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HoI4 Dev Diary - France Rework

Bonjour! Today we will be talking about the upcoming rework of the French focus tree. At this point in development, not all the art is in, so some of the things you’ll see are still work in progress.

We are well aware that the France Focus Tree currently in the game is perhaps not the worst of the remaining vanilla trees, but we believe that reworking France allows us to better integrate some of the new features coming in the upcoming DLC. For that reason we have decided to split “the French Experience” (™ pending) across three weeks. Today we cover the base tree, next week we will be looking at the reowrk of the resistance and occupation system, and in two weeks we return to take a look at Free France and Vichy.

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While the basic French Focus Tree was good, we wanted to improve on it a bit. Specifically, a France that survived past about 1941 would find itself entirely out of focuses, so the new focus tree would have to be deeper. In addition, we wanted to have a more accurate representation of the many issues that impacted French policy-making in the period, and to have decisions you make come back to haunt you (“Short-term solutions cause long-term problems”).

We also wanted to give proper representation to the unusual state of affairs that existed between the Vichy government and the Fighting French under de Gaulle, but you’ll have to wait for a bit longer to see just what we have in store for them.

The French tree as it is currently in the game represents fairly well what has become the unofficial focus tree design philosophy: Separate branches for industry, the armed forces, politics and alternate ideologies. So the base structure should still look familiar.

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The Industry branch has been expanded by a system that I, in all humility, consider to be pretty clever: the “Invest in…” focuses give you building slots in a number of states in the area, with later focuses adding factories into each of the states previously invested in. That means the longer you wait in pulling the trigger on the Colonial/Civilian/Military Industry focuses, the bigger the payoff - but it comes later in the game. If you take all the investment focuses, you can get a whopping 18 civilian factories and 14 military factories in just three focuses (numbers are, of course, absolutely, 100%, final and won’t ever be changed for any reason).

In the political sphere, we decided not to introduce a fully new gameplay mechanic for France when we already have a perfectly functional stability and war support system that works fairly well in representing the internal politics of the Third Republic. To put it simply, you will have to tread a narrow line between raising your stability by lowering your war support and raising your war support by lowering your stability. Should your stability drop below 25% for too long, a civil war breaks out. To make matters worse, you have to contend with far-right and far-left groups taking to the streets in anger if you make decisions that they disagree with, potentially lowering your stability even further. You can ban these groups - at a stability penalty depending on their relative popularity, which might be difficult to recover from.

The threat of civil war is removed when you go to war with another country, and the political violence stops if you can get stability above 70% but it returns if stability drops below 50% without political action being taken to remove the causes.

And if all that wasn’t enough, France suffers from rather significant issues with manpower. The gruelling losses of the Great War had demographic effects down the line - fewer Frenchmen meaning fewer children being born, meaning fewer men reaching military age some 20 years after the war ended. This is represented by a national spirit reducing your recruitable population factor. Simply increasing your recruitment laws won’t save you, since you are now pulling workers away from their workbenches, causing a severe production penalty. You will have different ways of dealing with this issue, but expanding the citizenship and encouraging immigration might not be welcomed by everyone (the timescale of the game means you can’t make up the shortfall through new family policies).

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In better news, France will have a slightly bigger industrial base to play with to balance out these factors. The new diplomacy branch will also allow you to not just invite countries to the Little Entente, but to also invest in them and grant them some military factories, and later invite Britain and the Commonwealth to join your faction. It also allows you to exchange guarantees with the Soviets, or try to form a common faction with Italy. The so-called Stresa Front was already pretty much over and done in 1936, due to differences in opinion between Britain, France and Italy about the Italian-Ethopian border (mostly because Italy believed it shouldn’t exist). To revive that alliance, you’ll have to make some concessions and hand over some territory to Italy. If you can convince Britain to back you, it will make Italy even more likely to join you.

All ideologies get the option to intervene in the Spanish Civil War, but as you might expect for such a historically contentious topic, it comes with a stability penalty, which, in the worst case, can tip you over the edge into your own civil war.

Should you, for reasons passing understanding, not want to experience the historically accurate French experience, we have greatly deepened the alt-history focus trees. Starting with the formation of the Popular Front under Leon Blum (no relation), you can choose to invite the communists to the government (instead of simply having them tolerate you). From there you go on to implement more of the communist agenda, such as legal equality for women, economic centralization and propaganda to prepare the population for the inevitable revolution (we are, after all, talking about France). After you have forced the issue by essentially breaking up the temporary alliance with more moderate forces and having communists take power directly.

