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Stellaris Dev Diary #127 - Trade Value and Trade Routes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Trade Value
Trade Value is a new value that's being added in the Le Guin update for non-Gestalt empires, representing the civilian and private-sector economies of these empires. All Pops generate a small amount of Trade Value based on their living standards, with higher living standard Pops generating more trade value, and is also produced by a number of different jobs such as Clerks and Merchants. Additionally, Trade Value can be found as deposits in space, representing various resources that don't have a direct industrial application but might still be desirable to your population (for a real-life example, think of things like as precious stones used in jewelry). Trade Value has no inherent purpose, but can be turned into other resources by being exploited, representing taxation and tariffs imposed on the civilian economy by an empire that has the necessary infrastructure in place to benefit from it.
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In order for Trade Value to count as exploited, it has to fulfill two conditions:

1) There must be an upgraded Starbase in range from the system to collect the Trade Value. By default, upgraded Starbases can only collect inside their own system, but their collection range can be extended by constructing additional Trade Hub modules, with each module extending the collection range by a single system up to a maximum of 6 hyperlane jumps away. You do not need to build an orbital station to collect trade value from planets - this is done automatically if it is in range of a collecting Starbase.

2) Once collected, Trade Value needs to be sent to your capital system. This will be done automatically if the Starbase collecting is located in said capital system, but otherwise the Starbase must be connected to the capital through a Trade Route (more on that below).

Trade Value that is successfully exploited will be converted into other resources (currently, trade value is turned into energy credits at a 1:1 conversion rate, but which exact resources it becomes is fully scriptable and may differ depending on your empire type) and added to your monthly income.
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Trade Routes
Trade Routes are paths are that used to connect remote Starbases to your capital in order to exploit the trade value collected there. Each upgraded Starbase can support a single Trade Route by connecting to another Starbase, which is where the first Starbase will send all of its collected trade value. For example, an empire might have a remote Starbase (we'll call it starbase A), which is sending trade value to another Starbase closer to the capital (starbase B), which in turn sends on both its collected trade and all trade sent to it by starbase A on to the capital. The player has full control over which Starbase sends its value where, and can redraw routes, though there may be an efficiency loss on a newly drawn route for a time.

This means that if starbase A collects a value of 10 from the systems around it, and starbase B collects 15, 10 value will be sent from A to B and all 25 combined value is then sent on to C (the capital) and is successfully exploited. Any trade value that fails to reach the capital, either because of lack of collection, lack of a route, or piracy (more on that below) is wasted - the empire gets no benefits from it - so it'll be especially important to ensure any populous colonies that are generating a lot of trade value are properly connected via trade routes to your capital.

Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
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(Ignore any weird visuals such as sector borders, it's just a bug)

Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
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Additionally, any military fleet can be given orders to patrol a route between two Starbases to actively eliminate pirates and reduce the amount of piracy in the systems. The old system of spawning pirate ships in empty systems adjacent to your empire will also change - instead, pirate fleets may spawn in systems where a large amount of trade value is being lost to pirates. Overall, pirate fleets is something you will experience less often and can actively work to prevent, but will be more of an actual threat when they do spawn. We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty. We may also have a system similar to the old pirates for Gestalts, since they do not have access to Trade Value or Trade Routes.
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(Yes, we know the grammar/spelling is wrong, no need to point it out - the icons are also placeholders)

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Decisions and Planetary Bombardment

EDIT: Since it keeps being asked, at this point we are not ready to talk about how trade trades/trade agreements with other empires will work, only that they will exist in some form.
 
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Question! Weren't pirates meant to dissuade player from claiming systems in a line as it would increase the amount of pirate spawn from the increased ownerless border systems?

That's already been addressed:

We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty.
 
  1. Can we have a trade mapmode where: a) systems are grouped by which starbase is collecting; b) each group is colored by how much of its outgoing trade reaches the capital
  2. Do trading hubs still give the same +n income as before, or are they completely different now?
  3. Is it possible to pay resources to increase piracy in another empire, like supporting rebels in EU4?
 
