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HOI4 Dev Diary - Exiled Governments

Welcome to another dev diary for Man the Guns. The expansion has 2 main themes: Naval and Democracies, and so far we have had dev diaries for USA and UK and today its time to continue the second theme by talking about how you can host governments in exile and turn them against their conquerors. We will also be doing some follow up on UK with Imperial Conferences.


Harboring Governments in Exile

Many nations overrun by the Axis would field at least a few small units of exiled forces, such as (but not limited to) the French, Greeks, Norwegians, Dutch, and even Czechs. These served not only in the Army, but also in the Air Force and the Navy. The most well-known, however, are probably the Polish. At their height they numbered almost 250,000 men, and served with distinction in France, Norway, North Africa, Normandy, and Northern Europe, while Polish pilots proved their mettle in the Battle for Britain, among others.
The main focus of this feature is to give extra power to democracies in that nations who are conquered by, say, Germany will be able to function from a host nation and lend their strength to them. Each government in exile has a certain amount of Legitimacy - essentially how acknowledged they are by governments in the world as the legitimate government. The higher the legitimacy, the more advantages you will get from a government in exile.

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As you reach each step on the scale the following things will be unlocked (some at more than one place):
  • Ability to train and deploy Exiled Veteran Divisions (more details below)
  • Ability to have Airwings with exiled manpower. These start out at a higher experience level right away.
  • Exiled Generals. These guys synergize well with exiled divisions.
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So ready for revenge that if this was animated you'd see that glorious mustasch quivering.

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Legitimacy is gained first before actually capitulating. The higher your warscore, the better your starting Legitimacy. If you just fold, transport all your divisions to safety or disband them, you won’t get much and the road to gaining more will be that much harder. Once you are actually in exile you gain legitimacy by helping in the fight. This both makes historical sense and means that players have a good reason to fight as hard as possible.

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Once a nation has capitulated and is exiled it can salvage some things. Depending on Legitimacy some of the stockpile may be spirited off and some divisions may escape (with severe equipment losses) and will appear in the host nation after a long while (presumably sneaking across the channel in small boats or on long detours etc). These divisions will be Exiled Veterans.

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An Exiled Veteran division generally has a better experience level and will get both a combat bonus when fighting the occupiers of its nation as well as an extra bonus when on its old core territory. So these divisions are quite precious and potent. They are trained in much the same way as colonial forces are for those that own Together for Victory and you get access to both their templates and your own:
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Playing an Exile

Playing in exile is something I think will be more popular in multiplayer than single player, because you are limiting yourself quite a bit, but for those who like a challenge we wanted to make sure it was possible and give you some of these advantages as well!

If your host is an AI it will be trying to be helpful in this case by passing over control of veteran divisions arriving. Exile Commanders will also be under your control. Because some exiles will have no land at all you will likely need to depend on the master for lend lease of equipment to arm your divisions with. If you are totally landless you will be getting a trickle of manpower based on your Legitimacy as well (Poland is likely in this position while Netherlands or France wouldn’t necessarily be). When you are an exiled nation you can keep track of your legitimacy on the country screen as well as bring up the more detailed view like the host nation can:

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Exiled nations also come with several new decisions to help them grow and to celebrate their achievements. We also plan for exiles of nations that don't fall normally, like Czechoslovakia to come into existence from decisions.
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Imperial Conferences

Hi! Bratyn here. In the thread for the British Focus Tree dev diary a lot of community feedback pointed out the glaring lack of the Imperial Conference as a potential ahistorical path. As I already mentioned in certain threads, this has now been rectified :)

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I have rearranged the Dominions development branch of the Reinforce the Empire path, and added three new focuses. After having developed Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand, it is now possible to kick off the [insertcurrentyearhere] Imperial Conference. Doing so will send a notification event to all parties involved (including yourself), which then activates the Imperial Conference decisions.

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This text has since been adjusted to properly locate the Conference in London!

