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Stellaris Dev Diary #374 - Announcing the 3.99.0 "Phoenix" Open Beta

Surprise! An early Stellaris Dev Diary!

Last week I mentioned that on Friday we’d evaluate the current build, and I’d see if I could provide a timeline for the Open Beta. Things have been progressing well, so we’ve decided to put a very early version of some of the 4.0 changes to test a few aspects of the new systems.

The Stellaris 4.0 update changes a lot of things - you can find a lot of the details in the dev diaries of the last two months. This first build of the 3.99 Open Beta only contains a focused subset of the changes, and many are still in a work-in-progress prototype state. It is not polished, or even done yet.

The 3.11 Technology Open Beta very quickly found some performance issues with the Breakthrough Technologies that we were experimenting with, and as the pop systems have advanced far enough to be mostly functional, I want to get some broader gameplay done on that system in particular, even if the rest of the systems have not yet reached a fully playable state. A week of Open Beta gets more testing done than we can do internally over months, even if this isn’t at a level that I would historically have been comfortable releasing to the public. (Just so you know what you’re opting into!)

We also have a feedback survey available that focuses primarily on the Empire Timeline and Focus systems. (Later weeks will have new surveys on different topics.)

So What’s in the Build?​

Last week’s dev diary provides a fairly accurate update about the current state of the build.

Precursor Selection, the Databank, and Species Modification are all functional.

The Databank


Species Modification

The general game pacing adjustments, changes to galaxy generation, and notification changes are all in. The leader pacing changes are in, but we’re reviewing how leaders interact with the new economy before evaluating what changes to make to the traits themselves.

Empire Timeline and Focuses are in a functional, borderline releasable, state. We have added a number of Milestones that will appear on the Timeline, though there’s some polish we’re planning to do before release. Most of the basic Focus Tasks that we want are in, along with some of the Progression rewards for completing them.

Timeline and Empire Focus

The Trade and Logistic described in Dev Diary #369 are largely in, but some of the branch office changes and functionality are still on the to-do list.

Logistic Ship Upkeep in Friendly Space


Buying Energy in the Market


Basic implementation of Pop Groups and the new Job system are in. This includes simultaneous Pop Growth and Auto-Migration, a partial colonization UI, and a partial update to the Planet UI itself. The major economic changes relating to Districts, Zones, and Buildings are only partially in, but I wanted to get the pop changes under some pressure as soon as possible.

Current State of the Planet UI

We also renamed “Bonus Workforce” to “Job Efficiency”.

Any Known Issues or Things You Want to Tell Us?​

The Ship Designer, Hard Reset origin, and Mammalian portraits are all in separate development branches, and will not be appearing during the Open Beta.

This build of the Open Beta build will not support Gestalts, unusual planets like Habitats or Ringworlds, or especially unusual civics, origins, or playstyles. Many Ascensions may be in a strange or dysfunctional state. Since many of the more interesting civics and origins aren’t supported yet, we strongly recommend playing the United Nations of Earth or the Commonwealth of Man, or custom empires similar in complexity. Expect things like Virtuality or Clone Army to be fairly broken right now.

You will likely start with an Amenities shortage at the start of the game. We haven’t decided whether this models an overpopulated homeworld nicely or if we consider it a bug. (It will be less dire once more of the buildings are available.)

Significant parts of the planet UI are still in development, including most “flavor” elements.​


If you manually build a colony ship, it will not appear in the colonization UI. (They can still be used to colonize a planet by pressing the Colonize fleet order.)

How to Colonize if you manually built a Colony Ship

Since the Zones UI is still in progress, you cannot get access to the menu to replace them right now. You’re stuck with your Earth Space Age Industry for this build.

Earth

The Early Space Age zone doesn’t currently have any other buildings you can put into it, so being stuck with it is kind of unfun.

We have not yet updated the Diplomacy traditions to reflect that Form Federation is now a technology.

Clerks haven’t been annihilated yet, and many non-”core” jobs have not been fully converted into the new system. Traditions and other things that modify Clerks have not yet been updated.

Civilians are currently an uncapped job rather than being associated with City District development. Living standards have not yet been updated to provide bonuses to Civilians rather than Unemployed Pops.

Planetary Logistic Upkeep currently pays you Trade if you have surpluses. While it takes money to make money, that’s not exactly what we were going for.

The UI element on the Management tab that is intended to show the size change of each pop group since last month is always “- 0”

Defensive Armies don’t spawn, so every planet will immediately surrender when bombarded. (Ground combat fixed?)

Some strings may not be present, and some icons are placeholder purple. Many.

The Unemployment entry in the planet UI is a little overenthusiastic. Yes, pops grow into their parents’ strata and get upset if they can’t get a job worthy of their upbringing right away, but it shouldn’t be a pressing matter until their numbers get over 100.

The AI isn’t great at picking zones yet. It nods sagely at the first thing it finds that it can afford and decides it’s an offer it can’t refuse.

