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Stellaris Dev Diary #293 - Introducing Coop

Hello everyone!

One of the major Custodian features planned for the 3.8 ‘Gemini’ update is the addition of two cooperative gameplay modes. Up to five players will be able to control the same empire and work together to play the game as a team.

Two Modes of Play​

Surveys suggested that there are two distinctly different reasons people want to play together.

  • I want to play a PvE game of Stellaris with my friends, either to teach them how to play the game or to have a more relaxed game where we can share the duties of empire management.

Stellaris is a complex game, and learning to play can be difficult without a guiding hand. While some people learn well by watching informative videos created by the community, others might do better playing alongside a friend.

  • I want to play a multiplayer PvP game of Stellaris where teams of players go up against each other.

The cognitive load when playing competitive multiplayer can be at times overwhelming, especially during wars. Being able to split duties with other players on the same team could provide an enjoyable experience.

We’ve tried to support both goals through two different modes of play, with slightly different game rules.

Cooperative PvE​

A new main menu entry exists for starting a Cooperative PvE game where all human players control the same empire.

Main Menu Bar now includes Cooperative mode

This will bring them to the Game Browser screen, where one of them can choose to Host a New Game, just like the regular Multiplayer flow.

The hosting player will go directly to Empire Selection, where they can create a new empire or select one they’ve already created as normal, select the Galaxy Settings for the game, and then begin the session.

Unlike regular Multiplayer, the Cooperative PvE flow bypasses the Game Lobby, and the coop players will not need to select an empire. These players hotjoin directly into the hosting player’s empire once the game has begun.

For most purposes, Cooperative PvE is treated the same way as single player PvE is.

Competitive PvP​

The flow for creating a competitive multiplayer coop game is similar to the normal multiplayer flow. One player will host the server, ticking the “Allow Coop” checkbox.

Host Server window with Allow Coop toggle

Other players can join the Game Lobby and open their empires up for additional players.

Game Lobby with slots open for Coop

pdx_eladrin has opened his empire up for cooperative play.

Example of someone joining a coop empire

After Loner has joined the empire.

Empires that have been opened for cooperative play add an “inspect” icon to the portrait so prospective players can see the details on the empire before deciding to join.

Inspecting the Roccan Resistance

Inspect a coop empire.

For more competitive players, the primary player of the empire will be able to lock their empire, which will add a password requirement to joining or inspection.

New Coop Features​

It’s often useful to know what your teammates are up to. To make it a little easier to understand what’s going on, we’ve added Presence Markers to the UI to show which tabs your teammates are currently using.

Presence Markers and the Goto buttons

pdx_eladrin is currently taking care of our research issues, so Loner can worry about something else.

We're currently exploring the addition of Goto buttons in the top right corner that will allow you to bring your camera to your teammate’s location, but this isn't fully functional yet. (And is unlikely to be during the Open Beta.)

Events will be shown to all members of a coop team, and any of the players can select a response. The window will remain in place with the selected option marked with the icon of the player that made a choice.

Event with an already selected response

Only one option for this one, but it’s nice to know it’s already been selected.

What’s Next?​

Next week we’ll be talking about the 3.8 ‘Gemini’ Open Beta.

As the Coop game modes touch a lot of moving parts, we’d like to gain feedback on your thoughts of how it plays as well as find where desyncs and other bugs crop up before the actual release.
 
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Just because some of us, like you and I, don't have any use for this feature, doesn't mean that it's useless or bad. This is a Custodian update, so nothing was lost from the DLC because that's the Crisis team.
Once again, you are making the mistake of assuming that you are the most important player for the devs to appease, and you emphatically are not. Just like all the clowns who develop space combat mods, and then constantly demand and complain that graphical bugs that irritate them aren't fixed immediately by the devs.
Exactly. It came from the Custodians. Which means any of a dozen other systems that have needed touched on, or brought up to par could have received that attention instead. How about the Khan that hasn't worked right for well over a year. Or the Crises, which is once again getting stomped by the AI due to power creep. Or just about anything with FE that haven't been touched in years. Maybe something more interesting like the EHOF so we could actually get exploration beyond the early game? Should I continue? Who is this really supposed to serve? You seem to think that I am only complaining because this doesn't "serve me" when instead you are blindly praising. And I don't understand why.
 
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stupid. You waste time on features only small % of people will use. Maybe fix the (*&&$ bugs first?!
Paradox is a joke.
Literally every time you touch code, you create bugs. They are fixing bugs, but it will never be bug free. Just because some of us may never us this feature doesn't mean it's not worth making. To me, graphical bugs are never worth fixing. They are just graphical, they don't affect gameplay. Fixing them is a waste of time, when they fixing gameplay related bugs.
But I don't get mad when they do fix graphical bugs, because I realize that I am not the center of the dev's universe, and not everyone holds my opinions.
 
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This has been my single most-requested feature for literal years, ever since the hacky way to do this got removed.

