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Stellaris Dev Diary #369 - 4.0 Changes: Part 3

Hello everyone!

Today we’re going to take a glance at the Trade and Logistics changes coming in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, then check out some new portraits.

Trade and Logistics​

Trade as a Standard Resource

The Trade system introduced in the Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ update was raised as an especially frequent point of confusion for many players. UX issues around disconnected trade stations combined with some quirks of being a modifier based system (like ignoring habitability) made some of it unintuitive. The system had a major impact on performance as well, so while examining Stellaris for optimizations, we decided that we wanted to revamp the system.

In 4.0, Trade will become a standard advanced resource, generally produced in the same way as before, but will follow all of the standard rules around resource-producing jobs. The Trade Routes system has been removed - any produced Trade will be immediately collected like any other normal resource.

Resource Bar showing Trade

We’ve done some cleanup to the top bar while we were in there.

Logistical Upkeep

Hello, @Gruntsatwork here, with Eladrin’s UI wizardry done, I shall step in to reveal some of our trade secrets to you.

The majority of your trade upkeep will come from 2 sources in the new system.

First, local planetary deficits will carry a small trade upkeep, a fraction of the missing resources value on the galactic market. This represents the logistical effort required to commandeer freighters to supply a world that is not self-sufficient and therefore requires resources to be transported in from off-world. Mind you, this will occur in addition to normal deficits, if your entire empire is not capable of supplying those needs either.

In short, your planets will either satisfy their own local needs, or require trade to offset the logistics cost.

The second major trade upkeep will come from Fleets. Any fleets currently docked at one of your starbases have no trade upkeep.

Once your fleets start to move they will gain a small Trade Upkeep, representing the logistical efforts required to support them. This small upkeep will increase if your fleets are in hostile territory – that is territory owned by another empire you are at war with, as supplying them becomes so much more dangerous and space insurance coverage is no joke.

In the future, logistical upkeep could potentially be used to counter-act Doomstacking, for example by scaling upkeep with the number of ships in a fleet, dividing by the number of fleets, fleets per system etc, we have no concrete solution yet, but welcome your thoughts.

With these new sources of trade upkeep, it is of course important to mention that we will also introduce a new trade deficit. Like Unity, this will not create a Deficit Situation but a country modifier that persists until the deficit is dealt with. Running a trade deficit will reduce advanced resource production (alloys, consumer goods, unity, and research) and all ship weapons damage.

Stockpiling Trade and Using Trade in the Market

Our intent is for Trade Policies to continue to exist going forward. Currently, we expect to have half of your net Trade income (after paying Logistical Upkeep) converted to other resources using your Trade Policy, plus any that might otherwise overflow your storage. Some of the current Trade Policies may be tweaked a bit. The rest will go into your resource stockpile as an advanced resource.

In addition, the galactic market has been adjusted so that its primary trading resource is Trade. As such, energy is now available on the market as a standard resource. The energy storage cap has been brought to the same level as minerals and food, while Trade’s storage cap has been set to 50.000 at the base level.

As we are in the middle of implementation, we are adjusting this as we receive internal feedback and will continue to do so when it is time for our open beta.

We will be keeping a close eye on the value of trade as a resource. If necessary, we’ll keep turning the dials to ensure it is an actually interesting resource to focus on.

For modders, the main market resource is set as a define and can be switched to something else.

Gestalt Empires and Trade

Rejoice, friends of bugs and bolts, for you too will be able to enjoy the benefits of trade starting with 4.0.

As part of the Phoenix update, Gestalt empires will be able to collect trade like normal empires do, from both jobs and deposits.

In contrast to normal empires, Gestalt empires will rarely do so with Traders and Clerks, instead their most basic drones, maintenance drones for example, will create trade in addition to their normal resources and modifiers. In addition, they will also have access to Trade Policies, to enrich their common wallet.

Of course, with benefits come drawbacks, and so Gestalt Empires will also deal with the logistical upkeep for local planetary deficits and Fleets that are not docked and/or within hostile territory. The Galactic Market will of course also accept gestalt trade as its main resource.

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

Corporate Branch Office Updates

For Branch Offices, we have a plethora of improvements ready for your enjoyment, courtesy of our ever industrious Mr.Cosmogone.

Branch office buildings are now all limited to 1 per planet and now give more appropriate jobs to the host planet. They also increase local trade production based on those jobs and their corporate resource output is in turn increased by local trade.

