• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #266 - Rise a Knight!

Greetings squires!

Mr. Cosmogone here, on behalf of the Lord Commander Eladrin who gave me his blessing to tell you more about the mysterious Knights of the Toxic God.

image6.png

“Pledge thy Life to Realm and Quest”

The Origin is content oriented, but it does come with some unique mechanics to support the narrative and put you in charge of an empire dedicated to a quest.

Starting with your Homeworld, which still bears the scars of the passage of the Toxic God in the form of five unique blockers:

image7.png

I hope you brought your swimsuit!

As the quest progresses, you might get a chance to upgrade these into powerful assets, but at the beginning of the game, they will be a thorn in your side, reducing the number districts you can build on your homeworld.

Fear not however, for the Order has built you a brand new habitat to serve as your springboard to galactic dominance!

The habitat comes with several unique features, including an imposing building:

image5.png

“No fearsome Foe nor Vastness black,
No moat or wild shall hold thee back.”

Knights are expensive specialists who will provide you with quest progress, and increasingly powerful boons as time goes on, while the Lord Commander is a ruler stratum job which is basically a super knight.

Both of these jobs are supported by Squires, who mainly come from the habitat’s unique districts:

image1.png

“Let Faith and Honor be thy Guide,
To Chivalry and Oath abide.”

All of this is done in service of the Quest, a unique situation which will slowly progress towards, well towards something.. Well, actually, multiple somethings which will be up to you to discover.

Let’s just say that it’s going to take a while, and cost you a considerable amount of money and alloys.

image3.png

1819 months is about 150 years, but there are ways to speed up the quest.

The Quest, the Knights and the Order will definitely put some stress on your economy in the early game, but having the elite of your nation ready to serve also comes with a few benefits, like the Knightly Duties policy:

image2.png

“Now raise thy Sword, take up the Fight”

And while your start will be rougher than most, should you overcome the challenges thrown your way, you will find that the knights can prove very valuable. That’s all for today, I’ll leave you with a peek at a late game habitat setup that occurred during one of our playtest, with only a little bit of minmaxing involved:

image4.png

“Swear thy Vow, and Rise a Knight!”

What's Next?

Is it time already? This Thursday we'll have @PDX-Loke providing the Patch Notes for the Toxoids Species Pack and the Stellaris 3.5 "Fornax" update!

See you then!
 
  • 72Like
  • 29Love
  • 13
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:
So this is basically Stellaris version of a mission tree?

It's a shame that there's still no regular Knightly Order civic. I've been wanting one ever since the civic system was revealed back in 1.2.
 
  • 20
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Whilst it looks like the origin will be fun to play through … I have to ask, how repayable will it really be?

I fear it will be fun to play through once, maybe twice.

AIs spawning with this origin likely aren't going to play meaningfully differently vs other AIs (there are no "knightly Corvettes" or admiral/general traits to make fighting them visibly different).

I remember hearing on the stream yesterday that there wont be much in the way of randomisation, too.

I feel like there ought to be either a "Knightly whatever" civic or a tradition tree [mutually exclusive with the origin] that opens up squires and knights to other empires (maybe with less in the way of power from special policies etc vs the origin), for people that have played the origin, but want to play with something else and still want that feudal element in their societies, too.

Also balance wise, I'm wondering why the start has 3 less pops only? I'd have thought that getting a free habitat would mean that - also - one of your 2 guaranteed worlds is removed from the game, like the quantum catapult. The modifiers to your homeworld only make it a bit smaller early on by the looks of it - -5 size in all - that's totally ignorable, given that you don't fill out your homeworlds districts for a few decades usually.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 4
Reactions:
It's a shame that there's still no regular Knightly Order civic. I've been wanting one ever since the civic system was revealed back in 1.2.
I feel like there ought to be either a "Knightly whatever" civic or a tradition tree [mutually exclusive with the origin] that opens up squires and knights to other empires (maybe with less in the way of power from special policies etc vs the origin), for people that have played the origin, but want to play with something else but still want that feudal element in their societies, too.

Yeah, this sort of mechanic could be integrated into the base game and could bring a lot of value via mods and expansions.

Hopefully this is a test to see how well that might go; but I fear it's a one-off which won't be generalized into something great.
 
  • 10
Reactions:
Yeah, this sort of mechanic could be integrated into the base game and could bring a lot of value via mods and expansions.

Hopefully this is a test to see how well that might go; but I fear it's a one-off which won't be generalized into something great.
Yes it felt like a one off when i was watching the stream yesterday - like a story pack without really having the scope and randomness of a story pack.
Which isnt quite what I wanted out of toxoids. I've come to like the flavoured jobs/civics a lot and this feels like a tease of what could have been a fun civic tbh.

