Stellaris 4.0 "Phoenix Update" Free Features

[SS Boss]

As in, you can build only one building of the same type? Or as in you can build only one building per planet? Pretty lame if its just one...

If they don't changed it from the last time they answered this question, it's only one building of the same type per planet.

 

[Newbee53]

one point of constructive criticism, I note that default templates are described as one per spices. the new system would truly live to it's promise if multiple default templates could be set.

How would the system know which default you need on which planet? also, if you have two defaults, you don't really have a default at all do you? though that's just a naming issue.

I remember seeing that each subtype can be set to 'assimilate to default' or not. So you can use a default template, then specialize from the default as you want. Which will make conquering a mutation Biogen empire a lot less of a headache. Can't remember if it was shown in a recent stream, but I'm pretty sure that is how the beta was.

As in, you can build only one building of the same type?

I understood that each corporate building gets the 1 per planet attribute/modifier thing added to it. Same as robot factories or whatever.

 

[Falrinn]

Thinking it over, this isn't actually the first time I've seen logistics-as-currency in sci fi.

In the novel Artimis, there is a city on the Moon that was built primarily as a luxury travel destination. Because the city had to host travelers and immigrantion from all around the world, they needed a currency whose value on the Moon was universally understood. So people bought cargo credits (called SLGs for "Soft-Landed Grams) and then used those for transactions on the Moon. So a single credit might change hands dozens of times before anyone actually uses it to get something shipped to the Moon.

This is how I imagine the new trade system works. You are trading in credits that are backed by logistics capacity. People with excess cargo capacity issues them in standardized units, people buy them and they change hands potentially many times before they are actually called in by someone who needs something shipped. The issuers can also trade capacity among themselves so one credit can be fulfilled by a different carrier then originally issued it if needed.

As a universal galactic currency it's not perfect and I can see potential problems, but it probably makes more sense then trading in something as transient as energy.

 

[MadCow94]

Criminal Syndicates have also had some improvements, for both their playability and for playing against them. Criminal Syndicates can now establish Commercial Pacts. Having a commercial pact with a Criminal Empire will replace all criminal buildings with their "lawful" counterpart. As long as the commercial pact remains, criminal branch offices will not be removed from the planet. All Criminal branch office buildings now produce 25 Crime and give criminal jobs in addition to regular jobs. We have also added a crime floor to non-criminal branch office buildings on empires they have a trade agreement with, which means there will always be a minimum amount of crime on the branch office planet. Criminal branch offices are also up to 25% more profitable on high crime planets.

This paragraph is unclear. Will commercial-pact Criminal Syndicates still have this minimum floor of crime? If so, there is still no reason not to destroy criminal syndicates as you still can't "peacefully" trade with them.

 

[Calvax]

This paragraph is unclear. Will commercial-pact Criminal Syndicates still have this minimum floor of crime? If so, there is still no reason not to destroy criminal syndicates as you still can't "peacefully" trade with them.

IIRC they'll set a minimum floor of crime of 20%, which is under the threshold for getting criminal events, and all of their criminal buildings will swap to the legitimate versions. So having a criminal megacorp in your empire that you have a pact with will be largely identical to the benefits of a regular megacorp, just with a minimum of crime meaning you'll have to pay closer attention to it crossing that threshold.

You probably will want to destroy them eventually but at least this way it's not so crippling if you can't (e.g. if they're very powerful or on the far side of the galaxy). In addition you can play as a criminal megacorp and get into a federation without harming your allies.

 

[Anonim97]

I admit I have a bad memory, so could someone explain to me what was the change to the Xeno-Compability?

Districts provide a base number of jobs, District Specializations provide additional jobs per District, and buildings provide Jobs.

Kinda sad in the end we got the "District Specialisations provide additional jobs" route. I really liked the "District Specialisations change the numbers of available jobs" (as in -200 Civilians, but +100 Culture workers per city district).

 

[Calvax]

I admit I have a bad memory, so could someone explain to me what was the change to the Xeno-Compability?

No more hybrid species, IIRC instead growth on a planet is averaged across all species so they grow equally.

 

[great lakes]

How would the system know which default you need on which planet? also, if you have two defaults, you don't really have a default at all do you? though that's just a naming issue.

I remember seeing that each subtype can be set to 'assimilate to default' or not. So you can use a default template, then specialize from the default as you want. Which will make conquering a mutation Biogen empire a lot less of a headache. Can't remember if it was shown in a recent stream, but I'm pretty sure that is how the beta was.

I understood that each corporate building gets the 1 per planet attribute/modifier thing added to it. Same as robot factories or whatever.

my ideal system would allocate templates using the same system as job weights - so the intelligent template would be applied to researchers, for example. the tiebreaker would be the underrepresented template.

once you start trying to specialize from a default template, you run into the same problem we have now - planetwide pop modding is not fine enough to make it work. remember, it's often correct to hyperspecslize, but some of the time there are resions not to.