The base “colony” designation has not yet been removed. Our intention is for the Colonist jobs provided by the Reassembled Ship Shelter to provide the benefits of the old colony designation. (And will thus expire when you upgrade your planetary capital rather than when you reach a certain number of Pops.)

We can’t guarantee multiplayer stability on this build, but we have identified an immediate economic Out of Sync issue that occurs when Windows and non-Windows users are playing together.

Here are the release notes for this build:

Stellaris 3.99.0 ‘Phoenix’ Open Beta Release Notes​

Features​

  • Pops and Pop Groups
    • One of the biggest changes in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and one of the primary focuses of this Open Beta, is the new Pop system. Rather than being individuals, Pops are now grouped based on Species, Strata, Ethics, and Faction, mostly for calculation purposes. As part of this change, Pop numbers have been increased by a factor of 100, allowing more granular manipulation of Pops by various systems.
    • All Pop Groups on a planet have simultaneous growth every month following the existing Logistic Growth formulas.
      • Underrepresented pops are no longer given population growth bonuses.
      • Fractional growth is not retained from month to month - if a Pop Group would have fractional growth, it has a chance to gain 1 pop that month based on that fraction.
      • All migration is now handled through the auto-migration system rather than push and pull that previously affected pop growth.
      • As more granular and simultaneous pop growth is now possible, the minimum growth for small colonies has been removed. Early colonization will be extremely reliant on migration from the empire capital.
      • Open Beta Note: Xenocompatibility no longer produces hybrid pops, but has not yet been updated to pool all planetary species into a single group for logistic growth purposes. When this is complete, we are likely to remove the Xenocompatibility galaxy setup toggle.
    • A Civilian stratum has been added to represent the masses that do not generally contribute to the empire’s military economy.
      • Open Beta Note: Civilians are intended to replace Clerks, which will be removed in a future Open Beta update.
    • Empires now begin with 2000 more pops, most of whom will be Civilians.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #370.
  • Planet UI, Zones, Workforce, and Jobs
    • The other major economic change in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update is a revamp to how jobs work.
    • Rather than Districts and Buildings being especially similar, we are shifting to a model where:
      • Planets produce and consume resources through Jobs.
      • Districts provide Jobs based on their development. (Mining District: Add 200 Housing and 200 Miner jobs per development level.)
      • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by Districts. (Foundry Zone: Replace 200 Civilian jobs and 200 Housing with 100 Metallurgists per development level.)
        • Open Beta Note: Currently the Zones are simpler, and will just provide the jobs. It is our intention for most Zones to convert rather than add.
      • Buildings are planet-unique and change what the Jobs produce. (Mote Harvesters: Technicians now also produce Volatile Motes.)
      • Pops produce Workforce that fills up Jobs.
    • Open Beta Note: The Planet UI is still very much a work in progress.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #371.
  • Empire Focuses and Timeline
    • The Situation Log now contains a tab for the Empire Timeline, which keeps track of important milestones of your playthrough.
    • The Timeline tab also contains a set of Empire Focus Tasks, which are intended to assist players with forming short and medium terms that align with their empire’s nature, while reducing the randomness of the tech tree.
      • Empires can choose between Conquest, Exploration, and Development as their primary Empire Focuses. You will still gain Tasks from other categories, but they will generally be weighted towards your choice. Some Tasks are basic “Core” Tasks, and will provide progress along all three tracks.
      • Completing Tasks provides progress towards Guaranteed Technology unlocks that are considered critical for that playstyle. You still need to research the technologies, they only provide the research option when you reach progress milestones. If you already have the technology unlocked or as a permanent research option, there is no alternate reward.
      • Because Task completion is retroactive and there are no alternate rewards, there should be no benefit in waiting to complete any that you have.
      • Should you end up with a Task that you find uncompletable or that you do not wish to complete, you can discard it and gain a new Task for a small cost in Unity.
      • It is our intention that empires that behave consistent with their Empire Focus should naturally complete the Tasks of that category.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #368.
  • Trade has been revamped into a standard resource.
    • Trade is now used as the Market currency.
    • The Trade Routes system has been removed.
    • Ships now have logistical upkeep paid by Trade based on whether they are docked (free), friendly space (reduced), neutral space (normal), or hostile space (expensive).
      • Larger ships tend to have higher upkeep.
      • The multipliers based on location are set in defines.
      • Juggernauts do not have logistical upkeep, and reduce the logistical upkeep costs for ships in their system by 75%.
      • Resources blocks can now include a "logistics" block, which is currently only used by ships.
    • Planets now have logistical upkeep paid by Trade based on their local resource deficits. This represents the additional costs of diverting freighters to transport materials between planets.
      • Local deficit costs vary based largely on the base market value of the resources in question.
    • Trade Policies can set how much of your Net trade after logistics upkeep is converted into other resources.
    • Added galaxy setup sliders for Fleet Upkeep Logistics Costs and Planetary Deficit Logistics Costs.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #369.
  • The main help button now displays the Databank window where you can explore brief articles on many in-game concepts, reducing the need to navigate to external information sources.

