Stellaris Dev Diary #108 - 2.0 Post-Release Support (part 1)

[CastironCassim]

I'm still having trouble subjugating other empires as a machine empire, and machines are the way to go. will there be a patch in the near future that will fix this?

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I'm still having trouble subjugating other empires as a machine empire, and machines are the way to go. will there be a patch in the near future that will fix this?

Probably. For some reason any allies in the war would also need to be full occupied in order to actually encourage the AI to surrender. You can 100% occupy the primary war participant, but they won't surrender until you occupy ALL the war participants.

 

[AlanC9]

I haven't needed to occupy all of the allies. Just enough of them to get to +1 on the peace screen.

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I haven't needed to occupy all of the allies. Just enough of them to get to +1 on the peace screen.

In my case, with a federation of 5 roughly equal sized participants, I had to occupy 3 and a half of them.

 

[FireDashRedragon]

Guys, if you get psi or cyborg pops from migration treaty can you use genetic modifcation on them, and is this possible to get a pop with psi, cyborg and biological asecnsion path traits with out mods? If it is possible, it can be a very hard achievement to get.

 

[atlervetok]

Guys, if you get psi or cyborg pops from migration treaty can you use genetic modifcation on them, and is this possible to get a pop with psi, cyborg and biological asecnsion path traits with out mods? If it is possible, it can be a very hard achievement to get.

can do with psi but not cyborg, they say self improved

 

[dollofdalborra]

Hello and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. As we are still in full post-release support mode, until we are ready to get back to regular feature dev diaries, we're not going to have full-length dev diaries. Instead, we'll use the dev diaries to highlight certain fixes or tweaks that we feel need highlighting. Today, we're going to be covering some changes coming to the 2.0.2 beta in regards to War Exhaustion and forced Status Quo.

In 2.0, with the new war system, we added forced status quo peace as part of the new war exhaustion mechanics. We felt that this mechanic was necessary to ensure that limited wars could actually happen and so that the outmatched side in a war still had a reason to fight (pushing the enemy into 100% war exhaustion in order to force peace and reduce their territorial concessions). There were some problems with this mechanic, however, primarily that people felt surprised by a sudden peace in which they might lose systems the enemy has just occupied days ago, and also that certain wars (such as subjugation wars) were very difficult to fully win before being force-peaced out.

After receiving intial player feedback on these issues, we decided to try out a different model of war exhaustion in the 2.0.2 beta, replacing the forced status quo with a penalty at 100% war exhaustion. We have since been playing, testing, tweaking and collecting further feedback, and coming to the conclusion that our original design was correct - forced peace is necessary for the new war system to not simply become a series of single wars to the death, or powerful empires forcing a weaker empire into 100% war exhaustion and refusing to peace while their enemies were crippled by penalties.

For this reason, we will be reintroducing forced status quo peace, and this time it's here to stay. However, we are not simply going to roll back to exactly the way it is in 2.0, instead it will now work as follows:
- When a side in a war reaches 100% war exhaustion, they are now flagged as being at high war exhaustion, and get the alert as before
- Once at high war exhaustion, a 24 month timer will start to tick down for that side in the war. Once the timer is up, that war side can be forced into a status quo peace
- There will be no penalties for war exhaustion, but we will leave in the functionality for modders, as well as the ability to change the number of months before a forced peace is possible or disable forced peace altogether, so that those who truly hate to the idea of ever being forced to peace can at least change it through modding

These changes should mean that a status quo peace is something that doesn't come as a sudden surprise, and give the player time to start winding down their war and retake occupied systems when that war exhaustion counter ticks over into 100%.

We are also going to look into the possibility of changing Subjugation and Forced Ideology wars to either provide a clearer path to win such a war when the enemy has allies defending them, or by allowing Status Quo in such a war to achieve a 'limited victory' (liberating/subjugating part of the enemy empire instead of the whole).

These changes will not be in the very next version of 2.0.2 (as that is already being internally tested and will hopefully be with you before the end of the week), but we expect to roll them out sometime next week if all goes well.

That's all for today! See you next week for another 2.0 post-release dev diary.
View attachment 346664

Excellent choice, just work a bit on the numbers and solve the other kinds of wargoals and this is definitely the way to go

Hello and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. As we are still in full post-release support mode, until we are ready to get back to regular feature dev diaries, we're not going to have full-length dev diaries. Instead, we'll use the dev diaries to highlight certain fixes or tweaks that we feel need highlighting. Today, we're going to be covering some changes coming to the 2.0.2 beta in regards to War Exhaustion and forced Status Quo.

In 2.0, with the new war system, we added forced status quo peace as part of the new war exhaustion mechanics. We felt that this mechanic was necessary to ensure that limited wars could actually happen and so that the outmatched side in a war still had a reason to fight (pushing the enemy into 100% war exhaustion in order to force peace and reduce their territorial concessions). There were some problems with this mechanic, however, primarily that people felt surprised by a sudden peace in which they might lose systems the enemy has just occupied days ago, and also that certain wars (such as subjugation wars) were very difficult to fully win before being force-peaced out.

