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HoI4 Dev Diary - ¡No Pasaran! - Republican Spain Focus Tree

Hola everyone, and welcome to yet another dev diary on the upcoming DLC for HoI4, where we’ll be talking about the second entirely new focus tree: Republican Spain.

Last week we talked a little bit about the design intent for Spain as a whole - so today we will move straight on to the interesting stuff ;)

Obligatory Disclaimer:

This is still a work-in-progress, and much of the art, systems and balancing is/are not yet finished! You guys know the drill :)

Republican Spain Starting Situation

rep_spain.jpg

The starting position for Republican Spain is, naturally, the same as that for the Nationalists. They begin with the same 4 spirits, signifying the influence of Carlism, the Military’s disloyalty, and the political violence and strikes that are escalating in the initial half of 1936 (see our previous dev diary for more information on these).

Dev Diary initial spirits.png


The same initial choice is present at the start of the game, but instead of selecting A Great Spain, we will now go with The Popular Front.

Dev Diary initial choice.png


The Popular Front was a loose alliance of political parties that were only really united in their opposition of Fascism. The idea of a Popular Front was formulated by Stalin in the mid-1930s, suggesting that the rapid growth of Fascism required a more unified response than Communism alone could provide. Effectively, it gave permission to subordinate Communist parties to band together with less extreme socialist parties, and even outright bourgeois parties, solely to combat Fascism in national politics. In Spain, the Popular Front that opposed the Fascist/Traditionalist CEDA (Spanish Confederation of Autonomous Rights - sometimes called the “Nationalist Front”) consisted of a variety of liberal, socialist, and communist parties, the most important of which (for the purposes of this diary) are the Communist Party of Spain (PCE), Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification (POUM), and the Republican Left (IR). This coalition was also supported by regional nationalists and the Anarchist Trade Unions CNT/FAI. This coalition paid off, and despite massive resources and an overwhelming election campaign by the CEDA, the Popular Front won the 1936 Spanish elections.

This victory was to be short-lived, however. Unbeknownst to the Republicans, in the aftermath of the failed elections the CEDA would hand over their sizeable campaign chest to the plotting military leaders to finance a rebellion, and political violence from both sides would escalate in the coming months. As with the Nationalist side, this is represented by various decisions and missions. The sole distinction is the change in perspective. As all state garrisons are initially fully controlled by the Republican side anyway (they all begin with a Nationalist control of None), the garrison control decisions are unavailable until the Nationalist side has begun contesting Republican control in any location. From that point on, it becomes possible to attempt to flip them back.

Dev Diary pre civil war decisions.png


A second point that sets the Republicans apart from their Nationalist adversaries are the nature of their focuses. The full pre-Civil War path for the Nationalists has a total duration of 210 days to complete, which means that, as long as a player continuously takes focuses, they are guaranteed to finish the whole path before the civil can start, even at the soonest start date. Not so for the Republicans. Republican pre-Civil War focuses (after the initial choice) last twice as long as their adversaries’, resulting in a total duration of 385 days to fully complete this path (therefore requiring the civil war to be delayed until after January 20, 1937). This should immediately make it obvious why it is advantageous for the Nationalists to begin the civil war as soon as possible - this will ensure the Republicans will only have time to complete their first two focuses. And as the impact of the Republican focuses progressively increases, this vastly weakens the initial position for the Republicans, relative to the Nationalists.

Dev Diary initial path.png


  • Securing the Guardia de Asalto or Guardia Civil gives either a few trained units, or double the number of untrained units (respectively) at the start of the civil war. Whichever the player chooses, the Nationalists get the opposite reward.
  • Train the Union Youth gives 5 trained units at the start of the civil war, as well as other bonuses.
  • Enlarging the Weapon Caches refers to the weapon caches that were secreted away ever since the Asturias Miners’ Revolt, and lie ready for use to this day. It is the first focus that will not be available to the Republicans if the Nationalists manage to achieve their goal of starting the civil war near its historical start date. While normally the equipment is split 50-50 between the two sides at the start of the civil war, this focus sways this to (currently) 80-20 in favor of the Republicans.
  • Distribute Arms to the People refers to various calls from prominent politicians and groups for the government to start issuing weapons to regular citizens, as it began to become obvious that the Military could not be trusted. This focus gives 10 untrained divisions at the start of the civil war, as well as other bonuses.
  • Disband the Army is the finishing focus in the Republicans’ preparations for the civil war. It is the ‘nuclear option’, where the government outright disbands the entire army and attempts to purge it of disloyal elements. However, though it will hand the initiative to the government, the various plotting leaders will not go easily and, likely will elect to rise up rather than be imprisoned. Accordingly, this focus will immediately start the civil war when completed. While the civil war normally has a flat 50-50 distribution of the nation’s pre-Civil War armed forces between the two sides, this focus increases this to (currently) an 80-20 split in favor of the Republicans. It also provides a large chunk of Political Power. However, with the loyalty of the military so severely tainted, the government will immediately disband their portion of this pre-Civil War military. This is something that occurs regardless of whether you take the focus or not (if the focus is not taken, this step is taken in the Civil War start event - regardless of when it starts), and so the focus mainly serves to greatly weaken the Nationalist side’s starting position.
Dev Diary disband the army.png


As the Civil War starts, the Republican side begins with all states that do not have Total Nationalist garrison control. However, states where the Nationalists have more control than the Republicans will spawn more Nationalist troops, making it likely that these will be lost soon afterwards. In addition, the Carlism Spirit is no longer relevant for the Republicans from this point on, and is removed, while a new Spirit Disbanded Army is added (again, regardless of whether Disband the Army as a focus is taken or not), representing the (quite frankly) disastrous impact the disbanding of the army historically had on the first months of the Republican war effort. Various focuses in the different branches diminish and remove this Spirit. Beyond this, the same Offensives decisions are available to the Republicans, as are available to the Nationalists (see more information about this again in our previous dev diary).

