Stellaris Dev Diary #218 - Plantoids Gameplay

[Mímisbrunnr]

We've made some slight tweaks to the Radiotrophic trait since the dev diary was posted, since the 100% habitability when combined with the post-apocalyptic origin was a bit much in testing.

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That's fair, but I'd respectfully argue that its Phototrophic that REALLY is in greater need of tweaking. 1 trait slot and 1 trait point to just merely shift around upkeeps is not worth it it in most cases - as you tend to basically be just paying the same amount, distributed differently. In fact, because of this, its actually actively detrimental to take Phototrophic in most cases as it currently stands, because in most cases it "does nothing" or "next to nothing" with just redistributing costs which is a net wash, but simultaneously it deprives you of a trait point which could have been used to give a meaningful bonus instead, like Natural Engineers.

As such, phototrophic REALLY needs to either be buffed by increasing its effect OR by making it cheaper (such as free).

Granted, there are a few niche empires, like Void Dwellers, who will actually substantially benefit from phototrophic due to quirks of their economy (Void Dwellers will need to waste less valuable building slots on hydroponics and can draw upon their special habitat energy districts), but again, for most empires taking the Photorophic trait is actively harmful by losing out on more beneficial potential.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

We've made some slight tweaks to the Radiotrophic trait since the dev diary was posted, since the 100% habitability when combined with the post-apocalyptic origin was a bit much in testing.

How does it test for empires that aren't post-apocalyptic?

 

[Primarch Victus]

Phototrophic is fine the way it is -- we don't need of it being an Origin or costing 0 points.

 

[Objulen]

Ok, I was wrong -- there is no way of using both Life Seeded and Idyllic Bloom. But who cares? Life Seeded exists to make more challenging to conquer the galaxy to those empires that choose it. And Idyllic Bloom lets you roleplay the Baol Organism or any other similar empire you want. There is no need to match them or of turning Idyllic Bloom into a Origin, once they both exist only to give to your empire a different flavor. Personally, I won't die or lose my sleep if Idyllic Bloom continue to be like it was presented here in the forum -- and I never choose Life Seeded (it's too boring for my taste).

Generally, you want content to be roughly competitive. Challenge modes can be good too, but Life Seeded isn't labelled as one.

Personally, I think that Life Seeded would be better if it got something like Idyllic Bloom baked into it, where you could turn other worlds in Gaia Worlds over time.

 

[TrotBot]

what is the reason rogue servitors cannot have plant based alloys, but driven exterminators can? seems like a weird restriction on servitors, i would love to build lots of green space on my rings for my biotrophies, for roleplay reasons, and was always hoping there could be an in-game reason to justify it.

 

[HFY]

Generally, you want content to be roughly competitive. Challenge modes can be good too, but Life Seeded isn't labelled as one.

IIRC back when tiles ruled the earth there were valid reasons to start with Life-Seeded, and one-system challenge was one of those reasons.

But those reasons generally died when jobs took our tiles.

Personally, I think that Life Seeded would be better if it got something like Idyllic Bloom baked into it, where you could turn other worlds in Gaia Worlds over time.

Honestly it might just be better to replace Life Seeded with Idyllic Bloom.

But if both are kept, they should either compete directly (both are Origins) or Life Seeded should be changed to be compatible and competitive.

 

[Primarch Victus]

Except that the old tile system was pretty boring -- so good riddance to it.

 

[Primarch Victus]

Generally, you want content to be roughly competitive. Challenge modes can be good too, but Life Seeded isn't labelled as one.

Personally, I think that Life Seeded would be better if it got something like Idyllic Bloom baked into it, where you could turn other worlds in Gaia Worlds over time.

So, just because Life Seeded isn't labelled as challenging, it should not be challenging? Your way to think did not make any sense to me. Did you ever stopped to think that to an Origin to be labelled as "Challenging" like happens with some of them, that means they are far, far more difficult than normal even in the more easy difficult settings?

 

[Objulen]

So, just because Life Seeded isn't labelled as challenging, it should not be challenging? Your way to think did not make any sense to me. Did you ever stopped to think that to an Origin to be labelled as "Challenging" like happens with some of them, that means they are far, far more difficult than normal even in the more easy difficult settings?

Yes, an origin that isn't labelled as challenging should not be significantly or notably more challenging than the default play mode, just different. Otherwise, it should be listed as a challenging origin, like Doomsday.

