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HOI4 Dev Diary - War Changes and Game Difficulty

Hello everyone, last week we covered the last of the new focus trees, so from now on we will focus (heh) on new features and changes again. Today we are going to start off by talking about changes to how wars work as well as sharing some very interesting telemetry data!

War Changes
When we planned out Waking the Tiger, we knew that we wanted to solve several issues with wars once and for all. The game wasn’t really set up for 3-way-wars and it tried to stop you from 3-way wars as much as possible, and if it failed some pretty nasty bugs could happen. Wars could in certain cases end up either having to force friends into war, or drop people from wars which usually really messed up both multiplayer and singleplayer when it happened. It was all just a nasty and horrible mess on the code side as well.

Our changes effectively mean that now every two nations at war have their own little war and we instead present wars as a summary of sides that make sense. How you look at a war as a player shouldn't really look any different now. This was a massive change that has taken us a lot of time (and quite a bit of sanity), but I am confident that it will have been worth it with all the issues it has solved and freedom for players it will enable (particularly for mods that like to do a lot of wars from events and focuses where there was a big chance of things working out wrong - not naming any names).

When playing, the biggest changes you will notice is that wars merging now is a lot smoother. War score, casualties and such are properly tracked and retained. Its now also possible to fight 3-way wars (or more) so we can handle Axis vs Comintern vs Allies vs The Japanese co-prosperity sphere etc.

The war interface has also gotten a bunch of changes:
Screenshot_1.jpg

  • You can now filter nations like minors, capitulated, or nations who aren’t called in yet
  • We show nations that could be called in, but aren’t in blue (so you can see that the soviets have not called in Republican Spain yet), this is instead of the old interface where there was separate lists, now a button appears if you yourself have the power to call them.
  • We group up factions and summarize stats for them for easier comparisons
  • The interface lets you pick among your wars, but there is also a War Summary that collects all war allies and enemies in one big page. The interface also scales with your screen size, so it's much easier to get an overview of large complex wars now.
Screenshot_2.jpg


One of my favourite new things is that we show a breakdown of the casualties, so you can see how many casualties you caused for a specific nation:
Untitled-2.jpg


Difficulty Settings
We are slowly building up better and better telemetry on HOI players and I really love to share it with the community when it’s surprising, and this one surprised me a lot actually! It turns out that close to 40% of players prefer to play on the lowest difficulty setting. I would have expected this to be quite a bit less!

difficulty.jpg


As number of hours you play goes up people migrate away from recruit a bit. So for players with less than 50 hours played, 60% of them use Recruit and after playing 200+ hours only about 28% still use Recruit. Veteran shows the largest relative change. For beginners, it is 1.4% who use it and it goes up to 3.5% for 200+ hour players. The vast majority use Regular. It's the difficulty setting that doesn't give you any bonuses or penalties so this is usually what people prefer. My design philosophy is to try and stay away from direct combat bonuses and such that will make you learn the game in the wrong way. I prefer buffing things that allows a player to play more sub-optimal, so faster research (or slower so you must make more optimal choices), smaller losses on efficiency when changing production lines or less impact of lack of resource and such. It's also important to only affect the player as you don't really know which of the nations will end up on their side or as enemies. For example, in HOI3 depending on country it could actually be easier at harder settings, since certain nations were advantaged by that in an allied role.

So what are we doing about this? First of all we are adding two more settings (the gods of symmetry demand it!). A new difficulty before Recruit called Civilian and a new harder difficulty called Elite.
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I also thought I would mention that we haven't really analyzed the custom difficulty settings yet but plan to in the future. I always recommend them to tailor your game. Say if you want a particularly strong Soviet to fight as Germany.

See you all again next week! Also don't forget to tune in to World War Wednesday at 16:00 CET where we start a new campaign to show off all the new stuff in Waking the Tiger as a Chinese warlord on the rise!

Rejected diary titles:
  • Dan Lind's "War and Peace (Book One of Four)"
  • War (screen), What is it good for?
  • I guess we don’t need to spend all the work we do on improving the AI after all
  • War. War sometimes changes
  • You can't fight in here. This is a wargame forum.
  • Players online usually lie about the size of their conquests
  • You get a war, and you get a war! Everyone gets a war!
  • Maybe finally Quill18 can now play competitive multiplayer without getting shafted by a war-merge bug!
 
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I suspect it's because unlike Hong Kong, which can be a base for the UK in Asia and thus a focal point of activity, Danzig's historical interest was mostly political and it ended up being annexed straight away at the start of the war.

What I mean is, I'm not sure there would be much mechanical benefit within the game to making Danzig a free city, when it was really nominally a Polish one. I suppose they could give the province some maluses or something to reflect it's weird status.
They could always make it a Polish puppet in that case.
But you have a point, not much would change in the game with a free Danzig in it, so it probably doesn't have any place besides the bottom of the priority list.
Pretty sure there are mods for that anyway.
 
Regarding airzones, you also don't recieve bonuses from radar and territory when flying in allied airspace, which I think is odd.

Sounds important.
The lack of bonuses might deserve its own thread.
 
How are peace conferences changed by this? What happens when there's a 3-way war between the Soviets, the Axis, and the Allies and Germany capitulates to the Soviets but half of their territory is occupied by the Allies?
 
Thank god the multiple war bugs are fixed where japan with it's own faction ends up annexing germany after the axis lose while fighting alongside it against the allies.
 
yeah its a very interesting question my guess is:
- forum community is still a very small part of all owners, so even if you all play on max difficulty the number would still work out
- people dont like to say they play on lower difficulties
- people may be using custom difficulties a lot more as some ppl said, nerfing your production isnt always fun, so may be better to buff the enemy
- MP players are 14%, and wouldnt really be using this right so that affects numbers too especially if a lot of good players go to play MP instead as a challenge

but yeah its very interesting, what do you normally play on for SP?

