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Stellaris Dev Diary #237 - Reworking Unity, Part One

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Welcome back! We hope you’ve all had a wonderful few weeks.

Today we’ll start with some more information about the goals of the Unity Rework mentioned in Dev Diary 215 (and briefly in 234), some updates on how things have been going so far, and our plans going forward.

Please note: All values and screen captures shown here are still very much in development and subject to change.

Identified Problems and Design Goals

Currently in Stellaris, Unity is an extremely weak resource that can generally be ignored, and due to the current implementation of Admin Capacity, the Empire Sprawl mechanic is largely toothless - leading to wide tech rushing being an oppressively powerful strategy. Since Unity is currently very easily generated through incidental means and provides minimal benefits, Empires have little need to develop a Unity generation base, and Spiritualist ethics are unattractive.

Influence is currently used for many internal and external interactions, making it a valuable resource, but it sometimes feels too limiting.

Our basic design goals for the Unity Rework can be summarized as:
  • Unity should be a meaningful resource that represents the willingness of your empire to band together for the betterment of society and their resilience towards negative change.
    • Unity should be more valuable than it is now, and empires focused on Unity generation should be interesting to play.
      • Spiritualist empires should have a satisfying niche to exploit and be able to feel that they are good at something.
      • The number of sources of incidental Unity from non-dedicated jobs should be reduced.
      • Empires that do not focus on Unity (but do not completely ignore it) should still be able to acquire their Ascension Perks by the late game.
    • Reward immersive decisions with Unity grants whenever possible.
    • Internal empire matters should generally utilize Unity.
      • Provide more ways to spend Unity.
      • Rebalance the way edicts work (again).
  • Reduce the oppressive impact of tech rushing by reintroducing some rubber-banding mechanics.
  • Make tall play more viable, preferring to balance tall vs. wide play in favor of distinctiveness, and emphasizing differences between hives, machines, megacorps, and normal empires. (This does not necessarily mean that tall Unity focused empires will be the equal of wide Research focused ones, but they should have some things that they are good at and be more competitive in general than they are now.)
  • In the late game, Unity focused empires should have a benefit to look forward to similar to the repeatable technologies a Research focused empire would have.
In this iteration we have focused on some of these bullets more than others, but will continue to refine the systems over future Custodian releases.

So What Are We Doing?

All means of increasing Administrative Capacity have been removed. While there are ways to reduce the Empire Sprawl generated by various sources, and this will be used to help differentiate gameplay between different empire types, empires will no longer be able to completely mitigate sprawl penalties. Penalties and sprawl generation values have been significantly modified.
  • The Capital designation, for instance, now also reduces Empire Sprawl generated by Pops on the planet.
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Bureaucrats, Priests, Managers, Synapse Drones, and Coordinators will be the primary sources of Unity for various empire types. Culture Workers have been removed.

Autochthon Memorials (and similar buildings) now increase planetary Unity production and themselves produce Unity based on the number of Ascension Perks the Empire has taken. Being monuments, they no longer require workers.

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These monuments are now planet-unique, and can be built by Spiritualist empires.

The Edicts Cap system has been removed. Toggled Edicts will have monthly Unity Upkeep which is modified by Empire Sprawl. Each empire has an Edicts Fund which subsidizes Edict Upkeep, reducing the amount you have to pay each month to maintain them. Things that previously increased Edict Capacity now generally increase the Edicts Fund, but some civics, techs, and ascension perks have received other thematic modifications.

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As an example, some Bureaucratic technologies now modify the Edicts Fund.

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The Imperial Cult will squander any excess Edicts Fund on icons of the God Emperor at the end of the month. No refunds!

Several systems that used to cost Influence are now paid in Unity.
  • Planetary Decisions that were formerly paid in Influence. Prices have been adjusted.
  • Resettlement of pops. Abandoning colonies still costs Influence.
  • Manipulation of internal Factions. Factions themselves will now produce Unity instead of Influence.
Since Factions are no longer producing Influence, a small amount of Influence is now generated by your fleet, based on Power Projection - a comparison of your fleet size and Empire Sprawl.

Leaders now cost Unity to hire rather than Energy. They also have a small amount of Unity Upkeep. We understand that this increases the relative costs of choosing to hire several scientists at the start of the game for exploration purposes, or when “cycling” leader traits, as you are now choosing between Traditions and Leaders..

