• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #127 - Trade Value and Trade Routes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Trade Value
Trade Value is a new value that's being added in the Le Guin update for non-Gestalt empires, representing the civilian and private-sector economies of these empires. All Pops generate a small amount of Trade Value based on their living standards, with higher living standard Pops generating more trade value, and is also produced by a number of different jobs such as Clerks and Merchants. Additionally, Trade Value can be found as deposits in space, representing various resources that don't have a direct industrial application but might still be desirable to your population (for a real-life example, think of things like as precious stones used in jewelry). Trade Value has no inherent purpose, but can be turned into other resources by being exploited, representing taxation and tariffs imposed on the civilian economy by an empire that has the necessary infrastructure in place to benefit from it.
2018_09_27_1.png

In order for Trade Value to count as exploited, it has to fulfill two conditions:

1) There must be an upgraded Starbase in range from the system to collect the Trade Value. By default, upgraded Starbases can only collect inside their own system, but their collection range can be extended by constructing additional Trade Hub modules, with each module extending the collection range by a single system up to a maximum of 6 hyperlane jumps away. You do not need to build an orbital station to collect trade value from planets - this is done automatically if it is in range of a collecting Starbase.

2) Once collected, Trade Value needs to be sent to your capital system. This will be done automatically if the Starbase collecting is located in said capital system, but otherwise the Starbase must be connected to the capital through a Trade Route (more on that below).

Trade Value that is successfully exploited will be converted into other resources (currently, trade value is turned into energy credits at a 1:1 conversion rate, but which exact resources it becomes is fully scriptable and may differ depending on your empire type) and added to your monthly income.
2018_09_27_1_2.png


Trade Routes
Trade Routes are paths are that used to connect remote Starbases to your capital in order to exploit the trade value collected there. Each upgraded Starbase can support a single Trade Route by connecting to another Starbase, which is where the first Starbase will send all of its collected trade value. For example, an empire might have a remote Starbase (we'll call it starbase A), which is sending trade value to another Starbase closer to the capital (starbase B), which in turn sends on both its collected trade and all trade sent to it by starbase A on to the capital. The player has full control over which Starbase sends its value where, and can redraw routes, though there may be an efficiency loss on a newly drawn route for a time.

This means that if starbase A collects a value of 10 from the systems around it, and starbase B collects 15, 10 value will be sent from A to B and all 25 combined value is then sent on to C (the capital) and is successfully exploited. Any trade value that fails to reach the capital, either because of lack of collection, lack of a route, or piracy (more on that below) is wasted - the empire gets no benefits from it - so it'll be especially important to ensure any populous colonies that are generating a lot of trade value are properly connected via trade routes to your capital.

Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
2018_09_27_2.png

(Ignore any weird visuals such as sector borders, it's just a bug)

Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
2018_09_27_3.png


Additionally, any military fleet can be given orders to patrol a route between two Starbases to actively eliminate pirates and reduce the amount of piracy in the systems. The old system of spawning pirate ships in empty systems adjacent to your empire will also change - instead, pirate fleets may spawn in systems where a large amount of trade value is being lost to pirates. Overall, pirate fleets is something you will experience less often and can actively work to prevent, but will be more of an actual threat when they do spawn. We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty. We may also have a system similar to the old pirates for Gestalts, since they do not have access to Trade Value or Trade Routes.
2018_09_27_4.png

(Yes, we know the grammar/spelling is wrong, no need to point it out - the icons are also placeholders)

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Decisions and Planetary Bombardment

EDIT: Since it keeps being asked, at this point we are not ready to talk about how trade trades/trade agreements with other empires will work, only that they will exist in some form.
 
Last edited:
The difference is, that fixed states work in EU, CK and HOI because they reflect existing places. meanwhile the galaxy gets randomly generated each time you press play. There's no way it's gonna work nearly as well here.
Stars already pop in some sort of clustered way with only a handful of chokepoints going out of those clusters. I believe the code for all that is already there.
 
There will be some sort of trade agreements between empires, but we're not ready to talk about that yet.
Anyone know what did this trade agreement feature ended up being?

If i am reading this right, you cannot have your trade route pass through neutral space since trade value must pass through your owned systems. I recognize it being interrupted when at war with someone but what if a neutral empires has 5 spaces between my maxed out starbase and another of my controlled starbase systems? Technically it should reach because Id have 6 ranges, but is it just not allowed to be a viable route?
 
Anyone know what did this trade agreement feature ended up being?

