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Stellaris Dev Diary #127 - Trade Value and Trade Routes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Trade Value
Trade Value is a new value that's being added in the Le Guin update for non-Gestalt empires, representing the civilian and private-sector economies of these empires. All Pops generate a small amount of Trade Value based on their living standards, with higher living standard Pops generating more trade value, and is also produced by a number of different jobs such as Clerks and Merchants. Additionally, Trade Value can be found as deposits in space, representing various resources that don't have a direct industrial application but might still be desirable to your population (for a real-life example, think of things like as precious stones used in jewelry). Trade Value has no inherent purpose, but can be turned into other resources by being exploited, representing taxation and tariffs imposed on the civilian economy by an empire that has the necessary infrastructure in place to benefit from it.
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In order for Trade Value to count as exploited, it has to fulfill two conditions:

1) There must be an upgraded Starbase in range from the system to collect the Trade Value. By default, upgraded Starbases can only collect inside their own system, but their collection range can be extended by constructing additional Trade Hub modules, with each module extending the collection range by a single system up to a maximum of 6 hyperlane jumps away. You do not need to build an orbital station to collect trade value from planets - this is done automatically if it is in range of a collecting Starbase.

2) Once collected, Trade Value needs to be sent to your capital system. This will be done automatically if the Starbase collecting is located in said capital system, but otherwise the Starbase must be connected to the capital through a Trade Route (more on that below).

Trade Value that is successfully exploited will be converted into other resources (currently, trade value is turned into energy credits at a 1:1 conversion rate, but which exact resources it becomes is fully scriptable and may differ depending on your empire type) and added to your monthly income.
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Trade Routes
Trade Routes are paths are that used to connect remote Starbases to your capital in order to exploit the trade value collected there. Each upgraded Starbase can support a single Trade Route by connecting to another Starbase, which is where the first Starbase will send all of its collected trade value. For example, an empire might have a remote Starbase (we'll call it starbase A), which is sending trade value to another Starbase closer to the capital (starbase B), which in turn sends on both its collected trade and all trade sent to it by starbase A on to the capital. The player has full control over which Starbase sends its value where, and can redraw routes, though there may be an efficiency loss on a newly drawn route for a time.

This means that if starbase A collects a value of 10 from the systems around it, and starbase B collects 15, 10 value will be sent from A to B and all 25 combined value is then sent on to C (the capital) and is successfully exploited. Any trade value that fails to reach the capital, either because of lack of collection, lack of a route, or piracy (more on that below) is wasted - the empire gets no benefits from it - so it'll be especially important to ensure any populous colonies that are generating a lot of trade value are properly connected via trade routes to your capital.

Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
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(Ignore any weird visuals such as sector borders, it's just a bug)

Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
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Additionally, any military fleet can be given orders to patrol a route between two Starbases to actively eliminate pirates and reduce the amount of piracy in the systems. The old system of spawning pirate ships in empty systems adjacent to your empire will also change - instead, pirate fleets may spawn in systems where a large amount of trade value is being lost to pirates. Overall, pirate fleets is something you will experience less often and can actively work to prevent, but will be more of an actual threat when they do spawn. We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty. We may also have a system similar to the old pirates for Gestalts, since they do not have access to Trade Value or Trade Routes.
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(Yes, we know the grammar/spelling is wrong, no need to point it out - the icons are also placeholders)

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Decisions and Planetary Bombardment

EDIT: Since it keeps being asked, at this point we are not ready to talk about how trade trades/trade agreements with other empires will work, only that they will exist in some form.
 
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For me this trade routes and trade starbases look extremely boring with no any depth or choice.

I would prefer automatic trade network generation (based on planet trade value), so some developed systems will naturally become trade hubs.
 
For me this trade routes and trade starbases look extremely boring with no any depth or choice.

I would prefer automatic trade network generation (based on planet trade value), so some developed systems will naturally become trade hubs.

It certainly does need something dynamic, I'd agree.

Personally I think the system looks like a great setup for a trade mechanic. Straightforward, easy to understand, but with several points where things can change or go wrong. I do think I would have had trade convert into a %-discount on the internal and galactic markets so that it's less linear, but that's just me.

What it needs next is uncertainty. If I set up my trade route, build a few hangars to keep piracy low, and station a fleet on the route, now what? Something needs to threaten the stability of that route. Pirates... maybe? But is there a good way to keep that engaging? If pirates are strong it'll feel like I'm under attack from the RNG. If they're weak then I just routinely squish them. I mean, it's a really good thing to have, but I'm not sure it's enough.

That's why I'm in favor of raiding and privateers. Having trade routes vulnerable to other players gives us unpredictability, but in a way that doesn't feel like you're just getting jumped by the dice.
 
Will we see alterations to starbase level cap or additional slots in starbases to accommodate the requirements for trade buildings? I'm always up against the cap as it is and it's never enough.
 
Sorry if this has already been asked but id rather not trawl through 19 pages, It seems that the capitol can only have trade input into it and that it cant output trade? Have i misunderstood or what?
 
Sorry if this has already been asked but id rather not trawl through 19 pages, It seems that the capitol can only have trade input into it and that it cant output trade? Have i misunderstood or what?

Trade value is collected by trade modules in star bases, but is only exploited when it is shipped to the capital. Meaning that if the capital system has a trade module in its starbase it will automatically collect and exploit all trade value in the capital system.
 
