Stellaris Dev Diary #364 - Sights Unseen

[Cassilda]

I really love to see most of the points mentioned expanded, especially the internal politics (and politics as a whole), the revamped psionic and bio ascension and I really hope to see more species packs, even if I'd personally like some further expansion of the existing ones (especially new portraits) before adding completely new ones. And space piracy would be really interesting as well.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

The scenarios thing could be interesting, though I’m not sure I’d use it much if it was simply there for shorter and more focused runs. In the other hand a “canon” galaxy setup would get a lot of mileage from me if it was any good.

 

[PedroHSpavao]

I was thinking of more selectable or random mid-game crises instead of Khan. We could have the unification of piracy or better yet the age of pirates where all empires would suffer from lack of commercial protection even in sectors with no commercial value they would suffer pirate attacks on mining stations, research, etc. Habitable worlds will be colonized and pre-FTL will be invaded if piracy is too high the world will become a black market world. The rate at which piracy is now created is due to 2 factors: corruption or deviation and if the system has high rates of corruption and deviation. It was just an example. I would like Stellaris to be inspired by the pirate era of the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries.

 

[Obeliskkai]

This is exciting, shows plenty of life in is in the old game yet!

In regards to your species pack suggestion, I do have a few things to say.

I don't believe the Detox trait was the best way of dealing with this fantasy as it requires an ascension trait to fully unlock and the race can settle existing planets anyway.

When it comes to Molten and Frozen worlds, what I would suggest is that you break them into categories, similar to the existing 'dry, wet and cold' planets we currently have. The big thing about 'dry, wet and cold' is that existing Empires can settle the lot of them. they just have to pay a penalty through habitability for doing so which is moderated as the game goes on.

For Molten and Frozen, I would make them permanently unsettleable by any race that can settle on the existing categories. If your race is attuned to molten worlds, you will only ever be able to settle molten worlds. Worlds of the other types can be conquered and ruled but your citizens can't move there. Similarly, molten and frozen worlds would be off limits to you if you took a traditional approach.

I would then differentiate each of the new categories so that the majority of molten or frozen planets aren't habitable for some reason (which would deal with game balance concerns). Perhaps the magnetic field is too strong, or the molten world is actually still too cold for your volcanic loving race.

Finally, I would actually rework Toxic as a sixth category of planet subject to the same rules as molten and frozen proposed above (can settle Toxic worlds only, can't settle others but CAN conquer them) to better fulfil the fantasy.

 

[rubert]

I don't see how Nomads could function well without major changes to the borders and travelling across the galaxy. Once the expansion phase is done everything is claimed so the nomads would have little reason to travel other than to move just for sake of moving. Couple ideas:

• "Deep Space" which cannot be claimed between systems to allow easier travel across galaxy
• "Deep Exploration" to simulate larger galaxy than what the game mechnically can support. It could function like the giga structure from Gigastructures mods which creates entirely new systems. This would alllow the nomads to keep moving to new places. Obvious problem is the huge lag spike creating new systems causes.
  • Maybe destroy the system once the nomads leave to simulate that only the nomads know the deep exploration because of reasons. Gamey though.

 

[Corrin Nohriana]

I would love to see some Hive Mind tweaks in a Biological Ascension expansion.

My biggest dream though is a Hive Mind version of the Rogue Servitor, a hive mind finding these 'single mind' beings so interesting, they can't help but collect them to, up to player choice, invasively study or passively study, or to just treat like pets of a sort.

I'm not keen on it being just a livestock thing, as that is...boring really.

 

[Quakstron]

Could the improved inner-politics (like factions and political pops) lead to more intricate diplomatic decisions between empires? Right now most of them are very basic. Adding lots of various agreements and options would make everything way more interesting, and you could get a deeply connects political map with intricate deals and agreements. And maybe also a feature to merge two federations? Where if your leader of a federation you could get access to federation agreements where you can reach out to another federation leader and propose a merging. Following this could come a long merging event/situation where empires have to agree on the new federation, or decide to leave this new mega-fed. Could cause tension. Because way to often the galaxy becomes split between two federations that have equal ethics and are friends otherwise but can’t really work together due to them just being on opposite sides even though it would make sense for them to cooperate.

 

[Spododo]

Interesting times ahead!