However! Note that this conference will only last for 60 days, and so even though the “Hold the Imperial Conference” focus grants 120 political power, you should be prepared by having a sizeable amount of political power saved up in order to push through the motions you want during this timeframe. Considering the likelihood of the Dominions agreeing to your motions depends to a large degree on their opinion of you, you may also want to have prepared by improving relations with them before you kick off the conference, as you will likely not have time for this in the 60 days you are given. Finally, to make opinion actually matter, all positive opinions throughout the game have been cut in half, and on top of this you get a -100 opinion modifier with all your Dominions (and India) for the duration of the conference. This allows us to use the 0-100 range of opinion to calculate AI likelihood of accepting your proposals.

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The possible motions to make are the following:
  • Imperial Defense: Each Dominion that accepts gains a 10% production bonus for factories and dockyards for 365 days. Accepting costs them 25 political power. For each Dominion that accepts, the UK gets 3% production bonus for factories and dockyards (for a grand total of 15% bonus max, if all 5 accept) for 365 days.

  • Imperial Trade: Each Dominion that accepts is flipped to the Free Trade law (this making a larger amount of resources available for export), and the UK gets a +50 trade relations opinion modifier with them.

  • Imperial Economy: Each Dominion that accepts gains a 10% construction speed bonus to civilian and military factories, and dockyards, for 365 days. Accepting costs them 25 political power. For each Dominion that accepts, the UK gets 3% construction speed bonus to civilian and military factories, and dockyards (for a grand total of 15% bonus max, if all 5 accept) for 365 days.

  • Appeasement: Only available if the UK is not at war. Each Dominion that accepts gains 10% war support. Accepting costs them 25 political power. For each Dominion that accepts, the UK gets 3% war support.
In addition, Dominions that accept the previous four motions will also get 10 opinion with the UK per motion they accepted. This gives you a way to improve opinion other than simply improving relations. Each motion costs 50 political power to start. Of course, note that all values are subject to change based on testing.

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WIP event picture!

Each motion kicks off with a starting event for the UK, where the player can choose whether to roll the dice solely based on the Dominions’ opinion, or to invest various degrees of political power (currently 25 and 50) to influence the outcome. Influencing them will double and triple (respectively) the chance of them saying yes, but the only thing that will absolutely guarantee it is if they have 100 opinion with you.

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WIP event picture!

Finally, there is the Imperial Federation motion. This one is a bit different from the previous four, because it will not have effect unless at least Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand unanimously accept the motion. This costs 100 political power to start.

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WIP event picture!

India is a bit of a special case. They were not a Dominion, and so if you want their support you will have to first make them one. This is where the new “Indian Autonomy” focus comes in. Taking this will make the Raj a dominion, and also give them +0.5 autonomy gain for 2 years. If you do this before the Imperial Federation, the Raj may (following the same opinion restrictions as the other Dominions) accept the Federation proposal. If you do not grant them autonomy before triggering the Conference, they will always reject it.

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WIP event pictures!

If all five Dominions accepted, they then all receive a national spirit that reduces Autonomy by -3 per day. You will manually have to pay the PP to reduce their Autonomy levels all the way down to Integrated Puppet (and these TfV Autonomy levels have therefore been unlocked for MtG!), and once all of them are that Autonomy level, you can take the “Imperial Federation” focus. If India did NOT accept for whatever reason, but all other Dominions did, you can elect to either cancel the plans, or push through with the remaining Dominions and give independence for India. The reason for making this require a long process of autonomy reduction is to illustrate that integration is a long-term process, as well as to make this be a difficult (or at least slow) thing to achieve, due to how powerful it is. The idea is that it should only be possible to get towards the mid-late game. Currently, this takes roughly 3 years. Of course, again note that all values are subject to change based on testing, and especially the speed at which you can integrate them may well change (if anything, likely to be adjusted so that it can be done more quickly).

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WIP event picture!

Taking the “Imperial Federation” focus will do multiple things.
  • Canada, Australia, and New Zealand will have all units and army leaders transferred to the UK, they will be annexed, and all their core states will become core states of the UK.

  • South Africa will have all units and army leaders transferred to the UK, and they will be annexed, but, to illustrate cultural differences and lingering anti-British sentiment there, their core states will NOT become core states of the UK.

  • The British Raj, if they accepted, will have all units and army leaders transferred to the UK, and they will be annexed, but, to illustrate cultural differences, their core states will NOT become core states of the UK (also done to counteract the OPness of gaining full access to all Indian manpower, which even British Raj/India doesn’t get).