I appreciate that the mechanics of this seem set, but I've been pondering this with some of the points being made, and, thinking, what if trade wasn't a fixed amount but a multiplier?

Trade in "the real world" is about access to markets. Being close to a major trade hub multiplies existing activity on both ends.

Suppose you have a starbase with an "area of influence" (already existing mechanic). A trade route would increase yields within this area of influence. If the yield multiplier "sent" down the trade route was figured out from existing yields at the other end, this would be even better.

So, for eg, take the following set of bases and the yields within their area of influence. For simplicity I've just said "trade value" is the sum of everything produced in the system.
Code:
Base       Energy    Minerals    Food    Other    Trade Value
Capital       128          80      60       20            288
Outpost 1      60          50      60        5            175
Energy Hub    140          25      10        0            175
Mineral Hub    30         150      22       15            217

Suppose that the yield "bonus" = 2% of the specific resource + 1% of the trade value, that produces something like this:
Code:
Base         Energy Minerals   Food  Other
Capital       5.44%    4.48%  4.08%  3.28%
Outpost 1     2.95%    2.75%  2.95%  1.85%
Energy Hub    4.55%    2.25%  1.95%  1.75%
Mineral Hub   2.77%    5.17%  2.61%  2.47%

So from this we can work out that if each of the bases has a route to the capital, they will get a boost of 5.44% to energy production and 4.48% to mineral production, while the capital itself gets a boost of 10.27% to energy and 10.17% to minerals, i.e. the sum of all the other trade route bonuses.

I haven't balanced out these numbers but it seems like an idea to boost things across the board rather than just accumulating "tax."

(EDIT: Also there are some potential tricks here to reward "tall" gameplay by stacking bonuses, I'm sure!)
 
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im glad that it doesnt "require" empire - crosstrade, so isolationistic empires dont loose out on that feature
 
im glad that it doesnt "require" empire - crosstrade, so isolationistic empires dont loose out on that feature

I imagine isolationists will still be able to trade just fine with other empires, currently when I play or play with isolationists research and resource trading is common, they just don't want immigration or military involvement.

It's barbaric despoilers and fanatic purifiers that will probably have fewer options, and of course Gestalt doesn't use it at all (but gets other mechanics to balance it out).
 
Someone said this in another Dev Diary but everything is looking so good it makes me not want to play Stellaris in its current form :D! Its like wanting to play Risk but all you have is checkers.

I hope there is a potential for 'Galactic Trade Routes' to develop along prosperous trade routes near each other, maybe leading back to the galactic trade hub. This could provide bonuses/opportunities to tax said route, or just a straight up % buff to trade goods. Maybe this is a DLC feature we can expect with the premium content ;)

I'm speculating that the slave market will have a separate hub that spawns in either a nomad territory or some despoilers empire.
 
Another interesting idea: Instead of trade value all being converted into one resource, what if there were % based sliders for how much of the value was made into what resources? 30% to luxury goods, 35% to alloys, 35% to energy credits.
 
I feel like another place for a trade collection point could be the planet in the system where the galactic market is located. Could give players an extra incentive to try and control the market.

Maybe even some civics or government types can designate a planet as a trade capital that acts as another collection point.
 
I remember it being mentioned in a video by wiz, but apparently the art budget has been pretty used up. I personally would love a DLC similar to the ones in CKII that is purely graphic.

One thing in particular I've seen people mention a few times is different backgrounds for planets of different types/stages. Planets with a high number of farming/mining districts would have an appropriate background. There could be several tiers based on the population of the planet. So a highly populated planet would have a slightly different art style than one of the same type that has less people on it.

This would take a lot of work and resources so I think it'd be fair to charge people for this cool extra 'feature'.
 
I hope Embargos and Trade Wars will be added to the game. I would love to fight wars like that over profit rather than conquest. EDIT: It would add a lot of flavor to wars without having to wipe out empires.
 
This trade mechanic looks nice! I would like to see in it a greater difference between liberal or socialist economy then we previously had on other versions. For example, non-optimized trade routes could pop-up spontaneously if you're in a liberal economy, while socialists could have to create their own, but it would cost them a fair amount of credits. Also, you could have pop lifestyle (I think it's how you call it in English, I'm playing in French) that costs you "trade ressource", and which could also be covered up just by exploiting trade in the system. It could make really interesting gameplay as an empire which as just lost a war could sign a free-trade treaty with others, in the hope that someone come to exploit its ressources, effectively allowing him to augment the lifestyle of his people from, like, poor, to decent. It could really give a player the feeling he is building an economic empire in all the galaxy, building a United-States like network of trade that is sucking all the "trade ressource" from the neighboring empire, with everybody getting dependent of the lifestyle he generate in their empire while his own pops lifestyle would be utopic.

P.S. Don't judge my English to severely, please... :)
 
I imagine isolationists will still be able to trade just fine with other empires, currently when I play or play with isolationists research and resource trading is common, they just don't want immigration or military involvement.

It's barbaric despoilers and fanatic purifiers that will probably have fewer options, and of course Gestalt doesn't use it at all (but gets other mechanics to balance it out).
the thing is i dont WANT to trade with other empires as an isolationist
 
So we can exchange trade value for energy credits, and maybe other ressources ? I am reassured, i was wondering where to make energy as a tall empire without habitat power plant. So energy habitat arn't dead, they just been changed to trade habitat. There could be ways to take advantage of this, as they made habitats habitat districts more productive than their planet counterpart, and it seems there will be an high ratio trade value-good