Stellaris Dev Diary #243 - 3.3 'Libra' is out, now what?

[sillyrobot]

And it’s game-changing.

You have no idea how exhausted I am of game-changing introductions to this game.

 

[fourteenfour]

I truly wish you would move to a more troop based espionage system. Where we can raise a limited number of agents/spies with the empire capital and train more with a specific building. Then deploy them solo or in groups to perform actions against an enemy empire or even to defend our own. It could even be extended to have a leader assigned to each team that is deployed using a simple organization screen.

I just really dislike using envoys and not having a defensive game. A new leader type is just so much better but extended to a leader and field agent model would be more along the lines of how work is actually done.

 

[Darklight731]

Everybody gangsta till we get a new end-game crisis!

THE HUNTERS ARE COMING

 

[Flamgino]

A new leader type is just so much better but extended to a leader and field agent model would be more along the lines of how work is actually done.

Actually the envoy system is more accurate. A lot of spy work is done out of embassies because the diplomats there have diplomatic immunity, and if they're caught spying they become "person non grata" and are ejected from the country instead of being arrested. Embassy spies will then coordinate with a variety of agents in the country. On that level, there's agents, who are actively working with the spy nation (this could be for money, ideology, or blackmail), and "useful idiots", who are people that support the spy nation's goals without really understanding them. A good example of a "useful idiot" would be a news anchor who repeats a lot of propaganda in favor of the spy nation - in that case often the spies just have to invite the anchor to dinner on occasion and give him ideas to repeat; it's not illegal and the anchor spreads propaganda willingly.

The real problem with the system is that it's comically weak. Take steal technology:
First you have to gather up 40 intel on an enemy nation, which can be confounded by encryption and may require some prior asset missions or gather intelligence missions. Then, when you can actually launch it, it has three stages, and each stage has a waiting period where the spy rolls RNG to see if it can advance to the next stage. Each stage may take months to complete. At any time, circumstances could force the mission to abort and fail. If you do make it to the end of this process, you get a single T1 tech at 20% completion. You pay a lump sum up front for this, and an ongoing upkeep cost. Once it's over, you can't immediately launch another one, because first you have to recover your intel level, and second there's a mandatory cooldown.

Espionage is such an awful mechanic we're lucky you don't have to play a minigame on top of everything else just to make it function. I have modded away all the extra stages on the espionage events so they're done more quickly, and it's still a weak mechanic. Making it cost influence would be another nerf on top of it already sucking raw eggs like it has a salmonella death wish.

 

[Dragatus]

Meanwhile, 3.4 is just around the corner. Currently planned for May, the Custodian side of the 3.4 update will continue to refine the balance around Unity and address some more of the feedback from the Open Beta and 3.3 release, as well as being the target for the planned release of the Situations system first described in Dev Diary 234. We’ll give Situations and our planned uses for them a complete Dev Diary in the near future.

My main feedback for 3.3 is that as a normal empire it's too easy to unlock all your traditions with just passive Unity from happy factions. This means that it's still optimal to ignore active Unity production in favor of more research. I also think sprawl penalties are too low. If you want I can throw some math at you to make the case for that.

One of the changes we’re planning for the May update is inspired by some of the feedback we received during the Unity Open Beta. We’re switching the initial costs for Espionage Operations to Influence rather than a massive pile of Energy Credits. Operation Upkeep will remain in Energy Credits. Exact values are subject to change.

This is good. Now give the operations more teeth.

Meanwhile, earlier in the tree we’ve decided to add some combat benefits to the tree to represent their enhanced ECM and ECCM capabilities. Empires focusing in Subterfuge now have an easier time locking on to enemy ships, as well as foiling the attempts of others to do the same to them.

View attachment 810824
Computer's locked. Getting a signal.

View attachment 810823
Go dead. Shut everything down and make like a hole in the void.​

As with the earlier changes, these numbers are also still subject to change and a deeper review of Espionage Operations is still planned in the future.

I love the idea, but numbers need tweaking. I'd take +10 Tracking over +5 Chance to Evade any day (because artillery battleships) and Codebreaking is more fun than Encryption. I don't really worry about what the AI might do to me with espionage, but I enjoy gathering intel and having information on the AI. You take both traditions eventually anyway, but it would be nice if the order in which to do it wasn't a no-brainer.

A quality of life change being made to the Idyllic Bloom civic is also planned for 3.4 (coming in May).

This however is very good.

 

[Displacement]

This looks like great news for the espionage system, as well as for Influence as a resource, which is currently in an unbalanced state. Hopefully Planetary Ascensions will get the glowup they need in the next update as well.

The tracking and evasion bonuses in the Subterfuge tree might also open for slightly more variation in the combat meta - Corvettes, which are already viable in the endgame, will be extremely deadly against Battleship spam when they have even more evasion, unless the Battleship owners have also taken the same tree. Hopefully that doesn't just end up making that tree mandatory in the meta. Maybe the tracking bonus should be removed in that case.

That new teased contraption is very interesting... it's probably a new structure, but I can't help seeing the potential for a transforming giant space robot, a sci-fi fantasy that Stellaris is sorely lacking in!