Improvement​

  • Adjective leader trait names reverted, for example Inquisitor to Inquisitive
  • Colonization flow has been improved.
    • You can now pre-select a colony designation and turn on planet automation before colonizing a planet, which will apply when the planet has finished colonizing.
    • Colonization now completes when 100 colonists have grown or migrated to the new planet.
  • Significant improvements have been made to the Species UI.
    • One template per species can be set as the default template for that species, and other subspecies can be set to integrate over time into that default template.
      • Open Beta Note: Current rate of pop integration is likely to change to be slower as well as monthly.
    • The trait selection UI when creating a new template has been improved.
    • The special project window pops up and can be started immediately after creating a new template if desired. It is no longer absolutely necessary as you can use integration to slowly convert your existing pops.
  • The Habitable Worlds slider in game setup now has a 'Rare' setting. There will still be a handful of habitable worlds in the galaxy, mostly from special events and guaranteed habitable worlds. Normalized initializer spawn odds to use a handful of scripted variables.
  • Added galaxy precursor selection to game setup.
  • Leader Adjustments:
    • As part of our game pacing and interruption reduction pass, leaders now gain trait selection moments on even levels rather than every level.
    • Leader positions now have a significantly greater effect on what traits will appear when they level up and gain a new skill.
    • Increased the base number of leader traits to pick from on level up by 1. This is intended to reduce the chance of getting exclusively poor trait options without devaluing other sources of leader trait picks too much.
    • Added an "Auto Select Leader Traits by Default" option to game settings, which defaults to Off. On game start or if you switch to an empire, it will toggle the setting on the Leaders tab to your selection. In Coop empires, this override only applies when the primary player of the country joins it. Changing the setting mid-game will not have any effect unless you switch countries.
  • Significant improvements have been made to Message and Notification settings, providing you much more control over how you receive them.
    • Updated the default message settings
      • Revised strategic resource messages and added toast notifications
      • Changed trader events into notifications with unique icons. Added sound effect.
      • Anomaly discoveries now appear in a toast rather than popping up in the center of the screen.
      • Patron Newsletter event was changed into a notification
      • The Terraforming Candidate Discovered Event is now a notification
      • Order Restored event is now a notification
      • Governing Ethic Shift event has been turned into a toast
      • Faction Formed Events now appear as toasts following the first event
      • Added additional event options to Corrupt Administration event and turned it into a notification
      • The Toxic Terraforming Candidate Discovered Event is now a notification
      • Changed Inter-Dimensional trade increases event into a notification
  • Added concept tooltips to the left Navigation Bar
  • Added the Celestial Orrery system
  • Transport ships can now use cloaking
  • The Ruler Stratum has been renamed the Elite Stratum, to better differentiate them from the actual Empire Ruler
  • The system fleet icon tooltip now shows the total of the fleets' military power listed by that icon, at the top.
  • Added unique event options and localization for new life discovered events
  • Reduced spammy First Contact events
  • First Colony event - Added unique event options and rewards for Ethics
  • Adjusted mass extinction event chain localization and picture
  • The Betrayal event has been revamped to include multiple options
  • Renamed government tab to overview in outliner
  • Reduced the frequency of the Rise of the Manifesti event chain
  • Added missing reward to fanatic materialist for Comet Sighted event
  • Improved readability for event Covenant Formed
  • Changed Storm Spotted alert sound to something less intrusive
  • The low habitability popup now clearly highlights the negative effects
  • Added the two new Society technologies Federation Code and Existential Campaigns
  • Ironman mode is no longer required to earn most Stellaris achievements. An unmodified game checksum remains a requirement, and the use of any debug commands blocks them.
    • The "Victorious" achievement has been changed to "Win the game through any victory condition in Ironman mode."
    • Open Beta Note: Pop related achievements have not yet been updated.
  • Several changes to the starbase UI to improve game flow and overall interaction
  • Reworked Starbase window to harmonize naming and tooltips
  • You are 4x as attractive as you were before.

Balance​

  • FE and Cosmogenesis Escort ships now have the same evasion value of 50
  • Changed Curator Insight cost to empire size
  • The Eternal Vigilance Ascension Perk can now be acquired early if you complete the Unyielding Tradition Tree.
  • Adjusted Anomaly spawn rates to improve the pacing of the early game.
  • Added more variance to whether or not prescripted systems will or will not appear in a given game. (They won't all appear in every single game anymore.)

Bugfix​

  • Fixed the issue of fleets failing to retreat from lost combat if the last ship failed to disengage.
  • Human Pre-FTL societies now obey the Pre-FTL Civilizations game settings slider.
  • Fixed a script error that was causing far more habitable planets to spawn in the galaxy than expected. Feel free to increase the Habitable Worlds slider if you prefer the old behavior.
  • Fixed inconsistent capitalisation causing issues with pre-ftl pop generation
  • Cleaned up the end-game crisis triggers. The Unbidden will no longer be the only ones to show up early to the party.
  • Fix triggers to properly give Fissile Cores, the unique mutation for crystalline entities
  • Treasure Hunters AIs now correctly go through the dialog events
  • Fix Black Needle country spawning starbases
  • Fixed too many AI empires being generated in coop games.
  • Fixed the tooltip for obtaining the Mirror of Knowledge from the Infinity Machine not mentioning the 200 influence it also gives you
  • Amenities icon fixed for Drone Storage and Hive Warren
  • checks if planet owner is primitive before applying sector or system bonuses
  • Set the nanotech ascension path interdictors to use different ship models from the swarmers
  • Spitter Gun mutations have armor penetration
  • Missiles mutations have numerals corresponding to tier in icons
  • Nanite Infused Barb mutation requires nanites to build
  • Ancient Driller Beasts mutations uses 88 as its M size cost
  • Neutron Throwers mutation damage buff
  • Blocked anomalies from spawning on the neutron star for Slingshot to the Stars' quantum catapult
  • Handled dyson sphere flags on dismantling swarm while upgrading
  • Fixed a broken tooltip inside of the "Extended Shifts" edict.
  • Clone Soldier Ascendants can now cyberize
  • Completing Inhibit Self-Deterministic AIs removes it from the situation log
  • Fix the possibility to build multiple Grand Archives at the same time
  • Only display relevant modifiers for Space Fauna ships in tooltips
  • Reanimated space fauna ships cannot upgrade no matter what
  • Black Needle fleet now correctly spawns to defend their base from bombardment
  • Destroy Gravity Snare when there's no valid target anymore
  • Broken Shackles check added for relevant Galcom events
  • Strip Mine Decision is no longer available on artificial planets
  • Inspired Rhetoric will no longer display a placeholder icon
  • Fixed situations start value being added multiple times.
  • Special system initializers now respect the habitable worlds slider in game setup (to a degree).
  • Planetary part of ringworlds no longer take on empire color
  • First Contact was changed into a toast and once again shows the correct localization
  • Added missing pre sapient loc string
  • The dismantle button has regained its missing loc string
  • Resolved scope error caused by toast target scope being set to root
  • Advanced start empires can no longer have mining stations over resources they do not have tech for

AI​

  • Fixed Prethoryn Scourge incorrectly calculating target priority for non-edible pops.

UI/UX​

  • Added an Assign Leader button to the leaders screen that lists available positions.
  • Fixed it not being possible to build starbases in systems with non-central stars from the galaxy view (when a construction ship is selected).
  • Added a message setting button in event popup windows.
  • Hid details that aren't relevant for all species in the galaxy when the Galaxy tab is selected in the Species view.
  • Updated the message settings screen to give more space for the message list.
  • Changed auto-unpause on the message settings screen from a spinner to a checkbox.
  • Adjusted centering of text and icons in toast windows. If a toast with custom description has no icon associated with the custom description, the description will now fill the entire lower section of the toast.

Localization​

  • Add tooltip to Cutholoid Hunter modifier
  • Add tooltip to Voidworm Hunter modifier
  • Turn reanimated cutholoids and voidworms ship size name consistent with other reanimated Space Fauna

Modding​

  • Open Beta Note: We’re still working on Zones and Buildings, and will likely change how we do some of this to be a bit friendlier. Don’t update your mods based on what you see in this build.
  • Add `resettle_pop_group` effect that allows to resettle a specified portion of a pop group to a target planet
  • Add first iteration of `create_pop_group` effect
  • Add kill_pop_group effect that takes a pop group and an amount or percentage and instantly kills them
  • Add `transfer_pop_amount` effect that transfers pops from a pop group to another
  • Removed unused can_resettle_planet game rule and renamed can_resettle_planet_no_owner_check to can_resettle_planet.
  • Removed can_colonize_with_pop game rule and moved its checks to can_colonize_with_species.
  • Added the script effect "copy_traditions_from = { target = FROM exceptions = { tradition1 tradition 2 } }" that copies tradition from a target country into the scoped country
  • Added "add_ascension_perk" and "remove_ascension_perk" effects, scope must be a country, adds or removed the specified perk syntax: add/remove_ascension_perk = perk_key
  • Added "copy_ascension_perks_from" effect: Copies the Ascension Perks of the target country into the scoped country. They are added to the existing perks, and the potential/possible triggers are respected. The perks listed in the exceptions list are not copied. copy_ascension_perks_from = { target = FROM exceptions = { perk1 perk2 } }
  • Added "remove_tradition" effect. Remove the target tradition from the scoped Country. remove_tradition = tradition_key
  • Added effect "remove_tradition_tree" Remove the target tradition tree from the scoped Country. remove_tradition_tree = tradition_category_key
  • Added spawn_design to static galaxy system data, which forces a specific design to spawn in the system.
  • Added gamesetup_settings script for configuring the settings list in game setup.
  • There is now an event_message_type in events that lets you override the default message type EVENT_MESSAGE_TYPE. This can e.g. provide separate message settings.
  • Scripted loc can now be used in concept tooltips and the top bar tooltips.
  • New on_action on_favor_gained that gets triggered when a country receives a favor.
  • Added the used_defense_platform_capacity_percent trigger, letting you check how much of a starbases defensive platform capacity is used.
  • Message notification background is now separated from the message type icon.
  • New on_action on_research_option_added that gets triggered every time a new permanent research option is acquired.
  • The actual script file and line are now printed when there are errors logged in scripted triggers and scripted effects, in addition to the previously available information.
  • kill_pop has been replaced with kill_pop_group. For ease of use kill_single_pop and kill_all_pop scripted effects have been made.
  • Replaced resettle_pop with resettle_pop_group.
  • Added "playme" console command as shorthand for human_ai and ai_ignore_was_human.

Okay, How Do I Opt Into the Beta?​

If you’re ready for a confusing, possibly frustrating, and unfinished experience, and you’re on Steam, you can opt into the Open Beta.

  1. Turn off your mods. They will almost certainly cause you to crash.
  2. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> Betas -> select "stellaris_test - 3.99.0 Open Beta" branch in the Beta Participation dropdown.

Game Properties in Steam


Steps to Test

What’s Next?​

We expect that the next Open Beta update, 3.99.1, will have Civilians in a more complete state, and more of the UI and AI should be in place. Buildings, Zones, and Jobs should also have more progress too.

Our next Dev Diary will be on Thursday, March 20th, but I hope to have an update to the Open Beta before the weekend.


 
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didn't they say they hadn't implemented that part of the leader change yet? That's how I read the dairy anyways.
At first glance, it seemed that way. I went through rereading some of the diaries even current one. I didn't find anything stating they hadn't implemented this or not. If they didn't mean to implement this yet, then I found a bug. If this was supposed to be included then it must be under the section regarding Origins and Civics that have yet to receive attention/unsupported in current beta test. To me, it's either a bug or UOR has yet to be supported with current beta test. I'm hoping it's a mix of the two or that UOR isn't supported in current Beta build.
 
Ok, I know what I said before, but it's now getting annoying that it's impossible to eliminate unemployment. If its intended that growing pops outside of the citizen strata should become unemployed, then the UI needs to be updated because constantly having the unemployed tag on all my planets is driving me to do nothing but make more jobs to fix the 'problem' if not, there needs to be some work put in here.

At first glance, it seemed that way. I went through rereading some of the diaries even current one. I didn't find anything stating they hadn't implemented this or not. If they didn't mean to implement this yet, then I found a bug.
The bellow quotes are what I was thinking about, both from this very post.
This build of the Open Beta build will not support Gestalts, unusual planets like Habitats or Ringworlds, or especially unusual civics, origins, or playstyles.
the leader pacing changes are in, but we’re reviewing how leaders interact with the new economy before evaluating what changes to make to the traits themselves.
They seem to suggest that UOR and changes to leader traits have not been updated. though they have changed how often leaders get traits.
 
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It's all disgusting. If the game is going to be like this, then you don't have to play it anymore.
It also looks, very messy. Sure it's early alpha for this but the new UI looks way worse than the currently existing one. But nothing anyone says will keep Eladrin from wrecking havoc on the game as he has so far to the applause of a small but very vocal group on the forum who wanted this game to be CK2 in space since it came out.
 
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So far it's a struggle to play the beta. In my first attempt I locked myself into a death spiral and ended my empire in about 7 years. The issues are amenities and consumer goods. You produce far too little in the current beta. I thought the early industrial zone was going to supply 100 artisan and metallurgist jobs per city district. But it doesn't, making this change will take the pressure off in the early game. Also I suggest adding a small amount of amenities to civilians since they're going to effectively replace clerks. Otherwise players are forced to make an amenities zone which in the current version will then take them into negative consumer goods. Then they have to try and rely on the small amount of trade they make to keep them from a consumer goods shortage. They also need to spend trade to make sure they can colonize a second planet. Without spending trade to buy resources, with the current production it will take decades for them to colonize a second planet. In my most recent game I was making 1 consumer good a month and 4 alloys. Making the early industrial zone provide those vital jobs will be a big improvement. I'd even suggest removing the current research jobs from city districts. Which I guess are being provided by the early industrial zone. Instead give the player a research lab in their government zone. Consumer goods and alloys are more important than researchers in the early game.
 
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14. Population started shrinking each month in a death-spiral (no indication why this is happening just jobs start getting emptier and emptier, losing about 5 specialists a month with 5770 free housing, no crime, 51% stability even with a unity deficit and every remaining pop producing unity... very strange... just moved to positive unity production to see if it was a new shortage effect but still losing pops at the same rate, odd)
Having the same issue, tried to have everything positive (had to shuffle pops around because they *really* didn't want to be enforcers or laborers, thus initially causing a high crime rate and deficit of consumer goods until I personally stepped in), but now I have less than a thousand on my homeworld and dropping by 8 every month (was 20 before but the robot production is cutting into the losses, but I guess they will terminate themselves once the last pop is dead like they did for you...)
 
Wow, such helpful feedback.

Wow, such helpful feedback. This isn't going to change anyone's mind. All it'll do is make you look like a dumdumb. What is it that you don't like? Why don't you like it? How can it be improved?
Nothing anyone says is going to change Eladrins mind, that's already been shown with the leader rework and reintroduction of the cap. Which then took ages to fix because it didn't work in any way shape or form.

But here, let me try.

- The new UI is messy as hell. While this is a work in progress it's more obtuse, has more sub windows, looks less clean ad optimized and is more opaque than ever before in the history of Stellaris. And for absolutely no good reason. This seems like a change solely to change things. It's throwing out almost 10 years of UI improvements and optimization, stream lining and making them more easy to manage.

- The change to Population numbers and how they function don't look convincing to me. It's similar to what we have already, except now it has a a multiplier of several thousand to make "big number".

- The trade work just adds yet another resource, one we prior didn't have to directly deal with which pulls double duty as logistics. Past lead devs/devs explained that Energy Credits were meant to symbolize all these things and be the universal currency. This adds complexity solely for the sake of complexity.

- At large these are such sweeping changes to the game that this might as well be a new game entirely. Which feels like the culmination of the current dev teams attempt to put their own stamp onto Stellaris, erode it's identity and turn it more into CKII/another Paradox title they prefer.
 
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Anyone on a Mac successfully update?

I had to reboot my M4 based mini for the update to progress. Oddly restarting Steam was not enough. An anonymous redditor suggested it as sometimes Steam is flaky and bouncing Steam does not clear it up. Who knows, now its my turn to help stomp bugs
 
I guess I will start off with, what do I need energy for? As in, starting off my normal routine is to schedule automatic buy and sell of resources. This is doubly important now as that trade is the currency used and starting out with 2 (yes, TWO) for my DA empire means I cannot exactly buy anything. Hence there is this clumsy process where I need to schedule automatic selling of energy to convert to trade to turn around and buy minerals or alloys that I would normally buy. I call it clumsy because it introduces a step that should not be there let alone the twice over conversion to buy resources as the energy does not covert 1 to 1 meaning I have no real idea of what a resource really costs unless I want to whip out my algebra book.
 
Having the same issue, tried to have everything positive (had to shuffle pops around because they *really* didn't want to be enforcers or laborers, thus initially causing a high crime rate and deficit of consumer goods until I personally stepped in), but now I have less than a thousand on my homeworld and dropping by 8 every month (was 20 before but the robot production is cutting into the losses, but I guess they will terminate themselves once the last pop is dead like they did for you...)
Sounds fun, are they moving to other worlds or just outright vanishing? And I'm curious about something else. Does this force you to have as many growth sources as possible, since all of them now can "grow at the same time", or does it distribute the growth across the board. I.e is mono race play going to suffer?
 
I guess I will start off with, what do I need energy for? As in, starting off my normal routine is to schedule automatic buy and sell of resources. This is doubly important now as that trade is the currency used and starting out with 2 (yes, TWO) for my DA empire means I cannot exactly buy anything. Hence there is this clumsy process where I need to schedule automatic selling of energy to convert to trade to turn around and buy minerals or alloys that I would normally buy. I call it clumsy because it introduces a step that should not be there let alone the twice over conversion to buy resources as the energy does not covert 1 to 1 meaning I have no real idea of what a resource really costs unless I want to whip out my algebra book.
Almost like Energy Credits were for that purpose. And now we have a new artificial extra step that costs you extra time. Oh, and you also have to pay the market tax twice.
 
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Then they have to try and rely on the small amount of trade they make to keep them from a consumer goods shortage.
I've had no more problems with negative income compared to previous games. Buying a few hundred consumer goods every couple years doesn't really hurt me, and I don't have to worry about killing my energy income to much, as I can now use trade to tweak that as well. seems to be pretty good. I am playing the base UNE, so I'm guessing there are interactions with less supported origins or civics. but playing very vanilla as they said the balance isn't that badly off. I'm guessing many people with this problem choose to go with something spicier for their first empire.
- The trade work just adds yet another resource, one we prior didn't have to directly deal with which pulls double duty as logistics. Past lead devs/devs explained that Energy Credits were meant to symbolize all these things and be the universal currency. This adds complexity solely for the sake of complexity.
100% hard disagree. Not having to deal with trade routes or any of that content is very, very nice. It being a trade focused resource makes dealing with the market so much easier for me. AND I can properly buy up everything I need to get this going.
DA empire means I cannot exactly buy anything
Uhm:
This build of the Open Beta build will not support Gestalts, unusual planets like Habitats or Ringworlds, or especially unusual civics, origins, or playstyles.
Driven Assimilators are not supported in the current Beta. Explicitly stated by the devis at the top of the forum. So no, I'd expect DA empire would fail.
I guess I will start off with, what do I need energy for?
A lot of small maintenance, feels like they went too far in the right direction with it. But something to balance. For me, this is very nice because before 4.0 the most common death spiral for me was energy. I'd suddenly be using 50 or a 100 a month and nothing I'd do would fix the problem until collapse was the only problem. Mainly because every new thing I built would require energy. And I'd need that energy for the inevitable CG deficit. and to fast build those ships to stave off war. and Of course, I also needed it for the machine pops, and also for the space stations needed to get more resources in the first place. Also the ships. yes, war was effectively a giant 'kill me now' button before year 50 at best. Even defensive wars if only for the massive loss of energy.

Really, energy was doing too much in the past. Hopefully its balanced right by the end of the beta, but this is a good first step for me.
 
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Please look into ground combat improvements and graphics at some point in the future! The more Streamlined and accessible it looks, the more options and enjoyment can be had with space and ground scenarios.
 
Sounds fun, are they moving to other worlds or just outright vanishing? And I'm curious about something else. Does this force you to have as many growth sources as possible, since all of them now can "grow at the same time", or does it distribute the growth across the board. I.e is mono race play going to suffer?
They just disappeared into nothing. I had no other colonies, no other empires contacted, and no matter what I did pops kept disappearing.

25 years into the game, I got the game over screen because my last bio and robot pop was gone.

All I know is I had -10% pop growth as a trait, and I had the cybernetic creed origin (it shouldn't be one of the "too complex for the update", should it?)
 
Please look into ground combat improvements and graphics at some point in the future! The more Streamlined and accessible it looks, the more options and enjoyment can be had with space and ground scenarios.
given how many times its been said to be low priority and not in the plans, its not happening anytime soon. I'm pretty sure ground combat has been raised sense launch and every dev team has said they don't have plans for it.
All I know is I had -10% pop growth as a trait, and I had the cybernetic creed origin (it shouldn't be one of the "too complex for the update", should it?)
I wonder if you managed negative growth rate? Sounds like a bug to me. might avoid that trait for now.
 
I wonder if you managed negative growth rate? Sounds like a bug to me. might avoid that trait for now.
I'll give it a try with cyber creed without the trait to see if it's an issue with the origin or not.

Update: It was not an issue with the trait. It's either Cyber Creed, or Megacorp.

Update #2: It seems to have been an issue with Cyber Creed. Started as a Megacorp but with Prosperious Unification, pops grow by ~1 or 2 every month, rather than declining.
 
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Having the same issue, tried to have everything positive (had to shuffle pops around because they *really* didn't want to be enforcers or laborers, thus initially causing a high crime rate and deficit of consumer goods until I personally stepped in), but now I have less than a thousand on my homeworld and dropping by 8 every month (was 20 before but the robot production is cutting into the losses, but I guess they will terminate themselves once the last pop is dead like they did for you...)
They just disappeared into nothing. I had no other colonies, no other empires contacted, and no matter what I did pops kept disappearing.

25 years into the game, I got the game over screen because my last bio and robot pop was gone.

All I know is I had -10% pop growth as a trait, and I had the cybernetic creed origin (it shouldn't be one of the "too complex for the update", should it?)

The entire population randomly declining (organics and then robots) is a rather large problem. I don't know what triggered it for me, and it had been going on for quite some time before I knew what was going wrong to load an earlier save.

I had also researched robots (one of the buildings could be buggy?)
I started with the basic prosperous unification origin and bonus growth pop traits and basic civics of meritocracy and the diplomacy one, looking for anything that didn't add or change jobs.

Perhaps closing all the highest strata jobs removed Elites as a possible pop-group (my politicians were technically specialists), then any pops that end up in that strata start declining? I'm guessing as I don't know what I did to trigger it. If anyone can trigger it reliably it's worth a bug report.

Also I am curious what will eventually be added to replace the old job weight system that has been removed because it's currently pure chaos concerning workforce allocation.

Sounds fun, are they moving to other worlds or just outright vanishing? And I'm curious about something else. Does this force you to have as many growth sources as possible, since all of them now can "grow at the same time", or does it distribute the growth across the board. I.e is mono race play going to suffer?
For me I only had one world when they were vanishing, so nothing to do with migration. Also the UI for pop growth doesn't exist yet so it's a bit hard to see what is going on or how the numbers work yet.

- The new UI is messy as hell. While this is a work in progress it's more obtuse, has more sub windows, looks less clean ad optimized and is more opaque than ever before in the history of Stellaris. And for absolutely no good reason. This seems like a change solely to change things. It's throwing out almost 10 years of UI improvements and optimization, stream lining and making them more easy to manage.

- The change to Population numbers and how they function don't look convincing to me. It's similar to what we have already, except now it has a a multiplier of several thousand to make "big number".
Your post is perhaps a little too harsh in places, but even so I still agree with the above. The UI/UX changes could use several months more work and many more iterations. It is a work in progress but for me it has the look of a castle built on sand.

Ideally I'd try to work out what information players need to see to determine their next actions:
What is this world good at? How full is it? What sort of creatures live here? What more does it need? What can I do next here?

