Stellaris Dev Diary #185: Announcing Necroids

[Shrike]

Didn't you already get done for copying someones images for a mobile game?

Surely you can have a bit of imagination for your 9€ skin than just ripping off the necrons?

There is not a lot of love for this game anymore.

Fix it. If I sold you a Car then charged you more to make it run better but then broke the wheels you'd be angry too. 150€ more or less. Disgusting.

 

[Kyoumen]

I used to agree with this perspective.
Responses to every dev diary being "Yeah but have you considered my pet idiosynchracy, please give me feedback on these [three] [linked] [threads] where I ramble on about how Authoritarianism is a dumb name or how space unicorns are vital" was obnoxious.

I no longer agree with this perspective, because that's not what's happening.

It is exactly what is happening. What has changed is that you agree that the pet peeve is a Real Problem, not that people are spamming a dev diary thread with wholly unrelated complaints and being demanding and rude to Paradox employes who are neither responsible for nor able to fix the issues they have. That is exactly the same as it has always been.

The issue here is not whether or not Stellaris has a Real Problem. The issue is whether this is an appropriate thread to complain about this/these problem/s (it isn't), or whether it is helpful or acceptable to be demanding and aggressive towards random Paradox posters who likely have no ability or responsibility to deal with the Real Problems (it is not).

 

[Kyoumen]

"It's so irritating to see every dev diary swarmed with people bringing up their pet grievances which have nothing to do with the topic" thats not whats happening

I must've missed how this thread started with a dev diary about the game's AI issues, making all these pages of bitching about them on-topic.

"and (often rudely)" thats definetly not whats happening

"demanding employees work on issues that aren't in their area of jurisdiction." thats ABSOLUTELY not whats happening

There were three dev posts in this thread (I can't imagine why there weren't any more, this is such a reasonable and polite crowd that must be a joy to talk to!). Maybe you could try reading them all.

 

[Kyoumen]

Didn't you already get done for copying someones images for a mobile game?

Surely you can have a bit of imagination for your 9€ skin than just ripping off the necrons?

Boy, are you ever in for a shock when you find out that the Humanoids pack was not full of wholly original designs that were birthed from Johan's Id like Athena from the brow of Zeus.

And in for even more of one when you find out that 90% of everything in Stellaris from the day it came out is a homage or pastiche of popular/respected sci-fi properties.

 

[Rosthun]

It is exactly what is happening. What has changed is that you agree that the pet peeve is a Real Problem, not that people are spamming a dev diary thread with wholly unrelated complaints and being demanding and rude to Paradox employes who are neither responsible for nor able to fix the issues they have. That is exactly the same as it has always been.

The issue here is not whether or not Stellaris has a Real Problem. The issue is whether this is an appropriate thread to complain about this/these problem/s (it isn't), or whether it is helpful or acceptable to be demanding and aggressive towards random Paradox posters who likely have no ability or responsibility to deal with the Real Problems (it is not).

Muh guy, you're saying that the developers of the game are not able to fix and/or not responsible for what they release.
You're saying that a dev diary is not an appropriate place to complain while there isn't a dedicated thread for complaining. Even calling it "complaining" is a stretch since half the things discussed here have been going for years and then some.
You're calling a literal game director a "random Padadox poster".
And you've probably missed (why do I even expect apologizers to read) the reaction to the only Paradox employee, Eladrin, who posted here, which was overwhelmingly positive and supportive.

 

[-Marauder-]

Boy, are you ever in for a shock when you find out that the Humanoids pack was not full of wholly original designs that were birthed from Johan's Id like Athena from the brow of Zeus.

And in for even more of one when you find out that 90% of everything in Stellaris from the day it came out is a homage or pastiche of popular/respected sci-fi properties.

Let me get this right, you are genuinely defending blatant art theft? The rest of your defense is already wonky but this is on another level.

 

[Kyoumen]

People like this even turn up in the complaints threads to type "well I'm not experiencing this well documented and talked about problem"

Like what the actual flip? What does popping your head up to say "I'm doing fine" achieve. I'm honestly not sure what the mentality behind such a thing is.

What does popping up to say anything accomplish? It signals what your experience in the game is. If most people were doing fine, then the problem is not that big. People (on the internet especially) have a big problem with just accepting that others do not necessarily have the same experiences or views on it that they do.

 

[Kyoumen]

literally no one in this 21 page thread said ANYTHING about the content itself being bad

the most youd get is people saying "they didnt go far enough with the content", aside from that, NO ONE has a problem with necroids itself

Aside from the fact that actually isn't true...

So if their feedback has nothing to do with the Necroids pack, why precisely are they posting it in the thread about the Necroids pack? Why not start a thread like "AI problems have made Stellaris unfun for me for 2 years running" and post it there?