The Republican faction begins the civil war as Democratic, but as a whole it is even more internally divided than the Nationalists. Not three, but four different Republican factions vie for control of post-Civil War Spain, and this fight for supremacy will likely result into internal fracturing and outright violence even during the Civil War.


Republican (Democratic) Branch

The Second Republic at the start of the Civil War struggled to defend itself against the rebellion, while also maintaining cohesion and singularity of purpose within the faction itself. On the one hand, the communist and anarchist militias that supported the Popular Front played a key role in preventing the outright success of the initial coup attempt in the first place, and they were invaluable to the Republican war effort in the opening months of the Civil War, when the government was in the process of recreating a new army after disbanding the old. On the other hand, these groups also had wildly differing viewpoints on how the post-Civil War society should be structured, and idealism and fanaticism on all sides could easily bloom into violence. Historically, major influence came from the Soviet Union, which provided the Republic with much-needed weapons and equipment, but also meddled extensively in internal affairs, attempting to root out any Communists who might be critical of Stalin’s leadership. Ultimately, this would serve to completely undermine the war effort, resulting in the virtual elimination of two of the Front’s four (broadly-speaking) distinct groups as active participants in the Civil War, not by Nationalist doing, but by their own hands.

Dev Diary democratic civil war branch.png


One of the major issues facing the Democratic government of the Second Republic involves the recreation of a proper army, reducing reliance on idealistic and undisciplined militias that is represented in the Disbanded Army Spirit. Others deal with stemming the flow of the Nationalist advance, fortifying the various cities and towns in their path, and especially fortifying the Republican foothold in the Basque Country (if this is controlled at the Civil War’s start). But above all, the single biggest threat facing the government in the short term is the inevitable uprising of the Anarchist and Independent Communist militias (always represented as Anarchists if this uprising occurs from the Democratic/Stalinist perspective), as Stalinist meddling and manipulations will eventually break down all remnants of trust within these groups and the government. This uprising may be delayed through the Anti-Fascist Unity focus and the decisions it unlocks, but these can only delay it somewhat, and never prevent it. They are only intended as a desperate measure if you really cannot afford the uprising right then. Just as with the Falangist and Carlists paths we discussed last week, a focus Crush the Revolution exists that will immediately trigger the civil-war-within-the-civil-war and provide a temporary combat bonus against them.

Dev Diary three-way civil war.png


Together with Relocate the Gold Reserves, crushing the Anarchists and Independent Communists is a requirement for opening up the possibility of much larger Soviet aid than initially offered. This aid consists of various combat modifiers, tech bonuses, increased Volunteer caps for the Soviet Union, construction bonuses, and even tech sharing. It also opens up for a powerful Soviet Aid post-Civil War recovery branch. While powerful, as all this aid comes at a price, however… Stalinist control over the government will increase, and while moving the Gold Reserves abroad may keep them out of the hands of the Nationalists, it will not keep them safe from foreign seizure… Going down this path will result in the Second Republic being puppeted by the Soviet Union upon the conclusion of the civil war, and they will be unlikely to release their control over the country willingly…

Dev Diary soviet aid branch.png



Regardless of whether the player decides to pursue this aid, they will need to manage the influence of the Stalinists on their own government. It is possible to maintain true to the Democratic principles on which the Second Republic was based, but this will come at the cost of combat penalties that may well prove to be problematic during the Civil War - the Communists were an integral part of the anti-Fascist fight, after all. However, staying true to your Democratic foundations will allow you to eventually subvert Soviet control even if you pursued Soviet aid previously and were puppeted as a result. This finally opens up into a branch where, now that the Fascists have been defeated, Spain may fight a final War of Independence against the Communists and the Soviet Union, to finally earn their deserved freedom. In this, they may either seek membership of the Allies, or strike a pragmatic Deal with the Devil and request military aid from those who have experience in fighting the Soviets - the very same people who opposed them during the Civil War: Germany and Italy.

Dev Diary war of independence.png


It is also possible to give in to the Stalinist pressure, and focus on defeating Fascism, even at the cost of Democratic principles. If this option is selected, the government will switch to Communist, and a future War of Independence becomes unavailable. Instead, it will become possible to Appeal for Increased Autonomy (on the Stalinist side), becoming a full-fledged member of the Comintern rather than a puppet. Finally, remaining focuses for the Democratic branch focus on rebuilding their army and navy, and preparing for a global Anti-Fascist Crusade.

Dev Diary democratic finisher branch.png



Stalinist (Communist) Branch

The Stalinist Communists were the Communist Party of Spain (PCE), and are referred to as such because of their loyalty to the Stalinist Communist doctrine. Their branch shares a start with that of the other Communist faction that we will deal with later, but splits up already within a handful of focuses. Historically, they shared the outlook of the Government, in that both it and the Stalinists were more concerned with defeating the Fascists and maintaining the cohesion of their coalition rather than pushing for a social revolution as the other groups did. In the Focus Tree this is represented by many points of contact between the two branches.