The nomads do sound interesting, maybe they simply move because their economy is way too demanding and wasteful, allowing them to quickly earn resources at first but as they deplete the best spots, planets and asteroids yield less and less, forcing them to move on? My main question though would be: What if the AI starts hating you all around the galaxy because you forgot that one Voidworm fleet had been set to infect-mode – where do you go?


Other things that I find missing are basically two: A kind of internal (midgame?) crisis or crisis-like state instead of the current external ones, that can hit major empires to prevent the formation of too few to big power blobs and a way to wage wars more successfully from a defensive position.

The first I think could be interesting in general, as most problems, including the crisis, boil down to “throw more ships at it!” or, sometimes, for the midgame crisis, “hunker down and wait/ignore”, especially if the Khan is on the other end of the galaxy. So in my opinion, an internal power struggle that requires fleet power only as the very last (and suboptimal) resort might be interesting. A hivemind becoming too great to process and keep every stray thought in line, individualistic empires threatened by their most discontent factions banding together and threatening to tear the empire apart (could be into a number of satellite vassals, a kind of hegemony or just splintering into two halves) or simple infighting of space monarchs/oligarchs/warlords. In short, a brewing “big unrest” that is not simply one or two planets splitting off, but a good chunk of your people and staff threatening to leave. Solutions could be manifold through event chains or the situation mechanic – remove the leaders and thus loose characters from your pool, reform your government, taking on traits you may or may not want, dismantle them from within (like an espionage against yourself, potentially external rivals could make this situation worse or be the actual power behind the revolts) or, if all else fails and/or you like to see it all burn, go for a civil war.

Given the impact of such an event (whether it would be before or after the midgame crisis), it might be best as a kind of toggleable internal crisis. For me, it would be great because I nearly never finish a game since around the midgame, it feels like I’m just waiting for the crisis or that I’m dragging my feet, because the next galactic war would be too big and tedious to run. And just upping the AI boni doesn’t feel great to me, I’d rather than like to focus on the political simulation at that point.



Second thing would be the military equivalent of the kilostructures. After all, a Dyson sphere is just a misaligned death laser. Some kind of solar-tillery could help weaken pesky space stations or demoralize (if not outright devastate) an enemy’s fringe planets near the border, helping to rack up warscore. This would also give quantum catapults an additional use, as an effective way to counter this kind of artillery before it can charge and fire.

Alpha-shields as a kind of full-upgraded world-ring station could act as stoppers to bombardment and landing troops – at least until the battery runs out, those stratosphere chargers are too slow to keep up after all, so you can buy a few months at best. But hey, at least this gives your less developed worlds a chance to actually wait for your fleet or a peace offer instead of just being overrun, I’m sure the manufacturer isn’t overselling this expensive piece of equipment!

Trap/slow enemies for a few precious weeks with modified snares, whittle them down by focusing ambient debuffs through resonance amplifiers into damaging auras/local storms. Basically, turn some of those interesting but hard-to-see modules from stations into structures of their own – clear military targets providing clear advantages for their owner (possibly rigged to explode when captured, depending on policy).

At last, propaganda to increase an enemy’s warscore could either be done via a kind of deep-space broadcasting structure and/or an espionage mission (but tbh, espionage needs a rework anyway, given the lack of fine-tuning targets and often dubious impacts so maybe a structure is the way to go). Inflate the power of your fleet, the impact of your victories and the unjust ways of your enemies to weaken their resolve (or rally the galactic community to your side, to pressure hiveminds and the like indirectly), except for the fully unhinged devourers etc. of course.

If the current fleet system is to be reworked, adding some more depth and ways to fight off a stronger force could be interesting. Of course ideally, this would also include some kind of semi-automatization of fleets (like “capture/defend this sector”) to keep the micro from overspilling, but I’m sure you can do it!



Minor things from the top of my hat I’d love to see and experience:

Rebel scum instead of just pirates as mini foes, may or may not have a secret base to uproot. May simply be a byproduct of low happiness, your form of government or maybe a nice little event chain after forming the galactic empire

Turning your own fleets or mercenaries into false-flag operation rebels could also be an interesting point adding to this, maybe as a civic or a tradition as an alternative to all out warfare

Diplomatic mechanics to break up or merge existing federations and other treaties, maybe a kind of espionage action triggering a situation for the other side that needs to be resolved

Coming back to internal politics once more: Actual clans/houses/duchy factions within your empire that build their own holdings (either costing a building slot or acting like a branch office), siphoning a few of your jobs and naval capacity to build their own fleets, patrolling “their” part of space to add more to the “competing oligarchs / space CK/ space orc-clans” feeling. Maybe as an origin or civic introducing ~3 feuding factions, that will come together under your rule like merc-fleets in times of defensive wars / total wars / and crisis, but otherwise need persuasion to actually follow your interests, be it political favors, bribes or outright threat. I enjoyed the various factions from Cybernetic Creed, but would like to see them in a more active form instead of mostly text based choices.





