Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of the Galactic Market. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

The Market
The Market is a new interface accessible from your topbar, where you can buy and sell resources. Resources are bought and sold for Energy Credits, with their prices dependent on a variety of factors such as whether the Galactic Market is founded, supply and demand, and possibly also from various events. On top of the actual price of the resource, there is also a Market Fee which has to be paid for any sale or purchase, equal to 30% of the purchase value. This Market Fee is there so that it will not be possible to make money by purchasing and then immediately re-selling resources at a higher price. Resources can be purchased either in bulk, or by setting up a monthly trade, where you for example specify that you want to sell 20 food and buy 10 minerals per month, and can set a minimum sale/maximum purchase price, if you want to ensure that major fluctuations in price do not disrupt your empire's economy too much.

Internal vs Galactic Market
At the start of the game, empires only have access to the Internal Market, which represents trading with actors inside your empire such as corporations and local governments, or in the case of Gestalt Consciousness empires, resource reprocessing. The prices on the Internal Market are set to always be higher than those on the Galactic Market, so relying too heavily on trading will be disadvantageous in the first few decades of the game. Some empires, such as Devouring Swarms, may only ever have access to the Internal Market (this is something we're still testing and balancing) and so might get better prices there. Once the game has progressed to the point where at least one empire knows about at least 50% of the other empires in the galaxy, the Galactic Market will eventually be founded. One empire that meets the criteria is picked as Market Founder, and their capital system becomes the Market Capital, spawning a special station and map marker to denote it. From then on, any empire (barring possible restrictions for Devouring Swarms and the like) that knows of the Market Capital system has access to the Galactic Market and is able to trade on it. The controller of the Market Capital get a reduction in their Market Fee and increased trade value for their trade routes (more on that in a later DD).

Prices on the Galactic Market are always lower than those on the internal market, though the actual prices will fluctuate based on supply and demand - every time Minerals are sold on the market, prices will drop, and conversely, every time they are bought prices will increase. The purchases and sales you make on the Galactic Market do not just affect your own prices but also those of other empires, so that it is possible to for example massively drive up Food prices by purchasing a huge amount of food, damaging the economy of any empire that is reliant on importing it. It isn't actually possible for a resource to 'run out' on the Market, so you will always be able to purchase critically needed resources, though the cost of doing so may be extremely prohibitive. However, some resources (such as Dark Matter and other rare strategic resources) will not be available until they are actually accessible to empires on the market in large enough quantities, and are not available on the Internal Market at all. The aim of the Galactic Market is to make it so that it is actually a viable strategy to specialize your economy, importing resources that are difficulty for your empire to produce and exporting resources that you can produce easily in large quantities.

Trader Enclaves
Since the Market has much of the same functionality as the Trader Enclaves from Leviathans, we're also changing said Enclaves for those with the Leviathans Story Pack. Instead of trading food, energy and minerals, Trader Enclaves will sell rare resources (Rare Crystals, Volatile Motes and Exotic Gases) in the form of monthly trade deals offered at advantageous prices. Each Trader Enclave will offer only one of these resources. Additionally, once you reach 50+ opinion, Trader Enclaves will sell special Governor-type leaders with unique, trade and commerce related traits. Finally, if you control the home system of a Trader Enclave AND have 50+ opinion with them, you will be able to build a special Starbase building in that system which lowers your Market Fee, allowing for cheaper trading on the Galactic Market.

Finally, just a note to say that we're ignoring the Slave Market tab of the Market screenshots on purpose - this is something that will be covered in a later DD.

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Sectors and Factions.

 

[kbernges]

Wiz, what of non-market economies with full state control and central planning? Is there anything to sort of simulate that sort of internal economic management in the new system?

 

[methegrate]

Not sure I'm thrilled about a random empire getting a discount.

Maybe they have to work for it? For example, when a certain criterion is met, everyone gets a special project. First to complete it gets the prize. If there is a tie, than its the one who has the most "extra" (like if it had 200 to to and one empire could have added 500 and another 300, the first would get it). As another tie breaker (just in case) its whom ever is producing the most energy. In the off chance that there is STILL a tie, than its random, defaulting to the player empire.

Isn't that more or less what's happening here? The special project is to explore enough of the galaxy to meet half of its inhabitants. The first empire to do that wins the prize. It isn't random, it's based on how much your empire pushes to explore strange new worlds and meet new civilizations.

 

[nweismuller]

Wiz, what of non-market economies with full state control and central planning? Is there anything to sort of simulate that sort of internal economic management in the new system?

The internal market is still covering you. Note that even gestalt consciousnesses can use it to represent resource reprocessing. Your central planning is just, for instance, prioritising additional production of metals in the next Five Year Plan when you 'buy' minerals on the internal market.

 

[ius]

Don't forget Science ships unlike Corvettes need a Scientist to steer them, as such are limited by the leaders cap and the energy cost is fairly high early on.

Not to say that it will be a good move to invest some more in exploration and map trading.

Remember the mass-corvete exploration? It would be the same thing: Build a lot of science vessels and simple randomly move throught the galaxy so you form the Galactic Market as soon as possible. This don't sound organic at all...

 

[Draconaes]

So this galaxy market is totally free? You can influence prices but no way to embargo or favor someone?

If i'm playing some pacifist empire and have a lot of alloys to sells then i have no interest to indirectly supply warmongers. How can i avoid that other than to not put my alloys on market?