Dev Diary stalinist civil war branch.png


Main points of interest during the civil war for the Stalinists branch relate to Stalin’s Popular Front strategy. Rather than alienate other classes, these must be incorporated into the fight against Fascism first, and re-educated later, when the frontlines have stabilized. A notable exception to this is the clergy, as anti-clericalism is a core component of the Republic’s values. Church riches must instead be confiscated and used to finance the fight against the Nationalists, even if this will send the clergy into the arms of the Nationalists. Next, concessions must be obtained from the Republican government, at first with ministerial positions, but soon enough full control of the war effort must be demanded. And finally, just as with the Democratic branch, the recalcitrant independently-minded Anarchists and Communists must be eliminated for the good of the Republican cause as a whole.

Dev Diary red bulwark in the west.png



For the Stalinists, Soviet Aid is much more of a no-brainer. Yes, you will get puppeted, but many of your strongest focuses tie in with this branch anyway, and there is always the Appeal for Increase Autonomy. Post-Civil War, the branch focuses heavily on fortifying the country, strengthening it as a bulwark from which to wage a two-front war with the Fascist nations lodged between Spain and the Soviet Union, should it come to that. Finally, focuses allow for the conquest of Portugal, the supporting of French Communists, and exacting vengeance on all nations who dared send Volunteers to the Nationalists during the Civil War.

Dev Diary stalinist finisher branch.png



Independent Communist (Communist) Branch

The Independent Communists represent the POUM, a second Communist party in Spain that broke with both the Trotskyist and Stalinist Communist doctrines, opposing the latter heavily, and was a member of the “International Revolutionary Marxist Centre”, also called the “London Bureau” (nicknamed the 3½ International); a grouping of similar independently-minded Communist parties from various countries. Notably, in the Civil War George Orwell would fight with POUM militias, and the way the Stalinists undermined, manipulated, and repressed the party would greatly impact his thinking and later writings. Historically, this repression culminated in the May Days, a period of 5 days in May 1937 where actual street fighting occurred between the Stalinist Communists and the Government on the one hand, and the POUM and Anarchists on the other. After this, the Anarchists would be increasingly divided internally and its influence on the Civil War would wane, and the POUM would soon be outlawed altogether.

Dev Diary poum civil war branch.png


As the POUM, the major antagonist, other than the Nationalists, are the Stalinists. Early on steps must be taken to curtail Stalinist influence and interference, maintaining the party’s independence and putting a stop to the indiscriminate political assassinations perpetrated by the NKVD. International Brigades provides a steadily ticking manpower pool for the duration of the Civil War, aiding their cause somewhat. Unlike the Stalinists, the purpose of the POUM is social revolution, and so the Class War must be pursued. The fact that the Government opposes this and increasingly attempts to crack down on them means that eventually the step must be taken to Seize the Gold Reserves and use these to finance a full-blown uprising along with the Anarchists, to enable the Revolution to flourish.

Dev Diry seize the gold reserves.png


Post-Civil War parts of the tree focus on industrial and military improvements, as well as the formation of a People’s Fleet. Some industrial focuses are shared with the Anarchists, and some with the Stalinists. Unify the London Bureau will create a unique faction and invite all Communist nations that are not in a faction (or are Soviet Union or a Communist Mexico led by Trotsky). Further focuses generate wargoals against Fascist nations in Europe, nations led by Stalin or Trotsky, and finally the focuses to conquer Portugal and Avenge Foreign Interference are shared with the Stalinists.

Dev Diary poum finisher focuses.png



Anarchist (Unaligned) Branch

The Anarchists are the final available branch for the Republican side. This branch represents the various autonomous communes that rose up in the area of Aragon and Catalonia during the civil war, and in which the fight against Fascism was most clearly accompanied by the Spanish Revolution. These communes organized themselves under a single Regional Defense Council of Aragon, and in the territory controlled by them collectivization of the workplace became a common theme. However, the independence with which they conducted themselves was a perpetual thorn in the eyes of the government and the Stalinists, and, as with the POUM, the May Days saw their influence severely curtailed. As Anarchist society is inherently incompatible with the way Nation-States are represented in HoI4, we’ve had to get creative with their representation. A key part of this ties in with the concept of the “Regional Defense Council”, as historically used by the Anarchists during the civil war.

Dev Diary anarchist civil war branch.png


The initial action points for the Anarchists involve the collectivization of all aspects of society - seizing the means of production, giving workers autonomy and self-management, seizing public transport, and increasing communal farming. Rather than recreate an army, like the other branches focus on, the Anarchist focus on arming the people themselves, preferring to rely on self-organized militias. Just like the Communists, they also gain access to the International Brigades Spirit. Eventually, though, the government will crack down on the Revolution, but, as with the Independent Communists, the player will be able to take a focus to launch the uprising from their side instead, gaining a temporary combat bonus.