After receiving intial player feedback on these issues, we decided to try out a different model of war exhaustion in the 2.0.2 beta, replacing the forced status quo with a penalty at 100% war exhaustion. We have since been playing, testing, tweaking and collecting further feedback, and coming to the conclusion that our original design was correct - forced peace is necessary for the new war system to not simply become a series of single wars to the death, or powerful empires forcing a weaker empire into 100% war exhaustion and refusing to peace while their enemies were crippled by penalties.

For this reason, we will be reintroducing forced status quo peace, and this time it's here to stay. However, we are not simply going to roll back to exactly the way it is in 2.0, instead it will now work as follows:
- When a side in a war reaches 100% war exhaustion, they are now flagged as being at high war exhaustion, and get the alert as before
- Once at high war exhaustion, a 24 month timer will start to tick down for that side in the war. Once the timer is up, that war side can be forced into a status quo peace
- There will be no penalties for war exhaustion, but we will leave in the functionality for modders, as well as the ability to change the number of months before a forced peace is possible or disable forced peace altogether, so that those who truly hate to the idea of ever being forced to peace can at least change it through modding

These changes should mean that a status quo peace is something that doesn't come as a sudden surprise, and give the player time to start winding down their war and retake occupied systems when that war exhaustion counter ticks over into 100%.

We are also going to look into the possibility of changing Subjugation and Forced Ideology wars to either provide a clearer path to win such a war when the enemy has allies defending them, or by allowing Status Quo in such a war to achieve a 'limited victory' (liberating/subjugating part of the enemy empire instead of the whole).

These changes will not be in the very next version of 2.0.2 (as that is already being internally tested and will hopefully be with you before the end of the week), but we expect to roll them out sometime next week if all goes well.

That's all for today! See you next week for another 2.0 post-release dev diary.
View attachment 346664

hi just so u know if you make it forced or only fixable by mods I don't use mods hate them so if that's your only option I will be demanding a refund from steam of the almost 100 dollars I spent on your game as its not what I paid for I hate beta games as they are always buggy if I knew you were going to do this I wouldn't of got the game plus I'm still running the 2.0.1 patch not the 2.0.2 but still have all the bugs and issues such as forced surrender on wars jump drives not working as implied psi jump drive don't work ether the enigmatic fortress is broken no research available for the last ascendency perk and many other little things that are messed up atm oh and I love the fact that all my saved games don't work now as they are of a older model do you understand how frustrating that is to have spent so much time just to have to start all over again and the only option you give is to take it back to a previous version that's cool if I wasn't computer stupid and could actually do something like that for you programers that may be easy for people like me its not as for your beta patch it seas you needed to opt into it as I haven't can you plz explain to me why my version of it has all the same issues as the beta really looking forward to your response on these issues

 

[James Fire]

hi just so u know if you make it forced or only fixable by mods I don't use mods hate them so if that's your only option I will be demanding a refund from steam of the almost 100 dollars I spent on your game as its not what I paid for I hate beta games as they are always buggy if I knew you were going to do this I wouldn't of got the game plus I'm still running the 2.0.1 patch not the 2.0.2 but still have all the bugs and issues such as forced surrender on wars jump drives not working as implied psi jump drive don't work ether the enigmatic fortress is broken no research available for the last ascendency perk and many other little things that are messed up atm oh and I love the fact that all my saved games don't work now as they are of a older model do you understand how frustrating that is to have spent so much time just to have to start all over again and the only option you give is to take it back to a previous version that's cool if I wasn't computer stupid and could actually do something like that for you programers that may be easy for people like me its not as for your beta patch it seas you needed to opt into it as I haven't can you plz explain to me why my version of it has all the same issues as the beta really looking forward to your response on these issues

"Since the game is not going the way I want it to, and I absolutely refuse to use the provided method of fixing, I am going to complain to steam.

And this is only because I am an idiot when it comes to computers, so I would be unable to fix it."

Nevermind the fact that others would make the mod and all you need to do is subscribe.

 

[dollofdalborra]

maybe you missed the bit where I sead I hate mods and don't use them but thanks for linking them anyways and as I sead I'm computer stupid so I don't mess with files or any other setting bar the in game options I'm given but feel free to belittle me any way you like as you are a mod developer you think computers are easy for anyone to use but forget that not all of us were born with this tech

 

[DarwinPon_y]

@Wiz Is it possible to add ways to remove other empire's claims on your own systems?

I've actually been able to subjugate a lot of empires under the current system, but problem is my subjects usually have a lot of claims on my systems and this makes their attitudes towards me get worse over time, even at 150 trust the opinion is still a BIG negative.

I would suggest maybe add a Humiliate option in the diplomacy interface, similar to the FE's humiliate option, that removes all previous claims on the player's systems. If the other empire refuses, then the player empire would be allowed to start a war of humiliation, even if the other empire is a subject.

Either this or add a way to peacefully remove claims, instead of simply integrating the entire subject that is, because subjects are often really big, plus the player (myself included) might not always want to take ownership of all the subject's systems.

