• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #374 - Announcing the 3.99.0 "Phoenix" Open Beta

Surprise! An early Stellaris Dev Diary!

Last week I mentioned that on Friday we’d evaluate the current build, and I’d see if I could provide a timeline for the Open Beta. Things have been progressing well, so we’ve decided to put a very early version of some of the 4.0 changes to test a few aspects of the new systems.

The Stellaris 4.0 update changes a lot of things - you can find a lot of the details in the dev diaries of the last two months. This first build of the 3.99 Open Beta only contains a focused subset of the changes, and many are still in a work-in-progress prototype state. It is not polished, or even done yet.

The 3.11 Technology Open Beta very quickly found some performance issues with the Breakthrough Technologies that we were experimenting with, and as the pop systems have advanced far enough to be mostly functional, I want to get some broader gameplay done on that system in particular, even if the rest of the systems have not yet reached a fully playable state. A week of Open Beta gets more testing done than we can do internally over months, even if this isn’t at a level that I would historically have been comfortable releasing to the public. (Just so you know what you’re opting into!)

We also have a feedback survey available that focuses primarily on the Empire Timeline and Focus systems. (Later weeks will have new surveys on different topics.)

So What’s in the Build?​

Last week’s dev diary provides a fairly accurate update about the current state of the build.

Precursor Selection, the Databank, and Species Modification are all functional.

The Databank


Species Modification

The general game pacing adjustments, changes to galaxy generation, and notification changes are all in. The leader pacing changes are in, but we’re reviewing how leaders interact with the new economy before evaluating what changes to make to the traits themselves.

Empire Timeline and Focuses are in a functional, borderline releasable, state. We have added a number of Milestones that will appear on the Timeline, though there’s some polish we’re planning to do before release. Most of the basic Focus Tasks that we want are in, along with some of the Progression rewards for completing them.

Timeline and Empire Focus

The Trade and Logistic described in Dev Diary #369 are largely in, but some of the branch office changes and functionality are still on the to-do list.

Logistic Ship Upkeep in Friendly Space


Buying Energy in the Market


Basic implementation of Pop Groups and the new Job system are in. This includes simultaneous Pop Growth and Auto-Migration, a partial colonization UI, and a partial update to the Planet UI itself. The major economic changes relating to Districts, Zones, and Buildings are only partially in, but I wanted to get the pop changes under some pressure as soon as possible.

Current State of the Planet UI

We also renamed “Bonus Workforce” to “Job Efficiency”.

Any Known Issues or Things You Want to Tell Us?​

The Ship Designer, Hard Reset origin, and Mammalian portraits are all in separate development branches, and will not be appearing during the Open Beta.

This build of the Open Beta build will not support Gestalts, unusual planets like Habitats or Ringworlds, or especially unusual civics, origins, or playstyles. Many Ascensions may be in a strange or dysfunctional state. Since many of the more interesting civics and origins aren’t supported yet, we strongly recommend playing the United Nations of Earth or the Commonwealth of Man, or custom empires similar in complexity. Expect things like Virtuality or Clone Army to be fairly broken right now.

You will likely start with an Amenities shortage at the start of the game. We haven’t decided whether this models an overpopulated homeworld nicely or if we consider it a bug. (It will be less dire once more of the buildings are available.)

Significant parts of the planet UI are still in development, including most “flavor” elements.​


If you manually build a colony ship, it will not appear in the colonization UI. (They can still be used to colonize a planet by pressing the Colonize fleet order.)

How to Colonize if you manually built a Colony Ship

Since the Zones UI is still in progress, you cannot get access to the menu to replace them right now. You’re stuck with your Earth Space Age Industry for this build.

Earth

The Early Space Age zone doesn’t currently have any other buildings you can put into it, so being stuck with it is kind of unfun.

We have not yet updated the Diplomacy traditions to reflect that Form Federation is now a technology.

Clerks haven’t been annihilated yet, and many non-”core” jobs have not been fully converted into the new system. Traditions and other things that modify Clerks have not yet been updated.