Most Corporate Civics now also give bonuses to a specific branch office building, increasing its trade value bonus and receiving Merchant jobs on their Capital from it.

Numerous changes have been made to Criminal Syndicates:

  • Criminal Empires can now establish commercial pacts. Having a commercial pact with a Criminal Empire will replace all criminal buildings with their "lawful" counterpart. As long as the commercial pact remains, criminal branch offices will not be removed from the planet.
  • All Criminal branch office buildings have had their crime value set to 25 and give one Criminal Job alongside a regular Job.
  • We have also added a crime floor to non-criminal branch office buildings on empires they have a trade agreement with, which means there will always be a minimum amount of crime on the branch office planet. Criminal branch offices are also up to 25% more profitable on high crime planets.

Balance-wise, these buildings are more impactful, so branch office buildings now cost influence, and branch offices now take up 5 empire size instead of 2.

Oh, and we have also allowed Megacorps to open branch offices on other Megacorps... The influence cost is doubled when built on a planet owned by another Megacorp.

Mammalian Portraits​

Thanks, Gruntsatwork. Now a message from Content Design Lead @CGInglis :

And now my deer friends, one mooo-re surprise for you! The Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update brings ten paws-itively stunning new Mammalian portraits to the base game!

Mammalian Species Portraits

Glass of milk, standing in between extinction in the cold, and explosive radiating growth…



The Gremlin

A regal Hippopotaxeno

My, what big teeth you have.

The secrets of enlightenment are waiting.


Next Week​

Next week we’ll start talking about how Pops will change and might pull up the new Planet UI. Since the branch itself is still very full of placeholders, we’ll be using the design mockups while explaining the changes.

See you then!
 
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Will everyone be gaining access to solar panels?

Are Trade hubs and Offworld Trading Company sticking around? I'd not be overly interested in building trade hubs if all they do is generate some trade.

Is crew quarters getting changed?

It would be neat if docking ships at a party port generated trade but also crime or something.
 
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Is Trade, um, tradable? With other empires via the diplomacy screen?
 
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The second major trade upkeep will come from Fleets. Any fleets currently docked at one of your starbases have no trade upkeep.

Once your fleets start to move they will gain a small Trade Upkeep, representing the logistical efforts required to support them. This small upkeep will increase if your fleets are in hostile territory – that is territory owned by another empire you are at war with, as supplying them becomes so much more dangerous and space insurance coverage is no joke.

Does this work like the trade routes and I need to connect my fleets to the routs in order to fully keep them running? Or is it like the current upkeep but with trade?

For Branch Offices, we have a plethora of improvements ready for your enjoyment, courtesy of our ever industrious Mr.Cosmogone.

Branch office expansion planer tab, pretty please. Subjects are so nice to handle with the tab.

And now my deer friends, one mooo-re surprise for you! The Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update brings ten paws-itively stunning new Mammalian portraits to the base game!

You gotta kitten me. More mammalians, well thats sheep. You know what would just bear more excitement: new exclusive traits along with them!
 
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Well the reworking of the trade mechanics is not bad, but I was still hoping that more opportunities would be added to connect different galaxy states economically
As an example: Country A buys food from country B because the main habitat of the race inhabiting country A are high mountain worlds where it is very difficult to grow food.
At this rate, some time passes and country B is destroyed by a Determined Exterminator, leaving country A without a food source and having to find a replacement.
That's the kind of thing I was hoping for, but this one's not bad either.
 
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I love all of this

Two minor comments on trade:
1) Ongoing trade upkeep per ship is good but any doomstack scaling penalties should only apply in combat. Otherwise you incentivise weird micro where your doomstack is traveling around in multiple blobs but still converging for fights.
2) Can you change the name of trade for hiveminds? "Attention" or "Processing power" or something.

1. You know what they say: March Divided, Fight United
 
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I hope you keep the trade route generation system in the backend for modding. I was going to say that it would be nice if trade routes were automatically generated so that you could simulate blockades during warfare, but I think the simplified model with economic loss from lost planets works well enough.

Wait, wait, with this model doesn't that mean that you could have one big 'trade planet' and cover all deficits with it? So your entire empire's transit system is run by the Trade Moon around your ecumenopolis, and if you lose the Trade Moon your entire economy collapses because you can't maintain your trade routes anymore. Interesting possibilities there...
 
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Currently, we expect to have half of your net Trade income (after paying Logistical Upkeep) converted to other resources using your Trade Policy, plus any that might otherwise overflow your storage.

Will this work both ways? I.e. will overflowing resources be automatically sold for trade? That would be a really nice micro-reducing system to have.

(Even better would be a system where you could set auto-buy and auto-sell orders with overflow, i.e. toggle "automatically sell overflow" for individual resources, and then set one or more resources as an auto-buy target if your trade overflows.)
 
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Is piracy changes reserved for another blog, or did they got accidentaly left out? Imagine they got some kind of rework with trade routes removal.
 
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Definetly some interesting sounding changes. Will be excited to try them out, when they are out. Especially since Megacorps are my favorite kind of empire.

Regarding the portraits I have the feeling stellaris portraits have become to overly detailed over time. They loose clear visual identity from that a little, since the individual shapes are becoming hard to distinguish if the art is in a smaller format, especially with contrast between body shapes also seemingly going down.
 
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It is really weird that Gestalt empires would have access to a resource named "Trade". In the same vein that "Crime" is renamed to "Deviancy" for gestalts, I propose renaming "Trade" to "Logistics" if you are gestalt.
 
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I also wanted to ask this, can megacorps finally build branch offices on gestalt worlds now that trade value is universal?

I wonder how one would even implement this. I don't see Gestalt drones working for external entities, so the Megacorp would have to ring some of their own POPs there (which honestly I feel like they should do in general, more than half of added jobs should be taken by the POPs from the Megacorp).
 
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I wonder, will some of those new portraits use dynamic cybernetic or have a synth equivalent like the one introduced in the machine age ?
Some of those new portaits look like they have implants on them, hence my question.
 
I also wanted to ask this, can megacorps finally build branch offices on gestalt worlds now that trade value is universal?

I think thematically it makes more sense for gestalt empires to treat this new version of trade value as "logistics" rather than trade, with the key restriction being you cannot use it to trade with other empires, you can only use it internally.
 
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Having trade as a resource that you produce anywhere being used to cover planetary deficiencies if they are not self sufficient is a genius way to simulate inter planetary trade and planets being self sufficient or not, without actually having to do a complicated simulation. I think it's great. Same as having trade being the resource you use to trade in the market, I think that's also genius. I can see that definitely making the game more engaging and the market more strategic.

I also like criminal mega corps having normal commercial pacts and having branch offices on other mega corps. But I don't know about only having 1 building on each planet, I feel that's a bit to restrictive, especially RP wise.

The new portraits also look like a lot of fun. You are spoiling us.
 
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In the future, logistical upkeep could potentially be used to counter-act Doomstacking, for example by scaling upkeep with the number of ships in a fleet, dividing by the number of fleets, fleets per system etc, we have no concrete solution yet, but welcome your thoughts.

Oh my god I would kill and/or die if this was implemented right! I think that if logistics are going to be a factor it might be simpler to set up a maximum logistical capacity on a given system after which the trade upkeep exponentially increases (like fleet limit!). This way if players want to have doomstacks they will either have to:
- Fight on a system they have a high level starbase in with some sort of logistics related building (ideally a top building so they can have several rather than a bottom building which would limit them to just one)
- Fight on a system they at least control even if they don't have a starbase with logistics buildings, giving them a bonus to logistics capacity because of owned territory which will help but they will still need a lot of logistics capacity and/or trade to spare as without the starbase buildings a full doomstack will still be very costly
- Have an insane combo of logistics capacity bonuses AND a lot of trade capacity if they're fighting on enemy territory as they will have no owned territory logistics bonus let alone starbase logistics buildings

This is even better when you consider that defensive doomstacks might become viable, especially if each important system has an starbase with multiple logistics modules, while offensive doomstacks will be extremely difficult and expensive. It is possible the system could be made so that defensive doomstacks are only possible in a maxed out logistics starbase, possibly requiring orbital rings with similar modules or planetary logistical buildings or something, while owned territory gives a significant bonus but good luck having more than 50% of your fleet in there. Or perhaps even less if you're a very wide empire with a lot of ships. This could change the meta so that massive empires have "stacks" instead of "doomstacks' kinda like in eu4 which would add micro but fully resolve the doomstacking problem. A tamer approach is to be generous with logistics capacity, making logistic modules on starbases be reserved for specific strategies and allowing for full offensive doomstacks at a hefty but non-prohibitive cost. Personally I'd go for something in between to keep the system balanced.
 
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