(It used to be possible to achieve this via connecting as an observer, then typing 'play 0' into the console, but they took it out for some reason).

I only play Stellaris with a friend, have over two thousand hours of playtime, and this will let us play a lot more playstyles than we normally do, since we're no longer going to have to be able to peacefully interact with one another.

Plus it'll make it more fun to play games where there might need to be a lot of micro, so early war or the like will be more interesting for us.
 
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Good stuff.

It’s good to see the game become more accessible.

I don’t think I’ll ever use this feature myself, but I’m happy that it exists. It’s always good for new people to be playing the game and for there to be new ways to play.
 
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Literally every time you touch code, you create bugs.
Sure. Except they keep creating the same bugs, and making the same mistakes. How many times have they 'fixed' the fleets not attacking bug? How many times are they going to overlook planet killers not affecting crises worlds? Why did Eladrin joke about making so many changes that they sometimes undo fixes? As though that is something they should be joking about?
 
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Let me stop you right there. Stellaris *isn't* very complex. It *appears* complex, but is incredibly shallow when you boil it down.
This is fundamentally wrong. This is so wrong i can hardly describe in words how wrong this is.

Sure you can boil every single mechanic in the game down to a rather simple subsystem. The problem isn't the complexity of these tiny subsystems, but that there is a lot of them and there are a lot of different UIs to navigate.

When you start out in Stellaris, you have no idea what is important, how much you need of things, what all your options are and even what mechanics are still coming as the game progresses.
This game is incredibly overwhelming to anyone who has no notable 4x or other GSG experience. You can't judge this from your or my standpoint. I have played 4x games since i was like 12 or something. It's relatively easy for me to get into a new one. This isn't the case for everyone. Many people have played much less (grand) strategy or any video games at all and they will have immense trouble navigating a game as big as stellaris.

This isn't like most good indie games that have a really well refined core game loop that is easy to learn and you get to master more and more details of it as you progress. The very entry to GSGs is already difficult to someone with no similar experience. The sheer vastness of the sandbox options is losing people. There are so many things you can do at any point that it is very difficult to figure out what to do when. When do you activate/deactivate edicts? Should you revisit your policies regularly? How important is espionage? Should i focus stockpiling for crises or run a hyper-efficient null-sum economy? How much of a military should i prepare? How do i even make my military larger?
All of those are mostly extremely simple questions and you could 100% just right now answer all of them immediately. But a beginner can't. They have no frame of reference. And those are just some of the things that will come up.

Having a coop partner who can just answer all of these right away when they come up is incredibly valuable to teach the game and spark interest in the aspects of it that the newbie might have been most drawn to when deciding to buy it - without getting overwhelmed with everything else.

EDIT: the reason why all the individual systems are rather simple is by design. There are already so many of them to learn that having new players invest a lot of time to understand each is not desirable at all. The whole idea is that every system is rather self-explainatory to make it accessible at all and leave you with the GRAND strategy and not micromanaging tiny aspects of your empire.
 
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Why did Eladrin joke about making so many changes that they sometimes undo fixes? As though that is something they should be joking about?
That’s just how it is.

You could have the most efficient and communicative team in the world and this is still going to happen accidentally.

It’s a shame when that stuff slips into release, but that happens sometimes.
 
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Stellaris *isn't* very complex
Absolutely agree. At the beginning (as in any new game) it takes time to understand the basic mechanics. And it's not long. The remaining "difficulties" of the game are micromanagement, incomprehensible interface and the like.
I definitely like the game and I enjoy it (except for the moments that I often talk about on the forum), but it is clearly far from GREAT (as some people write) strategy ... *chuckle* ... it is clearly far away.
 
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The idea is quite nice, but I really Wonder how all of this is supposed to work without massives bugs and crashs,bas Stellaris isn't the most stable game in existence.

Nothing against this, but I would personnaly prefered to have a more stable and polished before adding this kind of features.

Bugs are not something that will ever be 'solved' in modern gaming. The Devs obviously care about reducing bugs, but have to produce new content to earn a paycheck - new content creates bugs, and time spend fixing bugs costs money and time.

Also worth mentioning, but throwing MORE people at bug fixing doesn't actually make the process go faster. There's simply a limit to how many people you can set on a given task before you get diminishing returns.
 
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Sure. Except they keep creating the same bugs, and making the same mistakes. How many times have they 'fixed' the fleets not attacking bug? How many times are they going to overlook planet killers not affecting crises worlds? Why did Eladrin joke about making so many changes that they sometimes undo fixes? As though that is something they should be joking about?

It can be the same bug, but created a different way through a different mechanism. Coding bugs are basically just a computer version of genetic mutations. You can get the same end effect from a mutation, sometimes through several different possible mutations (In the case of cancer, several thousand mutations all with the same end result). It literally isn't rocket science.
They joke about it because they enjoy their job. If you don't joke about your job, you don't really enjoy it. You joke because you love, but it frustrates you at times, and joking relieves the tension and stress. Plus the B.S becomes funny over time. I joke about the time a fish put my hand in a sling for six months, I joke about the time a fish nearly concussed me in below freezing water, I joke about the time I fell in a hole in a stream while wearing waders and nearly drowned.
Simply put, Eladrin enjoys the work they do, even when it comes with bs like a bug that keeps popping up in different iterations.

