv and Bdiv, or is there something forcing 2div to target Cdiv and Ddiv?

2. Is there an ordering where big divs target other big divs first? For example, in a 1x40+2x20 v 1x40+2x20, are the 40w encouraged to duke it out before engaging the smaller 20w?

3. If 1div was 40w and A/B/CDiv were 15w each, are the attacks from 1div split 1/3 each, or is there an order where the first target gets the full width it can, and then the next target gets the full 15, and then there is only 10w left of 1div, so despite Cdiv being 15w, it only gets the remaining 10w.

4. A combination of both the second and third questions. If the 40w is not encouraged to specifically target the 40w, and targets a 20w first but then chooses the 40w as its second target, does the 40w eat all of the attacks or is it an even 50/50 split between the two targets?

5. Can I get more details on what the reduced penalties for going over widths actually are, so I can make more accurate graphs?

6. With the reinforcement into combat changes, is there still only a single reinforcement check being made every hour?
 
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