At last: Thanks for the great work and continued support of the game!

 

[Xdod1605]

Is the idea of shroud base speices also in the realm of being too fantastical? Think like things like demons of chaos or demons from doom guy.

But other that question, this all look like amazing ideas! I am so excited to see them come to life

 

[JagoTheFanaticalPurifier]

I really like the idea of factions getting a rework. There is something very appealing about the idea that your own nation's idea of, say, spiritualism, is different from that of another nations. And then the idea of spreading those factions to neighboring empires? Seems like it may even go well with an espionage overhaul. It would also make ethics themselves feel more like you have a concept of an ideology, and then your people kind of flesh out what exactly that ideology IS. Maybe even experimenting with duel ethic factions? Very exciting stuff. Plus, we could see more dynamic civil wars, and other nations being formed from old ones. That would definitely help the galaxy feel more alive.

 

[Taritu]

I'd really like to see some GOOD spiritual/shroud stuff, as opposed to everything being evil or borderline evil. My religious empire fantasies include the possibility of being crusaders for good and so on. Right now in spiritual ascenscion I usually don't even take a Covenant, since they're all creepy at best.

Religion can definitely be a force for evil, but religion has also inspired plenty of good, especially in fantasy/sci. fi.

 

[OluapPlayer]

Good dev log! I look forward to seeing how things improve over time.

Out of the things mentioned, scenarios are something that interest me a lot, specifically the ability to hand-craft my own galaxy. Some players like me enjoy worldbuilding with the game's tools, so I'd love to be able to start a game where the galaxy is already inhabited by the species I made and they already have pre-established relations with one another.

Say I start the game as usual, but the galaxy is already divided between an advanced X and Y empires, who are each leaders of a separate federation who are fierce rivals with one another. That's the kind of thing I mean.

 

[Headbomb]

I'd like to point out three things, aside from the fanboyish OH MY GOD I'VE BEEN SEEN THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER. Because it is, and we couldn't ask for a better response.

1) Stellaris, despite having tons and tons of content, is rather repetitive. Your only measure of strength is your own fleet. Your only measure of economy is your own pops. Your only measure of tempo is research per month. All these origins, civics and smaller customization exist only to slightly alter these pillars. The difference between a devouring swarm and the UNE is negligible on the moment-to-moment basis. Your first run is unique. Your second run is familiar. Your third run is experimental. Your forth run is routine. The teams did a lot of work to streamline that routine, but it is routine nonetheless. Variety is the spice of life, as the saying goes. Stellaris lacks real variety.

I keep comparing Stellaris with Endless Space series, and in my opinion, ES wins in terms of variety, but loses in terms of sheer content. Races in there have a unique storyline (which is really emphasised and treated like a proper story, not a setting off point for a sandbox) and a unique mechanic available only to them. The latter part is sorely missing in Stellaris. Sure, I can make up a nation that would act a certain way in terms of roleplay, but in practice I'm doing the exact same thing - because it's optimal. I am not restricted in any major way, so I naturally gravitate towards the strongest option. The events I see, despite having multiple options, are resolved in the same way, or sometimes worse - are inconsequential and my choice doesn't matter in the slightest. I will not be punished for upholding value A in one case and value B in another; I will not be restricted to option Y that is suboptimal, but make up for it with a passive bonus somewhere else; the story of the galaxy will not change beyond "Nation A ate nation B allied with nation C". The only ending you are incentivized to get is to eat up the whole galaxy and beat the crisis. You either win or lose - it's very binary. There is a parallel with Mass Effect ending here somewhere, but at least in there the in-between choices mattered a lot. I do not feel that Stellaris does that well in either mechanical or narrative way.

