Stellaris Dev Diary #243 - 3.3 'Libra' is out, now what?

[SectorsAreOkay]

The patch at large is nice but, you really need to look at three things in my opinion:

1. Ambition/Edict cost still scales to an extreme degree. This actually makes Unity worth less. As you won't really be able to afford Ambitions in the same way you used to be. Discouraging an increase in Unity production, as Unity production negatively scales with itself as it requires new pops, districts, etc all of whom in turn increase the Unity requirement.

2. Planetary Ascensions are currently absolutely not worth it, in fringe cases on might get minor benefits from it such as using a few tiers on an Ecu when you never used them before. But the cost increasing with each one, permanently breaks this quickly. To the point where one should rather reduce Unity production in favor of direct resource production because it'll be more efficient than Planetary Ascension.

3. You really should look into the Living Mental/Nanite Edicts. Currently they scale with Empire Sprawl. The problem is, these resources are INCREDIBLY limited in supply. They don't grow alongside your empire, nor are there any ways to increase them beyond a relatively small income. This leads to a point you can reach relatively quickly where both of these resources are pretty much entireless useless. As you would need to wait for years before you can run either edict for a single month.

To point number 2: planetary ascensions need to do something that's fundamentally different from what you can already do. Because you are right, the better strategy is to just produce more resources instead of unity. If unity converts (via ascensions) to some number of resources, and it's a poor ratio, then it's never worth it.

This does highlight a problem I have with PDX games, which is that they have way too many +5%/-5% modifiers but not much that actually changes what you can do, or changes how it behaves in a qualitative way. Ascensions should make planets qualitatively better, or at least different, from non-ascended planets.

 

[Methone]

Is... is that a Crisis Colossus Concept Art I spy?!

 

[Von 9]

Ditto on the Planetary Ascensions. They are at the same not exciting enough to live up to the term and, if somewhat viable, only for half of planetary designations. Please take a closer look on the math there. They can be very interesting Unity instrument instead, if they offered unique, game-changing advantages.

 

[NHunter_rus]

Is... is that a Crisis Colossus Concept Art I spy?!

Dunno, looks like something from a reptilian shipset to me.

I will say, it looks like some sort of a new megastructure. A starlifter/starforge perhaps?

 

[shadow737]

While I don't mind the idea of adding an influence cost to espionage, it has to be a low end cost if it's going to be done because who is going to what to expend large amounts influence while there's a single system left to expand to or if there is a single system to make a claim for on your border? 45 influence cost makes trying to acquire a single agent the same as making a claim on a border system. And no asset is worth the same as a star system unless that is just a 2 pointer with no good lanes of advance.

Which would turn espionage into a system you'd mostly use either if you're playing tall or you've effectively run out of space to expand into. Even then you still want to keep most influence for making claims.

Espionage needs to be kept something you want to use, not something you look at and say "There's more valuable uses of my resources."

Literally a habitat is worth effectively three asset attempts and a habitat on the right spot mining the right resource is worth more than twenty assets ever will be.

Maybe this could work if there were some sort of structure or structures that could be built that would create additional influence on a monthly basis. "Great works" or the equivalent that generate influence for the empire that builds them, but at an extremely high cost of construction.

Or repeatable decisions that start event chains that cost a great deal, but if accomplished, meaning there's a chance of failure add a sum of influence to the successful nation.

 

[Dryvus]

How about you fix your launcher
Like, yesterday

 

[Calvax]

Looks good the situations system sounds like it has a lot of potential.

I hope in the balance passed you look into civics that increase edict fund. Because of the way the cost scales it’s a big nerf compared to the previous system where you got +1 edict capacity.

 

[Leylos]

While I don't mind the idea of adding an influence cost to espionage, it has to be a low end cost if it's going to be done because who is going to what to expend large amounts influence while there's a single system left to expand to or if there is a single system to make a claim for on your border? 45 influence cost makes trying to acquire a single agent the same as making a claim on a border system. And no asset is worth the same as a star system unless that is just a 2 pointer with no good lanes of advance.

Which would turn espionage into a system you'd mostly use either if you're playing tall or you've effectively run out of space to expand into. Even then you still want to keep most influence for making claims.

Espionage needs to be kept something you want to use, not something you look at and say "There's more valuable uses of my resources."

Literally a habitat is worth effectively three asset attempts and a habitat on the right spot mining the right resource is worth more than twenty assets ever will be.

Maybe this could work if there were some sort of structure or structures that could be built that would create additional influence on a monthly basis. "Great works" or the equivalent that generate influence for the empire that builds them, but at an extremely high cost of construction.

Or repeatable decisions that start event chains that cost a great deal, but if accomplished, meaning there's a chance of failure add a sum of influence to the successful nation.

My thoughts exactly.

45 influence for an asset is way too much. 10 I might pay, but 45? Not a chance. I shudder to think what the costs will be for some of the more difficult operations.