 

[Newbee53]

This paragraph is unclear. Will commercial-pact Criminal Syndicates still have this minimum floor of crime? If so, there is still no reason not to destroy criminal syndicates as you still can't "peacefully" trade with them.

My understanding is that each "lawful" Criminal building you have adds to a crime floor. So that the more buildings a criminal empire has on your planet--with the commercial pact--the more crime you have at minimum. It sounds like you will want to get rid of this crime at some point or just use a lot of enforcers. but you'll have to use the war goal or maybe break the pact and start suppressing crime. This also means that without the commercial pact you will have no floor on your crime. Allowing heavy use of enforcers to still close criminal offices.

if the maximum floor is 20% then each building could give 5%. being next to uninteresting on smaller planets, and up to probably problematic if you have any crime for other reasons as well.

 

[Newbee53]

my ideal system would allocate templates using the same system as job weights - so the intelligent template would be applied to researchers, for example. the tiebreaker would be the underrepresented template.

once you start trying to specialize from a default template, you run into the same problem we have now - planetwide pop modding is not fine enough to make it work. remember, it's often correct to hyperspecslize, but some of the time there are resions not to.

Yeah, this is the main thing keeping me away from bio-ascension if I'm honest. I hate highly specialized planets with a single produced resource, finding them both ugly and uninteresting. At least the auto-modding traits are very useful to reduce this problem all around. Hopefully this will allow a mutation bio empire without needing to create mono-resource planets.

 

[great lakes]

Yeah, this is the main thing keeping me away from bio-ascension if I'm honest. I hate highly specialized planets with a single produced resource, finding them both ugly and uninteresting. At least the auto-modding traits are very useful to reduce this problem all around. Hopefully this will allow a mutation bio empire without needing to create mono-resource planets.

and also cyborgs, and the modularity traits...

i mean, this is a step in the right direction, but I wish we saw more of it.

then again, I believe that non-default templates will still assemble, but that still leaves the problem of old pops.

 

[great lakes]

as we're on the subject, driven assimilaters have a problem. assimilating pops can't colonize - fair enough - but they stay on colonization forbidden and whatnot even after they're cyborgs. can I at least have a setting to adjust for post-assimilation default rights?

 

[Mech_infect]

Thinking it over, this isn't actually the first time I've seen logistics-as-currency in sci fi.

In the novel Artimis, there is a city on the Moon that was built primarily as a luxury travel destination. Because the city had to host travelers and immigrantion from all around the world, they needed a currency whose value on the Moon was universally understood. So people bought cargo credits (called SLGs for "Soft-Landed Grams) and then used those for transactions on the Moon. So a single credit might change hands dozens of times before anyone actually uses it to get something shipped to the Moon.

This is how I imagine the new trade system works. You are trading in credits that are backed by logistics capacity. People with excess cargo capacity issues them in standardized units, people buy them and they change hands potentially many times before they are actually called in by someone who needs something shipped. The issuers can also trade capacity among themselves so one credit can be fulfilled by a different carrier then originally issued it if needed.

As a universal galactic currency it's not perfect and I can see potential problems, but it probably makes more sense then trading in something as transient as energy.

Can you please tell me more details? You are interesting but to be honest I don't understand it very well.

 

[Kataclyszm]

And now it is called "Trade Storage."

See, I'd be more inclined to take this seriously if it wasn't still called energy credits. They've been at no point unclear that 'trade value' is economic activity, logistics, and such. How does 'storing' that even work? The government got a warehouse of IOUs from space-truckers to move goods around?

It makes even less sense to be able to economically store energy than it is to store abstracted money in a bank. And by less, I mean no sense.

How doesn't it make less sense? Like, batteries exist. And I'm not talking about the dinky little things you put in flashlights, either.

I mean, why on earth would you tie your economy to something physical who's value fluxes with how common it is just stupid.

Seemed to work fine for the thousands of years we were tied to gold.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

See, I'd be more inclined to take this seriously if it wasn't still called energy credits. They've been at no point unclear that 'trade value' is economic activity, logistics, and such. How does 'storing' that even work? The government got a warehouse of IOUs from space-truckers to move goods around?

How doesn't it make less sense? Like, batteries exist. And I'm not talking about the dinky little things you put in flashlights, either.

Seemed to work fine for the thousands of years we were tied to gold.

I can't figure out how to break up a quote from my phone, so I'll just number my responses.

1) So just remove "credits" from "energy credits" to solve the discontinuity. Also, passing out IOUs is more or less how modern economics works.

2) Warehouses to store goods also exist. Trade Value essentially represents various goods that have some form of economic value. They have to put those goods somewhere. Even the Federation still put stuff in boxes and they had replicator tech.