I encourage you to make up the moxt extreme polar opposites of the fantasies you want players to have. For example, create a barbarian horde, esteemed diplomats-charmers, smartypants researchers, a scheming megacorp, an amoral hivemind and a machine with a dream. Play a game with each and note what you do, mechanically and narratively. Do the campaigns differ from each other in a meaningful way? Does that difference persists on the same level throughout the whole game or does it dip and spike? Would you be able to play that nation again and have a different experience on par with playing another type of nation in the list?

You've said that you plan on reworking and expanding other ascensions. I'm glad to hear that, but I can't help but worry that the initial stage will stay the same, that is, repetitive, similar to other games. I got the Machine Age on release and I didn't get to my mechanical ascension - the steam ran out before I could see the new exciting stuff. It was more of the same for me, and when it wasn't - I wasn't there to see it. I believe this is the reason why players ask for a mid-game preset so much.

2) Stellaris lacks a cohesive, standing out visual style. Don't get me wrong, trailers? Phenomenal stuff, absolutely stellar (ha). What you did with paragons? Amazing, I love me some sleek windows. But if I wasn't presented with a game title, I wouldn't be able to tell Stellaris from any other space game that I'm not familiar with, not at a glance. To be entirely honest with you, I simply dislike "Stellaris green" you've got everywhere. It's not pleasant for me to look at, and regular event windows are tiresome for me. They are too blocky, too 2010s for me. Not modern minimalist, not modern sleek, not modern overwhelming. If it was up to me, I would've started with picking a different color and a format for event windows. Your artwork is beautiful, why do you insist on hiding it so much between swamp-green borders? The space is not green, and dark green is not exactly inspiring to see the vast and full of wonders.

Another thing is, just like the artwork, which is simply incredible, you hide the work of your 3D artists. I'm really glad you added ship preview window, but it's not enough. Your planets look FANTASTIC up close, but at no point do you focus your attention to them, it's always system view. Space weather? Cosmic horrors? Epic space battles? All are ants on my screen. Compare it with Endless Space again — you KNOW it's Endless Space from one screenshot. The ships are HUGE, they are on full display, they are "artsy", but not cartoonish. You click on a planet in ES - it takes your whole screen. Terraforming in ES is pure joy. Seeing numbers grow next to an array of system's planets is even more joyful. Slapping a new kinetic gun on a ship is ecstatic! RATATATA it goes! Watching space combat is... unnecessary, but occasionally fun. Watching a cutscene of a planet colonization is repetitive, but man if it isn't beautiful. That's the things people remember years after years - specific snapshots that blew them away, not how many ships there were on screen during War #157.

To the same point about variety - a lot of stuff you have is bound to be never seen. Ships have tons of different modules, but very few get picked because of the meta. Ship types themselves may never see existence because the player will never craft them due to time it takes to reach. And even if they do...

3) Stellaris is huge, but also very small. Scale in Stellaris is... very off. I know, I know, visibility, readability, ease of use and so on, but have you seen it for yourself? A corvette is the size of space station, which is itself the size of a small moon! It gets mocked constantly by new players, since it tanks the immersion significantly. If the smallest ship is so big, then the biggest ship loses all its grandeur, since you can't compare it to a known object. You have one artwork, the loading screen with a huge window overlooking the skyline with a spaceship absolutely dominating the space where the sky would be. I can't describe just how powerful it feels to me. In my opinion, that fantasy, that idea, that scale never comes close in the game itself. I can't be in awe of a cosmic horror - it's an ant. I can't feel pride after making my first titan - it's my ant. I can't be terrified of a crisis - it's a differently colored swarm of ants.

If I may, here are two requests that should be relatively simple:
a) Allow changing flag colors during empire creation on a shipset select screen, so that the players can see how their ships will look like with current colors and change them if needed.
b) Add size scaling depending on the zoom level. If your camera is far away - the ships are big, so they are visible. If the camera is very close - the ships are the "real" size, small, tiny even, compared to the rest of the system.

As for the rest - you know better than me what the potential solution can be, or even if these are the problems in the first place. I just wanted to share my thoughts as to why I'm "unfulfilled as ever, and still come back for more". I want to love Stellaris the same way people with thousands upon thousands hours do. I want to see all the work you've done in the best light possible. I just... see the same shipyards pumping out meta destroyers with science hubs in the background going for the tenth infinite research.

Edit: "barbarian horde", not "barbarian horse'. Though make a barbarian horse empire nonetheless!