After the revolution you essentially have three choices: You can either dial back the revolutionary vigor and try to reconcile with the rest of the country to pursue a broad-front approach to fighting fascism, or you can double down and decide to spread the revolution by any means necessary. Some of the stuff in this tree dips into some new mechanics which aren’t quite ready yet.

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On the other side of the tree, you can either opt for a more conservative approach in the 1936 parliamentary elections, making Pierre Laval the Prime Minister of France. Much like with the Popular Front, you can stay democratic and reform the country with a more market-liberal approach, or you can forge an alliance with the far-right elements and topple the republican government to start the “National Regeneration”, imagined as a less radical version of the National Revolution attempted by the Vichy government. Once the disgustingly republican form of government is removed, you can choose between two main branches.

One, under Francois de la Rocque, has you form a Latin Entente with Spain, Portugal and Italy and later split up Africa into zones of control, with France taking most of the west and Italy taking the east of the continent. With de la Rocque representing a more independent version of an authoritarian France (whether or not he was a bona-fide fascist can certainly be debated, that he has the kind of military background and authoritarian mindset that other fascists had is, I believe, less controversial), the other branch is lead by Jacques Doriot, and entails coming to an understanding with fascist Germany. After agreeing to split the low countries between you and joining the axis, you can put some pressure on Belgium. You can either anschluss Wallonia or force the entirety of Belgium to become your puppet. Once this is accomplished, you remind them that puppets don’t get to have colonial territories right next to their master’s. Beyond this, you mostly tag along with the German strategy by opening up a second front in North Africa.

Finally, there are the Monarchists. French monarchism at the time was closely related to the political far-right (being anti-republican made the idea of a monarchy a logical rallying point), so it makes sense that they spin off from the reactionary branch. The idea behind this branch is that the continued political turmoil in the Republic, represented by continuously low stability (you have to be below 35% stability to take the first focus) has so disillusioned people that the time has come for a return to the kind of stable leadership a monarch provides. As such, you don’t immediately select a king - you first create the groundwork for a return to the monarchy by repealing the Law of Exile (which banned any pretender to the throne, or their heir, from setting foot on French soil) before picking one of three candidates (because having only one pretender is for the Boche!).

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The Orleanist candidate was perhaps the most moderate of the pretenders, ruling largely along the lines of a constitutional monarchy. As such, you focus heavily on social welfare and containing fascism - ironically, one of the first acts is to inform the arch-reactionary Action Francaise that they have served their purpose and will now no longer be needed. On the other end, the Bonapartist candidate has an ambitious program of reshuffling the borders of Europe and restore the family name. In the middle between the two are the Legitimists, which is a faction that split from the Orleanists in 1830 and which maintains that the Orleanist heir is not, in fact, the legitimate pretender to the throne. Through a number of dynastic events, the legitimate pretender to the throne of France, according to the Legitimists, is none other than the previously deposed King of Spain. As such, the obvious goal is to restore both his crowns to him, and potentially unite the two realms of France and Spain into a double monarchy (because that worked out so well for Austria-Hungary and Denmark-Norway).

Since the current French focus tree already has some (short) alternate ideology branches, these old branches will still be present if you don’t have the DLC, and replace the branches starting with “Invite Communist Ministers” and “Utilize the Leagues”, respectively.

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Finally, we also spent some time making sure France has the full lineup of design companies and some options in terms of naval designers.

That’s all for today. Next week we will talk about the rework of the Resistance and Occupation system coming with 1.8!
 
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Will there be an option to "Enforce Versailles" if Germany backs down from the Rhineland challenge? In real life, the original plan was to have the entire border demilitarized; perhaps this could be a punishment for attempting to break the treaty?

Truth be said, the option to keep Germany out of the Rhineland is actually pretty good. But yeah having something harsher could be an option, I just wonder which penalties it should give.

 
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Truth be said, the option to keep Germany out of the Rhineland is actually pretty good. But yeah having something harsher could be an option, I just wonder which penalties it should give.
I think some decrase in the overall stability but i don't think that it should be an outright civil war.
 
Obviously, the one that everyone expected in this DLC, and now it will be postponed for a long time: we do not know when France will leave DLC + one year for a new one - these are poor, totally ignored USSR .

I mean, if USSR got an update, that leaves Italy and France in their piss poor states. So either way, there would be unhappiness.
 
Wonderful! I will certainly love going down the historical focus path (while not falling like what actually happened) and going monarchist! Vive la France!
 
I've played a good amount of hours in the last month.

France 1936 is really boring in vanilla right now. boring events with unions, stability, you can't even help Spain.

France 1939 is actually better, you are in war pretty quickly, you know where Germans could attack, and have the naval war with Italy.