Am I going to have to pay 100+ influence to sabotage a single module on a starbase? For that price I would expect the entire starbase to blow up to be honest.

 

[Commander Tobe]

"And it's game-changing" - well I'm intrigued.

Also good to know that the team looks into Espionage Operations in the future. Currently they are useless.

Please go for
1) Breaking up alliances between specific target empires
2) Let us choose what tech to steal
3) Kidnap / assassinate leaders

These are the must-have mechanics in any espionage system. Every other idea is only the icing

Edit: The reason I'm saying this so drastically is that right now it's not a good strategy to specialize in espionage. You are better off to improve anything else like military, tech, trade or pop production. In the future, operations should be meaningful and impactful, and also cost an adequately high amount of a resource with a discount and improved success chances if you specialize in it to be a valid (and fun) game strategy.

 

[-Herek-]

What are Situations?

I know you talked about it in one of your diaries, that it will be similar to Situations in EU4, but I've never played that game so I'm not sure what to imagine under the term Situations.

How exactly Situation system works in EU4?

Regarding the concept art - maybe a Megastructure that will allow you to move planets or get an asteroid and shoot it on other empire's Capital?

Edit.: or a thing for creating/removing hyperlanes.

 

[Cymsdale]

Last time I really played around with espionage, most of the operations barely seemed worth it even if they cost nothing, so I’m not sure how an influence cost is going to give me any incentive to use them.

 

[GnoSIS]

While I don't mind the idea of adding an influence cost to espionage, it has to be a low end cost if it's going to be done because who is going to what to expend large amounts influence while there's a single system left to expand to or if there is a single system to make a claim for on your border? 45 influence cost makes trying to acquire a single agent the same as making a claim on a border system. And no asset is worth the same as a star system unless that is just a 2 pointer with no good lanes of advance.

Which would turn espionage into a system you'd mostly use either if you're playing tall or you've effectively run out of space to expand into. Even then you still want to keep most influence for making claims.

Espionage needs to be kept something you want to use, not something you look at and say "There's more valuable uses of my resources."

Literally a habitat is worth effectively three asset attempts and a habitat on the right spot mining the right resource is worth more than twenty assets ever will be.

Maybe this could work if there were some sort of structure or structures that could be built that would create additional influence on a monthly basis. "Great works" or the equivalent that generate influence for the empire that builds them, but at an extremely high cost of construction.

Or repeatable decisions that start event chains that cost a great deal, but if accomplished, meaning there's a chance of failure add a sum of influence to the successful nation.

Even as it stands, with operations costing resources it's bad. At the very least the missions should become x2-x3 better. I wasn't pushing buttons now, with influence? forget it, just throw the dialogue box to the trash bin.

I think that we need to introduce espionage points instead, and have them balanced concurrently with other systems, instead of hijacking another resource like influence. Because you need to play with espionage in parallel, and not have it interfere with other systems and your growth too much, as both ways (current and suggested) remove your other options from the game.

 

[DeanTheDull]

While I don't mind the idea of adding an influence cost to espionage, it has to be a low end cost if it's going to be done because who is going to what to expend large amounts influence while there's a single system left to expand to or if there is a single system to make a claim for on your border? 45 influence cost makes trying to acquire a single agent the same as making a claim on a border system. And no asset is worth the same as a star system unless that is just a 2 pointer with no good lanes of advance.

Which would turn espionage into a system you'd mostly use either if you're playing tall or you've effectively run out of space to expand into. Even then you still want to keep most influence for making claims.

Espionage needs to be kept something you want to use, not something you look at and say "There's more valuable uses of my resources."

Literally a habitat is worth effectively three asset attempts and a habitat on the right spot mining the right resource is worth more than twenty assets ever will be.

Maybe this could work if there were some sort of structure or structures that could be built that would create additional influence on a monthly basis. "Great works" or the equivalent that generate influence for the empire that builds them, but at an extremely high cost of construction.

Or repeatable decisions that start event chains that cost a great deal, but if accomplished, meaning there's a chance of failure add a sum of influence to the successful nation.

Agree. Influence (still) has too many valid uses as an expansion resource- habitats and system claims and claiming systems- and diplomacy in general - pop growth and tech efficiency and energy and security pacts and federations and bilateral diplomacy gins - to be dumped into Espionage. You wouldn't want it early game, when you're scrambling for systems and diplomatic deals for allies to mitigate threats, and you wouldn't want it mid-game, when you're claiming systems in small empires or building habitats, and you wouldn't want it late-middle game, when it you're building gateways.

Unless the cost is totally trivial- like 10 or less an operation- it's quite likely too much.

 

[Liquid Ghost]

One of our agents did manage to sneak some of the wonderful work of the Concept Art Team out though...