The answer, of course, is that many people think the devs will pay more attention if they run around ruining a dev diary thread rather than posting their grievances in a thread where it is actually appropriate to do so.

 

[Kyoumen]

Muh guy, you're saying that the developers of the game are not able to fix and/or not responsible for what they release.
You're saying that a dev diary is not an appropriate place to complain while there isn't a dedicated thread for complaining. Even calling it "complaining" is a stretch since half the things discussed here have been going for years and then some.
You're calling a literal game director a "random Padadox poster".
And you've probably missed (why do I even expect apologizers to read) the reaction to the only Paradox employee, Eladrin, who posted here, which was overwhelmingly positive and supportive.

1) I said nothing of the sort, I said that people demand Paradox devs fix things which aren't in their jurisdiction. Which has happened many, many times and happened to Eladrin in this very thread.

2) There does not need to be a dedicated thread to complaining about Stellaris, and it would instantly turn into a festering pustule if there was one.

3) I did not call a Paradox game director anything. I talked, in general, about how Paradox employees are treated, which is more or less the same regardless of what position they hold.

4) Some people stuck up for Eladrin and some did not. Do not pretend the latter don't exist because it is convenient for your point to do so.

5) Stop breaking up people into imaginary boxes so you can decide where they stand. Calling me an "apologiser" is turning your reason off. You literally have no idea what I think about the state of Stellaris since I have not mentioned it. I have certainly criticised Paradox outside of this thread. I actually agree with some of the complaints in this thread - but not that they should have been aired ad infinitum in a dev diary thread to begin with.

 

[Kyoumen]

Let me get this right, you are genuinely defending blatant art theft? The rest of your defense is already wonky but this is on another level.

I neither know about nor was commenting on the accusations of theft for a mobile game. If you read my post again, you would likely realise I was commenting on the complaint that the new pack is a rip-off of a preexisting property (like 90% of Stellaris is).

 

[Kyoumen]

dev diaries are the only places left in this forum that ACTUALLY make developers look at the comments tho
like, quarantine threads literally are there to just dumb complaints so the devs dont have to look at them.

And see where that has gotten us to

So, I've seen devs read and comment in threads regular posters have started, and many devs have also said they read many threads in the forums that they do not comment on. So your theory both flies in the face of objective data and calls the devs liars. I would also suggest that it is absurd to think no dev would at least look at a twenty-page thread about problems with the AI (for example).

Do you have literally anything that supports your viewpoint?

 

[Hansatron]

So, I've seen devs read and comment in threads regular posters have started, and many devs have also said they read many threads in the forums that they do not comment on. So your theory both flies in the face of objective data and calls the devs liars. I would also suggest that it is absurd to think no dev would at least look at a twenty-page thread about problems with the AI (for example).

Imagine the screeching if they didn't even do dev diaries.
Obviously the devs are just people who work for paradox and they can't go around commenting on random threads wantonly. Hard to control the company image, if a dev says something is a great idea and they end up implementing it, is there an IP claim? Etc. Better to just lurk. Plus when they do post they might derail discussion by getting spammed with 50 comments about how the AI or some such.

 

[Kyoumen]

Sadly, I think the average person really just doesn't care about all these complaints, and Paradox knows it. The amount of people that will not buy DLC because they're upset about the state of the game probably isn't enough to matter. Even here, probably the most critical place about the game, this DLC diary still has more than half likes. Many will see a new DLC, buy it, play a couple games to 2300 and put the game back down again.

If what you say is true - and I have no data to have an opinion one way or the other - then the actual situation would be "Most people are enjoying the game as it is and like it enough to buy new content for it". Which is not a situation that actually demands anything fundamental to be "fixed".

I don't have any issue with your post, but it struck me as interesting that you essentially argued why Paradox should dismiss your own criticism. But of course, in reality you don't know what the "average person" thinks any more than I do. Maybe Paradox's metrics are worrying to them, maybe they aren't. Why not just focus on what you want from the game and your own experience playing it?

 

[Kyoumen]

The name of the species and the green glow is really not helping....

TLDR : While I gave up on STELLARIS till I get a better computer (six months or so) this is a neat concept. The name of the species and the green glow is, however. not helping with the problems of originality that, shall we say, pops up in Stellaris.

But Stellaris has always been like that. I mean, you can not like it and that's perfectly fine, but what's the difference between this and the fact they flagrantly put in Vulcans/Romulans, that Fallen Empires and the War in Heaven are from Babylon 5, that Citizen Service is to let you play Starship Troopers, there's Warhammer 40K stuff all over the place, etc etc etc?

 

[Rosthun]

I'm honestly sick and tired of this degeneracy, there has to be some pushback to it at some point.

What does popping up to say anything accomplish? It signals what your experience in the game is. If most people were doing fine, then the problem is not that big. People (on the internet especially) have a big problem with just accepting that others do not necessarily have the same experiences or views on it that they do.