I've been wondering for some time now if many of the unique jobs from civics really ought to be something that occurs on planets periodically. Like, if you take the Anglers civic, you always get anglers/pearl divers, that's within your control. But rarely, on wet worlds that have been ascended, any empire could get anglers or pearl divers, per a rarely spawning planet modifier (fish farms / pearl beds whatever), made more likely if ascended more. It would devalue each civic, a little, as you could get some of its benefits randomly on a single world, with the relevant modifier, but it would add a lot of variety to the game's colonies. One colony might have a "planetary tradition" of functional architecture and another of warrior culture, and so on.

Something like that could be done for the knights, too. Rarely highly stable, ascended, fortress worlds could manifest a knightly order, and you can keep it or expel it. If they dont want to make it in to a full-on civic for some reason.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Awesome! This will definitely be one of my absolute favorite origins! Can't wait to play! Although it's a bit sad, that the whole knightly order theme is so tied to the toxic theme... just like I'm still salty that "Tree of life" isn't available for non-hiveminds.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This feel very weird. Interesting, but weird.

It all seems very… specific? I'm not sure if it's inspired by something, but there's a very predetermined theme to all of this that is somewhat unusual for origins. It's got unique jobs and everything, but it just makes me wonder why a civilization that had their homeworld devastated by a toxic colossus must necessarily be a knightly order, and why we can't play as a knightly order otherwise.

Well, very specific and pidgeonholing your options and results is something Stellaris writing has always had, even in places where it makes little sense.
It's probably a result of limited resources to use and a very writer/novelist inspired approach to the event design.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Whilst it looks like the origin will be fun to play through … I have to ask, how repayable will it really be?
Not that I disagree with the question, but how replayable are on the Shoulders of Giants or Here be Dragons?

This one appears to have more story attached than the others, but it'll still offer a unique gameplay element apart from the story.

Also balance wise, I'm wondering why the start has 3 less pops only? I'd have thought that getting a free habitat would mean that - also - one of your 2 guaranteed worlds is removed from the game, like the quantum catapult. The modifiers to your homeworld only make it a bit smaller early on by the looks of it - -5 size in all - that's totally ignorable, given that you don't fill out your homeworlds districts for a few decades usually.
The 5 blockers also cost you 20 planet capacity which might hurt your pop growth - although building a few city districts to unlock the building slots should fix that soon enough.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Something like that could be done for the knights, too. Rarely highly stable, ascended, fortress worlds could manifest a knightly order, and you can keep it or expel it. If they dont want to make it in to a full-on civic for some reason.

That would be great.

Perhaps it's only likely to happen in some empire types (Feudal Society / Aristocratic Elite / Warrior Culture / etc.) and prohibited by some civics (e.g. Citizen Service).

If you conquer a planet with an Order, you'd have a chance to keep it anyway, with story events around working it into your culture -- or changing your culture to suit it better. Expect some pain.

Undertuned buildings like Noble Estate might get a tie-in perk if you have an Order on a planet; that building could host a few Squires or an additional Knight job.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
It is all nice. BUT - should not we be able to colonise previously inaccessible acid/toxic worlds as Toxoids? For example Venus in the Solar System?
There's a special ascension perk for that.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Not that I disagree with the question, but how replayable are on the Shoulders of Giants or Here be Dragons?

This one appears to have more story attached than the others, but it'll still offer a unique gameplay element apart from the story.
They are similarly problematic. Which is what concerns me. Though, here be dragons does have the whole how to train your dragon thing going for it, which is interesting when going up against someone else with the origin.

IMO its not enough for an origin to be interesting on the first or second go around, it needs to have a unique mechanic (as origins are essentially super civics) OR will make the AI using it do something interesting/dangerous - at least that way even if you dont use it, if you encounter such a society it shakes up your game all the same.

The 5 blockers also cost you 20 planet capacity which might hurt your pop growth - although building a few city districts to unlock the building slots should fix that soon enough.
In addition to city building, the combination of pops growing on the habitat and 2 guaranteed worlds will more than make up for that.

That would be great.

Perhaps it's only likely to happen in some empire types (Feudal Society / Aristocratic Elite / Warrior Culture / etc.) and prohibited by some civics (e.g. Citizen Service).

If you conquer a planet with an Order, you'd have a chance to keep it anyway, with story events around working it into your culture -- or changing your culture to suit it better. Expect some pain.

Undertuned buildings like Noble Estate might get a tie-in perk if you have an Order on a planet; that building could host a few Squires or an additional Knight job.
Yes, precisely. I do remember an old dynamic political events uses a system a bit like what i described (though for custom modifiers, not civic-related ones), and it worked rather well.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Nice origin.
As other have said however, its thematic connection to the toxicity feels oddly specific; it sounds like something that would fit a whole lot more civilization concepts and builds if kept more generic i think. Perhaps even in the form of a civic.

It almost feels like a waste to keep the knight order thing tied to the theme of toxicity instead of opening it to other kinds of roleplay.

