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HoI4 Dev Diary - France Rework

Bonjour! Today we will be talking about the upcoming rework of the French focus tree. At this point in development, not all the art is in, so some of the things you’ll see are still work in progress.

We are well aware that the France Focus Tree currently in the game is perhaps not the worst of the remaining vanilla trees, but we believe that reworking France allows us to better integrate some of the new features coming in the upcoming DLC. For that reason we have decided to split “the French Experience” (™ pending) across three weeks. Today we cover the base tree, next week we will be looking at the reowrk of the resistance and occupation system, and in two weeks we return to take a look at Free France and Vichy.

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While the basic French Focus Tree was good, we wanted to improve on it a bit. Specifically, a France that survived past about 1941 would find itself entirely out of focuses, so the new focus tree would have to be deeper. In addition, we wanted to have a more accurate representation of the many issues that impacted French policy-making in the period, and to have decisions you make come back to haunt you (“Short-term solutions cause long-term problems”).

We also wanted to give proper representation to the unusual state of affairs that existed between the Vichy government and the Fighting French under de Gaulle, but you’ll have to wait for a bit longer to see just what we have in store for them.

The French tree as it is currently in the game represents fairly well what has become the unofficial focus tree design philosophy: Separate branches for industry, the armed forces, politics and alternate ideologies. So the base structure should still look familiar.

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The Industry branch has been expanded by a system that I, in all humility, consider to be pretty clever: the “Invest in…” focuses give you building slots in a number of states in the area, with later focuses adding factories into each of the states previously invested in. That means the longer you wait in pulling the trigger on the Colonial/Civilian/Military Industry focuses, the bigger the payoff - but it comes later in the game. If you take all the investment focuses, you can get a whopping 18 civilian factories and 14 military factories in just three focuses (numbers are, of course, absolutely, 100%, final and won’t ever be changed for any reason).

In the political sphere, we decided not to introduce a fully new gameplay mechanic for France when we already have a perfectly functional stability and war support system that works fairly well in representing the internal politics of the Third Republic. To put it simply, you will have to tread a narrow line between raising your stability by lowering your war support and raising your war support by lowering your stability. Should your stability drop below 25% for too long, a civil war breaks out. To make matters worse, you have to contend with far-right and far-left groups taking to the streets in anger if you make decisions that they disagree with, potentially lowering your stability even further. You can ban these groups - at a stability penalty depending on their relative popularity, which might be difficult to recover from.

The threat of civil war is removed when you go to war with another country, and the political violence stops if you can get stability above 70% but it returns if stability drops below 50% without political action being taken to remove the causes.

And if all that wasn’t enough, France suffers from rather significant issues with manpower. The gruelling losses of the Great War had demographic effects down the line - fewer Frenchmen meaning fewer children being born, meaning fewer men reaching military age some 20 years after the war ended. This is represented by a national spirit reducing your recruitable population factor. Simply increasing your recruitment laws won’t save you, since you are now pulling workers away from their workbenches, causing a severe production penalty. You will have different ways of dealing with this issue, but expanding the citizenship and encouraging immigration might not be welcomed by everyone (the timescale of the game means you can’t make up the shortfall through new family policies).

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In better news, France will have a slightly bigger industrial base to play with to balance out these factors. The new diplomacy branch will also allow you to not just invite countries to the Little Entente, but to also invest in them and grant them some military factories, and later invite Britain and the Commonwealth to join your faction. It also allows you to exchange guarantees with the Soviets, or try to form a common faction with Italy. The so-called Stresa Front was already pretty much over and done in 1936, due to differences in opinion between Britain, France and Italy about the Italian-Ethopian border (mostly because Italy believed it shouldn’t exist). To revive that alliance, you’ll have to make some concessions and hand over some territory to Italy. If you can convince Britain to back you, it will make Italy even more likely to join you.

All ideologies get the option to intervene in the Spanish Civil War, but as you might expect for such a historically contentious topic, it comes with a stability penalty, which, in the worst case, can tip you over the edge into your own civil war.