  • UK gets a new cosmetic tag with a new map color, name, and flag.

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WIP event picture!

Current names and flags for the Imperial Federation are as following:

Democratic: Commonwealth of Nations
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Fascism: The Empire
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Communism: Commonwealth of Peoples
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Neutrality: The Imperial Federation
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Right -hand one is if India is included.

Rejected Titles:

In the skies above the isle...

Brought to you by Game Devs in Swedish Exile

Defending Britain to the last Pole

Say [ZENSIERT] to your [ZENSIERT] Balls

More smiling Indian soldiers than you can shake a stick at!
 
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The problem with this is that Germany is almost never able to capitulate Norway. It should be available even if Norway has not capitulated in my opinion.

I agree. It's been adjusted :)

For events and decisions involving the British Empire, you should spell it as "Defence", with a C, since that is how it's spelt in English speaking countries that are not USA. Even British things during WW2 write "Defence".

"Commonwealth of Nations" with the modern Commonwealth flag is extremely stupid for a 1930s British Empire. All of the Dominions except for South Africa were extremely pro-Empire and considering that they had (and except for Canada still have) a Union Flag on their own flags and were all British citizens, it doesn't seem likely that upon bringing the empire closer together they would all just toss out the flag they all had and reject any notion of the empire. Things were different back then, so the game should reflect the time period it is set in. In Canada for example, Britain was home, and USA was seen as an economic and cultural threat that was posed to tear it away from Britain.

Essentially what I am trying to say is that the Union Flag should be used for the country and "Imperial" or "Empire" or some other variant of that should be included in the name. If you still want a different flag, perhaps just model it off of the Dominion flags and put the Union Flag in the corner and have some sort of imperial symbol or something in the middle.

Paradox games use American English, and we will use this for all localization. I may disagree with that personally, but it is company policy so it will happen :)

The Imperial Federation was unlikely, period, so I don't see the point of discussing which flag would have made most sense when the entire concept as a whole had virtually no chance of ever happening in the first place. The reason I picked that flag is because a Democratic unified empire would likely be most respecting of all its constituent parts, and because the British Commonwealth of Nations already existed as an entity at this time. The more Empire-focused flag is the unaligned one, as this one emphasizes the Empire aspect rather than the Federation aspect, and therefore is a variation on the Union flag.

@Bratyn Might I suggest that when India becomes free its color changes to an orange since I don't know why but it seems to fit a free India, also how is it going with the map changes? I would imagine slow since there is still plenty to do and you have plenty on your plate already.

Agreed, and done. Not sure which map changes you are referring to? :rolleyes:

Will Britsh Malaya also get annexed through the imperial conference decisions?

Yes. But they are not represented at the Conference, as they were not a Dominion.
 
I agree. It's been adjusted :)

(...)

Yes. But they are not represented at the Conference, as they were not a Dominion.
The Norway issue could be handled by an event, with the chance of success dependent on how much Norway has built up its military. If successfull, one German division should pop up in each of the major harbours in Norway.

Theoretically Malaya could be a dominion, if, say, the UK has imported and done much lend leasing from Malaya. Should they then be represented at the conference?
 
@Bratyn

The Imperial Federation stuff is looking very nice indeed, so great work! Thanks so much for your additional time & effort here - it is appreciated. :)

For India, as well as becoming a nice shade of orange (I agree with @RommelTheDesertFox here) I think there could perhaps be some kind of dominion flag? The historical Indian flag was for a republic, as India did not wish to remain a dominion and - along with Pakistan - adopted a republican constitution shortly after independence. I just think it would be nice if an independent democratic India had a proper cosmetic tag. This way you can differentiate between an India that breaks free after a civil war, and an India that is granted autonomy by the British.

Just an idea.
 
If you already introducing the idea of governments in exile. Then in the future it must be expanded by adding a mechanics to manage a full-fledged resistance movement on your occupied land. Like French Resistance, or Yugoslavian one or famous Polish Armia Krajowa (Home Army).
 
