Stellaris Dev Diary #364 - Sights Unseen

[Deterock]

Great dev diary! It made me think that some origins could be scenarios instead (like Payback, Feud or even Toxic God) with some extra content. I'm very excited about politics and factions rework as well.

Also, if playable nomads will be a case, then they would also fit perfectly for a scenario (f.e. you're playing with the fleet that survived Doomsday origin and now you have to find the planet to establish colony, fighting pirates to clear your way or something like that). Possibilities are endless and I can't wait to see what you are preparing for the next year!

 

[MordridBlack]

A few added things of note from my own perspective that should get looked at in some fashion:

- Influence still somehow seems so underpowered and overpowered at the same time. It is the core of one of the primary things in the game [expanding into new systems]. Early game it feels like a wet noddle where it doesn't really do enough, and late game you often somehow end up with it overflowing [for the most point] to a wild degree.

- Tradition Slots & Ascension Perk Slots are a problem in their own right, I feel like we keep getting more Traditions and Perks but the amount we can have of each hasn't changed since these systems were added. I'm not expecting something like modded levels of slots, but I feel it would be nice to have more room. Or, if the limit is 8, we need to seriously consider combining Traditions and Perks together if they match up well. Ex: Adaptability and Expansion being combined into one new Tradition would make sense [obviously some tweaks to Adaptability would need to happen so it can benefit Machine Intelligence]; and Xeno-Compatibility could be merged into Engineered Evolution [not that many people play with that on in the first place], another option would be Mastery of Nature and World Shaper being combined.

- Civics also could fall into the same line as Traditions and Ascension Perks where there are some that just don't get used for one reason or another so combining them with other Civics might be smart.

 

[The Muppet]

I am new to the game and wanted to buy some more dlc after testing some content but I notice the latest expansions have 0% discount and as a bundle by themselves they are now more expensive (42€) than they were before the sale started (39.99€). Is that a mistake? I’m very confused at the moment

 

[Nyrael]

Please don't pair biological ships with biological ascension. I fully agree that the fantasy of true bioships isn't fully realized. But as a person who actually plays biological still, you have to ask what has biological been to us thus far? For me it's about enhancing my population through genetics to be on par (even though they aren't) with Synthetic, and Psionically ascended species. And if I can still do that, and you also wanna add some biological ship stuff great I just.

This. Cybernetic used to be the first step to Synthetic Ascension, but they were later decoupled because peopoel wanted to play Cyborgs but it felt like inferior as gameplay-wise it was first step toward a different ascension.

Currently Biological should be about Genetically perfecting your species, and we should get a new one that focuses on complete overhaul of your species and turn them into what some could call horrific monsters, even give us Biological Ships. Could be connected to Leviathans and Space Faunas as you use their DNA to "improve" your species.

And when we are on the topic of adding new Ascensions, what about Biological Ascension for individualist robots, where they become fully biological or cybernetic? I can imagine some robots, especially spiritualist, wanting to leave their mechanical husks behind and become like their ancient creators.

 

[Imp0815]

Eladrin ordered me to keep my espionage plans fully classified. Otherwise I would have spilled all the beans in the above DD

But I kept a close watch on community suggestions for years now!

I see obvious things like making spies fully-fledged leader classes and having some impact on larger empires to incite rebellions and such.
But I'm worried if all scheming and spying can just be mitigated by wiping the spying empire off the face of the galaxy with my 500k fleetstack?

 

[HMS Enterprize]

Some things sound exciting and reflect what large parts of the discourse are saying, so this is a net positive.
But for me personally, many of the things you listed:

"When the Gamma Aliens attacked the UNE colony of Europa VII", "“internal politics” expansion", "Espionage", "Pirates and Crime", and "asymmetric starts" will all fall flat if these events can just be solved by whacking them with your big doomstack.
How will you depict asymmetry when one side is always heavily favored if they just bring double the points to a fight?
I can’t imagine a scenario where internal conflict results in a satisfying civil war that can either be instantly crushed by a 100k doomstack in the end or is instantly lost when I lose two-thirds of my fleet/planets in one swoop.