Life Seeded is notably more difficult than other starts unless you are able to get aliens in your empire to populate other worlds, which tends to limit your early game expansion unless you're very lucky - your only options are to find a friendly alien species you can establish a migration treaty with or conquer some primitives and use them to colonize other worlds. That'll put you behind other empires in a notable way, since your base species can't reliably expand to anything except Orbital Habitats and maybe a Relic World until you get Word Shaper, which won't be until the mid game at the earliest with a properly expanding empire.

Now, that may not be as challenging as Doomsday, but it's enough of a hurdle that it should be listed as a harder origin than most, and it wouldn't hurt to label it as such so the player knows what they're getting into. Maybe call it an Advanced origin.

 

[TrotBot]

Yes, an origin that isn't labelled as challenging should not be significantly or notably more challenging than the default play mode, just different. Otherwise, it should be listed as a challenging origin, like Doomsday.

Life Seeded is notably more difficult than other starts unless you are able to get aliens in your empire to populate other worlds, which tends to limit your early game expansion unless you're very lucky - your only options are to find a friendly alien species you can establish a migration treaty with or conquer some primitives and use them to colonize other worlds. That'll put you behind other empires in a notable way, since your base species can't reliably expand to anything except Orbital Habitats and maybe a Relic World until you get Word Shaper, which won't be until the mid game at the earliest with a properly expanding empire.

Now, that may not be as challenging as Doomsday, but it's enough of a hurdle that it should be listed as a harder origin than most, and it wouldn't hurt to label it as such so the player knows what they're getting into. Maybe call it an Advanced origin.

But the new gaia civic combined with it will help

 

[Objulen]

But the new gaia civic combined with it will help

Regrettably, no. They can only turn Gaia worlds into Gaia worlds with Idyllic Bloom.

 

[HFY]

Except that the old tile system was pretty boring -- so good riddance to it.

Did you think someone was arguing in favor of tiles?

I was explaining the history of Life-Seeded, which was once a valid choice for some concepts, and now is trash.

 

[TrotBot]

Regrettably, no. They can only turn Gaia worlds into Gaia worlds with Idyllic Bloom.

you can use idyllic bloom to colonize less habitable worlds and turn them. yes it will hurt your pop growth at first, but it'll work out. or you use migration treaties to colonize, then turn them into gaia worlds so your main species can live there too.

edit: this is incorrect, you can only do it on ideal planets

 

[Ferrus Animus]

you can use idyllic bloom to colonize less habitable worlds and turn them. yes it will hurt your pop growth at first, but it'll work out. or you use migration treaties to colonize, then turn them into gaia worlds so your main species can live there too.

As repeated a couple times already, no you can't. As far as we know you need the best habitability of your main race. We don't know how it interacts with habitability modding and other species, but given the lack of clarification it probably doesn't interact them all.

You can not turn less habitable worlds into gaia worlds, because Idyllic Bloom is limited that way. Read the tooltip and description in the dev diary.

 

[Strangedane]

you can use idyllic bloom to colonize less habitable worlds and turn them. yes it will hurt your pop growth at first, but it'll work out. or you use migration treaties to colonize, then turn them into gaia worlds so your main species can live there too.

You don't get it.

You can probably only turn the exact biome you started on into gaia. "On worlds ideal to your starting race"

Turning gaia worlds into gaia worlds doesn't seem all that powerful.

 

[TrotBot]

well that sucks.

 

[HFY]

Turning gaia worlds into gaia worlds doesn't seem all that powerful.

Maybe they should add some kind of double-gaia world for this situation.


I do wonder how Idyllic Bloom interacts with the Worm -- does your "ideal" type change when you embrace the Worm's gift, and do you get to Bloom all the Tomb Worlds created by your decision?

 

[Strangedane]

I do wonder how Idyllic Bloom interacts with the Worm -- does your "ideal" type change when you embrace the Worm's gift, and do you get to Bloom all the Tomb Worlds created by your decision?

It won't work I bet.
It probably won't even work with genemodded habitability.

I'm hoping i'll be surprised.

 

[HFY]

It won't work I bet.
It probably won't even work with genemodded habitability.

I'm hoping i'll be surprised.

I need a "fingers crossed" reaction.

Have a Like in the mean time.

 

[Objulen]

you can use idyllic bloom to colonize less habitable worlds and turn them. yes it will hurt your pop growth at first, but it'll work out. or you use migration treaties to colonize, then turn them into gaia worlds so your main species can live there too.

Not according to the tool tip for the first stage in the dev post.