Stellaris Dev Diary #289 - Hide and Seek

[Letharion]

Do weapon platforms count as ships for cloaking purposes? It would be great if you could surround a starbase with cloaked platforms, which wouldn’t be recognized by intruding fleets until it’s too late. These platforms shouldn’t add to the stations apparent fleet power as long as they are cloaked. Would also stop Alphastrikes on them.

 

[Thiend]

I find it extremely disappointing that this new game mechanic is yet another example of the psionic ascension Empires getting the most powerful, effective application of a new mechanic, and everyone else just has to deal with that.
Where are the special tech paths for Genetic, Cybernetic and Synthetic ascension?
Why must psionics always get the most powerful of everything?

The special path for every other ascension is having pop assembly at all. This is bringing psionics to an actually comparable level, it has drastically fewer pops but they're a bit better and it has other unique features.

Psionics usually gets the most flavorful and mathematically worst of everything. The only major advantage I can think of that it has is... Espionage, which is awful. This update will finally address the power imbalance from not having pop assembly by giving something in exchange other than number improvements on ship components that can be overwhelmed by a few repeatables gained earlier by every other ascension having pop assembly.

 

[DarkSafire]

For the tier 1 cloaking device, why not.

Spoiler: Basic Cloaking Device

# Basic Cloaking Device
utility_component_template = {
    key = "CORVETTE_CLOAKING_1"
    size = aux
    icon = "GFX_ship_part_cloak_1"
    icon_frame = 1
    power = @power_S2
    resources = {
        category = ship_components
        cost = {
            alloys = @cloak_s_t1_cost_alloys
            exotic_gases = @cloak_s_t1_cost_strategic_resources
        }
        upkeep = {
            energy = @cloak_s_t1_upkeep_energy
            alloys = @cloak_s_t1_upkeep_alloys
        }
    }

    modifier = {
        ship_cloaking_strength_add = @very_low_strength
    }

    triggered_ship_modifier = {
        potential = {
            is_cloaked = yes
        }
        modifier = {
            ship_shield_reduction = 1
        }
    }
    custom_tooltip = "CLOAKING_1_TOOLTIP"

    ship_limit = 1

    size_restriction = { corvette frigate crisis_corvette offspring_corvette }
    blocked_by = {
        CORVETTE_CLOAKING_2
        CORVETTE_CLOAKING_3
        CORVETTE_CLOAKING_DARK_MATTER
        CORVETTE_CLOAKING_PSI
    }
    prerequisites = { "tech_cloaking_1" }
    component_set = "CLOAKING_1"
    upgrades_to = "CORVETTE_CLOAKING_2"
    ai_tags = {
        gunship_stealth
        explosive_stealth
        carrier_stealth
        screen_stealth
        artillery_stealth
        brawler_stealth
        energy_torpedoes_stealth
    }

    ai_weight = {
        weight = @basic_cloaking_weight
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            no_resource_for_component = { RESOURCE = exotic_gases }
        }
        inline_script = ship_components/weights/roles_cloaking_devices
    }
}

How moddable these components are? Can we make our own cloaking components (so ships can cloak as long as any component or, for example, global modifier from tech gives ship_cloaking_strength_add) or game is hardcoded to look for default ones?

 

[FleetMaster]

I think now would be a great time to buff the infamously-bad Enigmatic Engineering ascension perk with some cloaking-related content.

Clears throat

I just put this on Reddit (from watching today's First Contact video):

• Criminal Syndicates gives +1 Cloaking Strength.
• Completing Subterfuge Tradition Tree now gives +1 Cloaking Strength, and Encryption, Decryption, Cloaking Tech and Detection Tech now has a x5 chance of appearing in Tech Tree.
• Enigmatic Engineering AP gives +2 Cloaking and +2 Encryption.
• There's a Dark Matter Resonance Chamber which is one of the building options for Starbases, which gives you +1 Detection for every 3 Detection Arrays, so that's an maximum of +8 Detection for a starbase if you have access to Dark Matter.

