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Modding Development Diary #1: Guest entry - Paradox Mods in Cities: Skylines II

Introduction​

Right! So the time has come to lift the lid off of the modding interface and its backing service.

As many of you know, Paradox has been running our own mods backend for years, inventively named Paradox Mods. As a matter of fact, the first game that we hosted mods for was the Xbox version of Cities: Skylines I.

In order to give players on all platforms the same possibilities, PC and console alike, the Cities: Skylines II team has chosen to use Paradox Mods to officially host mods for the game. Now, the discerning reader might be wondering what that means for players and how they interact with mods. Read on!

The player experience​

As we have seen in other titles, primarily Surviving Mars, offering access to mods from inside the game itself means that many more players interact with them and more people discover the fun that comes with modding a game.

In Cities: Skylines II, the interface to Paradox Mods will be found in the game’s main menu. Have a look:
main_menu_updated_240313.png

The Paradox Mods interface will allow you to discover, search and just plain browse through mods from inside the game. Additionally, our staff will highlight especially interesting, popular or unique mods for your consideration.

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In common with other games that use Paradox Mods, the interface will allow you to create and manage playsets. If you have played other Paradox titles, the concept might be familiar, but if it’s new to you, playsets are basically “playlists for mods that form easily togglable experiences.” If you place a mod that has a dependency in a playset, you’ll be automatically asked if you want to add all dependencies (yes, we do resolve the entire tree of dependencies).

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Of course, the in-game interface is not the only way to manage your mods: Playsets can be constructed from the Paradox Mods website as well. There, mods can be added, removed and toggled - and all of this will then be synced to your game automatically. Likewise, playsets are stored in our backend and will be replicated to all devices you happen to play the game on. And consequently: No, your carefully constructed playsets will not disappear if your computer lets out the magic smoke inside.

Mods discussions are also available directly from in-game - but the same discussions are also present on our forums, if you would rather post from a web interface. You can also find links to other (SoMe) platforms related to the mod, if pointed out by the creator.

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Naturally, there are other ways to get mods than from Paradox Mods; creating them yourself for instance. Of course, the game will allow you to add local mods of any source to your playsets - Be aware that these will not be cloud-synced and will indeed be lost on catastrophic system failure.

The creator experience​

Now, in order to have actual mods to play with there needs to be ways of submitting mods to the game.
You can find instructions on how to upload your map and code mods here.
And how to create them to begin with, which we’ll leave to our friends at Colossal Order to share more information about, starting tomorrow!

We can mention that, as a mod creator you can add metadata to your mod such as description, screenshots, dependencies, release notes, supported game version etc. This information can be changed at any time through the Paradox Mods website as well. If you so wish, you can also add a discussion section to your mod.

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This wraps up our little teaser from the Paradox Mods team, and we're buzzing with excitement to get this out to you as soon as we’re allowed. We're all ears for your feedback because, let's face it, we're on a mission to create something of value across all platforms, blemishes and all.

Tomorrow Colossal Order is back, they will go into detail about the in-game editor where you create the actual mods that will in turn populate the Paradox Mods library!

Paradox Mods releases on the 25th of March, together with the Beach Properties Asset Pack!
 
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I know a lot of work went into this but I still kind of hope it fails quickly so that Paradox will allow the Steam workshop to be enabled. No matter how much work goes into reinventing the wheel, Steam's ergonomics aren't a reasonable target for any company without their level of funding and focus.


If it's convenient, that means it doesn't suck. Convenience is the purpose of a mod platform. If not for convenience, you might as well just download the mods from the creator's git.

You are missing the point. Convenience isn’t the only criteria for a mod platform to be good. Steam workshop is convenient because it is easily accessible, but Valve is never going to put in any effort to improving it, and it really isn’t suitable for a game like Cities Skylines where people may have thousands of assets and mods downloaded. It is a pain to organize mods and assets you have downloaded. I would rather have a platform where we can give feedback and actually maybe get some improvements than Valve’s archaic system.
 
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You're aware that Paradox and Colossal Order already had full moderation capabilities on the Steam Workshop for CS1?
Thats not what I am saying at all in my post. I am well aware of that fact. You are misconstruing my statement. I am stating that this gives them more leverage for being able to respond to DMCA takedown notices for content.
 
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For everyone confused:

A mod modifies the game code

An asset is an item or model that can be used in-game
That was just how they were categorized on the workshop, the actual term mod though is just short for modification and includes ANY form of modification which includes things like ui, assets and levels. Code mods is a much more accurate term for what the CS1 workshop categorized as mods.
 
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In order to give players on all platforms the same possibilities
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding so far is that only assets, and not actual mods, will be available on console, and none of that will be available at all on GeForce Now. Official asset packs will also be delivered via Paradox mods, so will GFN users also be missing out on what used to be base game updates in CS1? This is honestly baffling to me.
 
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I wonder why there are still people asking why there is no Steam Workshop integration when the answers are so incredibly obvious.