Okay, this is really super cool. One nagging thought it does provoke is that it makes the hyperlane system completely obsolete. You've now made natural and fluent system strategic based on the trade flowing through it and these should be your strong holds/high value targets.
 
i have to say, with trade routes being one of the features i was looking forward too most after the changes made to the game in 2.0, that this feels a bit bare bones and basic.

where are the starbase modules or planet buildings that do cool things to the trade routes? where is the influences of galactic terrain? where are the civics and government forms focusing on trade? why are the new rare luxury resources not involved? where are the merchant enclaves? where are trade route blockades and stuff like that?

oh and feature request: please copy paste the navy patrol system to allow us to set up naval patrols between any two points, not just along trade routes.
 
That's not a normal planet


Yes I am aware as it has 12 city district and 4 empty districts along with 1 farm and 1 mine. Also in all likely hood that it is an ecumenopolis just not 100% all the way.

The only thing I can see through the tool tip is that food upkeep is 325. You can fill the rest of your food need with 4 farm district or something and use that trade for more rarer stuff. The rest of the planet's upkeep/income are too blurry to make out more details. Also, you get mineral you need from space-based source and buy the rest.

Presumably trade hubs will no longer generate energy on their own. Energy districts will probably be enough to cover building maintenance, and trade is how you'll actually make a profit in order to buy resources, enclave services, etc.

I am telling you that I am hardly struggling with energy and can end up capped out as a non-gesltat empire. Heck I often find myself contacting the trade enclave to just put my energy into the negative so I don't waste it.

Since trade value is not a flat value anymore. It is safe to say that it can dynamically go higher than old energy starbase module which give you more energy to play with not the other way around.

Honestly the only time I think anyone would struggle with trade is wide empire since they will have to deal with bigger upkeep if they want more ecumenopolis planet/habitat/ringworld etc... While with tall empire you can stay small and more self-sufficient with space habitat for farm/energy etc... God knows, I will most certainly try.

wouldn't this mean depending in evrything on the market? ... pops need other resource to work, so you produce them yourself or use the market . in early and midgame i can't see you renuncing production district just to spam trade value that would become energy only if you can protect them .

if you are building tall, you may find yourself with the need of few resources , and you could possibiliy go full trade value . but wide empire will need to build stations, fleets to protect the long trade routes ( energy - alloys upkeep) over all other difficulties ...

and i think they wanted to add some energy credit to allow for an active use of the market , if you are actualy going for a full trade power empire, you will need to buy alot of resources . if there are not producer empire, the galatic market price will go up and up .

Not everything is brought but just enough to not need to go wide.

There is a reason to not go wide too. If you can fulfill your ecumenopolis' need by having fewer systems. Because each district and system over empire size 20 contribute to a bigger tech and tradition cost. Most system doesn't have research or unity sources and you will need more of those (they aren't cheap if teaser are anything to go by) across your normal wide empire to make up for that. At the same time those limited build slot also compete with alloy forges and other necessities.

The only real question is it worthwhile ditching a few system to min-max your unity and research yields?

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Okay, this is really super cool. One nagging thought it does provoke is that it makes the hyperlane system completely obsolete. You've now made natural and fluent system strategic based on the trade flowing through it and these should be your strong holds/high value targets.

emh... why ? ... hyperlane are the way to travel, securing choke point have a military value .
they just added a new "value " to the game with the trade route .

where are the starbase modules or planet buildings that do cool things to the trade routes? where is the influences of galactic terrain? where are the civics and government forms focusing on trade? why are the new rare luxury resources not involved? where are the merchant enclaves? where are trade route blockades and stuff like that?

EMH... they talked about Trade Value and Trade Routes , not evrything about them , they don't even have the game up and running and many meccanics are still in progress ... if you want all those details you should wait for the 2.2 to be live :D .

if you were intending to suggest them, i'm sorry, i didn't understand.

Not everything is brought but just enough to not need to go wide.

There is a reason to not go wide too. If you can fulfill your ecumenopolis' need by having fewer systems. Because each district and system over empire size 20 contribute to a bigger tech and tradition cost. Most system doesn't have research or unity sources and you will need more of those (they aren't cheap if teaser are anything to go by) across your normal wide empire to make up for that. At the same time those limited build slot also compete with alloy forges and other necessities.


you sayd it yourself, district will increase your empire size , you realy can't "spam" trade power if you have few district , and if you just build housing ( to increase trade power you need pops and clerk) you will end up with a empire that need to buy food, minerals and i'm not sure you can keep it up with just the 1:1 energy ( since district at basic lvl of tecnology give 2 energy for working pop).

but yea, you may find a good 20 size planet just beside your main trade route for the capital ( and maybe a friendly empire with commerce hoping it will be a thing ) and decide to just build pops there . but i think you will find yourself thinking about using the few starbases for something else the majority of the time if a planet is too far from the capital , ending up building district to produce more than thinking about a trade that would make you sacrifice too much to use.
 