 

[Mcgan]

Do weapon platforms count as ships for cloaking purposes? It would be great if you could surround a starbase with cloaked platforms, which wouldn’t be recognized by intruding fleets until it’s too late. These platforms shouldn’t add to the stations apparent fleet power as long as they are cloaked. Would also stop Alphastrikes on them.

They said in their stream that they tried it, but it would cause the enemy fleet to attack the starbase first, ignoring the defense platforms. If the fleet is strong enough to defeat the starbase in one attack, the starbase (and the intact defense platforms) switch sides, before the defense platforms can deal any damage. Which is way too powerful for the attacker.

How moddable these components are? Can we make our own cloaking components (so ships can cloak as long as any component or, for example, global modifier from tech gives ship_cloaking_strength_add) or game is hardcoded to look for default ones?

Judging by that script, it seems entirely moddable. There's everything in there.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

I'm guessing army transports can't be cloaked?

I would have thought they would have your best cloaking tech already equipped in a Utility slot, gives them the opportunity to get to a planet without the fleets and starbases knocking them out immediately, or at least allows them to proceed with the invasion while the fleets shoot at them in order to get as many through the defenses as possible instead of just flying in a circle as they die.

I'm looking forward to having a similar situation to the first mission to the OG Destiny 2 Main Campaign.

 

[Yurichenko]

I just realized something that worries me. Apparently all the detection methods are limited to the sensors in the stations or to the contribution to the detection of the sentient ships. If this is so, does it mean that once my fleets move away from my system and are out of the detection range of the sensors, I will have no way of "unveiling" an enemy fleet that chooses to use cloak. Do I really have to rely on a civilian ship to spot enemy fleets trying to escape or slip past my fleet into enemy territory?

 

[klingonadmiral]

Bombarding uncloaks you

You park your cloaked raiding fleets deep behind enemy lines in empty systems next to their core worlds. You declare war, and your standard warfleets lure the enemy defenders away. Decloak, take the starbase, get pops.

 

[RhysTheT00n]

There is no upper limit on how many ships you can cloak, however, do remember the speed malus, you can be sneaky or fast. Both is not as easy.


If you are detected and they have closed borders to you then you will be kicked out. If you declare war on the enemy while you are undetected you get to keep your fleet there.

That's cool, but it is unfortunate for me that fleets and ships have no detection themselves. I was kinda looking forward to a Mass Effect 2 intro style encounter where I catch an enemy ship trying to be sneaky in empty space (not even my borders)

 

[Yurichenko]

I just realized something that worries me. Apparently all the detection methods are limited to the sensors in the stations or to the contribution to the detection of the sentient ships. If this is so, does it mean that once my fleets move away from my system and are out of the detection range of the sensors, I will have no way of "unveiling" an enemy fleet that chooses to use cloak. Do I really have to rely on a civilian ship to spot enemy fleets trying to escape or slip past my fleet into enemy territory?

Perhaps a high level of infiltration in a specific empire could "override" the concealment of their fleets partially or totally. Would it add additional detection value with respect to that specific empire? I think it would give spy networks some value finally, and after all, if my agents are infiltrating your navy, it's understandable that they'll get information on all of your fleets, even the ones that are using cloak.

 

[MadCow94]

I just realized something that worries me. Apparently all the detection methods are limited to the sensors in the stations or to the contribution to the detection of the sentient ships. If this is so, does it mean that once my fleets move away from my system and are out of the detection range of the sensors, I will have no way of "unveiling" an enemy fleet that chooses to use cloak. Do I really have to rely on a civilian ship to spot enemy fleets trying to escape or slip past my fleet into enemy territory?

This is the part that makes me sad. I feel like I'd rather not have cloaking on ships versus having it and not having a counter to it on fleets.