Dev Diary all must bear the torch.png


Once complete gender equality has been achieved through Mujeres Libres and the uprising has been started, either through government crack-down or through taking the focus Masters of Our Own Fate, the pivotal focus All Must Bear the Torch becomes available. This has a number of effects that impact the playstyle of the Anarchists:
  • The economic law is changed to a unique law Collectivized Society, which is slightly superior to War Economy, but also has (at first glance) significant bonuses to factory and dockyard output. It will not be possible to change away from this.
  • Trade law is changed to Closed Economy, and it will not be possible to change away from this.
  • The Anarchist Society Spirit that is first applied in the Regional Defense Council of Aragon focus, and which is continuously improved upon throughout the branch, gains a whopping (currently) 5% recruitable population. However, it also now gives a base -15% stability and -1% weekly stability.
  • Autonomous State modifiers are removed from all states that have this.
The end result of this is that an Anarchist Spain will be perpetually stuck at 0% stability. However, any negative effects they might experience from this are disabled or compensated for, with the sole exception of Political Power gain. The massive production speed bonuses inherent in the Collectivized Society economic law are purely intended to compensate for the -50% production bonus that is applied due to having 0% stability. Bad effects relating to low stability, such as Strikes, will not occur when playing as the Anarchists.

This all comes at a cost, however: every single other nation on the face of the planet will hate you. Initially, during the civil war itself, this is only noticed by the fact that no nation will want to aid you, and will instead support hostile Spanish factions against you. However, once the civil war ends, this will result in major powers taking steps to actively quell the Anarchist Revolution - with nations receiving AI modifiers to act in a hostile manner towards the Regional Defense Council. As the Anarchists, you stand alone against the world.

Dev Diary anarchist middle branch.png



The next part of the tree focuses on defending against this coming threat. Focuses will revolutionize military thinking, give combat bonuses to defense on core territory, and greatly increase War Support. A side branch will allow the Anarchist revolution to ‘spill over’ the Portuguese border, when the Anarchists share a border with them. The Portuguese Anarchism focus creates a civil war in Portugal, puppeting the Anarchist tag it creates, and annexing them once the Portuguese civil war has ended. Once this is complete, and the Spanish Civil War itself is also won, a new Regional Defense Council may be called into being: the Regional Defense Council of Iberia. This will core all Portuguese states, as well.

Dev Diary regional defense council of iberia.png



Finally, the finisher focuses focus greatly on preparing the Communes militarily for the Inevitable Counterblow. The success of the Revolution is a threat to the very way of life of the rest of the world, and they cannot let this stand. When they are done fighting among one another, they will come after you (and possibly even before…). But the Defense Council does not need to sit on its hands and wait for this to happen. Anarchism Knows No Borders provides a spirit that increases War Support even further, but also drastically increases justification time for War Goals. Plant the Seeds of Revolution allows for creating uprisings of Anarchists troops behind enemy lines, under your control. And finally, Global Defense Council will rename the country once again, illustrating its nature as an entity that has spread far beyond the confines of the Iberian peninsula. In addition, it allows for dynamically coring controlled hostile land in which Compliance has been raised to a sufficiently high level, as they simply reorganize into their own autonomous communes and join under the umbrella of the Defense Council.

Dev Diary anarchist finisher branch.png


Playing as the Anarchists will pose significant challenges, as you are effectively expected to take on the entire world alone, with a (at least initially) limited economic powerbase. However, it also provides significant rewards for a player that manages to succeed and push their enemies back, dynamically growing their powerbase much more efficiently than other countries can.

Dev Diary Global Defense Council.png

Unfortunately, all Anarchist military commanders were on short-notice leave from the frontlines, and so were unavailable for screenshots… :rolleyes:

Finally, we have a picture of both focus trees as they are presented to the player when they first load up the game as Spain, before they have taken any choices of who to support:

all_spain.jpg

On today’s HoI4 stream I will be joining @Da9L to take a look at the new Spanish trees, and in particular the new Republican tree. This will be followed by a Q&A session, where we’ll take your questions about them :) The stream will be from 15:00-16:00 CET, and can be viewed here.

We hope you’ll join us next week for another HoI4 dev diary!

Rejected Titles

Anarchy is the least stable form of society - it will collapse and form a government at the slightest touch

Splitting the party to save the party

The Anarchist police state rides again

How I stopped worrying about stability and started loving the collective

Spain was the most Popular Front ever

Sanity is a bourgeois concept

Please Comrade Stalin may I have some more foreign aid?

Casablanca Blues

In Australia, we drop the ‘FAI’

Homage to Cataluña

The Communist Party of Spain? We're the Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification! Splitters!

"Gentleman, we do not stop until Madrid." "But what about the Republic?" "You've already had it." "We've had one, yes, but what about a Second Republic?"

Basque-ing in Spain’s greatness!

My allegiance is to the Republic; to Democracy!

“We don't have a Caudillo! I told you, we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week [...].”

PCE be upon you, Spain. - love, Stalin <3

Red makes it go faster!
 
It's a shame hoi3 has such a complex party system with no real use in the game, then in hoi4 it was reduced to the simple "Commie, Nazi, Allies and Others" and yet we are trying to represent complex groups like Spanish Anarchists or Franco's various opportunities.
 