Please consider this suggestion

 

[James Fire]

maybe you missed the bit where I sead I hate mods and don't use them but thanks for linking them anyways and as I sead I'm computer stupid so I don't mess with files or any other setting bar the in game options I'm given but feel free to belittle me any way you like as you are a mod developer you think computers are easy for anyone to use but forget that not all of us were born with this tech

Maybe you missed the part where I not only didn't link any mods, but directly stated that you don't even need to be a programmer, as someone else will make the mod anyway. But thanks for nothing.

 

[Phoenix32]

maybe you missed the bit where I sead I hate mods and don't use them but thanks for linking them anyways and as I sead I'm computer stupid so I don't mess with files or any other setting bar the in game options I'm given but feel free to belittle me any way you like as you are a mod developer you think computers are easy for anyone to use but forget that not all of us were born with this tech

Use punctuation if you want to be understood and taken more seriously.

That said, you don't need to change any files to roll back to a previous version, you just have to right click the game in steam and pick an older version. Steam will do the rest. There is a guide stickied in this very forum explaining the very simple process step by step.

If you don't want to use mods, for some untold reason, then you will have to accept that the game is the way it is. Every change is going to make someone unhappy, and the alternative (nothing ever changing) would kill the game.

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

While I agree with your changes to war exhaustion, Currently in the beta 2.0.2 the Ai have problems with basic economic management. There all starving to death. This is not a higher priority to fix over war exhaustion?

There are no war games without an opponent. And ai’s ( even on insane difficulty ) can’t build ships.

Second this. I finally got around to getting I Can See Forever, and all I see is a galaxy suffering through famine, despite having dozens if not hundreds of undeveloped food tiles. They don't fix the problem, and it only really gets solved when I finally get around to using my nanobot dispersal array to assimilate them so they no longer need food. Don't get me wrong, starving pops make less resources, which means less enemy ships to hunt, but it seems kinda broken and should probably get fixed sooner rather than later.

 

[AlanC9]

In my case, with a federation of 5 roughly equal sized participants, I had to occupy 3 and a half of them.

I suppose how this plays out depends on the sizes of the various empires involved, and the formula for occupation score.

Come to think of it, how the hell is Occupation calculated?

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

i hope you'll fix a problem where claims have a negative effect on interaction between empires for the entire game (most crucial for the interactions between the Lord and newly subjugated Vassal, making him permanently disloyal)

also a fix to the interaction of the colossus and pacifist would be nice. right now it's broken sometims, leading to total inability to wage wars. yet the can take and build one.

For the first one, just revoke your claims. You know you can do that, right?

Edit: didn't know that vassal claims on you was what was being referred to. I apologize.

 

[James Fire]

For the first one, just revoke your claims. You know you can do that, right?

No, you can't revoke your vassals claims.

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

No, you can't revoke your vassals claims.

Ah. Didn't know that because I haven't encountered that yet. Assimilation, pampering, or galactic extermination doesn't really leave room for petty things like vassals. Sorry. There should probably be a mechanic for that, like a force vassal revoking claims the nation in question has on you.

 

[dollofdalborra]

Use punctuation if you want to be understood and taken more seriously.

That said, you don't need to change any files to roll back to a previous version, you just have to right click the game in steam and pick an older version. Steam will do the rest. There is a guide stickied in this very forum explaining the very simple process step by step.

If you don't want to use mods, for some untold reason, then you will have to accept that the game is the way it is. Every change is going to make someone unhappy, and the alternative (nothing ever changing) would kill the game.

sorry grammar Nazi I didn't get the education you did and I don't think it would kill the game to leave it the way it was and only change it for those who got the new expansion then those that wanted something new can get it those of us who wanted it the way it was could of had that 2 telling me its simple to do is fine as I have said I'm no good with computers and every time I have tried to use a mod or a modded game there is issues with stability and sometimes even loosening saved game files as they become corrupted thanks for teasing my grammar much appreciated

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

Yeah, the problem now is that only limited wars can happen, because they all have this inherent time limit.

If we're going to stick with this rigid and prescriptive system (and I think we probably should, because it works well on paper) then we need more war goals - enough that the player can explicitly declare a war goal that matches their true objective for starting the war, not start a war for unrelated reasons and hope they can somehow engineer claims/war goal system to get the right outcome before the time limit runs out. We need the war exhaustion and forced peace (or lack of) to depend on those war goals, because a nations willingness to fight on is going to be vastly different depending on what they might lose in peace and the current system takes no account of this.

Besides this, or also doesn't really take into account that some empires will tire of conflict faster ire slower regardless of goal, though it should certainly factor in. Militarists should gain it at a reduced percentage, even more so if they're winning (all empires would realistically get tired at a slower rate if they're wining, because the people see victory on the horizon and are willing to tolerate a bit more hardship to reach it. A Gestalt consciousness should gain it even slower, as hive mind wouldn't care about the loss of a few hundred thousand drones to take a planet, and would only really start feelling the hurt (and in large amounts) of they start losing worlds. Machine intelligences wouldn't really care about casualties at all, so long as the casualties aren't so massive that the resource drain makes them unable to keep fighting.

 

[makaramus]

and dear friends... WE FREAKING (yea I had to change that word but you know it) WON!
No more ETHERNAL wars!