Should you, for reasons passing understanding, not want to experience the historically accurate French experience, we have greatly deepened the alt-history focus trees. Starting with the formation of the Popular Front under Leon Blum (no relation), you can choose to invite the communists to the government (instead of simply having them tolerate you). From there you go on to implement more of the communist agenda, such as legal equality for women, economic centralization and propaganda to prepare the population for the inevitable revolution (we are, after all, talking about France). After you have forced the issue by essentially breaking up the temporary alliance with more moderate forces and having communists take power directly.

After the revolution you essentially have three choices: You can either dial back the revolutionary vigor and try to reconcile with the rest of the country to pursue a broad-front approach to fighting fascism, or you can double down and decide to spread the revolution by any means necessary. Some of the stuff in this tree dips into some new mechanics which aren’t quite ready yet.

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On the other side of the tree, you can either opt for a more conservative approach in the 1936 parliamentary elections, making Pierre Laval the Prime Minister of France. Much like with the Popular Front, you can stay democratic and reform the country with a more market-liberal approach, or you can forge an alliance with the far-right elements and topple the republican government to start the “National Regeneration”, imagined as a less radical version of the National Revolution attempted by the Vichy government. Once the disgustingly republican form of government is removed, you can choose between two main branches.

One, under Francois de la Rocque, has you form a Latin Entente with Spain, Portugal and Italy and later split up Africa into zones of control, with France taking most of the west and Italy taking the east of the continent. With de la Rocque representing a more independent version of an authoritarian France (whether or not he was a bona-fide fascist can certainly be debated, that he has the kind of military background and authoritarian mindset that other fascists had is, I believe, less controversial), the other branch is lead by Jacques Doriot, and entails coming to an understanding with fascist Germany. After agreeing to split the low countries between you and joining the axis, you can put some pressure on Belgium. You can either anschluss Wallonia or force the entirety of Belgium to become your puppet. Once this is accomplished, you remind them that puppets don’t get to have colonial territories right next to their master’s. Beyond this, you mostly tag along with the German strategy by opening up a second front in North Africa.

Finally, there are the Monarchists. French monarchism at the time was closely related to the political far-right (being anti-republican made the idea of a monarchy a logical rallying point), so it makes sense that they spin off from the reactionary branch. The idea behind this branch is that the continued political turmoil in the Republic, represented by continuously low stability (you have to be below 35% stability to take the first focus) has so disillusioned people that the time has come for a return to the kind of stable leadership a monarch provides. As such, you don’t immediately select a king - you first create the groundwork for a return to the monarchy by repealing the Law of Exile (which banned any pretender to the throne, or their heir, from setting foot on French soil) before picking one of three candidates (because having only one pretender is for the Boche!).

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The Orleanist candidate was perhaps the most moderate of the pretenders, ruling largely along the lines of a constitutional monarchy. As such, you focus heavily on social welfare and containing fascism - ironically, one of the first acts is to inform the arch-reactionary Action Francaise that they have served their purpose and will now no longer be needed. On the other end, the Bonapartist candidate has an ambitious program of reshuffling the borders of Europe and restore the family name. In the middle between the two are the Legitimists, which is a faction that split from the Orleanists in 1830 and which maintains that the Orleanist heir is not, in fact, the legitimate pretender to the throne. Through a number of dynastic events, the legitimate pretender to the throne of France, according to the Legitimists, is none other than the previously deposed King of Spain. As such, the obvious goal is to restore both his crowns to him, and potentially unite the two realms of France and Spain into a double monarchy (because that worked out so well for Austria-Hungary and Denmark-Norway).

Since the current French focus tree already has some (short) alternate ideology branches, these old branches will still be present if you don’t have the DLC, and replace the branches starting with “Invite Communist Ministers” and “Utilize the Leagues”, respectively.

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Finally, we also spent some time making sure France has the full lineup of design companies and some options in terms of naval designers.