3) True, but most currencies aren't really tied to gold anymore. The Dollar in particular is tied more to oil and military power. In your defense, oil is just energy that hasn't been refined yet.

 

[DarkHelmet110985]

While I do like getting rid of the old Trade system, I think the new one is not how I would go about it. Firstly, the new system indirectly nerfs Trade builds because half of all Trade generated now goes to the new Trade resource while the other half goes towards converting Trade into whatever your Trade Policy happens to be with no way to alter the 50/50 ratio either. If I were doing a logistics system, I would base it on distance from Sector Capitals and the Homeworld sector would have a unique bonus to help with early game logistics. This encourages players to have all Colonies within sectors as opposed to being cut off and places ever more importance on the location of Sector Capitals. As for the new logistics resource, I would instead have it be produced by Colonist jobs(on newly established colonies) and Ruler jobs after the Capital Building has been upgraded. More Ruler jobs you have, the more Logistics you’re going to have at your disposal. This reduces the burden on unproductive Civilians whose primary purpose is to find more productive work on either the planet they inhabit or a new fledgling Colony. If you want Civilians to be productive in some manner, utilize certain Living standards and/or Civics like the new Civil Education. For Gestalts, logistics can fall to Maintenance drones since that’s all they’re really good for outside of Amenities.

 

[Kataclyszm]

I can't figure out how to break up a quote from my phone, so I'll just number my responses.

1) So just remove "credits" from "energy credits" to solve the discontinuity. Also, passing out IOUs is more or less how modern economics works.

2) Warehouses to store goods also exist. Trade Value essentially represents various goods that have some form of economic value. They have to put those goods somewhere. Even the Federation still put stuff in boxes and they had replicator tech.

3) True, but most currencies aren't really tied to gold anymore. The Dollar in particular is tied more to oil and military power. In your defense, oil is just energy that hasn't been refined yet.

1) But it's not a discontinuity, because then you don't HAVE anything the represent actual currency. And how's that IOU system gonna work when that trucker died of old age and his company went under 100 years ago?

2) Goods with a form of economic value. Aka consumer goods.

3) And in the future, it's tied to energy. So what? Also iirc the dollar isn't 'tied' to anything; that's in fact a big problem.

 

[Newbee53]

How doesn't it make less sense? Like, batteries exist. And I'm not talking about the dinky little things you put in flashlights, either.

Yeah. But the conversion of energy to battery is terrible. Your best bet is to store 'energy' in bulk matter, but even there you are losing a lot. Batteries store energy in chemical bonds, and a good chunk is lost to waist heat both during charging and discharging. Gyroscopic storage requires large objects to be spun in order to story the energy. And now you have heavy spiny thing as a safety issue. Gravity storage only works on planets, as artificial gravity will definitely require energy to produce.

I don't know. Its not economic for long term storage and you will lose a lot no matter the medium. seems bad for a currency base.

Seemed to work fine for the thousands of years we were tied to gold.

And there is a reason we got rid of the gold standard. simplistically because the hording of gold followed by selling said gold at high prices--often not even intentional on the part of the people doing it--caused massive spikes and drops in value. And anything physical attached to it is just look up the price of gold and you will see massive jumps up and down. Of course there are over all trends, but if you tie your currency to a physical object its going to spike and drop rapidly. To the point of fairly accurate stability issues.

In other words, it wasn't working. It was just the best we had at the point.

This being science fiction, I should also point out that trade value--or energy credits no matter how much I hate that term--is very likely not the currency of the governments. Its far more likely a way of standardizing whatever currency two governments utilize. Its how stellaris governments calculate currency exchange rates. And for this trade value makes a lot of difference.

I mean, how else do you explain my utopia that only trades on social influence and fame selling excess resources on the galactic market? And from that point of view, it also makes sense that inefficiencies in internal logistics would affect your available trade value.

 

[Calvax]

Yeah. But the conversion of energy to battery is terrible. Your best bet is to store 'energy' in bulk matter, but even there you are losing a lot

My head canon is a standard sci fi trope: antimatter. At least for the bulk of storage while allowing for a mix based on planet resources.

 

[great lakes]

And there is a reason we got rid of the gold standard. simplistically because the hording of gold followed by selling said gold at high prices--often not even intentional on the part of the people doing it--caused massive spikes and drops in value. And anything physical attached to it is just look up the price of gold and you will see massive jumps up and down. Of course there are over all trends, but if you tie your currency to a physical object its going to spike and drop rapidly. To the point of fairly accurate stability issues.

In other words, it wasn't working. It was just the best we had at the point.

in other words, the reason we had the gold stranded was to convince people that banknotes had value. once that idea became mainstream, central banks dropped the pretense