 

[Masked Ermine]

I can only reiterate that I find cloaking to be absolutely no fun...and this dev diary only confirms it. It really is going to be you have to 'rush sensors' and 'rush this otherwise useless ascension path' just so you won't get obliterated by invisible fleets....dicking around in your territory unchallenged.

The worst bit will be cloak empires early games stealing systems because their civilian ships can get passed your closed borders....the border gore's going to be nonsense.

 

[Starfire Breeze]

Definitely interested to see how this works out. Thanks for continuing to iterate on content for the game.

One question - is there a global enable/disable for cloaking all-up at galaxy creation that lets one choose the disposition of whether it is possible to be used for a given game? I'm curious to try cloaking out, though sometimes there have been rather unique game playthroughs I've seen when one or more empires ended up locked away in some sector of the galaxy, behind a Fallen Empire or Marauders, until someone lets them out. But if one is likely to just be able to sneak through those regions (from a fairly early point in the game), that won't happen anymore. Note that that isn't about an in-game galcom resolution or subject policy to forbid cloaking, but more akin to the L-Cluster/Xeno Compatibility/etc. controls at game setup.

 

[Primarch Victus]

I hope with this you push the AI to do like players and have mono-fleets , not all fleets of the same size , but all the same size in one fleet.
As this meccanic incentivate it.

WTF anyone would want mono-hull fleets when we can have different ships in your fleet offering different advantages?

 

[Yurichenko]

I can only reiterate that I find cloaking to be absolutely no fun...and this dev diary only confirms it. It really is going to be you have to 'rush sensors' and 'rush this otherwise useless ascension path' just so you won't get obliterated by invisible fleets....dicking around in your territory unchallenged.

The worst bit will be cloak empires early games stealing systems because their civilian ships can get passed your closed borders....the border gore's going to be nonsense.

I don't think they can steal systems. It's not a security but I think of the civilian ships, only the science ships can use the cloak

 

[Masked Ermine]

Definitely interested to see how this works out. Thanks for continuing to iterate on content for the game.

One question - is there a global enable/disable for cloaking all-up at galaxy creation that lets one choose the disposition of whether it is possible to be used for a given game? I'm curious to try cloaking out, though sometimes there have been rather unique game playthroughs I've seen when one or more empires ended up locked away in some sector of the galaxy, behind a Fallen Empire or Marauders, until someone lets them out. But if one is likely to just be able to sneak through those regions (from a fairly early point in the game), that won't happen anymore. Note that that isn't about an in-game galcom resolution or subject policy to forbid cloaking, but more akin to the L-Cluster/Xeno Compatibility/etc. controls at game setup.

I would prefer this as I hate the very idea of having to even deal with cloaked ship stupidity...but wouldn't mind utilizing portions of the DLC...I just don't want the AI being dipshits with cloaking tech....as some people in this thread have already basically suggested this will be...

Just like with epsionage (which thankfully got nerfed into the ground) I don't want to deal with random stuff just happening....because someone somewhere decided to push the 'blow it up now button'.

 

[Masked Ermine]

I don't think they can steal systems. It's not a security but I think of the civilian ships, only the science ships can use the cloak

I can totally see a tactic being rushing construction ships behind uncontacted empire's borders, sit in unclaimed systems and then move your cloaked science ships in to steal deep unclaimed systems...

 

[Silesian Burd]

• Military vessels should be capable of cloaking, with limitations. Cloaking should be balanced such that it is better to cloak frigates or cruisers than battleships.

Well there we go, folks. Frigates will continue to be useless, because Cruisers exist.

 

[Silesian Burd]

Just like with epsionage (which thankfully got nerfed into the ground) I don't want to deal with random stuff just happening....because someone somewhere decided to push the 'blow it up now button'.

You are the only person who likes that Espionage is bad.

 

[Thiend]

Well there we go, folks. Frigates will continue to be useless, because Cruisers exist.

Hey now, they're not always useless because Cruisers exist.



Sometimes they're useless because Corvettes exist.