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And then some empires go and break all the rules.

Most Megastructures now cost Unity rather than Influence, with the exception of any related to travel (such as Gateways) or that provide living space (such as Habitats and Ring Worlds).

Authority bonuses have (unsurprisingly) undergone some changes again, as several of them related to systems that no longer exist or operate differently now.

When Will This Happen?

Since these are pretty big changes that touch many game systems in so many ways, we’ve decided to put these changes up in a limited duration Open Beta on Steam for playtest and feedback. This will give us a chance to adjust values and modify some game interactions before the changes get pushed to live later on in the 3.3.x patch cycle, and we will continue improving on them in future Custodian releases.

We’ll provide more details on the specifics of how the Open Beta will be run in next week's dev diary.

What Else is Planned?

As noted earlier, we’d like Unity to also reflect the resilience of your empire to negative effects. A high Unity empire may be more resistant to negative effects deficits or possibly even have their pops rise up to help repel invaders, but these ideas are still in early development and will not be part of this Open Beta or release. They’ll likely be tied to the evolving Situations that we mentioned in Dev Diary 234 - we’ll talk about those more in the future once their designs are finalized.

Next week I’ll go into details regarding the Open Beta, go over a new system that is meant to provide “tall” and Unity focused empires some significant mid to late game benefits called Planetary Ascension Tiers, and share details on another little something from one of our Content Designers.
 
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I have to add my voice here to this point. Yes it is a common sci-fi trope but it's also a trope that chimes with the nature of the society that has them. Nobody is surprised that the Vogons dedicate so much time to the depressing drudgery of bureaucracy, but that trope does not easily overlay onto other kinds of civilizations.

Can you imagine the spiritual Minbari from Babylon 5 having whole worlds dedicated to such pursuits? And I doubt the warlike Klingons have another planet filled to the brim with Klingon bureaucrats toiling away at filling in the correct form in triplicate whilst everyone else goes off to die in glorious combat.

It strikes me as a one size fits all approach that just rubs against the multiplicity of empires we can create and seems to go against the stated design goal of creating more diverse government types that feel different. Whereas some empires would definitely have entire worlds filled to the brim with bureaucrats, having the same in a spiritualist empire as an example would just feel wrong. Rather than a world of bureaucrats, such an empire would surely have a world of quiet contemplation filled with temples where Priests would preach to the populace of the sanctity of their nation and their gods.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love where you are going with these changes and I am eagerly anticipating them, but citing the planet filled with bureaucrats trope rubs me the wrong way because, well, not everyone wants to be the Vogons.
To add to this, I can't think of a non-satirical bureaucracy planet that's actually a bureaucracy planet rather than the galactic capital which also features bureaucracy. The ur-example is Trantor from the Foundation series, but again that's the galactic capital, and it exists entirely as a demonstration in hubris.

The next example I'm aware of is Bill the Galactic Hero, a satire which spends a good few pages directly ripping on Trantor by leaning into the bureaucracy as a vessel to make fun of paper pushers and jobsworths.

Then we have the Vogon homeworld and if I recall correctly at least one planet from invader zim, both of which don't need elaboration.

Obscure Paradox game Stellaris has the galactic federation homeworld. That also did not go well.

So yes, bureaucrat planets are arguably A Thing but the Thing is usually "they're terrible." Having turning your empire into a nightmare of bureaucracy and red tape as an option for how you generate your unity is one thing, but making it the only and objectively correct option for all empires is something else.
 
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After a few days of browsing through few communities, I notice one of the common issue that people were worried was that the upkeep of the leaders. If there was no more upkeep, what would happen to them?

the big overhaul to this system might also raise a lot of unforeseen consequence to AI/system and a lot of other complex system. I hope it's completely ready before it was released on public.
 
All this is looking much better and more interesting them what we currently have in game for sure.
However I don't like heritage sites magically making more unity as you progress along the unity tree and get ascension perks. I feel it is more satisfying to have to do something to get that increase.
 
All this is looking much better and more interesting them what we currently have in game for sure.
However I don't like heritage sites magically making more unity as you progress along the unity tree and get ascension perks. I feel it is more satisfying to have to do something to get that increase.