That’s all for today. Next week we will talk about the rework of the Resistance and Occupation system coming with 1.8!
 
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France actually (well, presumably) getting Naval Dockyards out of its tree is already an upgrade. Before, it was one of the very few trees in the entire game that didn't get any Naval Dockyards - Warlords and Hungary being the other ones IIRC, and the latter gets +10% Dockyard output when getting coast. Even the landlocked Czechoslovakia got those if it ever gained a coastline!
Unfortunately, they changed the Czechoslovak dockyard focus since 1.6 so that now it gives naval exp instead of dockyards.:(
 
Hello,

Why France is the only country getting a malus to manpower from WWI by national spirit ( due to losses during the war )? Other belligerent of this war should have one, no? A malus depending on the proportion of war losses on total population.
 
Hello,

Why France is the only country getting a malus to manpower from WWI by national spirit ( due to losses during the war )? Other belligerent of this war should have one, no? A malus depending on the proportion of war losses on total population.

France was one of the winners in 1918, but the victory came with a heavy cost. The French Army nearly collapsed in 1917-18 after heavy losses, and capital punishments was used to prevent it, leading to bitterness among soldiers against their commanders. Some historians say that the French national spirit after WWI was like if they had lost the war, not won it. They also feared a repetition of WWI, and invested heavily on fortifications, not on mobile warfare.

Other countries did not act like France. Not even Germany, a bitter looser, whom the French still feared after victory.
 
No returning Elsaß-Lothringen to Germany? While Hitler would've likely compromised on it in return for an alliance, what about him coming back for it after winning in the East against Russia? Though I guess this would be harder to implement well, particularly in those games where the world has gone totally off the rails.

I don't see any scenario where France would renounce what it got back after WWI at the cost of an immense sacrifice of men, ressources, industrial capacity, money.... Even under German occupation the Vichy regime never formally recognized any kind of retrocession of Alsace-Moselle to the German Reich, Germany just "took it" during the occupation.

France was one of the winners in 1918, but the victory came with a heavy cost. The French Army nearly collapsed in 1917-18 after heavy losses, and capital punishments was used to prevent it, leading to bitterness among soldiers against their commanders. Some historians say that the French national spirit after WWI was like if they had lost the war, not won it. They also feared a repetition of WWI, and invested heavily on fortifications, not on mobile warfare.

I don't mean to start a controversy here, but recent historical research tend to show that the 1917 mutinies are kinda overestimated. The soldiers mostly asked for better life conditions and not to be thrown away in meaningless offensives. The mutinies essentially consisted in soldiers refusing to assault enemy lines, but they were no significant desertion and none refused to defend the line when assaulted. When Pétain took over, improved the everyday life of the soldiers and "promised" them they would not be sacrificed in vain, "I'm waiting for the Americans and the tanks", things got back in order. In the end, only 49 death penalties were executed. The French army executed less soldiers than Germany. As for the soldier's bitterness against their commanders, it was widely spread among veterans from all countries.
 
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France was one of the winners in 1918, but the victory came with a heavy cost. The French Army nearly collapsed in 1917-18 after heavy losses, and capital punishments was used to prevent it, leading to bitterness among soldiers against their commanders. Some historians say that the French national spirit after WWI was like if they had lost the war, not won it. They also feared a repetition of WWI, and invested heavily on fortifications, not on mobile warfare.

Other countries did not act like France. Not even Germany, a bitter looser, whom the French still feared after victory.

Thanks for awnsering, but i think you are missing the point.

The national spirit is due to losses during the war. But its not the only country to have losses during war :
France : 1,4 M
Germany : 2 M
Russia : 1,8 M
etc...

So why France is the only country to have a modifier to manpower?
 
Thanks for awnsering, but i think you are missing the point.

The national spirit is due to losses during the war. But its not the only country to have losses during war :
etc...
So why France is the only country to have a modifier to manpower?