I could ask how many times you are going to ignore the reality of the situation, or try your hand at bugfixing before you understand the complexity that bug squashing is. Had two code software engineers for roommates in college, literally first thing they learned in their major, "Every time you touch the code, you will make a bug". That's a well known addage in any field involving code, for a reason.
 
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The problem isn't the complexity of these tiny subsystems, but that there is a lot of them and there are a lot of different UIs to navigate.

So the game isn't complex, it just has a terribly designed UI. Which it does. The problem is that once you learn the rules of thumb, how to build planets correctly and what ratio to keep them in, it negates basically all of that. You don't even need to actually go look at most of those menus. The video that Paradox sponsored from Ep30 today actually shows you pretty much all of that.


This game is incredibly overwhelming to anyone who has no notable 4x or other GSG experience.

And none of that is a testament to how much depth Stellaris has. It just shows that the game desperately needs a tutorial. That basic things like shift being your best friend should be mentioned. And it's not.

The sheer vastness of the sandbox options is losing people.

I disagree. It isn't that the options are vast. It's that most people don't know they exist. Look at the common arguments over Ethics and how, especially new players, don't understand them because Stellaris uses them in non-standard ways. It's hard to understand a game that doesn't explain itself. And no, a button in the pause menu that takes you to the wiki isn't good enough. Every major section should have a link to the wiki page it's associated with. The nested tooltips they teased a week ago will help with some of this, but not nearly enough imo.


Having a coop partner who can just answer all of these right away when they come up is incredibly valuable to teach the game and spark interest in the aspects of it that the newbie might have been most drawn to when deciding to buy it - without getting overwhelmed with everything else.

Ok, let's say you are right. This is totally top tier awesome super amazeballs. For how many people? How much time was devoted to this that could have/should have been devoted to just a decent tutorial instead? I have zero problem with asserting that most players don't play the game multiplayer, much less have a decent enough friendpool to help them through it. I am confused how this was prioritized/greenlit.

EDIT: the reason why all the individual systems are rather simple is by design. There are already so many of them to learn that having new players invest a lot of time to understand each is not desirable at all. The whole idea is that every system is rather self-explainatory to make it accessible at all and leave you with the GRAND strategy and not micromanaging tiny aspects of your empire.
You just defeated your own argument. If the game was supposed to be 'simple by design' to keep it accessible, then rework after rework where they deliberately made things ever more unintuitive means they failed in that goal.

And no, I think it was made simple, and largely kept simple, because at it's heart Stellaris is a storytelling simulator. I can go dig up quotes from Wiz on the matter if you like. Those early designs were very much with RP front and center, using 'grand strategy' as the building blocks.
 
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Fallen Empire: Submit to our rule like the vermin you are!!!!

Player: You may have huge fleets, dark matter hardware and fancy home worlds. But I have something you will never have.

Fallen Empire: Such as?

Player: Friends. Like eggCatcher912 - while you have been threatening me, my good friend eggCatcher912 has been increasing alloy production for our proposed mighty fleets to crush you, haven't you eggCatcher912? ........eggCatcher912???

eggCatcher912: Hey dude! Check out the RING WORLD I've built with all those alloys!!!!

Player: Jesus Christ eggCatcher912!! What about the fleets??!?!

Fallen Empire: HAHAHA! We crush you now. We take your Ring World and then your empire! We will laugh at your rodent-like squeals for mercy! HAHAAHA!

Player: YOU HAD ONE JOB eggCatcher912!! ONE!!!!
 
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IMO it's true that only a small population of players would gain from this feature, but it's a population that's been asking for it basically since the game launched. I feel like after seven whole years of content, its absolutely fair to dedicate at least some time to finally adding this; Even if only 5% of players will love it, they definitely spent less than 5% of all Stellaris development time on adding it. Niche parts of the community shouldn't be prioritized over the game as a whole, but that doesn't mean they have to completely ignore them forever or else they're betraying the rest of their playerbase.
 
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Bugs are not something that will ever be 'solved' in modern gaming. The Devs obviously care about reducing bugs, but have to produce new content to earn a paycheck - new content creates bugs, and time spend fixing bugs costs money and time.

Also worth mentioning, but throwing MORE people at bug fixing doesn't actually make the process go faster. There's simply a limit to how many people you can set on a given task before you get diminishing returns.

Didn't say otherwise, just that I think that adding a seemingly convoluted system of cooperative multiplayer system to the game, as he isn't very stable or consistent with performances, dosen't appears as the best of ideas.

I hope I'm wrong, but yeah, this choice of further developement is kinda strange. We will see, I guess.
 
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