1. it would lock out all Microsoft Store customers. Both on X-Box and PC. Guys the game is in Gamepass! It would make no sense at all to include a game so based on modding in the Gamepass if you distribute the mods exclusively via Steam Workshop. You can assume that there are contracts between Microsoft and CO that say exactly that.
2. Implementing multiple modding platforms is technically and logically total bullshit.
3. Steam Workshop is bad. It's buggy and technically unreliable.

And these are just the most obvious reasons.
 
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Thats not what I am saying at all in my post. I am well aware of that fact. You are misconstruing my statement. I am stating that this gives them more leverage for being able to respond to DMCA takedown notices for content.
What additional leverage would they have? If they get a DMCA takedown notice for the Steam Workshop or Paradox Mods website, there is literally zero differences. Or at least I don't see any difference at all. Can you elaborate your point a bit further, in what way they would have additional leverage?

Actually, wouldn't it be the other way around? Since the Steam platform is located in the US and thus is much closer to the laws for DMCA takedowns? While Paradox is located in Sweden where there is no such thing as a DMCA takedown?
 
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I wonder why there are still people asking why there is no Steam Workshop integration when the answers are so incredibly obvious.

1. it would lock out all Microsoft Store customers. Both on X-Box and PC. Guys the game is in Gamepass! It would make no sense at all to include a game so based on modding in the Gamepass if you distribute the mods exclusively via Steam Workshop. You can assume that there are contracts between Microsoft and CO that say exactly that.
2. Implementing multiple modding platforms is technically and logically total bullshit.
3. Steam Workshop is bad. It's buggy and technically unreliable.

And these are just the most obvious reasons.
Seriously...I loved the Steam Workshop for making mods available, but Paradox Mods doing dependency resolution alone is worth the switch. Steam was so vulnerable to author and user error, as well as (mod) updates breaking things. Search is so bad. Managing subscriptions is horrible because you can barely sort or filter them. We have several mods like Skyve that exist to fix problems with the workshop, but now the devs can just...actually fix things. There are almost no downsides to this switch on our end, it was just extra work for Paradox and CO.
 
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For those that might have missed it in October, we created an FAQ thread about Paradox Mods that does answer some more questions and is available here.
Per CPP, are you going to enable sharing of playlists?
Per CPP, are you going to show a mod's popularity rating?
Will we be able to mark particular modders as favorites?
 
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This is exactly the problem as it's not a small inconvenience having to download all the mods every time the game is started, that is no way for an official mod support to work. We will look into this later and see if the issue can be resolved.

Took me a while to dig it out - but we got this update regarding GFN on 17th November. For all of us playing on GFN, we would much rather have a slightly inconvenient workaround to download mods and assets than not be able to access any of the mods or assets - this must be abundantly clear. Given this previous commitment to look at this - please could we get an update on this?

I ask the question again, why did you launch with a GFN partnership if you knew you were going to be fundamentally excluded from a significant part of the game?
 
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Thats not what I am saying at all in my post. I am well aware of that fact. You are misconstruing my statement. I am stating that this gives them more leverage for being able to respond to DMCA takedown notices for content.

That's exactly what you're saying as their leverage will be exactly the same on PDXMods than it was on Steam. No more, no less.

We have several mods like Skyve that exist to fix problems with the workshop, but now the devs can just...actually fix things.
Skyve will still be needed, if any for the compatibility checker and it'll be one of the first mods published on PDXMods:

## SKYVE - Mod Manager for Cities: Skylines II

You are familiar with Skyve from Cities: Skylines 1. @tdw_village was working to expand Skyve's original capabilities for Cities: Skylines II and now that PDXMods is getting ready to launch next week, he can show some previews and features to expect from the mod manager of Cities Skylines modding community on launch day. Skyve II will allow you to:

* Browse and discover all PDXM content directly through Skyve
* Subscribe and download mods directly from Skyve user interface
* Manage your PDXM playsets and use extra options native to Skyve
* Brand new mod page with all the information directly from PDXMods
* Improved mod compatibility checker system
* and many more..

Skyve is also redesigned and will be shipped with a polished interface, including the updated dark mode.
 
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Hi all. Can't wait to have some mods available!

Unrelated question: I can't find FOLLOW button in these diaries, is it my end or... ? Tried to search forum for the answer, but no vail. Would be great to have the ability, like in "regular" posts. Thanks.
 
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Hi all. Can't wait to have some mods available!

Unrelated question: I can't find FOLLOW button in these diaries, is it my end or... ? Tried to search forum for the answer, but no vail. Would be great to have the ability, like in "regular" posts. Thanks.
Not your end. For whatever reason, only the Beach Properties announcement has a Follow button. Neither this one nor the Word of the Weeks have either.
 
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I’m fairly certain they had previously said it wouldn’t be, but then said they would look at it further.
strange, makes no sense why it wouldn't be as its an in game feature and not a 3rd party thing. Thats like saying you cant access other parts of the game. But who knows, I've not seen anything from them myself saying they can or can't.
 
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Unrelated question: I can't find FOLLOW button in these diaries, is it my end or... ? Tried to search forum for the answer, but no vail. Would be great to have the ability, like in "regular" posts. Thanks.
You go to the first page and type 'watch' at the end of the URL
 
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