France Kaiserreich is the best, but well...

What I see in this DD is not that good for vanilla.
 
Are the devs currently competing to see who can make the widest focus tree for European Great Powers? And if so, who wins: Britain, France, or Germany?
 
I hope they keep it the way it is, but instead manage larger nations to handle it better instead of a blanket change to conscription. Otherwise, Minor nations suffer the most.

I don't see that being a problem. In fact, it could control division spam. As it is now, once you change the conscription law past a certain point you get a penalty no matter how much of the eligible manpower is actually used, so might as well use as much as you can. If you get penalties for conscripting past a certain point (say, a percent over the normal unemployment rate of manpower in service or as casualties), and those penalties scaled for each half percent or so, then there would be an incentive to be way more efficient with your divisions. Women in the workforce would obviously increase the threshold you can reach before those penalties apply.

Further, there's no way this would make minor nations "suffer the most" since it would apply equally to all nations as a percentage of population, calculated as normal from core and non-core states.
 
I don't see that being a problem. In fact, it could control division spam. As it is now, once you change the conscription law past a certain point you get a penalty no matter how much of the eligible manpower is actually used, so might as well use as much as you can. If you get penalties for conscripting past a certain point (say, a percent over the normal unemployment rate of manpower in service or as casualties), and those penalties scaled for each half percent or so, then there would be an incentive to be way more efficient with your divisions. Women in the workforce would obviously increase the threshold you can reach before those penalties apply.

Further, there's no way this would make minor nations "suffer the most" since it would apply equally to all nations as a percentage of population, calculated as normal from core and non-core states.
I don't know. I generaly thinking that all conscription and mobilisation system should be reworked. Red Army wasn't mobilise in one day and so wasn't wehrmacht. Both Armies had significant numbers of Reserve formations That means soldiers that went throght training and was send to reserves after it. Reserves are always mobilised when the time is right to support "regulars" soldiers that serves during the war time. That is why I am no content with current system and i would love to see it expanded to all nations not only to Communists or fascists but also to democratic ones and neutral ones. Because mobilisation system and extension rework of ground combat in general is needed. My opinion.
 
I don't know. I generaly thinking that all conscription and mobilisation system should be reworked. Red Army wasn't mobilise in one day and so wasn't wehrmacht. Both Armies had significant numbers of Reserve formations That means soldiers that went throght training and was send to reserves after it. Reserves are always mobilised when the time is right to support "regulars" soldiers that serves during the war time. That is why I am no content with current system and i would love to see it expanded to all nations not only to Communists or fascists but also to democratic ones and neutral ones. Because mobilisation system and extension rework of ground combat in general is needed. My opinion.

You should read what I wrote again. We're not disagreeing. The current system does not represent reserve formations at all (unless you count early deployed formations). It "conscripts" everyone into the manpower pool but you still have to train divisions from that pool. I want a rework as well as you do, which was the point of my post.
 
You should read what I wrote again. We're not disagreeing. The current system does not represent reserve formations at all (unless you count early deployed formations). It "conscripts" everyone into the manpower pool but you still have to train divisions from that pool. I want a rework as well as you do, which was the point of my post.
Sorry guy but you always feeled "negativ" on this site so i responded without reading of your post. They should also buff the AI a little bit especially the Soviet one. Because when Soviets got eaten by germany there is no sense of playing other nations cause they will not be able to fend off the germans.
 
Sorry guy but you always feeled "negativ" on this site so i responded without reading of your post. They should also buff the AI a little bit especially the Soviet one. Because when Soviets got eaten by germany there is no sense of playing other nations cause they will not be able to fend off the germans.

I'm sorry you have that impression of me, if you want to PM me about it you can. As to the rest of your post, absolutely. I hope that, in the patch, Paradox updates the AI of other nations to the same level as Germany's AI.
 
I'm sorry you have that impression of me, if you want to PM me about it you can. As to the rest of your post, absolutely. I hope that, in the patch, Paradox updates the AI of other nations to the same level as Germany's AI.
Yeah i hope that then we along with this Tank rework and more effort put on reserve soldiers would make a solid roleplaying of the WWT. And what do you think about my idea of playing as Himmler in German Civil war? Because it could be great.
USSR should be next. By the way I have a marvelous idea for immersive german rework. So I have played german campaining lately and when i was doing a Oppose Hitler i thought. Why not to give the Waffen SS some flavour with it. It is assured that they would suport nazi goverment. So maybe something like this. Himmler assasinates hiter and simply takes the power of the "Real Germany" with it's own focus tree to make an even more evil and wicked German Reich called "Ordenstadt Germania" or something like that with Waffen SS as Leader of Germany and with some crazy occultist stuff. The Focus Tree should revolve around Scandinavian Countries and primaly "Germanic" states of Europe. Like Austria Switzerland, Netherland and parts of Belgium to creat german super state with all states mentioned above and have claims on Burgundy in France where Himmler was said to have "his" state after the war. With waffen ss roaming around. I think this should be fun.
The party should be called something like this (or be given some wicked occultist name like thule order or something like that) SS-Führungshauptamt
 
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This looks fun, are we going to be able to keep the popular front togeather under Blum? is there a chance of the Massilia escaping to provide an alternative civilian leadership for free france under say Georges Mandel?