Civilians are currently an uncapped job rather than being associated with City District development. Living standards have not yet been updated to provide bonuses to Civilians rather than Unemployed Pops.

Planetary Logistic Upkeep currently pays you Trade if you have surpluses. While it takes money to make money, that’s not exactly what we were going for.

The UI element on the Management tab that is intended to show the size change of each pop group since last month is always “- 0”

Defensive Armies don’t spawn, so every planet will immediately surrender when bombarded. (Ground combat fixed?)

Some strings may not be present, and some icons are placeholder purple. Many.

The Unemployment entry in the planet UI is a little overenthusiastic. Yes, pops grow into their parents’ strata and get upset if they can’t get a job worthy of their upbringing right away, but it shouldn’t be a pressing matter until their numbers get over 100.

The AI isn’t great at picking zones yet. It nods sagely at the first thing it finds that it can afford and decides it’s an offer it can’t refuse.

The base “colony” designation has not yet been removed. Our intention is for the Colonist jobs provided by the Reassembled Ship Shelter to provide the benefits of the old colony designation. (And will thus expire when you upgrade your planetary capital rather than when you reach a certain number of Pops.)

We can’t guarantee multiplayer stability on this build, but we have identified an immediate economic Out of Sync issue that occurs when Windows and non-Windows users are playing together.

Here are the release notes for this build:

Stellaris 3.99.0 ‘Phoenix’ Open Beta Release Notes​

Features​

  • Pops and Pop Groups
    • One of the biggest changes in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, and one of the primary focuses of this Open Beta, is the new Pop system. Rather than being individuals, Pops are now grouped based on Species, Strata, Ethics, and Faction, mostly for calculation purposes. As part of this change, Pop numbers have been increased by a factor of 100, allowing more granular manipulation of Pops by various systems.
    • All Pop Groups on a planet have simultaneous growth every month following the existing Logistic Growth formulas.
      • Underrepresented pops are no longer given population growth bonuses.
      • Fractional growth is not retained from month to month - if a Pop Group would have fractional growth, it has a chance to gain 1 pop that month based on that fraction.
      • All migration is now handled through the auto-migration system rather than push and pull that previously affected pop growth.
      • As more granular and simultaneous pop growth is now possible, the minimum growth for small colonies has been removed. Early colonization will be extremely reliant on migration from the empire capital.
      • Open Beta Note: Xenocompatibility no longer produces hybrid pops, but has not yet been updated to pool all planetary species into a single group for logistic growth purposes. When this is complete, we are likely to remove the Xenocompatibility galaxy setup toggle.
    • A Civilian stratum has been added to represent the masses that do not generally contribute to the empire’s military economy.
      • Open Beta Note: Civilians are intended to replace Clerks, which will be removed in a future Open Beta update.
    • Empires now begin with 2000 more pops, most of whom will be Civilians.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #370.
  • Planet UI, Zones, Workforce, and Jobs
    • The other major economic change in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update is a revamp to how jobs work.
    • Rather than Districts and Buildings being especially similar, we are shifting to a model where:
      • Planets produce and consume resources through Jobs.
      • Districts provide Jobs based on their development. (Mining District: Add 200 Housing and 200 Miner jobs per development level.)
      • Zones manipulate what Jobs are provided by Districts. (Foundry Zone: Replace 200 Civilian jobs and 200 Housing with 100 Metallurgists per development level.)
        • Open Beta Note: Currently the Zones are simpler, and will just provide the jobs. It is our intention for most Zones to convert rather than add.
      • Buildings are planet-unique and change what the Jobs produce. (Mote Harvesters: Technicians now also produce Volatile Motes.)
      • Pops produce Workforce that fills up Jobs.
    • Open Beta Note: The Planet UI is still very much a work in progress.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #371.
  • Empire Focuses and Timeline
    • The Situation Log now contains a tab for the Empire Timeline, which keeps track of important milestones of your playthrough.
    • The Timeline tab also contains a set of Empire Focus Tasks, which are intended to assist players with forming short and medium terms that align with their empire’s nature, while reducing the randomness of the tech tree.
      • Empires can choose between Conquest, Exploration, and Development as their primary Empire Focuses. You will still gain Tasks from other categories, but they will generally be weighted towards your choice. Some Tasks are basic “Core” Tasks, and will provide progress along all three tracks.
      • Completing Tasks provides progress towards Guaranteed Technology unlocks that are considered critical for that playstyle. You still need to research the technologies, they only provide the research option when you reach progress milestones. If you already have the technology unlocked or as a permanent research option, there is no alternate reward.
      • Because Task completion is retroactive and there are no alternate rewards, there should be no benefit in waiting to complete any that you have.
      • Should you end up with a Task that you find uncompletable or that you do not wish to complete, you can discard it and gain a new Task for a small cost in Unity.
      • It is our intention that empires that behave consistent with their Empire Focus should naturally complete the Tasks of that category.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #368.
  • Trade has been revamped into a standard resource.
    • Trade is now used as the Market currency.
    • The Trade Routes system has been removed.
    • Ships now have logistical upkeep paid by Trade based on whether they are docked (free), friendly space (reduced), neutral space (normal), or hostile space (expensive).
      • Larger ships tend to have higher upkeep.
      • The multipliers based on location are set in defines.
      • Juggernauts do not have logistical upkeep, and reduce the logistical upkeep costs for ships in their system by 75%.
      • Resources blocks can now include a "logistics" block, which is currently only used by ships.
    • Planets now have logistical upkeep paid by Trade based on their local resource deficits. This represents the additional costs of diverting freighters to transport materials between planets.
      • Local deficit costs vary based largely on the base market value of the resources in question.
    • Trade Policies can set how much of your Net trade after logistics upkeep is converted into other resources.
    • Added galaxy setup sliders for Fleet Upkeep Logistics Costs and Planetary Deficit Logistics Costs.
    • More details can be found in Stellaris Dev Diary #369.
  • The main help button now displays the Databank window where you can explore brief articles on many in-game concepts, reducing the need to navigate to external information sources.