I mean I guess it's something like.. as your culture develops you have .. more heritage? If that makes sense?
 
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any idea why there's are a lot of disagrees compare to previous DD? I thought this was a really good initiative?
maybe because players are fed up with paradox just randomly deciding to completly rework established mechanics
because (aside from obvious annoyances for modders) unlike what one might htink, reworking a problem doesnt acutally fix it... it just shifts it to something else

the same happend with tileset 2.0, the fleet manager, anomaly rework, strategic ressources, and the same is going to happen to the problem of 1. certain ressources not having any value at a certain point, and 2, certain ethics being "unappealing" and "unbalanced" (in this "4x" sandbox game about roleplaying an empire btw)
 
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I have to add my voice here to this point. Yes it is a common sci-fi trope but it's also a trope that chimes with the nature of the society that has them. Nobody is surprised that the Vogons dedicate so much time to the depressing drudgery of bureaucracy, but that trope does not easily overlay onto other kinds of civilizations.

Can you imagine the spiritual Minbari from Babylon 5 having whole worlds dedicated to such pursuits? And I doubt the warlike Klingons have another planet filled to the brim with Klingon bureaucrats toiling away at filling in the correct form in triplicate whilst everyone else goes off to die in glorious combat.

It strikes me as a one size fits all approach that just rubs against the multiplicity of empires we can create and seems to go against the stated design goal of creating more diverse government types that feel different. Whereas some empires would definitely have entire worlds filled to the brim with bureaucrats, having the same in a spiritualist empire as an example would just feel wrong. Rather than a world of bureaucrats, such an empire would surely have a world of quiet contemplation filled with temples where Priests would preach to the populace of the sanctity of their nation and their gods.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love where you are going with these changes and I am eagerly anticipating them, but citing the planet filled with bureaucrats trope rubs me the wrong way because, well, not everyone wants to be the Vogons.

Pretty much my point. Culture is an extremely complex and diverse thing, and while i understand why, from a game resource economy standpoint, it makes sense to unify all unity production into a single work type, this is precisely the last thing Stellaris needs.

What this game desperately needs is more variety in the play-stiles it offers. Developing deeper game mechanics related to internal politics and culture would go a long way in accomplishing that.
 
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I really hate constantly breaking saves, which make this game almost unplayable
We’ve had the entire summer (Southern hemisphere) or winter (Northern hemisphere) to play with our existing saves. I don’t mind if the next update breaks my old, abandoned ones, so long as the changes improve my next matches. You can also roll back to a previous version, usually, if you need to finish a save.
 
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Yeah, wth happened there with the logic :/ are scientists some sort of noble titles and every researcher will have an heir or something? Clunky
In a Feudal but spacefairing civilization? Yeah, I can easily see those who advance or keep technology being afforded noble titles. Could basically be seen as each researcher's "House" being the custodians of that particular field. A noble house dedicated to engineering, for example. We don't have any real life examples, but I see no reason why a still-feudal but technologically advanced society wouldn't be set up that way.
 
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Here's the thing sir, truth hurts. So if feelings ARE indeed being hurt, there is probably a reason for that. (not that I would know, since people would rather cower in the corner clicking dislike rather than tackle what their issue is). I'm under no obligation to sugar coat expressing how illogical something is. I've not even used profanity except for maybe 1 or 2 sentences, in this entire thread. There is no way to gauge things, when people don't engage, period. What, do you expect me to read people's minds and know what triggers them? to avoid whatever dumb micro-aggression they want to interpret from my posts?

Problems don't get solved by running and hiding from them. They never have, across all of human history. People's unwillingness to engage with complete honesty is a personal choice they make. If someone's mental health is truly so bad, that seeing someone complain about illogical game mechanics triggers them, then honestly, they have much more serious problems to worry about, and I hope they get the help they need. But someone being (possibly) mentally or emotionally fragile at this moment in their life, is quite literally, not my responsibility or problem.
I feel like you're missing the point. The issue is not that they can't handle criticism, or even that they can't handle harsh words. The issue is that harsh words can make people feel bad and people don't like feeling bad. And when that criticism can be expressed without harsh words, otherwise unchanged, then it's pretty nasty to use them regardless. Especially given that you've used those harsh words not because they're necessarily helping convey your point, but rather as to vent your own frustration. And while that's understandable, can't you at least see how people may not want to be screamed at, as cathartic as that may be to you, when you could say the exact same logical things without making them feel bad with just a little extra effort on your end?
 