Doomstacking will ultimately sabotage any of these ideas in the end, and they will all come out as hot air—at least that’s what I expect.

On the part I think you missed: the fundamental problem with fleet power snowballing and doomstacking.

I'm sorry to mention this again, and you already stated that this will only be addressed maybe in one year or more, but I think it's just too big of a problem for the game right now to be postponed. Look at GGG—they just dropped everything 6 months ago to fully complete the endgame for the PoE2 Early Access release. So, there are methods to quickly react to changing tides.

P.S. Just to make it more clear, all these topics sound great, and I would want them in the game. But all of them are additional smoke screens for me that get dispersed as soon as I look into the fundamental mechanics that will counter all these scenarios/events/mechanics.

Precisely this. Combat - both space & ground needs a massive overhaul.

 

[Deterock]

Oh yeah, btw, last week you said fleets won't have any major changes but there will be some tweaks. Can you share any of them?

 

[ashbery76]

There must be a Biological Ship Fallen Empire, for reasons.

 

[V-Metamorph]

I think you might have missed adressing mid to late game planet engagement ( that doesn't involve cosmogenesis and/or Écus that are usually locked to one resource), if you take base game without DLC, there is no such thing as proper late game planet, you will usually try to steal FE worlds.

 

[Deterock]

There must be a Biological Ship Fallen Empire, for reasons.

Collectors?! xD

 

[Vlad123]

Pirates and crime! Pirates and crime! Please i remember a Star game where i can play at pirates and make my pirate empire! Was so funnier!

 

[Juboboman]

I would really like to see surveying and exploration get an extension (not overhaul). I think many players would argue exploration and finding anomalies/digsites etc is the funnest part of the game. And yet by mid game its over and everyone has filled in their territories. I don't know the technical problems that would come but I would like to see the ability to resurvey systems and find new anomalies and even digsites in neutral space or other players space (cloaking combined with the new tradition that lets you dig outside of your own space makes it seem possible).

Just random ideas maybe have a system able to be surveyed up to say 5 times. After the first survey you get all the information and abilities to build outposts etc that you do now after a survey so the game doesn't slow down for people. But then you are able to go back 4 more times over the course of the game to survey at your leisure and find more anomalies or digsites. Maybe it could be part of a DLC story pack focused on adding tons of new anomalies/sites so that they don't get stale. I'm sure there is a more elegant solution but however it is done I would like the exploration and wonder phase of Stellaris never truly end, or at the least continue well into the late game.

 

[Foxosaur]

Speaking of different game modes.

There use to be a game called Dark Colony(and an expansion pack), a space marine vs alien type of RTS. It had a campaign mode for either side and as you progressed you unlocked the more advanced technology, buildings and units.

It was no Starcraft, but it was good and I found the sounds and visuals maybe more satisfying in some respects(Reaper units were just awesome) but more than anything what kept drawing me back was its skirmish mode(like Tiberiun Sun) where you could setup up to 7 AI players with / against you. As a teenager, I started off with 1v1v1v1v1v1v1 etc but as I got confident it was 2v2v2v2 and slowly I upped it to 3v5, 2v6 and even 1v7.

The only way to survive those kinds of odds would at the very least be to turtle up on chokepoints and unlike Stellaris, units collided and took up space, so a chokepoint worked and slowed down the neck of the funnel. A key difference was though that resources ran out and you ad a puny 3 resource per tick or something.

That's where I think Stellaris could head, map modes where placements of empires are guaranteed - the hub and spoke type one(starburst?) is a good candidate. If you could extend that so you can setup end game crisis spawn locations too, that would be awesome too.

I say that all because Stellaris, for me, is still very playable as an RTS and definitely compared to other 4Xs is relatively simple unless you try to engage every panel and system that exists and this game has never really forced you too - in my opinion.

 

[Dayknight]

From my experience from mods and other games, Nomad gameplay without proper gameplay goal is really, really boring.
Sure, moving planet fleet go brrr, but it goes flat in five minutes.
That being said, something like scenerio really can be helpful in this situation. nomads being just nomads are boring, but nomads being explorer to find their homeworld is suddenly interesting.