As opposed to what, a huge accomplishment of popping here and saying that everything is fine? Look at the like/dislike ratio for this DD, it's 50/50, I would not describe this as "most people are fine". And the sweet irony of not accepting what others' experiences and views are, its too good. It's almost like the whole conversation started with most of the people talking about the same problems all of them experience on a regular basis just to have their opinions dismissed in a sweeping fashion by a couple of clowns that instantly called them whiners and man-children.

Aside from the fact that actually isn't true...
So if their feedback has nothing to do with the Necroids pack, why precisely are they posting it in the thread about the Necroids pack? Why not start a thread like "AI problems have made Stellaris unfun for me for 2 years running" and post it there?
The answer, of course, is that many people think the devs will pay more attention if they run around ruining a dev diary thread rather than posting their grievances in a thread where it is actually appropriate to do so.

Aside from the fact that it is true and pretty much no one (if anyone) said that content was bad, just the fact that there were dissappointed that this is what PDX decides to spend their time on. And let me just go to a DD thread dedicated to a discussion about fixing things that are broken...oh wait, there isn't one. 90% of the entire forum is threads pointing out various problems, none of which have been fixed or even addressed by the devs. As far as shitstorms go, this was a very civil one as well.

1) I said nothing of the sort, I said that people demand Paradox devs fix things which aren't in their jurisdiction. Which has happened many, many times and happened to Eladrin in this very thread.

"being demanding and rude to Paradox employes who are neither responsible for nor able to fix the issues they have".
Yes you have. Dev Diary was posted by the Game Director. It is in the jurisdiction of the Game Director to fix their project. Complaints were addressed to programmers. It is their responsibility to be able to fix things that are broken. No one told artists to fix the AI. No one demanded anything from Eladrin directly, in fact there was literally a single person saying that he isn't satisfied with his answer and being told off by community for being overly harsh on him 2 posts below.

There does not need to be a dedicated thread to complaining about Stellaris, and it would instantly turn into a festering pustule if there was one.

You tell people to go to a separate thread to complain yet you say there is no need for one, nice. Try browsing the forum and tell me that people came here out of the blue to shit on the Dev Diary. Complaints were posted dozens of times before that without anyone ever addressing them in years, so people came here.

I did not call a Paradox game director anything. I talked, in general, about how Paradox employees are treated, which is more or less the same regardless of what position they hold.

"The issue is whether this is an appropriate thread to complain about this/these problem/s (it isn't), or whether it is helpful or acceptable to be demanding and aggressive towards random Paradox posters who likely have no ability or responsibility to deal with the Real Problems (it is not)".
This is the single, the most right thread to complain in, and you are definitely talking about this thread, which was posted by the Game Director, and since there aren't any posters except him and Eladrin you did in fact call him a random Paradox poster. Good thing you said one thing but actually meant something completely different, very convenient.

Some people stuck up for Eladrin and some did not. Do not pretend the latter don't exist because it is convenient for your point to do so.

There was an overwhelming majority of those who stuck up to him to those who did not. It is in fact you who is trying to manipulate the fact to prove your point. Literal fact check.

Stop breaking up people into imaginary boxes so you can decide where they stand. Calling me an "apologiser" is turning your reason off. You literally have no idea what I think about the state of Stellaris since I have not mentioned it.

Except no one is required to be a telepath to know what you think. Here you are trying to argue that everything is fine, here you are trying to spin that everyone else is wrong, lying or simply whining for the sake of it. Doing so without presenting any arguments is being an "apologiser". There are 25 pages of posts where people gave plenty of reasons as to why exactly they complained here, I'm not going to waste my breath reciting them all.


No one bashed the artists, there were no personal attacks, the response to the only dev here was overwhelmingly positive, the issues were addressed to appropriate people, all of the complaints discussed here are real issues with the game that can be quite easily reproduced to the point you either can't even miss them or you are much more likely to notice them thatn not and finally this thread is where developers post information about what they are working on, it is as appropriate as it gets to have a discussion like this here.

I am so done with people just putting words in the mouths of "whiners", twisting the facts or just outright lying to discredit everything that is being said in this thread, enough is enough.

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

I'm honestly sick and tired of this degeneracy, there has to be some pushback to it at some point.


As opposed to what, a huge accomplishment of popping here and saying that everything is fine? Look at the like/dislike ratio for this DD, it's 50/50, I would not describe this as "most people are fine". And the sweet irony of not accepting what others' experiences and views are, its too good. It's almost like the whole conversation started with most of the people talking about the same problems all of them experience on a regular basis just to have their opinions dismissed in a sweeping fashion by a couple of clowns that instantly called them whiners and man-children.