As for the Spain Tree, any chance we could get make left wing Clarlism a thing, it would be early (Clarlos Hugo was like 9 at the end of the spanish civil war) but if it was late enough down the tree it wouldn't be that much sillier than a third french empire.
 
Cheers for the DD Archangel and the extra info Podcat, Tres Bon :D. The new focus tree look tops, with plenty of ways to play. I'm not all up on the history of French politics, but there looks to be a heap of interesting material in there :).

Most interesting, of course, is a reference to the Richelieus :D. Ships in this class fled Metropolitan France to escape the Germans (Jean Bart, still incomplete, temporarily grounded and was also hit by a German bomb during the process - a tough journey for the crew aboard her at the time!), then were attacked by the British (Richelieu at Dakar) and Americans (Jean Bart at Casablanca), before being refitted in the US (Richelieu) and serving with the British Eastern Fleet, bombarding Japanese positions and defending against attacks by Japanese aircraft. I suspect the only class of battleships that could claim to have been attacked by German, British, American and Japanese aircraft!

Here's Jean Bart in Casablanca in November 1942, after she'd been hit by 16in shells from USS Massachusetts.

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In addition, we wanted to have a more accurate representation of the many issues that impacted French policy-making in the period, and to have decisions you make come back to haunt you (“Short-term solutions cause long-term problems”).

This is super-cool, looking forward to seeing how this works - potential for great tension between a 'later, greater' France and just surviving in the first place.

We also wanted to give proper representation to the unusual state of affairs that existed between the Vichy government and the Fighting French under de Gaulle, but you’ll have to wait for a bit longer to see just what we have in store for them.

Intriguing :cool: A better representation of Vichy in the game would definitely be a good thing, although also appreciate it's pretty tricky - good luck, am sure you'll come up with something quality :).

(numbers are, of course, absolutely, 100%, final and won’t ever be changed for any reason).

This has been noted and a filing will be made with the Swedish Consumer Affairs agency if, for any reason, they do :p.

To revive that alliance, you’ll have to make some concessions and hand over some territory to Italy. If you can convince Britain to back you, it will make Italy even more likely to join you.

Ooooh, intriguing, love the alt-history angle on this :D.

before picking one of three candidates

Because there clearly wasn't enough replayability in the tree already - super-cool :cool:
 
(...) in two weeks we return to take a look at Free France and Vichy.
Looking forward to knowing whether or not a mechanism will be created, allowing the whole French Empire (Africa, Levant, Madagascar, Indochina, French West Indies...) to join de Gaulle's Free France against Pétain's Armistice after the Appeal of 18 June 1940, ie giving the Free France the Empire as land (with Colonial troops...). IRL only a few territories did join Free France. It would make an interesting alternate history giving de Gaule more autonomy and power during 1940-44. In other words, it'd create the alternative of an Appeal of 18 June fully followed by all the French soldiers stil free, being in UK or in the French Empire. The whole Empire would keep on fighting in June 1940.

As Gervase Philips wrote : "In the opening phase of Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union the following year, the Red Army suffered nearly 5m casualties, including 2.5m who surrendered. The Russians also lost 600,000 square miles of territory. Yet, as Charles De Gaulle observed to Stalin, in the aftermath of this colossal defeat, the Soviets still had 5,000 miles of Eurasia into which they could retreat. The French did not lack courage in 1940; they lacked space."

It is using the Empire as this space.

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I guess, in that case, German might try to invade South of France immediately in June 1940 as they diid in November 1942 in reaction to Operation Torch when the Allied took over North Africa. Thus Vichy woulld not last, I guess. Vichy was an indirect way for the German to control the Empire. No Empire to control, no Vichy ? At least, Vichy would be fragile with South of France as its only territory and less legitimate.

No battle of Mers el-Kebir as the French Fleet there would have joined Free France. The French aircraft carrier Béarn in Martinique would also join Free France. Port of the fleet at Toulon might have too.
 
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