Corvettes already cap out on evasion by the end game. What you want is an evasion-stacking destroyer with psionic ascension.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

The greebly thing looks king of modular, and its a game changer... that ties to situations or internal politics...

Playable space nomads? Thats been requested a looooong time.

 

[metatoaster]

Thanks for the patch and the roadmap.

I think you should invest more effort on polishing the core systems of the game. For instance, it doesn't make sense to me that it's impossible to get optimal pops to jobs assignments in a lot of cases. It's the bread and butter of the game! It should be getting an overwhelming amount of attention and resources.

Same for the whole approach to claiming the map by racing for chokepoints clashing majorly with the "forced open borders during truce" mechanic.

Gotta build a solid foundation before stacking tons of features on top.

Beyond that, I'd love to see event chains that involve your AI neighbours, even if it means taking over a part of that nations' behavior over for a while. The galaxy feels like a pretty boring, story-less place once you're finished with the anomalies and dig sites.

 

[Idle America]

Come to think of it, shouldn't terraforming in general require special resources? Maybe when it gets overhauled, we could use different resources for different changes, like gasses for the atmosphere, minerals for landmasses, etc.?

On a different note, I have a small request for the next update: let us choose which preset empires spawn in our games? Right now, we can only do that with custom empires, and I REALLY want a UNE vs. COM game.

 

[L.Y.HJ]

Influence is very short at the beginning, spying with influence this method is not good, at least should not use that much

 

[CGLT]

Well,maybe we need a refund and then pay cohesiveness for the game instead.-------According to a player ,my friend.
(Maybe there are some translation mistake)
That is my friends' opinion to the update of 3.3......
Well,we do think it is a bad way to employ scientists with cohesiveness.

He said: Paradox want to teach us how to play game instead of let us play.There s no balance! I wonder the employee have ever played the game even once before the brand new update released.The feeling is so bad as i entered.

In my opinion, i cant be more agree with him.It is too hard at the beginning without several extra scientists to explore the way.when employed scientists,you ll dont have the cohesiveness to accept traditions.Employing leaders,updating planets,release policys and so on......all need cohesiveness.it costs too much.

And i dont think it is good to cancel Upper limit of scale and let us endure punishment directly instead.It do limit the happiness of playing (Sorry that i cant come up with a better word to express my feeling),it just like wash feet when wearing socks.Hope you can change it

I d appreciate it if you can take my advice.

 

[CGLT]

We manage to catch most of the bugs still internally, running the Open Beta adds overhead that is generally only worth it for big overhauls that we think are risky.
Modders will be able to get early access through the usual program we run closer to the next release

i do think it is needed! Sorry to say directly,the balance need a change--------and please take players advice.The new update changes so much,and the balance is really poor. Maybe open beta does helps a lot,and avoid making balance mistake.

 

[Seyfried]

That concept art feels like there should should be a tiny little player ship at the bottom shooting at it.

 

[RedComDen]

Regarding what the Crisis Expansion Team has been working on, they’re not quite ready to share that information quite yet. Soon™.

Does it meen crisises will be reworked?

 

[Dragatus]

No, it's an internal joke. They jokingly call the team that is responsible for expansions the Crisis Team as opposed to Custodian Team.

 

[Commander Tobe]

No, it's an internal joke. They jokingly call the team that is responsible for expansions the Crisis Team as opposed to Custodian Team.

I had no idea

 

[Wideyed]

So just my 2 cents in a multimillion dollar pot...
Not a fan of nerfing wide empires by removing mechanics to manage admin cap. I thought that was a good and balanced option for playstyle.
I like the Unity instead of NRG costs, & edict changes ... but the stupid move with admin cap blatantly pushing players into Tall rather than wide... bleach. Think I'll go back to 3.2, see if you unmistake yourselves in 3.4.

 

[Starfury]

So just my 2 cents in a multimillion dollar pot...
Not a fan of nerfing wide empires by removing mechanics to manage admin cap. I thought that was a good and balanced option for playstyle.
I like the Unity instead of NRG costs, & edict changes ... but the stupid move with admin cap blatantly pushing players into Tall rather than wide... bleach. Think I'll go back to 3.2, see if you unmistake yourselves in 3.4.

Ehm, wide wasn't a balanced option in 3.2, it was the only viable option.
In 3.3 wide is still always better than tall, it's just no longer way stronger.

An empire with 1000 size pays 200% science cost, an empire half as big pays 150%. This means the tall empire still has to pay 3/4 the cost with half the empire. And the bigger empire also has double the alloy production.

 

[Jon the Wizard]

I would love to see religious cultures get some love in the same way Megacorps did.

 

[MonzUn]

Can you guys share any broad ideas that have been kicked around about espionage?

Nice try - Spy!

For a more serious answer: Apart from what was shared here, we can't say much as there are multiple initiatives for how to improve Espionage being tossed around and for some of them we're still in an early discussion phase for some of it. We would rather share thought out solutions and ideas rather than the brainstorming version that will only raise more questions than it answers