It's a shame hoi3 has such a complex party system with no real use in the game, then in hoi4 it was reduced to the simple "Commie, Nazi, Allies and Others" and yet we are trying to represent complex groups like Spanish Anarchists or Franco's various opportunities.
Really though, this is pretty annoying. In HoI3 there existed a pretty wide variety of ideologies that ended up not mattering at all because it was mostly impossible to switch ideologies and they overall didn't matter one bit. Now, we have a pretty wide variety of alternate history scenarios but now the developers are trying to fit square pegs into round holes and trying to make to with a "4 alignments" ideology system that doesn't work for anything except for the historical scenario, resulting in such oddities as Anarchists and Monarchists being considered the same ideology, Troskyists and Stalinists being happy to work with eachother and authoritarian states being arbitrarily considered non-aligned or fascist based purely on if they aligned with the historical Axis when the historical Axis might not even exist.
 
@--Yigito123-- The problem comes from the ability to increase party popularity in other nations. An anarchist ideology would mean adding anarchists parties in all nations in the game, with their respective leaders and portraits (this one doesn't matter so much as you can go with Mr.Generic), then you add Trotskyist parties for all countries as they were kinda different from the Stalinist who should have their own parties with names, leaders and portraits. And that's for the left because then you have to make distinctions between German Fascist, Italian Fascist, wannabe Fascist like Franco among other stuff.

I mean, I would love to have this as it would increase inmersion a lot and mods like Kaiserreich has demonstrated its doable; but this would take development time and I would prefer the content designers to works on focus tree for nations like the USSR, Finland, Bulgaria or Greece.

That said, I hope they do find some time for sub-ideologies when they do the Soviet focus tree rework. We should have distinctions among the different types of communism
 
You know, I just realized something.

Bratyn mentioned that one of the focuses under Soviet aid increases the Soviets' volunteer cap. I thought it was impossible for a country to commit more volunteers to a country if that country has volunteers from you already. I wonder if this is an oversight, or if this is going to be changed.


@Bratyn can you clear this up for us? It would be nice to see a tweak here. Sometimes I forget to check the little box to send air volunteers, and if you've already sent volunteers then... I'm out of luck.
 
You know, I just realized something.

Bratyn mentioned that one of the focuses under Soviet aid increases the Soviets' volunteer cap. I thought it was impossible for a country to commit more volunteers to a country if that country has volunteers from you already. I wonder if this is an oversight, or if this is going to be changed.


@Bratyn can you clear this up for us? It would be nice to see a tweak here. Sometimes I forget to check the little box to send air volunteers, and if you've already sent volunteers then... I'm out of luck.

you can already send additional volunteers after you’ve sent volunteers - there’s a small cool down for requests but I often send an additional division as Italy as soon as my unit cap increases by 1
 
@--Yigito123-- The problem comes from the ability to increase party popularity in other nations. An anarchist ideology would mean adding anarchists parties in all nations in the game, with their respective leaders and portraits (this one doesn't matter so much as you can go with Mr.Generic), then you add Trotskyist parties for all countries as they were kinda different from the Stalinist who should have their own parties with names, leaders and portraits. And that's for the left because then you have to make distinctions between German Fascist, Italian Fascist, wannabe Fascist like Franco among other stuff.

I mean, I would love to have this as it would increase inmersion a lot and mods like Kaiserreich has demonstrated its doable; but this would take development time and I would prefer the content designers to works on focus tree for nations like the USSR, Finland, Bulgaria or Greece.

That said, I hope they do find some time for sub-ideologies when they do the Soviet focus tree rework. We should have distinctions among the different types of communism
This could be fixed by having Ideology Categories.
Such as adding... Socialist Centrist Nationalist Ideology Groups!
Could add both separate Nationalist and Fascist regimes.... Separate Conservative and Liberal governments.... Aaand Separate Libertarian-Socialist and Marxist-Leninist governments.

Replacing boosting a single Ideology with boosting Ideology Group. Until the player decides with specific ideology to choose.... (Could also add Social Democratic and Monarchist ideologies that overlap into both groups)

Such a solution would not need giving Japan, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Canada, USA etc. separate Liberal or Anarchist or Stalinist focus trees for ALL countries unless specifically needed like in the Spanish or Soviet reworks.
 
Would be really awesome if Portugal gets a focus tree too, there's a lot of potential and paths the nation can go for.

There's a lot of mysticism behind it, like for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Empire
Lots of options like the restoration of the Portuguese monarchy (Probably even giving it cores to reconquer brazil and make the pink map come true).

To the rise of power of many people like for example: "Rolão Preto" (He pretty much looks like a Portuguese version of hitler).

Portugal aided Franco during the Spanish civil war and traded with the germans, tungsten for gold.

Lisbon was also a huge spy network, some even claiming it was the spy capital of the world at the time.
 
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Absolutely impressive! Since Waking the Tiger, Hoi4 is taking the good path. I can't wait to play all the branches available in Spain!
PD: I hope some of the great ideas implemented in Spain like the anarchist mechanics can be also carried to other countries in the future, that would be great!
 
Would be really awesome if Portugal gets a focus tree too, there's a lot of potential and paths the nation can go for.

There's a lot of mysticism behind it, like for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Empire
Lots of options like the restoration of the Portuguese monarchy (Probably even giving it cores to reconquer brazil and make the pink map come true).

To the rise of power of many people like for example: "Rolão Preto" (He pretty much looks like a Portuguese version of hitler).

Portugal aided Franco during the Spanish civil war and traded with the germans, tungsten for gold.

Lisbon was also a huge spy network, some even claiming it was the spy capital of the world at the time.


Although I agree with everything you have put in but I think Portugal does not have one thing that has confirmed approaches and more than another rework that is very likely from Italy.