So does this spell the end for the "Birth of Space Piracy" event?

The birth of the death of the Birth of Space Piracy.

@Wiz
Would I be safe in assuming that there will be a "Trade Route Mapmode" that lets us view all the galaxy's traderoutes with empires we know of?
Would be very useful for strategically targeting specific hostile starbases to inhibit their economy, or just getting a quick overview of our own and neighbor's routes if I'm understanding this trade system properly.

How would you know what another empire's trade routes are? Maybe that ties in with espionage ;)

I am telling you that I am hardly struggling with energy and can end up capped out as a non-gesltat empire. Heck I often find myself contacting the trade enclave to just put my energy into the negative so I don't waste it.

I wouldn't assume that the current economic balance in Stellaris will continue unchanged with all the changes coming in this update.
 
i have to say, with trade routes being one of the features i was looking forward too most after the changes made to the game in 2.0, that this feels a bit bare bones and basic.

where are the starbase modules or planet buildings that do cool things to the trade routes? where is the influences of galactic terrain? where are the civics and government forms focusing on trade? why are the new rare luxury resources not involved? where are the merchant enclaves? where are trade route blockades and stuff like that?

oh and feature request: please copy paste the navy patrol system to allow us to set up naval patrols between any two points, not just along trade routes.

Just because it wasn't in the DD, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
He mentioined adding additional collection points, but sector capitals would make the idea system to centralize around.

6 jumps means effective diameter of 13 hyperjumps for maximum starbase collection area, which seems likely larger than sector size. So, you won't get any actual trade routes in this scenario.

Maybe giving a sector the right to collect taxes gives it dreams of not having to pay any of it to you?
 
Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
I understand this to mean spaceships will finally get the "Patrol" command. I have long wondered why this command has never existed in Stellaris. It is particularly helpful for border security, knowing who is approaching far ahead of sensor range. A single ship can scout a broad swath of space by patrolling through it.

Please don't restrict this command to only being between Starbases, there is great potential to patrolling anywhere we need. Especially with 2.0 limiting fleet sizes and mobility, patrols make even more sense.
 
We're considering the ability to add additional collection points, but we don't want to make this easy as then there would be no need for long trade routes ever.

Any consideration for the idea of making a Trade Capital (á la EU4) separate from the normal capital planet?
 
To the guys asking why you need energy - quite obviously, energy credits are incredibely stronger right now, because you can buy rare resources for them - also those you dont have within your borders. EC has actual usage now, it is not just for maitnance.
To the guy asking for civics and buildings - I think that this is pretty obvious that trade buildings are already in place, and civic are incoming(propably in DLC). One was actually teased.
 
For example, add a specific expensive building which can only be built if infra > X and allows to utilize up to 30 trade value. As long as planet trade value + incoming routes from nearby system is at 30 or below you get it all exploited. If total trade value exceeds 30 your either have to send excess trade value further down the road of it will be wasted.

If you do this, can as well just add different buildings to extract different resources.

Also, crime should steal its percentage of the resources produced.
 
I wouldn't assume that the current economic balance in Stellaris will continue unchanged with all the changes coming in this update.

I never said that they would be the same. Having that said, there are certain gameplay that might actually benefit more by going tall than other. Like Inward Perfection which is ideally suitable to generate tons of unity and mineral in 2.1. I have no idea if they are still like that and very good chance are also prohibit from galaxy-wide trading (remember no diplomat relationship not even rival). Which means they might be immune to price fluctuation that can tank other empires balance sheet (think Russia/Brazil and Oil). So I think it is fair to ask even if the picture isn't complete.

Which goes back to my original question. Will there be expensive resource that you can't buy without going wide for 2.2?

Edit: woops forget we rolled over to 2.X already
 
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