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In a Feudal but spacefairing civilization? Yeah, I can easily see those who advance or keep technology being afforded noble titles. Could basically be seen as each researcher's "House" being the custodians of that particular field. A noble house dedicated to engineering, for example. We don't have any real life examples, but I see no reason why a still-feudal but technologically advanced society wouldn't be set up that way.

Hm, it is possible, but why would a system like that develop, when real life feudalism did not? I am curious, what do you think might cause that?
 
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This all sounds pretty great. Maybe it was mentioned earlier and I didn’t see it in the thread, but how is wide versus tall being defined here? Is it by planet count or system count?

This is one of those things that feels important, because there’s so many fun goodies to find on the map like access to leviathans, l-gates, wormholes, gateways, and so on. Even if I want to play a tall empire, it feels like I have to forego exploration, and have a huge footprint as far as system count goes if I want access to all that stuff.
 
It occurred to me today that while I think these are likely to be /good/ changes, one of the things that I like most about Stellaris is that every once in a while it changes into almost a new game, upsetting the usual playstyles and metas, which extends its lifespan for me. Personally I think 1.9 was the "best" in the sense of best working, most balanced and with the best AI, but even so, I wouldn't have wanted Stellaris to stop there.

One note, for when big changes are happening is that it would. be nice to see something done to make a "vassalize them" playstyle work again, which it really hasn't since said 1.9.
 
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Please keep this thread on topic and productive please.
 
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Pretty much my point. Culture is an extremely complex and diverse thing, and while i understand why, from a game resource economy standpoint, it makes sense to unify all unity production into a single work type, this is precisely the last thing Stellaris needs.

What this game desperately needs is more variety in the play-stiles it offers. Developing deeper game mechanics related to internal politics and culture would go a long way in accomplishing that.

Reading between the lines, it seems pretty clear me to an internal political rework is on the way, is probably the subject of this next expansion and that this rework is in effect laying the groundwork for that expansion. They've mentioned institutions in several dev posts now (albeit only occasionally across two years) and the situation system they are describing really requires an internal political rework in order to reach it's full potential. This is coming in other words.

But my specific beef with the planets full of bureaucrats is not that it's mechanically bad, but that it is aesthetically a bad fit. As I cited in my own post, I simply cannot imagine a planet full of Minbari or Klingons toiling away in long shifts making sure every form is completed appropriately and filed in the exact spot. I can imagine it for many, maybe even if most empire types but some I simply cannot. Anyone with the Warrior Code civic for example who lives in a society which prizes combat and personal honour, the very idea that there would be entire planets of them who simply toil away in offices seems ridiculous, it actually mars the fantasy.

Similarly Spiritualist Empires would probably not engage in anything as soul destroying as a colossal bureaucracy, which is surely the point of the trope cited. The planet full of bureaucrats is either satire, as Douglas Adams's Vogons, or demonstrative of how remote and impersonal a Galactic Empire can be as in the Foundation series.

I would prefer a reasonable approach to this point, where MOST empires would have bureaucracies as the dominat form of unity generation but that where it the idea of that actually grates against the fantasy, they are replaced with something else to fulfil the same or a similar purpose. Perhaps Spiritualist Empires would get Priests and Temples instead of Bureacrats and Administrative Offices, no mechanical change in output but the all important aesthetic difference preserved. Warrior Code could replace Bureaucrats or Priests with Duelists as it does now, reflecting a society whose unity is derived from battle and combat. These changes would not mean that these Empires don't have bureaucrats filing the forms, but it would reflect they generate unity in a different way.
 
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Reading between the lines, it seems pretty clear me to an internal political rework is on the way, is probably the subject of this next expansion and that this rework is in effect laying the groundwork for that expansion. They've mentioned institutions in several dev posts now (albeit only occasionally across two years) and the situation system they are describing really requires an internal political rework in order to reach it's full potential. This is coming in other words.