 

[Inny]

This looks promising!
I feel that the Fallen Empires could benefit from a revisit to flesh them more.

 

[arosenberger14]

Sounds like a neat set of ideas! As the crumudgenly old gameplay nerd here, I gotta say that the changes to internal politics and diplomacy/warfare sound a lot more interesting to me than the revamped ascension paths or new species packs.

I'm just much more interested in ways that change how the game fundamentally plays. Been reading a lot about the history of international trade, and it'd be really cool if Stellaris simulated something similar to modern economic development where early game you always have jobs for pops on their planets, then late game as automation and trade take off everyone gets pushed into menial service jobs or high-power upper class jobs. Some sort of twist like that where the rules of the economic game change around mid-game in a way that shakes everything up politically would be really cool.

 

[Velladriel]

I like the idea of cultures and factions! I always wanted cultures/religions in the game similiar to CK3 which we can design with some kind of civics. This would open up alot of stuff you could do with that, if each pop would be a member in a religion/culture. You could influence other empires with your culture or start holy wars or they give buffs if you reach a certain goal. They could also have a level system based on the amount of members and would fit to alot of systems already ingame, like events, civis, origins and so on

 

[Nyrael]

I'd really like to see some GOOD spiritual/shroud stuff, as opposed to everything being evil or borderline evil. My religious empire fantasies include the possibility of being crusaders for good and so on. Right now in spiritual ascenscion I usually don't even take a Covenant, since they're all creepy at best.

Religion can definitely be a force for evil, but religion has also inspired plenty of good, especially in fantasy/sci. fi.

Fortunately, you can skip the Covenant and not feel penalized (as Covenants come with huge deficits). The Shroud Entities are all inspired by the evil Chaos gods of Warhammer 40K, and embracing a Covenant is IMO betrayal of whatever deities you used to worship.
But I also don't see what else could be added to this. Spiritualist plus Libertarian or Xenophile would already be considered a good-aligned religious nation.

 

[Dr. B]

Eladrin ordered me to keep my espionage plans fully classified. Otherwise I would have spilled all the beans in the above DD

But I kept a close watch on community suggestions for years now!

I'm just going to repeat something I've said in some other forum posts long ago.

What made espionage good in Master of Orion (1+2) was that it did directly tie into research as a central game mechanic. You could not research everything, you would have holes/weak spots in your tech that could be somewhat patched with tech trading, ground invasjon, and finally with espionage!

Espionage could give you the advantage of getting crucial tech that other empires had researched, either far more advanced than your own, or perhaps an important tech you never rolled yourself. It was an important gameplay feature directly integrated with the core game mechanics.

Stellaris, and other games as well, has tried to treat espionage as an add-on, a sideshow without a really game-defining effect. The Stellaris version is also expensive and toothless, and can br 100% ignored. This is just creating annoying busywork.

In order to make it good, espionage should provide you with info/research/opportunity that you can not get elsewhere. Have it as a major game element, not an afterthought.

Sun Tzu, the Art of War:
The enlightened ruler and the wise general will use the highest intelligence of the army for purposes of spying and thereby achieve great results.
An army without spies is like a man without ears or eyes.

 

[Taritu]

Fortunately, you can skip the Covenant and not feel penalized (as Covenants come with huge deficits). The Shroud Entities are all inspired by the evil Chaos gods of Warhammer 40K, and embracing a Covenant is IMO betrayal of whatever deities you used to worship.
But I also don't see what else could be added to this. Spiritualist plus Libertarian or Xenophile would already be considered a good-aligned religious nation.

Why not some good shroud entities? It doesn't all have to be grim W40K inspired.

Psionics also could be used to understand other species and bring peace. Right now it's about espionage, but an option to lean into diplomacy could work (admittedly, also for ill.)

 

[DCHY]

Personally, I really like the idea of nomads with biological ships. An empire of huge intelligent space creatures instead of billions of small creatures where every worker is a truly important and irreplaceable unit, an impressive concept of a devouring swarm that as Praetorians need planets and other creatures solely as food needed for the reproduction of their huge queens. Or peaceful creatures ready for symbiosis with plant empires. Travel around the galaxy not in search of habitable planets, but in search of systems and stars ideal for their titanic appearance, the ability to change the conditions in them for themselves or even ask for the opportunity to live within the borders of foreign empires. The xenophile pacifist empire guarded by a swarm of space titans sounds great