Improvement​

  • Adjective leader trait names reverted, for example Inquisitor to Inquisitive
  • Colonization flow has been improved.
    • You can now pre-select a colony designation and turn on planet automation before colonizing a planet, which will apply when the planet has finished colonizing.
    • Colonization now completes when 100 colonists have grown or migrated to the new planet.
  • Significant improvements have been made to the Species UI.
    • One template per species can be set as the default template for that species, and other subspecies can be set to integrate over time into that default template.
      • Open Beta Note: Current rate of pop integration is likely to change to be slower as well as monthly.
    • The trait selection UI when creating a new template has been improved.
    • The special project window pops up and can be started immediately after creating a new template if desired. It is no longer absolutely necessary as you can use integration to slowly convert your existing pops.
  • The Habitable Worlds slider in game setup now has a 'Rare' setting. There will still be a handful of habitable worlds in the galaxy, mostly from special events and guaranteed habitable worlds. Normalized initializer spawn odds to use a handful of scripted variables.
  • Added galaxy precursor selection to game setup.
  • Leader Adjustments:
    • As part of our game pacing and interruption reduction pass, leaders now gain trait selection moments on even levels rather than every level.
    • Leader positions now have a significantly greater effect on what traits will appear when they level up and gain a new skill.
    • Increased the base number of leader traits to pick from on level up by 1. This is intended to reduce the chance of getting exclusively poor trait options without devaluing other sources of leader trait picks too much.
    • Added an "Auto Select Leader Traits by Default" option to game settings, which defaults to Off. On game start or if you switch to an empire, it will toggle the setting on the Leaders tab to your selection. In Coop empires, this override only applies when the primary player of the country joins it. Changing the setting mid-game will not have any effect unless you switch countries.
  • Significant improvements have been made to Message and Notification settings, providing you much more control over how you receive them.
    • Updated the default message settings
      • Revised strategic resource messages and added toast notifications
      • Changed trader events into notifications with unique icons. Added sound effect.
      • Anomaly discoveries now appear in a toast rather than popping up in the center of the screen.
      • Patron Newsletter event was changed into a notification
      • The Terraforming Candidate Discovered Event is now a notification
      • Order Restored event is now a notification
      • Governing Ethic Shift event has been turned into a toast
      • Faction Formed Events now appear as toasts following the first event
      • Added additional event options to Corrupt Administration event and turned it into a notification
      • The Toxic Terraforming Candidate Discovered Event is now a notification
      • Changed Inter-Dimensional trade increases event into a notification
  • Added concept tooltips to the left Navigation Bar
  • Added the Celestial Orrery system
  • Transport ships can now use cloaking
  • The Ruler Stratum has been renamed the Elite Stratum, to better differentiate them from the actual Empire Ruler
  • The system fleet icon tooltip now shows the total of the fleets' military power listed by that icon, at the top.
  • Added unique event options and localization for new life discovered events
  • Reduced spammy First Contact events
  • First Colony event - Added unique event options and rewards for Ethics
  • Adjusted mass extinction event chain localization and picture
  • The Betrayal event has been revamped to include multiple options
  • Renamed government tab to overview in outliner
  • Reduced the frequency of the Rise of the Manifesti event chain
  • Added missing reward to fanatic materialist for Comet Sighted event
  • Improved readability for event Covenant Formed
  • Changed Storm Spotted alert sound to something less intrusive
  • The low habitability popup now clearly highlights the negative effects
  • Added the two new Society technologies Federation Code and Existential Campaigns
  • Ironman mode is no longer required to earn most Stellaris achievements. An unmodified game checksum remains a requirement, and the use of any debug commands blocks them.
    • The "Victorious" achievement has been changed to "Win the game through any victory condition in Ironman mode."
    • Open Beta Note: Pop related achievements have not yet been updated.
  • Several changes to the starbase UI to improve game flow and overall interaction
  • Reworked Starbase window to harmonize naming and tooltips
  • You are 4x as attractive as you were before.