Of a fragmentation or an important internal division something if another country like Belgium happens if it has apart completely compatible with all approaches and new mechanics

Also Portugal could be perfectly adapted in another future dlc of neutral countries like Sweden, Switzerland or Ireland and I do not believe this dlc we see mechanics for an espionage system that will surely be saved for when they do the Soviet rework
 
Will there be achievements for the different political ideologies you can go down as Spain? Like one for PU-ing France or conquering Europe/the World as Anarchists?

Will we get 2 minors this time around or just Spain due to the size of the tree? I really want to see Turkey or Brazil get a focus tree.
 
This could be fixed by having Ideology Categories.
Such as adding... Socialist Centrist Nationalist Ideology Groups!
Could add both separate Nationalist and Fascist regimes.... Separate Conservative and Liberal governments.... Aaand Separate Libertarian-Socialist and Marxist-Leninist governments.

Replacing boosting a single Ideology with boosting Ideology Group. Until the player decides with specific ideology to choose.... (Could also add Social Democratic and Monarchist ideologies that overlap into both groups)

Such a solution would not need giving Japan, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Canada, USA etc. separate Liberal or Anarchist or Stalinist focus trees for ALL countries unless specifically needed like in the Spanish or Soviet reworks.
How does this differ meaningfully from the current system?
 
How does this differ meaningfully from the current system?
Well it gets rid of the Stupid "Democratic" vs "Communist" vs "Fascist" dichotomy by adding more ideologies :p
It doesn't have to be mechanically groundbreaking. But it's better to adopt that HOI3 like system rather the extremely watered down representation of Ideologies we have now.
 
Franco was more Pro-German than Salazar because Franco had interests in joining the Axis, such as reclaiming Gibraltar and taking French Morocco, while Portugal had no interest in joining the war or associating with the warmongering of Germany, and risking loosing their colonies (which they valued too much) to the Allies. Salazar also considered Hitler to be untrustworthy and dangerous, expecially to the smaller and poorer countries of peripheral Europe, also Salazar valued catholicism a lot, and Nazi Germany had no state religion, and Salazar viewed that as a great offense to his religious views. Its not an ideological divergence, but a matter of distrust, and strategic issues.
However, Salazar was VERY pro-Musollini, in fact he famously had a picture of Musoillini in his desk all the time, and If we are going to be purists, Italian Fascism is the true fascismo.

I don't exactly disagree. But again, I will always say that Franco was far more Fascist / extremist / pro-nazi than Salazar, and by far. Plus the way ideology is in game, Fascism pratically includes every country that was a dictatorship of sorts and had more motives to be pro-axis than pro-allies. Franco was always more pro-axis.

Salazar was neither, and he was fairly sure we would face either side. But the old aliance with britain spoke higher and since Germany was losing badly already Portugal easily agreed to help the allies with military bases/acess.


Portugal also contributed with men for operation Barbarossa, alongside Spain's Blue Division. Portugal might dislike Germany, but they absolutely despised Socialism, so when Germany invaded the USSR Portugal rejoiced as a crusade against Communism.
And Portugal also supported Francoist Spain during the Civil war, the Viriatos Division consisting of 12,000 men (Second largest volunteer force in both sides of the conflict after Italy's Corpo Truppe Volontarie).

You are wrong. There were people that joined the germans, but Portugal itself (the state) never supported operation Barbarossa.

"An estimated number of 159 Portuguese volunteers fought for the Axis in the World War II, mainly in the Spanish Blue Division. They were mostly veteran volunteers of the Spanish civil war, the so-called Viriatos and were essentially adventurous mercenaries or Portuguese fascist nationalists fighting the communist and Bolshevik threat." - Quoted from Wikipedia

Portugal did support Spain during the civil war with the Viriatos but that was that. Portugal did not want communists/leftists/whatever right next door. A very tiny amount of those Viriatos from the civil war later on joined the Spanish Blue Division or joined elsewhere against the communists, but again, that's that. 159 is a number so small it's pratically non existent. Plus the state couldn't prevent possible volunteers for fighting against the communists (for coin or ideology).

Again, as previously mentioned, they did in fact contribute with volunteers, and they also contributed with landing and docking rights for German ships and air forces.
The Tungsten and other materials were sold for money sure, but thats how the world works, the U.S.A also sold plenty of materials to the western allies, does that mean the U.S has no merit of suppling the West? Because you can bet that the U.S.A wasn't selling Germany their Tungsten, Oil, Rubber and Steel.

Unsure where you are getting your info from but I am pretty sure Portugal was always neutral and that giving docking rights for German ships would violate any neutrality. We did not give them to the British (our old allies), why would we give them to the… Germans? In fact USA was almost invading (War Plan Gray) Portugal (because they wanted the Azores), but the British knew of the plan and convinced Salazar to "help the allies". We only gave acess to the Azores very late during the war, and only to the Allies.


So did Franco, and Hitler and every extremist regime who wants to pretend to be a special snow flake and transcend beyond the commun left-right axis.