Two points among others:

demographics: the French birth rate was far lower in France than in most European countries, and WWI casualties were higher among the one having more children: peasants. Some villages lost more than 50% of their young male population, families were the land had been transmitted from fathers to sons for generations lost all their heirs. The post war "boom" was more limited than in other countries.
In 1914 France had roughly 40 millions inhabitants, in 1940 France had roughly 40 millions inhabitants but they were much more immigrants and the population was a lot older than it was 30 years before.

Pacifism: As victors, the French did not want to go to war again, they had nothing to gain from a war but save a status quo. The older ones knew too much what the war meant: death, destruction, masses of refugees... Northern France had been a battlefield during 4 years. The young ones did not dream of being soldiers ready to give their blood for the motherland or the Republic. The III Republic was far less solid than it was before WWI.
 
I don't see any scenario where France would renounce what it got back after WWI at the cost of an immense sacrifice of men, ressources, industrial capacity, money....

Doesn't mean Germany shouldn't be able to negotiate for/demand it regardless of France's ideology and allegiance, especially after victory in the East.
 
The national spirit is due to losses during the war. But its not the only country to have losses during war :
France : 1,4 M
Germany : 2 M
Russia : 1,8 M
etc...

So why France is the only country to have a modifier to manpower?
Britain has a debuff to manpower, but the main point is also that France was devastated after the war despite the fact they were victorious they did not wanted another war and because of that they had issues with conscriptions and army was in a really bad state.

Germany was also facing the issues with concriptions, their army was reduced to 100.000 men with no navy and airforce. However all of that changed when Hitler came to power and started breaking Treaty of Versailles, not only Wehrmacht was financed and expanded but when Germany began their expansion more people became motivated to join the army especially the youth. I don't have to go into Russia, manpower is one of the things they never had issues with.
 
Thanks for awnsering, but i think you are missing the point.

The national spirit is due to losses during the war. But its not the only country to have losses during war :
France : 1,4 M
Germany : 2 M
Russia : 1,8 M
etc...

So why France is the only country to have a modifier to manpower?
UK has the modifier "the war to end all wars", Hungary has Triatnon, Netherlands has pacifism...
 
I think it's awesome that we can release German states, but can you please sort out that border gore in central Germany? I saw someone suggesting the addition of Frankfurt and Hessen, but perhaps a redrawing of internal German borders would also be in order.

I also thinke that Schleswig-Holstein and Bavaria have colours too similar to France and Austria respectively, especially if you consider that the latter borders Austria.

Other than that I really love the idea of being able to Balkanise other nations. Perhaps in some distant future where Austria is actually the one to reform Austria-Hungary through foci, we could see a similar breaking up of Italy.
 
True, but I think the majority of people are far interested in the alternative paths of the focus tree than industry/navy/army stuff. Paradox knows this so that's why they lock it behind a paywall including many other features like: ship designing, admiral and general traits and skills, naval mines, a Chinese focus tree, ect. Most of these features should already be included in the base game. Meaning that if you want to have the TRUE experience you have to buy the DLC. It's really scummy IMO.
This has been PDXs DLC policy for a decade and nobody forces you to buy it.
 
It's the price for having regular updates and new content for the game. How PDX is supposed to pay their dev team ? I'm happy the money I put in DLCs is used to improve the game I'm playing, even if I'm not always satisfied with the rythm of it or the choices made.

By the way you can still buy the DLC on sales, those happen fairly often. There's one right now for the game and all DLCs except MtG and the Axis armor pack.

Plus, I don't know how long you have played the game, but many of us here spent 1000+ hours on it. The game time/money spent ratio is fairly good compared to titles with shorter lifetimes.
 
I realize I am late to the forum, I am in Japan at the moment and just getting to this discussion. @podcat: Should the old school naval tree include carriers? Shouldn't the Young School have the carrier foci? I mean it seems old school would be focused on Battleships and surface combat where the young school would be focused on Carriers and Submarines.