Balance​

  • FE and Cosmogenesis Escort ships now have the same evasion value of 50
  • Changed Curator Insight cost to empire size
  • The Eternal Vigilance Ascension Perk can now be acquired early if you complete the Unyielding Tradition Tree.
  • Adjusted Anomaly spawn rates to improve the pacing of the early game.
  • Added more variance to whether or not prescripted systems will or will not appear in a given game. (They won't all appear in every single game anymore.)

Bugfix​

  • Fixed the issue of fleets failing to retreat from lost combat if the last ship failed to disengage.
  • Human Pre-FTL societies now obey the Pre-FTL Civilizations game settings slider.
  • Fixed a script error that was causing far more habitable planets to spawn in the galaxy than expected. Feel free to increase the Habitable Worlds slider if you prefer the old behavior.
  • Fixed inconsistent capitalisation causing issues with pre-ftl pop generation
  • Cleaned up the end-game crisis triggers. The Unbidden will no longer be the only ones to show up early to the party.
  • Fix triggers to properly give Fissile Cores, the unique mutation for crystalline entities
  • Treasure Hunters AIs now correctly go through the dialog events
  • Fix Black Needle country spawning starbases
  • Fixed too many AI empires being generated in coop games.
  • Fixed the tooltip for obtaining the Mirror of Knowledge from the Infinity Machine not mentioning the 200 influence it also gives you
  • Amenities icon fixed for Drone Storage and Hive Warren
  • checks if planet owner is primitive before applying sector or system bonuses
  • Set the nanotech ascension path interdictors to use different ship models from the swarmers
  • Spitter Gun mutations have armor penetration
  • Missiles mutations have numerals corresponding to tier in icons
  • Nanite Infused Barb mutation requires nanites to build
  • Ancient Driller Beasts mutations uses 88 as its M size cost
  • Neutron Throwers mutation damage buff
  • Blocked anomalies from spawning on the neutron star for Slingshot to the Stars' quantum catapult
  • Handled dyson sphere flags on dismantling swarm while upgrading
  • Fixed a broken tooltip inside of the "Extended Shifts" edict.
  • Clone Soldier Ascendants can now cyberize
  • Completing Inhibit Self-Deterministic AIs removes it from the situation log
  • Fix the possibility to build multiple Grand Archives at the same time
  • Only display relevant modifiers for Space Fauna ships in tooltips
  • Reanimated space fauna ships cannot upgrade no matter what
  • Black Needle fleet now correctly spawns to defend their base from bombardment
  • Destroy Gravity Snare when there's no valid target anymore
  • Broken Shackles check added for relevant Galcom events
  • Strip Mine Decision is no longer available on artificial planets
  • Inspired Rhetoric will no longer display a placeholder icon
  • Fixed situations start value being added multiple times.
  • Special system initializers now respect the habitable worlds slider in game setup (to a degree).
  • Planetary part of ringworlds no longer take on empire color
  • First Contact was changed into a toast and once again shows the correct localization
  • Added missing pre sapient loc string
  • The dismantle button has regained its missing loc string
  • Resolved scope error caused by toast target scope being set to root
  • Advanced start empires can no longer have mining stations over resources they do not have tech for

AI​

  • Fixed Prethoryn Scourge incorrectly calculating target priority for non-edible pops.

UI/UX​

  • Added an Assign Leader button to the leaders screen that lists available positions.
  • Fixed it not being possible to build starbases in systems with non-central stars from the galaxy view (when a construction ship is selected).
  • Added a message setting button in event popup windows.
  • Hid details that aren't relevant for all species in the galaxy when the Galaxy tab is selected in the Species view.
  • Updated the message settings screen to give more space for the message list.
  • Changed auto-unpause on the message settings screen from a spinner to a checkbox.
  • Adjusted centering of text and icons in toast windows. If a toast with custom description has no icon associated with the custom description, the description will now fill the entire lower section of the toast.

Localization​

  • Add tooltip to Cutholoid Hunter modifier
  • Add tooltip to Voidworm Hunter modifier
  • Turn reanimated cutholoids and voidworms ship size name consistent with other reanimated Space Fauna

Modding​

  • Open Beta Note: We’re still working on Zones and Buildings, and will likely change how we do some of this to be a bit friendlier. Don’t update your mods based on what you see in this build.
  • Add `resettle_pop_group` effect that allows to resettle a specified portion of a pop group to a target planet
  • Add first iteration of `create_pop_group` effect
  • Add kill_pop_group effect that takes a pop group and an amount or percentage and instantly kills them
  • Add `transfer_pop_amount` effect that transfers pops from a pop group to another
  • Removed unused can_resettle_planet game rule and renamed can_resettle_planet_no_owner_check to can_resettle_planet.
  • Removed can_colonize_with_pop game rule and moved its checks to can_colonize_with_species.
  • Added the script effect "copy_traditions_from = { target = FROM exceptions = { tradition1 tradition 2 } }" that copies tradition from a target country into the scoped country
  • Added "add_ascension_perk" and "remove_ascension_perk" effects, scope must be a country, adds or removed the specified perk syntax: add/remove_ascension_perk = perk_key
  • Added "copy_ascension_perks_from" effect: Copies the Ascension Perks of the target country into the scoped country. They are added to the existing perks, and the potential/possible triggers are respected. The perks listed in the exceptions list are not copied. copy_ascension_perks_from = { target = FROM exceptions = { perk1 perk2 } }
  • Added "remove_tradition" effect. Remove the target tradition from the scoped Country. remove_tradition = tradition_key
  • Added effect "remove_tradition_tree" Remove the target tradition tree from the scoped Country. remove_tradition_tree = tradition_category_key
  • Added spawn_design to static galaxy system data, which forces a specific design to spawn in the system.
  • Added gamesetup_settings script for configuring the settings list in game setup.
  • There is now an event_message_type in events that lets you override the default message type EVENT_MESSAGE_TYPE. This can e.g. provide separate message settings.
  • Scripted loc can now be used in concept tooltips and the top bar tooltips.
  • New on_action on_favor_gained that gets triggered when a country receives a favor.
  • Added the used_defense_platform_capacity_percent trigger, letting you check how much of a starbases defensive platform capacity is used.
  • Message notification background is now separated from the message type icon.
  • New on_action on_research_option_added that gets triggered every time a new permanent research option is acquired.
  • The actual script file and line are now printed when there are errors logged in scripted triggers and scripted effects, in addition to the previously available information.
  • kill_pop has been replaced with kill_pop_group. For ease of use kill_single_pop and kill_all_pop scripted effects have been made.
  • Replaced resettle_pop with resettle_pop_group.
  • Added "playme" console command as shorthand for human_ai and ai_ignore_was_human.