I agree that the Spanish Civil War needs revision, but I really don't think it should be in this expansion. It strikes me as something that really needs a dedicated module - maybe linked in with improving mechanisms for volunteers in foreign wars, arms dealing/smuggling and other general civil war related improvements. Doing that in this release would both dilute focus on the naval part of the game (which needs improvement, too!) and limit the focus available for a really good and revolutionary (sorry ;)) civil war system.

So - I counsel patience. I think the Spanish Civil War - and lots of issues surrounding and connected with it - does need a good review, but not now. If it were made a complete future expansion (maybe even just a smaller one than MtG) I think it could be awesome!


Isn't this already covered in the conqueror getting access to some of the conquered manpower? I would assume those are volunteers from the annexed lands, since giving weaponry to determined opponents seems like a bad idea... Are you thinking of the specific buffs for these units? Or different division structures?
Not only that but the air war quite visibly needs more work (without air generals there is just too much micro) and occupation/partisans could probably be improved as well. The Spanish Civil War has all of that so my bet is on this being the theme of the next (major) expansion.
 
What about the opposite side of governments of exile? When occupiers recruit legions from occupied nations/provinces?

Germany recruited specific legions from France, Flanders, Wallonia, Netherlands, Norway, Croatia, Bosnia, Ukraine, the Baltics, Russia (RONA/Vlassov's Army), and the Cossacks. Many of these nationalities reached division level as autonomous units in the W-SS or the Army. The core motivations for those who joined these units was nationalistic (for their regions to become independent from pre-war countries, like Belgium, Yugoslavia and the USSR) and/or the basic spirit of anti-communist "crusade" that existed in 1930's and the 1940's.

To be specific, i am not talking about the many independent eastern battalions ("Ostbatallione") raised by Germany in the East and assigned to German divisions in an ad-hoc base.

But there were still multiple legionary divisions raised from the nationalities i mentioned above, and i think this should have an equivalent mechanism in the game play.

Best Regards, guys.

Some of them were included in Waking the Tiger (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-diary-recap-episode.1073904/) using the decision system.
 
Will Ethiopia be able to be a government in exile? Historically Haile Selassie and Key membof the Royal Family and key Government officials were flown to London after fleeing their nation and stayed there until the emancipation of Ethiopia
 
*My first post but I'm a long-time player of paradox games and the HO series*

I think the Imperial conference is a fantastic idea. I think Australia and New Zealand should get the option to align towards the USA after 1942. After the fall of Hong Kong and Singapore the British Navy retreats to Ceylon and virtually leaves Australia and new Zealand to call on the USA for aid.

Australian Prime Minister John Curtin "I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with the United Kingdom…Australia can go and Britain can still hold on. We are, therefore, determined that Australia shall not go and we shall exert all our energies towards shaping of a plan, with the United States as its keystone, which will give our country some confidence of being able to hold out until the tide of battle swings against the enemy”.

What destroyed the British Empire wasn't WWII. It was American hegemony.

After 1937 the Imperial conference, it becomes the Commonwealth Prime Minister meetings, and they remain very important, until the UK entry into the EEC (thank god for Brexit).
Ireland prior to the early 1930s, were fully participating members of the British Dominions. Irish Prime Minister Cosgrave kept Ireland within the family of nations and Ireland only distanced itself following Valera victory in 1932. Ireland should have the option between launching a renewed civil war of pro-treaty and anti-treaty. Its worth reminding everyone that Ireland by itself chose home rule within the Empire over republicanism. Valera obstructed this accord.

The British Empire and Commonwealth didn't die or vanish in a single stroke. Or did it fall due to attrition of opposition towards democracy like the French (Vietnam and Algeria). The Anglo British Commonwealth died because it simply became irrelevant. Over the decades the British had less and less influence. The nail in the coffin was following 1982 when Canada scared of a Quebec referendum pressured the UK to changed the constitution (and the flag) removing the final British parliamentary link. I believe the game should follow a similar pattern, at least democratically.

Australia and New Zealand to this day remain British colonies. With more British people in Australia then in the entire European mainland. I believe regardless of whether or not the dominions are in or out of the British Empire, there should be a "positive factor" whereby the British nations have "anglo unity" or "shared heritage" trait. This should give a positive influence buff in relations.