Here is another example of another special snowflake. The MNS (currently the Fascist party of Portugal in game) was also NOT fascist. In fact, they proclaim to be anti-fascist (very ironic) they were anti-fascist, anti-communist, anti-capitalist,a snowflakes. What they actually supported was traditional Catholic values and a traditional Monarchy. So they were essentially, pretty identical to the Estado Novo (except the pro-Monarchy and anti-capitalism part, the Estado Novo was VERY capitalistic)
And the MNS wasn't persecuted (at least not as much as other leftist parties were), it was banned yes, but most of their previous members joined the União Nacional, which is the party of the Estado Novo all along!

You are not exactly wrong - yes they (MNS) were anti-fascist and everything else. Salazar also gave them the option to join his own political party, an option many took. The MNS was syndicalist and that was, pratically the only part where both parties disagreed 100%. Estado novo was full of Pro-monarchists, Salazar himself gave certain privileges to the Duke of Bragança (the next in-line for king, if we consider the other 2 pretenders as ilegitimate as their claims were never proved). I wouldn't say Estado Novo was very capitalist though. Very capitalist was the USA. What Salazar did, was give certain privileges and monopolies to big companies - and given that Portugal had a decent size market (with all the colonies being taken in consideration), those grew pretty powerful and rich and in turn kept investing and increasing the Portuguese economy. CUF, being one of those companies, for instance.

Rolao Preto - the head of the MNS, was seen imitating Hitler more than once though, and his political party took their ideals from the Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional-Sindicalista, which ended being fused with the Spanish Falange. The Spanish Falange itself started being called Falange Española de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista.

And as I said, if the Nationalists were pratically Fascists, and if the MNS copied the Spanish Nationalists, then the answer is pretty much obvious. The MNS might have a few things that make them diferent from the Spanish Nationalists, but they are closer to being a fascist party, than comunist, republican or monarchist one.

On a side note, check the wikipedia page for Francisco Rolao Preto or the MNS, and reach your own conclusion, specially after reading the first paragraph:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Rolão_Preto


Why would Portugal, a peaceful, stable neutral country, be recieving military aid from countries which were actually fighting a serious war? Citation needed.

Because the UK wanted to have Portugal as an ally or keep us outside of german influence - if the germans used Azores as a military base, they could mess up supply lines even more than they did, and could even strike at the USA mainland with their "high tech bombers". The UK had a small budget allocated to Portugal, and we could pratically buy whatever we wanted (with that budget) as long as they could supply it and as long as it didn't surpass the said budget. Plus, Portugal wasn't _that_ stable and peace was actually being threatened by the Axis Powers (British enemies) and even USA itself later on (unrelated but the fact remains). Germany on the other hand only sold things before 1940. And I think the bulk of whatever came from Germany actually came before 1939 (before the war started).

Bruh, a quick look through the Portuguese armament during the Colonial War and you will see 80% of their equipment was Either German or Italian, usually dating back to the 40's, Walther and Luger pistols, Breda heavy machineguns, Mauser Rifles, G3 - Assult rifles... Etc...

I am sorry but you don't have an idea of what you are saying. First of, we are speaking about world war 2. The colonial war, hapened only in 1961. So yes, eventual leftovers were sold to Portugal. AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR. For instance, G3 was adquired after 1960. I hope you realize that the game scope is from 1936 and ends in 1950.

During the second world war, we did buy a few 10.000's from germany, specially after they annexed Austria and sold us weapons from Steyr (they also sold us decent quantities of Mausers as well).

But the bulk of the Portuguese armament from 1936 to 1950 came from the UK or USA. From tanks, to airplanes, to artilery, to destroyers. Small weapons (and even some other pieces like mortars/artilery) were made at the FBP and other places like FNMAL here in Portugal.

Either way I will give you a small list of equipment, of what was used mostly/adquired during this time:

Tanks: Centaur and Vicker tanks (like Carden-Loyd tankettes). All from England. We also adquired armored cars from the UK, notably the Bren Carrier.
Artilery: QF pounder from the UK, 155mm howitzer from USA (iirc), Obice da 75/18 modello 34 from italy.
AA guns: From Vickers-Armstrong and QF 3.7-inch AA. Also Bofors and some Flakvierling 38.
Small weapons: Mauser-Vergueiro most of the time, adapted into Mauser 98k later on. Also received certain weapons from Germany but in limited quantities. FBP m/948 was also produced during this time since it was cheap and effective.
Ships: At least 10 destroyers / minesweepers / ASW ships given by the UK in order to keep the Azores clean of possible threats after Portugal allowed military acess into those islands.
Airplanes: Just the UK alone gave us more than 100 spitfires. The germans + italians didn't even sell us 20 airplanes (and a good deal were just for transport, lol). There were also decent quantities sold by the UK/USA ranging from Gladiators, P-39 Airacobras, Bristol Blenheims and Hawker Hurricanes. Amongst many others.

Frankly the list is just too big. The germans did sell us a decent quantity of small guns (a little more than 50.000), and there were some tiny bits here and there that the italians sold as well (like the artilery piece I listed, amongst some other heavy weapons but they were so small in number I didn't even bother taking in consideration). But over 80% of the equipment, during this time, came from USA-UK (and some from canada).

Spain had 5 times the population of Portugal, and had just came out of a civil war with heavy political dissidence and unrest, Portugal was extremely stable and had been living under Estado Novo for 15 years already, it is not comparable. Besides, Fascism isn't defined by number of casualties anyway. Italy was far less brutal than Germany.