Solution: Don't sell your alloys to the market. Prices do not go down, warmongers do not get cheaper alloys.

 

[Death Dragon]

I've really enjoyed the Le Guinn changes up until now, but I have serious misgivings about the galactic market. It feels devised as a severe abstraction of a "market" and feels like it was constructed by someone whose only knowledge of markets comes from playing video games. I'd much prefer a more involved and intricate system, something like being able to set up local markets through economic treatise with neighboring empires, so that economy focused empires can start trading earlier and use their clout to build relationships with neighbors. Later on, empires could become members of more than one trading bloc, with the possibility of trading resources between blocs by buying low and selling high. Among other things, this model makes for a much more dynamic galaxy where trade relations are a significant factor in empire relations, and wars that could be won or lost based on a trading blocs ability to supply resources. It also generates new diplomatic channels, such as a war where one member of one trading bloc is at war and other members of the bloc could supply resources for the war without actually being involved in it.. perhaps to the detriment of their political standing with the opposing faction.

Despite my personal wishes, the galactic market as outlined still appears to have major problems:

1. The map size and number of civilizations will drastically affect how soon 50% of empires have been identified. Also empires regularly fracture and new civilizations achieve interplanetary flight, changing the number of empires in existence constantly. This feels like a completely arbitrary measurement that has no actual bearing on economies, and one which could be met on smaller maps by fracturing a neighboring empire through war, rather than by exploring and finding other civilizations.
2. It doesn't make any sense that I can't "trade" with my neighbors until the galactic market is established.
3. The arbitrary nature of the trading capital location, combined with it's benefits to the controlling empire, seems nonsensical.
4. On a large map or a map with many civilizations, I may not have the fortune of finding the empire with the trading capital until the late game. It seems absurd that my neighboring civ could be trading across the galaxy while I'm cut off, just because of the arbitrary placement of an arbitrary trade capital. My empire's actions shouldn't be dependent on the actions or existence of another empire I've never met.

Totally agree with this post. I'm hopeful that this update will make it possible for a big overhaul mod like MEIOU to spawn and make things like the market more interesting.
Would be cool if instead of this one galactic market, the empires you have trade treaties with would have their personal markets merged with yours, so you end up with a couple sprawling trade alliances in the galaxy. These trade alliances could then be merged with other trade alliances or maybe even be developed into a proper federation.
Months ago I saw someone suggest that federations should be formed by having a number of different treaties with empires, so that you start out with only trade alliances or military and tech alliances, but then once you have all of the treaties with an empire, it should automatically transform into a federation. This would be a step into making this a possibility.

 

[Rillianne]

Will an empire controling the galactic trade hub be able to destroy it? I think it would be a nice adittion: give some resources to the empire that destroys it and a huge negative relations modifier with every other empire. Then the hub gets reconstructed elsewhere a few years later.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

Hmm... I wonder if they are going to change up the first contact aspect of Stellaris. I know they mentioned it before.
I believe they said that your first few contacts would be a much bigger deal than your later ones.

 

[ius]

"Have you ever heard of the Australia Project?"

How should i imagine energy credits?

 

[Zetesofos]

Hmm... I wonder if they are going to change up the first contact aspect of Stellaris. I know they mentioned it before.
I believe they said that your first few contacts would be a much bigger deal than your later ones.

Well, one of the options you get when you find contacts is sharing communications - that might be a bit more important now whether you give that info away freely.

 

[Leo103]

Will the trade of planets be affected by criminal presence?

 

[NilsFabian]

Hmm so the market will be founded by anyone who had met 50% of the Empires?
There should be some Advantages for Xenophile Empires.

It seems weird that a xenophobe empire should be happy to have the central galactic market orbiting the same sun as the holy motherworld.

 

[Ixal]

Solution: Don't sell your alloys to the market. Prices do not go down, warmongers do not get cheaper alloys.

Solution 2: Buy alloys to drive the price up and sell the excess on the internal market to recoup some energy.
Solution 2.5: Don't produce much alloys in the first place so your purchases are not wasted.

 

[Akrasjel]

That looks interesting

 

[AllenO'Neil]

How easily or challenging is it to fluctuate prices? Does monthly trade fluctuate prices? If so how difficult is it to make relying on trading a certain resource a viable strategy?

 

[Waverunner]

I can't wait to buy Xeno filth on the Slave Market and feed them to the pure species. Making them an army as mere cannon fodder against their own empire is also gonna be quite fun.

 

[thedarkendstar]

I see we really are getting vicky 3

 

[pengoyo]

Will the global market ever move?

For example, if the owner wants to move it to a non-capital system, another empire that's more trade friendly convince it to move to them, or the devouring swarm takes over its system.

 

[Everstill]

That's why "first come first serve" way of spawning it isn't any good.

Yep, it's a very bad mechanic.

But, I imagine they are doing this way because it's the fastest, cheapest and easiest way to program. And the band-aid fix for it is basically only letting the AI empires forming the Galactic Market, otherwise the humans will exploit it.

 

[John Rusher]

I understand why Devouring Swarm would not trade with other countries but hear me out :
Fanatic Purifiers can trade with same race as they are.
Determined Exterminators only hate Organics, they can have normal relationships with other machines. Including Ascended Organics that decided to become Machines.

Wouldn't it be silly if they were excluded from Galactic market?

Also, if everyone is Fanatic Purifier, will the Galactic market ever spawn?