Cool stuff nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
  • 9Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
I like this. Nuanced deeper roleplay elements often don't have that big a impact on a playthrough, this appears to matter, for a change and can make a difference. Should be fun to use or play against.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
“Pledge thy Life to Realm and Quest
No fearsome Foe nor Vastness black,
No moat or wild shall hold thee back.
Let Faith and Honor be thy Guide,
To Chivalry and Oath abide.
Now raise thy Sword, take up the Fight
Swear thy Vow, and Rise a Knight!"

Also I hope you brought your swimsuit! :p
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
This looks awesome. I wish there was a non-Toxic version of something like this, perhaps as part of Humanoids, or a future Story Pack, but I definitely enjoyed it, and will be buying it regardless.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
In the most constructive way possible, I think this diary is in the 'this is pretty good, but could be better' category of dev diary clear communication/writing sense.

I'm interested in this origin, but to be honest there isn't much to go on here to talk the mechanics. Like the shroud enclave, this has the feel of one of those systems where there's a lot more under the hood than apparent, but because it's not apparent it's hard to identify the what and why to build interest. Based on what's here, there's not really an obvious build to work with, in part because the goal of keeping a secret/mystery/not-spoiling is getting in the way of communicating an expectation to the audience.

Like, what even is the base job output of a knight? Normally when you show unique civics, you show the close-up of the job and the tool tip. The building tooltip conflates all the different jobs, and because it's unclear when the tooltip is taken, it's unclear if this 4 science/7unity output is for 2 knights, or maybe 3, or what modifiers are in place to produce this expected output. I get what that the job gets better over time, but I don't know what it starts as, or what each knight is doing at the end in your example. Technically I don't even know if I can build more of them elsewhere. I also don't know if Squires ever get better.

Similarly, knight policies. You show three, but show one whose primary use seems to be war... when talking about how the econ is going to be pretty rough early on, and thus not something you want to need because that would be a vulnerability state. And of the benefits, the primary is defensive war, ie when attacked at the most vulnerable. Are these other policies any good for peacetime? Do they offer anything to build a strategy around?

How about origin restrictions? Usually when you raise origins, you're clear on who can, or cannot, take the origin. Is this open to gestalts? Don't know- you didn't show the origin requirements. Megacorps? Pacifists? This is basic origin info you usually share, but don't include here, which includes the holding situation.

Or even the central premise of the origin- the quest. Okay, the quest has a modifier- but what actually progresses the quest? Does it go up faster the more alloys I print, or should I realistically have 0 alloy product and just do bilateral trades until that questing phase modifier goes away? You say there are 'opportunities' to accelerate it- but what? Is it a steeper econ modifier? Specific actions I can take? Win a war, purge pops, excavation site? Techs, traditions, edicts, planetary decisions? Is this something I can build for?

I think that's really the crux of it- as it is, there's no real 'build' for this origin as given, because in order to avoid spoilers, you've stripped out any information for why someone would want to do it, or how to go about it. You've (rightly) advertised that it's a difficult start, in exchange for... what, exactly?

As given- a defensive war policy, a major military malus that more than offsets the offensive war bonus, and an end-game habitat that's supposedly only a bit min-maxed, but really looks terribly optimized. And no build expectation, so no expected gameplay experience. Don't tell us how or when things change- that can be the mystery- but show how a weakness eventually becomes a strength, to leave to use to figure out what that might be worth.


Like, I know there's things we don't know. The big reveal, the toxic god, whatever. But if you wanted to give something to aim for, showing just a few 'early game' versus 'late game' comparisons of individual things- the blockers that go from banes to boons, an early game versus late game knight'- would be much better.
 
Last edited:
  • 5
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
This feel very weird. Interesting, but weird.

It all seems very… specific? I'm not sure if it's inspired by something, but there's a very predetermined theme to all of this that is somewhat unusual for origins. It's got unique jobs and everything, but it just makes me wonder why a civilization that had their homeworld devastated by a toxic colossus must necessarily be a knightly order, and why we can't play as a knightly order otherwise.

I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, but it gives the distinct impression of two ideas mashed together. As though someone did some work on a knight origin, it didn't go anywhere, then toxoid rolls round and there's a sudden need for another origin.

Hence why some artwork looks like this:

Capture.PNG


And not like this:

Capture2222.PNG
 
  • 15
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
In addition to city building, the combination of pops growing on the habitat and 2 guaranteed worlds will more than make up for that.
Add -10% alloys from jobs and -20% monthly energy and your start should be slow enough.
Even if you get +2 pop growth compared to a regular origin, it'll take you >12.5 years just to catch up on the 3 missing pops.

From what (little) I'm seeing, there's nothing in this origin that would warrant taking away 1 or 2 of your guaranteed habitables. (Not that there's anything in the Slingshot origin that does, either...)
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions: