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Stellaris Dev Diary #369 - 4.0 Changes: Part 3

Hello everyone!

Today we’re going to take a glance at the Trade and Logistics changes coming in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, then check out some new portraits.

Trade and Logistics​

Trade as a Standard Resource

The Trade system introduced in the Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ update was raised as an especially frequent point of confusion for many players. UX issues around disconnected trade stations combined with some quirks of being a modifier based system (like ignoring habitability) made some of it unintuitive. The system had a major impact on performance as well, so while examining Stellaris for optimizations, we decided that we wanted to revamp the system.

In 4.0, Trade will become a standard advanced resource, generally produced in the same way as before, but will follow all of the standard rules around resource-producing jobs. The Trade Routes system has been removed - any produced Trade will be immediately collected like any other normal resource.

Resource Bar showing Trade

We’ve done some cleanup to the top bar while we were in there.

Logistical Upkeep

Hello, @Gruntsatwork here, with Eladrin’s UI wizardry done, I shall step in to reveal some of our trade secrets to you.

The majority of your trade upkeep will come from 2 sources in the new system.

First, local planetary deficits will carry a small trade upkeep, a fraction of the missing resources value on the galactic market. This represents the logistical effort required to commandeer freighters to supply a world that is not self-sufficient and therefore requires resources to be transported in from off-world. Mind you, this will occur in addition to normal deficits, if your entire empire is not capable of supplying those needs either.

In short, your planets will either satisfy their own local needs, or require trade to offset the logistics cost.

The second major trade upkeep will come from Fleets. Any fleets currently docked at one of your starbases have no trade upkeep.

Once your fleets start to move they will gain a small Trade Upkeep, representing the logistical efforts required to support them. This small upkeep will increase if your fleets are in hostile territory – that is territory owned by another empire you are at war with, as supplying them becomes so much more dangerous and space insurance coverage is no joke.

In the future, logistical upkeep could potentially be used to counter-act Doomstacking, for example by scaling upkeep with the number of ships in a fleet, dividing by the number of fleets, fleets per system etc, we have no concrete solution yet, but welcome your thoughts.

With these new sources of trade upkeep, it is of course important to mention that we will also introduce a new trade deficit. Like Unity, this will not create a Deficit Situation but a country modifier that persists until the deficit is dealt with. Running a trade deficit will reduce advanced resource production (alloys, consumer goods, unity, and research) and all ship weapons damage.

Stockpiling Trade and Using Trade in the Market

Our intent is for Trade Policies to continue to exist going forward. Currently, we expect to have half of your net Trade income (after paying Logistical Upkeep) converted to other resources using your Trade Policy, plus any that might otherwise overflow your storage. Some of the current Trade Policies may be tweaked a bit. The rest will go into your resource stockpile as an advanced resource.

In addition, the galactic market has been adjusted so that its primary trading resource is Trade. As such, energy is now available on the market as a standard resource. The energy storage cap has been brought to the same level as minerals and food, while Trade’s storage cap has been set to 50.000 at the base level.

As we are in the middle of implementation, we are adjusting this as we receive internal feedback and will continue to do so when it is time for our open beta.

We will be keeping a close eye on the value of trade as a resource. If necessary, we’ll keep turning the dials to ensure it is an actually interesting resource to focus on.

For modders, the main market resource is set as a define and can be switched to something else.

Gestalt Empires and Trade

Rejoice, friends of bugs and bolts, for you too will be able to enjoy the benefits of trade starting with 4.0.

As part of the Phoenix update, Gestalt empires will be able to collect trade like normal empires do, from both jobs and deposits.

In contrast to normal empires, Gestalt empires will rarely do so with Traders and Clerks, instead their most basic drones, maintenance drones for example, will create trade in addition to their normal resources and modifiers. In addition, they will also have access to Trade Policies, to enrich their common wallet.

Of course, with benefits come drawbacks, and so Gestalt Empires will also deal with the logistical upkeep for local planetary deficits and Fleets that are not docked and/or within hostile territory. The Galactic Market will of course also accept gestalt trade as its main resource.

In the future, we are also considering Megacorp Gestalt Empires, for your corporate drone needs, but whether we will have time to do that for 4.0 or later remains to be seen.

Corporate Branch Office Updates

For Branch Offices, we have a plethora of improvements ready for your enjoyment, courtesy of our ever industrious Mr.Cosmogone.

Branch office buildings are now all limited to 1 per planet and now give more appropriate jobs to the host planet. They also increase local trade production based on those jobs and their corporate resource output is in turn increased by local trade.

Most Corporate Civics now also give bonuses to a specific branch office building, increasing its trade value bonus and receiving Merchant jobs on their Capital from it.

Numerous changes have been made to Criminal Syndicates:

  • Criminal Empires can now establish commercial pacts. Having a commercial pact with a Criminal Empire will replace all criminal buildings with their "lawful" counterpart. As long as the commercial pact remains, criminal branch offices will not be removed from the planet.
  • All Criminal branch office buildings have had their crime value set to 25 and give one Criminal Job alongside a regular Job.
  • We have also added a crime floor to non-criminal branch office buildings on empires they have a trade agreement with, which means there will always be a minimum amount of crime on the branch office planet. Criminal branch offices are also up to 25% more profitable on high crime planets.

Balance-wise, these buildings are more impactful, so branch office buildings now cost influence, and branch offices now take up 5 empire size instead of 2.

Oh, and we have also allowed Megacorps to open branch offices on other Megacorps... The influence cost is doubled when built on a planet owned by another Megacorp.

Mammalian Portraits​

Thanks, Gruntsatwork. Now a message from Content Design Lead @CGInglis :

And now my deer friends, one mooo-re surprise for you! The Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update brings ten paws-itively stunning new Mammalian portraits to the base game!

Mammalian Species Portraits

Glass of milk, standing in between extinction in the cold, and explosive radiating growth…



The Gremlin

A regal Hippopotaxeno

My, what big teeth you have.

The secrets of enlightenment are waiting.


Next Week​

Next week we’ll start talking about how Pops will change and might pull up the new Planet UI. Since the branch itself is still very full of placeholders, we’ll be using the design mockups while explaining the changes.

See you then!
 
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Burning trade for planet deficits sounds like a significant change to the economic model: depending on the cost of that, it might be more efficient to generate upkeep resources in-place, rather than fully specialize worlds.

Agrarian Idyll and Masterful Crafters will be very happy with that change, but maybe not everyone else. Regardless, I'd welcome a shakeup.

Designations might have to be revisited, though. I can imagine a few being mostly useless if the optimal strategy is to generate the upkeep resource in-place.
 
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Lots of juicy stuff! And mammal portraits too! Let's give it a bit of analysis:

> It is kind of a pity that we will never get actual trade routes, but that's the price to pay for increased performance, I guess.
> To the removal of the piracy system, I say good riddance
> Glad to see that trade policies will remain and thus, trade builds will still be possible. Nice.
> Super stoked about the whole branch office revamp. Will we get an improved corporate holdings tab? One can only hope!
> The criminal megacorp rework is amazing. I am excited to try it out!
> It seems that the logistic tax to trade value will be a very minor thing. That's good when it comes to fleet upkeep (the warfare system is not ready for splitting doomstacks yet), but I do think that having a heavier tax for planet logistics would make planet building far more interesting, with specialized planets requiring more trade, while jack of all trade planets would be a "safer" approach
> Alternatively, blockades could be easily simulated by tanking local trade production if a hostile fleet is present in its system. Well, baby steps, I guess
> I expected far more different stuff for Gestalts. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see them not getting axed features for once, but gestalts having outright trade value generated by maintenance drones seems super weird to me. Getting "logistic capacity" or "bartering capacity" out of navigation relay modules on starbases might be perhaps more fitting. Well, it's just a flavor thing, we will see how it feels once implemented. At least there are no gestalt merchants nor gestalt clerks (but a gestalt megacorp is surely intriguing!)
> Trade acting as a resource for buying things from the market makes so, so much sense.
> I do wonder if the economic system will remain largely the same, considering that resources are unchanged. We will have to wait for next week's DD in order to give it a more in-depth look!
 
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It would be really interesting if as a part of this rework you would consider increasing the number of megacorps which could have branch offices on a planet. Potentially basing the number of possible slots on the planetary capital or population. Or even the trade value. Would give more expansion opportunities than "exterminate all other mega corps"
 
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From what I see here, you will have to split "Trade" into Glactic Currency & Logistics Capacity eventually, because as of now is is a cluster-blorg.
But on the positive note I'm glad you finally followed my post form over 2 years ago about making trade the actual galactic currency.
Not to say it wasn't the most obvious change in the game...
 
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Stockpiling Trade and Using Trade in the Market


Could you ..well.. trade with "Trade"?

I.e.:
"Benevolent Robot Empire" floods the market with "NutriPaste™" food shortly after having conquered an organic empire, resulting in "Trade" food prices to plummet.
Could you then buy all the food you can get, wait for prices to normalize and then slowly sell the food again for more "Trade" than you bought it for?
 
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What is the difference between consumer goods and trade? Why not just only use consumer goods?

Second, can their be some sort of turf war on planets or ways for one megacorp to usurp the trading post from another without it being a whole galactic war?
 
Intresting. I don't think an upkeep cost will make you not doomstack, just cause more micro at best. You'll do whatever is necessary in order to win the battle and pay the cost.

If the upkeep costs are sufficiently high maybe there's some potential in this. War economy? Militarist upkeep reduction on enemy territory, pacifist increased upkeep but increased trade overall?
 
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I love the idea of trade upkeep on missing resources per planet and for fleet upkeep. I am however unsure about the ability to stockpile it. I know the stockpile is used for Galactic Market, but the stockpile would also render any fleet upkeep and planet upkeep meaningless, unless you decide to make Trade Deficit Situation happen regardless of the stockpile.

Cause ngl, it feels weird to stockpile the non-tangible resource to make a war campaign possible.

EDIT: New portraits are always a welcome addition! Will they work similarly to Machine Age portraits or not?
 
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I love the idea of ships costing trade upkeep. Would be nice to have the possibility to unlock ships with generative ecosystems that have no trade upkeep! Yes, this is a dangerous idea.
 
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Burning trade for planet deficits sounds like a significant change to the economic model: depending on the cost of that, it might be more efficient to generate upkeep resources in-place, rather than fully specialize worlds.

Agrarian Idyll and Masterful Crafters will be very happy with that change, but maybe not everyone else. Regardless, a shakeup is probably good.

Designations might have to be revisited, though. I can imagine a few being mostly useless if the optimal strategy is to generate the upkeep resource in-place.
I've posted elsewhere that my preference would be that most planets are the more generic designations like rural and a more flavourful "industrial" equivalent, with hellworlds as the exception rather than the rule - but still a very profitable exception on the right planet. If everything's a hellworld then nothing is, but any hellworld should be rewarded for going full hellworld.
 
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2 things:
What is the difference between consumer goods and trade? Why not just only use consumer goods?

Second, can their be some sort of turf war on planets or ways for one megacorp to usurp the trading post from another without it being a whole galactic war?

It appears that they are turning trade value into "logistics." Therefore, consumer goods are the finished goods that go to your pops homes or researchers labs, and trade value will be the logistics used to get them there. That's how I interpret it at least since undocked fleets and planetary deficits will consume trade value.
 
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This is absolutely an improvement over the old system. Though now that trade is a resource wholly decoupled from the old trade route system, I've got a couple questions.

1. What do the trade hubs/offworld trade companies/hyperlane registers do now that the route system has been axed?
2. Are there any plans to make a trade-focused kilostructure? Something like an interstellar trade hub that can be built on an otherwise useless barren planet to convert it entirely into a logistics hub?
 
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Rejoice, friends of bugs and bolts, for you too will be able to enjoy the benefits of trade starting with 4.0.
Could you STOP making empires more samey... FOR FIVE MINUTES?!

Seriously. First making Machines more similar to organics (to the point that Lithoids are almost universally more habitable somehow?) and now this?
 
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Oh so we're still converting trade value with the trade policies? That's interesting. Will this come with adjustments to the amounts of trade that are generated? Since we will be using them for planet logistics, fleet logistics, resource conversion, and trading on the market. Granted, we can also buy more from the market by selling.
 
Will these new Mammalian portraits have Cybernetic Ascension evolution "steps"? And out of curiosity are there any plans to add those steps to the portraits we already have? I like the new(er) default human portrait more than the cyberpunk one since that has some weird clipping with the clothes (and the visor just looks odd to me), curious to know if the Custodian team has any plans to make evolution steps for them or the other older portraits like Blorg, butterfly, etc.

Will we be able to buy and sell fleet basing rights to extend our/other empires logistics range?
 
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I find the new trade super elegant.
I know many liked the logistical complexity but I welcome the abstraction.

In particular I find it super cool that an "optimized" empire where each planet only produces one thing en masse will have to generate more trade to compensate. This creates a nice tradeoff.

Love the new mammals too.
 
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