Once you know what players need to see try to display ALL the information needed on one screen so they don't have to jump between tabs constantly. Use extra screens for advanced details, graphs and spreadsheet type stuff or to tinker with things like automation settings. And the decision to make all the numbers two digits longer hurts my eyes (and my soul - I like the elegance of small round numbers).
 
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Having played with it for about two hours, I'm finding the new District/Zone/Building mechanic very iffy. I was actually very excited when I first read about it. I thought it sounded like a good system. In practice however, I'm not sure how I feel.

If we ignore the fact that we're down one City Zone on our homeworld (As that will eventually change), the system feels stifling and difficult to manage. At the start of the game now, you seem to be in an automatic Consumer Goods and Amenities shortage, and incredibly low on Alloys. This means of your three starting City Zones, you're basically locked into a Factory, Amenities , and Foundry Zone. Amenities needing their own Zone is already an issue in my opinion, and should be a resource produced entirely by buildings (Unless it becomes a Universal and not just Planet resource). However the fact that you're starting in such a deficit, and the only way to fix these deficits are to use up one of your very limited resources (Zones) makes the system feel like it's entirely restricting your gameplay.

The only way the system will work, is if City Districts provide everything (Except the basic resources) your Planet needs. I would honestly have the City District only provide enough Factory and Entertainment jobs to supply the planet with just enough of those to survive, or at least a small deficit. The Government Admin building (Which every planet will have) should then give a few Researcher, Politician, Enforcer, and Bureaucrat jobs. Zones would then be able to be what I thought they were supposed to be originally, an add-on to customize what that City District will look like.

I know this is obviously very early testing, however there's so much that doesn't seem to work that I'm not quite sure what I'm testing. Most of the buildings you can build in the main City Zone don't seem to do anything. They give benefits like "+X% Output To Y" but those buildings feel like they should be tied to their specific Zone, since they're not giving you any extra jobs. Even the Monument doesn't look like it gives you Culture Worker jobs as it should.

Over all, I still want to be excited by the 4.0 changes. On paper, I love the systems and the point of Open Beta is for people to give feedback. Maybe once I get more time to play after work, get more tech, ect the game will feel a bit better. At the moment though, the new system feels less like the nesting egg of customization I originally thought it was (District -> Changed by Zones -> Changed by Buildings) and is instead a more rigid system that feels like it took more away than it added.
 
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100% hard disagree. Not having to deal with trade routes or any of that content is very, very nice. It being a trade focused resource makes dealing with the market so much easier for me. AND I can properly buy up everything I need to get this going.
Trade routes being gone is a positive, however it's not tied to introduce trade as a new resources doing double duty, at all. Prior trade would automatically be exchanged to energy/consumer goods/unity. Now you need to actually buy trade with energy, then buy whatever other resources you need. Meaning you'll pay the market fee twice in all likelihood.

As for being able to buy up everything one needs, that was entirely possible already? Except without an additional in between step that is now required to do so.
 
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For me I only had one world when they were vanishing, so nothing to do with migration. Also the UI for pop growth doesn't exist yet so it's a bit hard to see what is going on or how the numbers work yet.


Your post is perhaps a little too harsh in places, but even so I still agree with the above. The UI/UX changes could use several months more work and many more iterations. It is a work in progress but for me it has the look of a castle built on sand.

Ideally I'd try to work out what information players need to see to determine their next actions:
What is this world good at? How full is it? What sort of creatures live here? What more does it need? What can I do next here?

Once you know what players need to see try to display ALL the information needed on one screen so they don't have to jump between tabs constantly. Use extra screens for advanced details, graphs and spreadsheet type stuff or to tinker with things like automation settings. And the decision to make all the numbers two digits longer hurts my eyes (and my soul - I like the elegance of small round numbers).
Interesting, I presume they'll fix it. If all pops can now grow equally though that might be a huge issue for mono race empires and I've not seen that being addressed anywhere.

As for my post being too harsh. I disagree. In the last year or so the forum has basically turned into a one sided cheer squad. There's no criticism for even the worst changes anymore, nothing is allowed to be doubted or not seen as positive and the same handful of people will mass downvote anyone who dares not give Eladrin standing ovations as he takes a sledgehammer to the game he inherited and wrecks havoc on it.

The new UI is a good example. While this is early stages and likely to change. It's making things more complicated, adding more nestled menus, and adding bloat while looking way less optimized. It's throwing out almost ten years of development and optimization for the sake of doing so wth few benefits. The same applies to the trade change.

Even if we deduct logistics from trade. I don't think trade needed to become a resource that is being stockpiled and handled in it's own right. It adds an extra step and click to buying goods from the market and other places that isn't really bringing any benefit. If you want to buy something, you now have to sell for example your energy credits, then buy it via trade. Being taxed twice all the while.

Nobody of the people left o the forum is questioning how sensible this is and how this adds extra work and changes the balance of the trade market. Most of the people who used to do so seem to have left in the last 1-2 years.
 
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