If i am reading this right, you cannot have your trade route pass through neutral space since trade value must pass through your owned systems. I recognize it being interrupted when at war with someone but what if a neutral empires has 5 spaces between my maxed out starbase and another of my controlled starbase systems? Technically it should reach because Id have 6 ranges, but is it just not allowed to be a viable route?

As far I am aware there is the corp athuority's branch office and commerce treaty via diplomacy.

Trading is currently entirely internal (both collecting and forward). Or exchange on internal/galactic market.
 
Anyone know what did this trade agreement feature ended up being?

If i am reading this right, you cannot have your trade route pass through neutral space since trade value must pass through your owned systems. I recognize it being interrupted when at war with someone but what if a neutral empires has 5 spaces between my maxed out starbase and another of my controlled starbase systems? Technically it should reach because Id have 6 ranges, but is it just not allowed to be a viable route?
It ended up being the Commerical Pact. Basically, depending on how much Trade Value empire A is getting, empire B gets energy, and vice versa. It also depends on Trade Policy, so if empire A is using Marketplace of Ideas, empire B gets a bit of energy and unity.

Non-Criminal Megacorps need a Pact to build branch offices, and Federations have a commercial pact with each other automatically.
 
Interesting. Thank you guys! I guess that means my trade route cannot pass through other empires regardless of a lack of hostility to mine
It ended up being the Commerical Pact. Basically, depending on how much Trade Value empire A is getting, empire B gets energy, and vice versa. It also depends on Trade Policy, so if empire A is using Marketplace of Ideas, empire B gets a bit of energy and unity.

Non-Criminal Megacorps need a Pact to build branch offices, and Federations have a commercial pact with each other automatically.
Are the automatic federation commercial pacts separate from any that might have existed prior to joining? If not, do they still have a monthly influence cost?
 
Interesting. Thank you guys! I guess that means my trade route cannot pass through other empires regardless of a lack of hostility to mine Are the automatic federation commercial pacts separate from any that might have existed prior to joining? If not, do they still have a monthly influence cost?
The automatic commercial pacts don't cost influence, and don't cause AI empires to have an increased reluctance due to 'existing commercial pacts', the same way a Federation's 'defensive pact' effect does't cost influence. Unlike the defensive pact effect, you can still form Commercial Pacts to members outside of the federation.
 
^Very useful info!

As far I am aware there is the corp athuority's branch office and commerce treaty via diplomacy.

Trading is currently entirely internal (both collecting and forward). Or exchange on internal/galactic market.
Is the latter actually true? Look at this picture is the trade route not passing through another empires space?

https://i.redd.it/901hqnz8dh321.png
 
^Very useful info!

Is the latter actually true? Look at this picture is the trade route not passing through another empires space?

https://i.redd.it/901hqnz8dh321.png
That 'other empire' is Choor's Compass, which is a special case empire. But even without that I do, indeed, think your trade routes can pass through other people's systems. Normally this isn't an issue, as unless you have ENORMOUS border gore the shortest path for a Trade Route to take stays inside the empire.

Once you start getting Gateways and L-Clusters into the mix, though...
 
That 'other empire' is Choor's Compass, which is a special case empire. But even without that I do, indeed, think your trade routes can pass through other people's systems. Normally this isn't an issue, as unless you have ENORMOUS border gore the shortest path for a Trade Route to take stays inside the empire.

Once you start getting Gateways and L-Clusters into the mix, though...
whats the special case? and actually I do lol. I mentioned earlier i am really suffering from a bad start multiple negative modifier planets and small ones too. Thats why I am tempted to spend 600+ influence to block off another empire+get the adjacent resources. Im already at 90 empire size and 70 cohesion though so Idk if itll be worth it. I do have 1 cluster, 1 gateway and 1 wormhome right next to each other though. I have a feeling thats the reason I had such a bad starting position

Anyway good to know I can run a trade route through neutral space now if only I could figure out where a future gateway leads to because otherwise I dont see how I can connect my lands together and/or minimize the ensuing cohesion loss.
 
If i am reading this right, you cannot have your trade route pass through neutral space since trade value must pass through your owned systems. I recognize it being interrupted when at war with someone but what if a neutral empires has 5 spaces between my maxed out starbase and another of my controlled starbase systems? Technically it should reach because Id have 6 ranges, but is it just not allowed to be a viable route?
Trade routes only go between starbases of yours, but they can go through neutral or other empire space. The trick is that your starbase trade protection won't extend beyond your claimed space, so neutral legs can get very "piratey"; the solution is to patrol the route with your navy. Small fleets of corvettes work well for this - in the late game I have seen them take on such actual pirate fleets as still spawn on their own as part of a routine patrol, too.