In SP I play on Regular, mainly because I dislike player penalties. I am fine with buffing the AI, but I want my own play to reflect as much as possible what I could get playing in an MP game (even if I don't play MP! Maybe one day). Playing with different modifiers for myself would mean that some of the lessons learned are less transferable, especially when it comes to things like research times where a research plan from '36 to '39 works with normal research, but doesn't with a +10%/20% research time penalty.

You totally just revealed that we are not releasing next week!

We all know that you guys announce dates ~2 weeks in advance these days, so "announcement in 1-2 weeks" means "release in 3-4 weeks". ;)
 
We all know that you guys announce dates ~2 weeks in advance these days, so "announcement in 1-2 weeks" means "release in 3-4 weeks". ;)
THANK GOD they're not releasing it that soon though. I'd wait at least one more month. Or two,considering the shameful display of the livestream!
 
yeah its a very interesting question my guess is:
- forum community is still a very small part of all owners, so even if you all play on max difficulty the number would still work out
- people dont like to say they play on lower difficulties
- people may be using custom difficulties a lot more as some ppl said, nerfing your production isnt always fun, so may be better to buff the enemy
- MP players are 14%, and wouldnt really be using this right so that affects numbers too especially if a lot of good players go to play MP instead as a challenge

but yeah its very interesting, what do you normally play on for SP?
Because the game isn't getting any more difficult once you handicap yourself by research time and PP generation.

EU4 is (or at least can, if you go for one-tag WC as a minor etc.) be difficult; HoI4 isn't. No one gives a crap about your conquests, that's the main problem.
 
The difficulty level thing is interesting. In other PDX games[1], I tend to play on Easy, as I find that most fun - I rarely play any games above normal. (I'm not big into "challenges" in general, I'm quite happy for the AI to set me up some dominos to knock down.) Apparently I'm not quite as much of an outlier as one might expect.

That said, it does all make a fair bit of sense. The forums here are going to be populated by the majority of the keenies, as opposed to those who are more "casual" (sic, PDX games being as long as they are, "casual" is stretching the point!) Simply because those of us posting here are more likely to be the ones more "into" the whole thing, rather than just as a game, if that makes sense...?



[1]I can't comment on what I will play HoI4 on, haven't actually played HoI4 yet... (It will be recruit or civilian though!) There doesn't seem much point to be starting a game with Cornflakes and Waking the Dragon around the corner (I'm in the same boat with Stellaris); might as well wait until then and be able to dive in up-to date!
 
@podcat

I really don't understand the idea of difficult = bonus / penalty for the player / AI. I mean, the AI is still the same level in the highest difficult setting. It just has some advantages the player don't have. It's not more aggressive or passive, like you could set in Stellaris. The AI isn't able to make better decisions like build up more infrastructure or let's produce units against restitance. I don't know how other people feel about this, but I think that's not a way I would define the difficult level of a game.

Besides that, I really hope the new war systems works out. I am optimistic you guys have done it well :)
 
One big help which should be relatively easy to program is to give us a warning icon in case any resource is overimported. It is very easy in case of switching production lines or building refineries or conquering states with resources.
 
It would be cool if we could have minor regional wars or even proxy wars, i hate for instance if I'm playing Yugoslavia and end up in a civil war or a minor war against for instance Bulgaria and the other side suddenly joins the Axis,Allies or Comintern and the world war suddenly starts at like 1937 or something. its a bit annoying, especially when its a civil war.
 
Agree with nerfing self on production and research is not fun so most times go normal diff with specific buffs. Also don't like buffing minors too much.

Very surprised how many people play on low diff. Maybe a significant portion of them are playing minors?
 
It would be really nice if paradox put some effort into fixing multiplayer. Single player is unplayable for me since the AI is so pants on head retarded. Multiplayer is the most unbalanced mess i've ever seen in a strategy game.

To whoever marked "disagree's" on my post, please. I can beat the AI with a minimal of effort.

As to the whole multiplayer is unbalanced part, please take a good look at the multiplayer community and all the rules they have to place on matches to keep the game from turning into a meme. This has caused a lot of animosity in the MP community, and there are a good number of us. I've got over 1100 hours in the game and 1/2 of that is in MP. It's toxic to say the least how a lot of the MP community feels about MP. If the AI was even marginally better SP might be the games saving grace, but it's not, so those of us who have to play MP to try to find a challenge are jaded. At the very lease, Paradox could implement some interface so that MP hosts can setup the game so that the rules we have to artificially impose socially on MP matches are more like settings that can be ticked off on the interface. As it stands now, we still have to deal with low level bugs like ghost players crashing the match by spamming text, let alone dealing with the imbalance.
 
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It would be great if the difficulty will not did not change game mechanics / parameters. Imagine this would be a chess game and paradox idea to make the game easier or harder is to remove pieces from the board or exchange them for better ones (eg. pawn for a rook).

How about to make the ai smarter or use more (random) options? At least I can imagine to define certain builds for specific nations. Eg. italy would aim for carriers or all in for naval bombers in order to beat allies navy.

That's just my two cents.
 
These new war changes sound great but I have to wonder, take for example the teaser from yesterday the Italian-Greek war say for example Greece has been capitulated is that treated like a normal war finishing with the victors claiming states and equipment or does that just mean that little war is gone form the screen and the fighting continues?

It sound's stupid to ask but I was curious because of the war changes.