Even in 2018, the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand are not in a legally binding alliance but considers each other family and united via culture, language, monarchy etc.

You only create alliances with people you don't trust. The Anglo people do trust each other because well, they're family and blood counts...

Another note: Many of the Commonwealth dominion naval ships were given by the UK. I believe this should be a option available vice versa. For example the UK may wish to give Australia, 20 destroyers to defend its coast against Japanese invasions rather then (historically) Australia begging the USA for aid and protection.

General Patton, was famous for his Anglo-racial desires. He nearly lost his job for suggesting the UK and America should create a Anglo-racial alliance to dominate post WWII. I think any Anglo-Nation that is fascist should get the option to try and create a Anglo-speaking federation.

I would love for HO4 to have something fun to do between 1945-50. It always seems to come down to the war of the last giants. USA v Soviet Union or the UK V the world... I would love tension and war to become less likely following the final victory. By the end of the Game, even though you may be at peace for a year. World tension remains far too high. Even the slightest small conflict pulls everyone into the war.

CANZUK is an organisation that I am involved with and it's been around for nearly a 100 years. It's a political and social movement across the Anglo nations that wishes to foster closer ties together. I believe this flag should be used if Canada forms the Federation. If Australia create the federation maybe have something Australian based for them? Kangaroo in the middle!
rIHxo1aKxO3xJgsLjLv7uuJjp6zRNBKeU64apEgG1Mc.png


I also think the Australia or Canada should get the option to from Canzuk. The same way other nations can form the EEC.


Many thanks, History student, Kaide.
 
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Government in exile it's only for democracies?

It make sense, but I hope in the future unique mechanics to rapresent Italian Social Republic situations and similar.
 
The Italian Social Republic wasn't a government in exile, as Mussolini hold nearly half of Italy.

Thank you, I know the history of my country. ;) (Yes, I know that being from a country doesn't mean you know it's history better, it's only a joke) I was only pointing out that I'm looking for a mechanic about supporting disgraced axis member. Also, even if the RSI was de jure in charge, de facto Germany was leading the military movements, Germany freed Mussolini from detainment, Germany fortified the lands controlled by RSI. De facto RSI was the fascists repairing behind the lines of the germans troops, who were controlling with hard power the italian territory, while another government under the King existed as co-belligerant within the allies, and the legitimacy of the state crumbled in all the country. Also after the 8 septmber 1943 (Cassibile Armistice) the armed forces of Italy crumbled in chaos (with people simply returing home, or in the best situation, returning under the king) so RSI had a very limited military power, using fascist irregulars instead of a true army in many cases, and Germany took the place as military force of the republic.

In game terms it's like when you cause a civil war in a country, splitting it in two factions, but with the governement of the fallen one fleeing behind allied troops. In the DD, the devs talked about exiled governments controlling some territory, for example the French Colonies. Clearly the situation of Italy it's a little different because RSI was "controlling" lands of the main country, and and not colonies, however it is also clear that RSI it's not a clean situation of government full in charge, but was a chaotic situation, with fascist fallen in disgrace and helped (and used) actively by the germans (Mussolini wrote about feeling RSI as only a puppet of Germany).

So, what I'm trying to say, it's that for sure the nature of "helping allied governments" in Axis can be very different (and in Italy we have a situation very complex, where you are helped but also very clearly despoiled), and I'm interested to see how they will deal with it in future DLCs of the game. Also considering was a core situation of the south front of the World War II :oops:
 
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Essentially what I am trying to say is that the Union Flag should be used for the country and "Imperial" or "Empire" or some other variant of that should be included in the name. If you still want a different flag, perhaps just model it off of the Dominion flags and put the Union Flag in the corner and have some sort of imperial symbol or something in the middle.
How about this one? :D
 
@PatrykCXXVIII

Keep putting the Union Flag in the top left canton of each flag, and see how many you can get.
 
Government in exile it's only for democracies?

It make sense, but I hope in the future unique mechanics to rapresent Italian Social Republic situations and similar.

One way to look at it:

Government in exile is for the Allied nations as
General farming is for the Axis nations.
The Gov-in-Ex feature balances the gameplay (?)

By the way, what is the "Italian Social Republic situations and similar" ? I need to learn more about that. :)