Aside from the fact that it is true and pretty much no one (if anyone) said that content was bad, just the fact that there were dissappointed that this is what PDX decides to spend their time on. And let me just go to a DD thread dedicated to a discussion about fixing things that are broken...oh wait, there isn't one. 90% of the entire forum is threads pointing out various problems, none of which have been fixed or even addressed by the devs. As far as shitstorms go, this was a very civil one as well.


"being demanding and rude to Paradox employes who are neither responsible for nor able to fix the issues they have".
Yes you have. Dev Diary was posted by the Game Director. It is in the jurisdiction of the Game Director to fix their project. Complaints were addressed to programmers. It is their responsibility to be able to fix things that are broken. No one told artists to fix the AI. No one demanded anything from Eladrin directly, in fact there was literally a single person saying that he isn't satisfied with his answer and being told off by community for being overly harsh on him 2 posts below.


You tell people to go to a separate thread to complain yet you say there is no need for one, nice. Try browsing the forum and tell me that people came here out of the blue to shit on the Dev Diary. Complaints were posted dozens of times before that without anyone ever addressing them in years, so people came here.


"The issue is whether this is an appropriate thread to complain about this/these problem/s (it isn't), or whether it is helpful or acceptable to be demanding and aggressive towards random Paradox posters who likely have no ability or responsibility to deal with the Real Problems (it is not)".
This is the single, the most right thread to complain in, and you are definitely talking about this thread, which was posted by the Game Director, and since there aren't any posters except him and Eladrin you did in fact call him a random Paradox poster. Good thing you said one thing but actually meant something completely different, very convenient.


There was an overwhelming majority of those who stuck up to him to those who did not. It is in fact you who is trying to manipulate the fact to prove your point. Literal fact check.


Except no one is required to be a telepath to know what you think. Here you are trying to argue that everything is fine, here you are trying to spin that everyone else is wrong, lying or simply whining for the sake of it. Doing so without presenting any arguments is being an "apologiser". There are 25 pages of posts where people gave plenty of reasons as to why exactly they complained here, I'm not going to waste my breath reciting them all.


No one bashed the artists, there were no personal attacks, the response to the only dev here was overwhelmingly positive, the issues were addressed to appropriate people, all of the complaints discussed here are real issues with the game that can be quite easily reproduced to the point you either can't even miss them or you are much more likely to notice them thatn not and finally this thread is where developers post information about what they are working on, it is as appropriate as it gets to have a discussion like this here.

I am so done with people just putting words in the mouths of "whiners", twisting the facts or just outright lying to discredit everything that is being said in this thread, enough is enough.

Perfection

 

[J.J. Jahosephat]

You guys should Input a CK style fief distribution and levy system as a certain form of imperial government. Maybe add a backstory of ancient colony ships forming feudal kingdoms and them all being subjugated by the king/queen/dukes dynasty.

 

[J.J. Jahosephat]

You guys should Input a CK style fief distribution and levy system as a certain form of imperial government. Maybe add a backstory of ancient colony ships forming feudal kingdoms and them all being subjugated by the king/queen/dukes dynasty.

Levies are a set number of military ships that obey their semi independent lord to defend their own fiefdom til they're called up by the players monarch, which needs only a slightly improved EUIV dynasty system, maybe adapt a few ckII or III mechanics to make a rudimentary feudal political system.

 

[grandad1982]

it has been broken since launch, the "revamp" of planets just kneecaped the ai completly

1.9 was the high point of the ai as I recall. There were even threads of people complaining that it had been made to hard to casual players....

 

[Alkaid98]

If what you say is true - and I have no data to have an opinion one way or the other - then the actual situation would be "Most people are enjoying the game as it is and like it enough to buy new content for it". Which is not a situation that actually demands anything fundamental to be "fixed".

I don't have any issue with your post, but it struck me as interesting that you essentially argued why Paradox should dismiss your own criticism. But of course, in reality you don't know what the "average person" thinks any more than I do. Maybe Paradox's metrics are worrying to them, maybe they aren't. Why not just focus on what you want from the game and your own experience playing it?

That's exactly why I said it. Our criticism doesn't seem to matter much overall, and likely isn't impacting their sales figures enough to create a priorty to fix things. People having higher standards for their product and caring about fixing its flaws appear to be a minority these days. However, there's still valid complaints to be made about the state of the game. I'm sure there's people who have no issue with the Crisis sitting around doing nothing, or they don't mind the game being at a crawl in the 2400's. Other people enjoying a game regardless of its flaws don't mean the flaws don't exist or deserve being criticized. The AI is still objectively bad, the micromanagement is objectively excessive and the late game lag is still objectively slow(even with some higher end PCs). Whether that bothers every average Joe or not is something else, but it sure bothers me and thankfully I'm not alone. What I want from the game is a product with all its pieces functioning as they should and reasonably good performance, and I hardly think that's a personal experience type of problem or unreasonable request.