View attachment 810820
It’s a thing, with greebles! And it’s game-changing.​

I hope not any Bothan had to die for this leak to happen.

 

[Gabarius]

The patch at large is nice but, you really need to look at three things in my opinion:

1. Ambition/Edict cost still scales to an extreme degree. This actually makes Unity worth less. As you won't really be able to afford Ambitions in the same way you used to be. Discouraging an increase in Unity production, as Unity production negatively scales with itself as it requires new pops, districts, etc all of whom in turn increase the Unity requirement.

2. Planetary Ascensions are currently absolutely not worth it, in fringe cases on might get minor benefits from it such as using a few tiers on an Ecu when you never used them before. But the cost increasing with each one, permanently breaks this quickly. To the point where one should rather reduce Unity production in favor of direct resource production because it'll be more efficient than Planetary Ascension.

3. You really should look into the Living Mental/Nanite Edicts. Currently they scale with Empire Sprawl. The problem is, these resources are INCREDIBLY limited in supply. They don't grow alongside your empire, nor are there any ways to increase them beyond a relatively small income. This leads to a point you can reach relatively quickly where both of these resources are pretty much entireless useless. As you would need to wait for years before you can run either edict for a single month.

^ all of these are super needed changes. At least make planetary ascension reversible. Also, being able to rip the cybernetics out of pops via genetic modification would be great. I don’t want to be a spiritual empire and have to have half-robots walking around, and there’s utterly no benefit for the change that now you can’t remove the trait.

 

[GnoSIS]

Agree. Influence (still) has too many valid uses as an expansion resource- habitats and system claims and claiming systems- to be dumped into Espionage. You wouldn't want it early game, when you're scrambling for systems and diplomatic deals for allies to mitigate threats, and you wouldn't want it mid-game, when you're claiming systems in small empires or building habitats, and you wouldn't want it late-middle game, when it you're building gateways.

Unless the cost is totally trivial- like 10 or less an operation- it's quite likely too much.

Any number of influence is too much!

Unless this is paradoxes Psyops, to get us to stop invading others and blob. Guess what PDX, it's not working! At least not with me. I don't care about the analytics they're getting from the game.

 

[Shadowstrike]

You know, when you talk about the 'Custodian side of the 3.4 update' it heavily implies there is going to be a Crisis side for the update as well (I think the crisis name is going to stick). much in the same way as talking about the dark side of the moon implies the existence of another side not currently being talked about.

New release incoming?

Timing wise, that makes sense. Each major DLC has been about a year and change since the last one. We haven't gotten a story pack for a while, but that might be explained by the species packs getting more gameplay mechanics than they used to.

 

[KNakamura]

I dunno, I usually have tons of influence mid-game. I see the logic.

(Also, lol: "Ignore the data, go with my entirely subjective opinion.")

How about you fix your launcher
Like, yesterday

https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/our-games/launcher v2 just launched apparently.

 

[Kommunist Fried Chicken]

I hope the operations' effect deserve their costs. For the effects now, I doubt.

 

[Jman5]

Great to see Espionage getting a look. Here is a Hodge-podge of changes I think would improve it.

• List the base intel cost for completing the operation. Some cost none, others cost half, and others cost the full amount. Giving people a better idea would let people make more informed decision.
• Show both Operation and Intel Category icons so people don't have to hover over it to know if their asset can be used to boost it.
• Spark Diplomatic Incidence and Smear Campaign need to be improved and provide the player with more feedback on what they've done. Currently it often feels like it didn't do anything.
• Closed Borders should provide +1 encryption
• Arm Privateers simply needs to be stronger. Get rid of the first two levels (1-2 corvettes really?!). They should at least be able to take out an outpost.
• Arm Privateers should spawn larger Marauder Space Station at higher fleet power.
• Arm Privateers should be targetable to a specific system like Sabotage Starbase lets you target a specific station.
• Increase the max Encryption and max Codebreaking to 6-8. It's too easy to cap out at 4 and makes the various civics, traditions, and ascension perks too weak.
• Sleeper Cell should tell you that it also provides +1 operation speed
• Counter-Espionage should be a thing. You should be able to have an envoy boost Encryption and make it harder for others to perform operations.
• High Intel needs to reveal more information for technology, Government, and Diplomacy Categories.
• Technology: Let spying empires actually look at what you're researching and have researched.
• Government: Let spying empires see what traditions and ascension perks you're choosing
• Diplomacy: I think you should do a better job of hiding relations via the map UI buttons and only reveal those once you've gotten high enough intel.
• Max Intel is only at 99-100 which means it's annoying to keep up. I'd like it if Gather Information would let you go up to 105/100.
• If someone performs an operation on you, have a % chance to actually detect and inform the player that someone just pulled off an operation. Further % chance to reveal who it was. Higher encryption = higher chance of figuring it out. If AI detects it, it will sour relations.