But my specific beef with the planets full of bureaucrats is not that it's mechanically bad, but that it is aesthetically a bad fit. As I cited in my own post, I simply cannot imagine a planet full of Minbari or Klingons toiling away in long shifts making sure every form is completed appropriately and filed in the exact spot. I can imagine it for many, maybe even if most empire types but some I simply cannot. Anyone with the Warrior Code civic for example who lives in a society which prizes combat and personal honour, the very idea that there would be entire planets of them who simply toil away in offices seems ridiculous, it actually mars the fantasy.

Similarly Spiritualist Empires would probably not engage in anything as soul destroying as a colossal bureaucracy, which is surely the point of the trope cited. The planet full of bureaucrats is either satire, as Douglas Adams's Vogons, or demonstrative of how remote and impersonal a Galactic Empire can be as in the Foundation series.

I would prefer a reasonable approach to this point, where MOST empires would have bureaucracies as the dominat form of unity generation but that where it the idea of that actually grates against the fantasy, they are replaced with something else to fulfil the same or a similar purpose. Perhaps Spiritualist Empires would get Priests and Temples instead of Bureacrats and Administrative Offices, no mechanical change in output but the all important aesthetic difference preserved. Warrior Code could replace Bureaucrats or Priests with Duelists as it does now, reflecting a society whose unity is derived from battle and combat. These changes would not mean that these Empires don't have bureaucrats filing the forms, but it would reflect they generate unity in a different way.

Indeed, it's an issue that they seem to be treating all civilizations as a one size fits all, as if there is no nuance or differences to each civilization in game. An Imperialist Empire with Entrenched Nobility, couldn't be a more different society to the default United Earth (aka Star Trek) as just one example. The range of differences this game provides as options is hilariously vast, and the system needs more options to accommodate these things.
 
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Also, I hope they seriously consider redoing Police State for this update, because a +1 Unity Bonus for Enforcer jobs is a joke. Also, it should provide at least +1 Encryption due to the obvious security state the ethic implies.
 
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In a Feudal but spacefairing civilization? Yeah, I can easily see those who advance or keep technology being afforded noble titles. Could basically be seen as each researcher's "House" being the custodians of that particular field. A noble house dedicated to engineering, for example. We don't have any real life examples, but I see no reason why a still-feudal but technologically advanced society wouldn't be set up that way.
Look, you're not getting my point.

What you're describing is head-canon for how the scientists are SOURCED and recruited. Sure, no issues with that.

So yeah, a feudal society will have scientists that are some level of nobility. Ok. I agree. So the scientists you have available to recruit come from a background of noble birth, not peasants in the field or behind a clerk desk. Ok. This is simple head-canon with no mechanical implications for the game.

My point:

In order for them to be immune to being replaced, the position of heading a research department or being a captain of a survey vessel would have to be hereditary and subject to some sort of trans-generational contract with the sovereign.
This is what I consider clunky, as the scientists will not have heirs, they will just - clunkily - be immune to being replaced.
I also think it's clunky to consider scientists unreplaceable nobility, because these positions in a feudal society would be something like a master of the horse, or a spy master, or a majordomus, or whatever... i.e. an ad-hoc specific function and not subject to a high-level title in itself, though a higher title-holder may hold it.

That's my point.
 
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Look, you're not getting my point.

What you're describing is head-canon for how the scientists are SOURCED and recruited. Sure, no issues with that.

So yeah, a feudal society will have scientists that are some level of nobility. Ok. I agree. So the scientists you have available to recruit come from a background of noble birth, not peasants in the field or behind a clerk desk. Ok. This is simple head-canon with no mechanical implications for the game.

My point:

In order for them to be immune to being replaced, the position of heading a research department or being a captain of a survey vessel would have to be hereditary and subject to some sort of trans-generational contract with the sovereign.
This is what I consider clunky, as the scientists will not have heirs, they will just - clunkily - be immune to being replaced.
I also think it's clunky to consider scientists unreplaceable nobility, because these positions in a feudal society would be something like a master of the horse, or a spy master, or a majordomus, or whatever... i.e. an ad-hoc specific function and not subject to a high-level title in itself, though a higher title-holder may hold it.

That's my point.

What's funny, is this is the same company that makes Crusader Kings. None of your Courtiers or Council members are immune to being fired. Technically your Vassals aren't immune to being "fired" either, you'll just likely gain tyranny for it. SO the idea that the Feudal Ethic makes Scientists immune to this simply makes no sense, and either does the lack of upkeep while employed.
 
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