Estado Novo was implemented by Salazar on 1932. Spanish civil war started on 1938. You said 15 years? Portugal was recovering from economic crisis, and you speak about "stability"? Not to mention republican/comunist plots, or even monarchists/rightists that weren't exactly pleased with the government. Those anti-government parties even tried to kill Salazar. But yes we were very stable. Specially with possible Spanish invasion backed by Axis powers, or even a possible invasion from the part of the USA+UK. That kind of stability right? Oh, did I forget the oposition that Salazar faced from the army as well? Why did you think Salazar even had to become the Minister of Defense as well?

Again, Fascism isn't defined by number of casualties, but it shows the brutality of Franco's regime. A good or benevolent dictator doesn't murder his own people in those numbers. And you have to remember that in-game Fascism isn't really Fascism in real-life, since the AI will only join in most cases aliances in which their ideology is represented. And since Franco was pro-axis obviously, and given his own doings on Spain, it is more than obvious that we should consider his government a Fascist government for gaming purposes.

On a side note:

Portuguese Population by 1939: 18,595,400
Spanish Population by 1939: 26,822,800

You said Spain surpassed Portuguese population by 5x times?


Oh please, Portugal had 3 elections, (none that happened during the game timeframe mind you) and they were Presidential elections, Portugal is not a Presidential republic, the President has barely any power.
The President could abolish the Estado Novo regime and demand a democratic governmental election, however all "elected" presidents were members of the União Nacional. I quote elected because the elections were far from fair, and even when a candidate had so much popular support that he couldn't get rigged into losing, he would get imprisoned in some labour camp in the colonies or straight out assasinated by the State Police, yes I'm talking about Humberto Delgado.
Salazar ruled Portugal with absolutel control ever since he rose to power to the day he fell from a chair and became bed-ridden.
His successor was appointed by him, not elected, and continued rulling the country until he was deposed by a militar and popular uprising, which finally installed actual democracy.

Humberto Delgado, was, curiously, one of those extreme rightists I spoke of earlier (not from MNS, but those that liked Germany). He even wrote a book in which he showed his leanings towards the Nazis. He even wanted the Estado Novo to be more pro-german during and before the war started. Curiously he switched ideology after he visited the USA - the PIDE (secret police) then started watching him, since they knew he had sold himself to the americans. It is funny that he is now a hero, but that only because he was one of the many people that fought against the regime. Frankly I don't blame Salazar for what hapened with Humberto Delgado - that was the PIDE's doing, and given that he had interests that did not serve the country but other countries, I can't blame them either.

You will note that from all elections, only Humberto Delgado was killed. All the others that participated and did not win, were left alone. As for "actual democracy", I always find it funny because the "father of democracy" (Mario Soares) himself stated there was no democracy in Portugal. And in part, he was saying the truth - a few days ago you had a party in power that was not even elected by the people. So I really fail to see your point about the "actual democracy". There are many type of democracies in the world, mind you - many with only 1 party. Portugal during the time's scope, was one of those. Voting was not an universal right for everyone - there were less than/about 20.000 votes on the city of Porto alone during one of the elections for instance. And the city of Porto was/is the second biggest in Portugal. But was this a problem at the time? Certainly not, given that countless other countries followed a similar system.


Because back then, NATO was basically an Anti-Comintern alliance, and as a staunch anti-communist, Portugal was allowed to join.
Spain could also join, they just choose not to, because Spain's relationship with the Allies wasn't exactly the best one, (Portugal has always been historically closer to Britain and quite good in the diplomatic game).


Please remind me what exactly did Spain do that prevented them to join, that Portugal didn't also do?

Political persecution was vast and extreme in Spain. There was some in Portugal as well, but nothing as severe as in Spain. Plus as I said, we had elections. It was one of the things USA demanded for our admitance, and why we only had elections… after 1950, as you noticed. Spain couldn't choose anything because the option for them to join was never a possibility. Only after democracy was implemented, as I stated previously. As for what NATO was or is, it is irrelevant. If Spain was anti-communist and NATO was solely anti-communist, then why didn't they let the good ol' Spain into the block? Reach your own conclusions, specially with what I said a few lines before.

I'll disagree, so far you only presented diplomatic arguments as to why Spain was more alligned with the Axis than Portugal. But you gave me no ideological points of divergence. The values and politicies of Francoist Spain are identical to those of Estado Novo, which both in turn were similar to Italian Fascism (with some differences such as a much higher role of the Church, and full embrace of Capitalist values).

While we are at this, why is nobody arguing about why Japan is considered Fascist, since they absolutely weren't either.

I believe diplomatic arguments are more than enough specially, once more, given how things work in the game. Germany wasn't Fascist, Japan wasn't Fascist, and many others weren't Fascist, yet, they are Fascist. Because, that enables the AI to join Axis or one of the Fascist aliances. Spanish AI, with the nationalists winning the civil war, could, theorically and historically speaking, join the Axis powers since Franco himself even sent the blue division. If they were non-aligned, they wouldn't join anyone, and would be following the historical route all the times and staying out of the war.

This, I agree.
An anarchist revolution in Portugal is as far fetched as the Communist Japan meme.

Glad we agree on something. Also, as a side note, I won't be answering any future posts, because I already said what I wanted to say. I studied this period imensely and have read countless books that show different point of views. I will recommend "Salazar, Tempos dificeis" from Arnaldo Madureira since you seem to not be entirely aware of how things were during this period. It was not a stable period, as the title of the book states.
 
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