 

[Dark Insanities]

I have wanted Nomads for so many years. As far as the 'new things' on your list, this is right at the top.

Just let me know how many human sacrifices are needed, I'll arrange it.

 

[BrokenSky]

So What Did I Miss?​

This was a bit of a stream of consciousness dev diary, so I’m sure I’ve only scratched the surface of possibilities.

What do you think I missed? Are any of these especially attractive or repellent? Where do you want us to go?

Arguably this should come under internal politics, but Religions. Like specific space religions who arn't all vaguely spiritual space hippies (some of whom are death cults).

 

[Mista-Howie]

the factions and politics section sounds almost exactly like what i would want from a rework to the faction system. more (and larger) variations of factions for an ethic that depend on civics, temporary factions depending on major events like border changes. especially the brief mention of culture, 'exporting' factions, and calling espionage a related system makes me really excited too

cant wait for the psionic changes, as I adore psionics and space magic in all their forms (though I know you said you delight in turning down the team's space magic suggestions lol)

nomads could be a ton of fun too, really curious to see how you manage it ^^

 

[EddieDean]

Personally I'm not too interested in scenarios or nomads, but I can see how nomads might appeal to some players.

Trade and market revamp would likely pair well with piracy revamp. I'd definitely be interested in a deeper market simulation which made economic relationships with neighbours more interesting - perhaps a much lighter version of what's been announced in Tinto Talks for not-EU5, where each nation has a capital market but outlying colonies may more commonly trade with nearer and more competitive markets if it's more feasible for them (and trade agreements exist). It'd be cool if I could get rich or gain diplomatic weight by exploiting the resources my neighbours are short of.

I've never been a great fan of unity and influence, both of which are extremely abscract, though I appreciate their use as balance tools. Something less abstract - a value that imposes modifiers rather than a pool you can spend from - would be preferable.

I'd buy a Plantoids 2, so long as custodians keep giving love to Plantoids 1.

 

[Nudeldifudel]

This all sounds well and good. But having a Internal politics or factions rework boiled down to just some more variety and flavor for factions would be very disappointed. I in my opinion truly think Stellaris needs something really substantial here

Like pop political power and ethics actually mattering. And different government types playing differently beyond modifiers. Like what I want is so much more events for things happening inside my empire. How do all my pops feel now that they are minority on their home planet. How do they feel about being genetically altered. How do the pops on my newly conquered planet feel.

Like a bunch of pops of opposite ethics of my own on the same planet should matter. The fact that my rival conquered a planet of mine when I'm militarist should matter for my pops. Etc.

And tie into more into sectors and leaders. Like leaders can be disloyal. Sectors can break off. Rebellions is a challenge for wide empires instead of an artificial limit.

Something like that is at least what I feel Stellaris really need. Because right now, my pops in my egilaterian empire feel has as much agency and opinion as a pop in a hive mind empire it feels like.

Again, the rest look great though, and I know this would be hard and a lot of work to implement, I just feel internal stuff should be more beefier then some changes to factions.

Edit: Otherwise, yeah war and how you interact with other people and joining and leaving wars, and peacedeals are definitely high up on my list. Then nomads and scenarios could be cool, but it's probably on the bottom of my list, I just think stuff like the mentioned war, politics and also trade, crime and terraforming/colonizing is a lot more important and should have a higher priority then stuff that people may play once or twice.

 

[BrokenSky]

Species Packs
When it comes to species, I could see us examining what kinds of life could arise on molten or frozen worlds, much like we did with Toxoids. Like Toxoids, they’d likely need some restrictions on what they can do with those worlds (as they’re 10x more abundant than normal habitable worlds), but they’d be interesting to explore. Players often ask for gaseous or energy creatures - the first are already represented to an extent by the Dathnak and the latter by the Unbidden. I feel that energy beings may go too far into fantasy “elementals”, so I’d like to stay away from them if possible. Expanding the existing species phenotypes could also potentially be interesting - Plantoids II, for example.

Or perhaps Mamelian, Avian and Reptilian focused ones?

(when I say Mamelian, I'm not talking about humanoids - I need yet another cat portrait set and like.. 6 dog ones. guess we can do Elephants too while we're here).