Okay, How Do I Opt Into the Beta?​

If you’re ready for a confusing, possibly frustrating, and unfinished experience, and you’re on Steam, you can opt into the Open Beta.

  1. Turn off your mods. They will almost certainly cause you to crash.
  2. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> Betas -> select "stellaris_test - 3.99.0 Open Beta" branch in the Beta Participation dropdown.

Game Properties in Steam


Steps to Test

What’s Next?​

We expect that the next Open Beta update, 3.99.1, will have Civilians in a more complete state, and more of the UI and AI should be in place. Buildings, Zones, and Jobs should also have more progress too.

Our next Dev Diary will be on Thursday, March 20th, but I hope to have an update to the Open Beta before the weekend.


 
  • 81Like
  • 26Love
  • 4
  • 2Haha
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Trade routes being gone is a positive, however it's not tied to introduce trade as a new resources doing double duty, at all. Prior trade would automatically be exchanged to energy/consumer goods/unity. Now you need to actually buy trade with energy, then buy whatever other resources you need. Meaning you'll pay the market fee twice in all likelihood.

As for being able to buy up everything one needs, that was entirely possible already? Except without an additional in between step that is now required to do so.
It is common for people to sell excess resources to get an injection of energy to buy resources they need, which also charged the market fee twice. The new system identical except for trade value being the currency and energy now being one of the resources you you can sell off for the quick cash injection.

I don't mean to offend, but I'm getting the impression that you're thinking that selling energy/other resources will be the only way to get trade value. I haven't yet had time to play the beta as it currently exists, so I don't know how the numbers are currently working out, I do know that the intended primary source of trade value in the final update will be pops, so you'll only be selling resources in bulk when you need to buy in bulk.
 
  • 8Like
Reactions:
I've found a bug where all my colonized planets get "decolonized" after a while.

Beside that, I find producing resources very difficult. Making a new zone is all or nothing, especially for the capital where the city district is already developed. Building a forge zone, makes a lot of metallurgist jobs to pop out, tanking your mineral production but skyrocketing your alloy production.
If you make one zone alloy and one zone research, expanding the city disctrict increases both researcher and metallurgist jobs, making it difficult if you just wanted more alloys.

The same problem is encountered with enforcers and entertainers. Reducing crime and producing amenities are not resources but I still find very hard to do. I had to replace my 2 building next to the capital building to make place to some enforcers to reduce a crime wave and I had no way of making more amenities even if I had the building space.

I think the main problem when your empire is still developing. I'm not sure if this zone specialization can become good in the mid game, but at game start, when you have few underdeveloped planets, it is very very hard to proceed. Not being able to demolish or replace zones doesn't help.

Now, the UI being undercooked surely didn't help, so I guess that around 20% of the problem is just missing features. But still....
 
  • 6
Reactions:
It is common for people to sell excess resources to get an injection of energy to buy resources they need, which also charged the market fee twice. The new system identical except for trade value being the currency and energy now being one of the resources you you can sell off for the quick cash injection.

I don't mean to offend, but I'm getting the impression that you're thinking that selling energy/other resources will be the only way to get trade value. I haven't yet had time to play the beta as it currently exists, so I don't know how the numbers are currently working out, I do know that the intended primary source of trade value in the final update will be pops, so you'll only be selling resources in bulk when you need to buy in bulk.
I understand his original thinking, however the new system opens avenues for new trade perks and abilities for races on prices and trade strength.

But excesive clicking is always a thing to be looked at.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
So how do we get rid of the starting zones we giveing on the homeworld as there is no UI icon to click on to use the replace like you can on the mineing ,farming districts so i cant get rid of the primitive factory on my homeworld etc
 
Interesting, I presume they'll fix it. If all pops can now grow equally though that might be a huge issue for mono race empires and I've not seen that being addressed anywhere.

As for my post being too harsh. I disagree. In the last year or so the forum has basically turned into a one sided cheer squad. There's no criticism for even the worst changes anymore, nothing is allowed to be doubted or not seen as positive and the same handful of people will mass downvote anyone who dares not give Eladrin standing ovations as he takes a sledgehammer to the game he inherited and wrecks havoc on it.

The new UI is a good example. While this is early stages and likely to change. It's making things more complicated, adding more nestled menus, and adding bloat while looking way less optimized. It's throwing out almost ten years of development and optimization for the sake of doing so wth few benefits.
I know what you mean, and it's frustrating to feel like a good game is going the way of google/twitter/netflix/youtube.

For me Stellaris adding the list of DLC to the new game screen with "Recommended DLC" and things reminds me of adverts on Netflix.
The UI changes in Stellaris reminds me of removing the downvote ratio on youtube, or the AI summary on google. Lots of little changes that each make my experience a little worse instead of better.

If I had the power to change it all I'd see how far the old tiles system could have been pushed - maybe have all buildings be 1 per planet, some linking buildings for production chain stuff, play around with adjacency related mini-game potential like buff entire rows, or only one directions, different patterns, positive and negative adjacency to represent pollution, tiles that can fit multiple pops for a megacity (like the specialists in civ 7, or districts in 6).

But I assume that the Devs are too locked-in now to do more than steer a little bit away from a fatal collision. I fear from my first taste of it today that the Zone system has the exact same problem that the old buildings with X jobs per Y pops used to have, that building one opens up a vast number of jobs and causes massive issues with job management as lots of pops/workforce shifts in massive jumps (and death-spirals) rather than more gentle shifts.

The same applies to the trade change.

Even if we deduct logistics from trade. I don't think trade needed to become a resource that is being stockpiled and handled in it's own right. It adds an extra step and click to buying goods from the market and other places that isn't really bringing any benefit. If you want to buy something, you now have to sell for example your energy credits, then buy it via trade. Being taxed twice all the while.

Nobody of the people left o the forum is questioning how sensible this is and how this adds extra work and changes the balance of the trade market. Most of the people who used to do so seem to have left in the last 1-2 years.
I disliked trade before because of poor performance, lack of routes to AI empires or to the market, lack of unique trade goods, lack of logic (instant shipping of food and rocks but not paperwork).

I still dislike trade now because of the lack of any routes at all (I like the little lines on the map), lack of trade goods (I like XuraGel, XanthamGhum or DRT-Soks), lack of logic (being both trade AND logistics means civilians are making/buying cargo containers and fuel for military ships out of thin air, with all these freighters being stockpiled somewhere without ever being built)

For Logistics: Master of Orion 2 had freighters you had to build like ships, and each could carry 5 units of food or 1 pop to planets that were not self-sufficient... don't have enough freighters and you starve/can't migrate. I much prefer that to whatever this is going to be.

For Trade: I want lines on the map between empires and the market hub. I want unique resources not generic trade value. I want to collect lots of funny little named luxuries that increase the living standards of my pops to higher and higher levels, or collect strategic resources that improve my economy and military in little but impactful ways.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
It is common for people to sell excess resources to get an injection of energy to buy resources they need, which also charged the market fee twice. The new system identical except for trade value being the currency and energy now being one of the resources you you can sell off for the quick cash injection.

I don't mean to offend, but I'm getting the impression that you're thinking that selling energy/other resources will be the only way to get trade value. I haven't yet had time to play the beta as it currently exists, so I don't know how the numbers are currently working out, I do know that the intended primary source of trade value in the final update will be pops, so you'll only be selling resources in bulk when you need to buy in bulk.
Yes, people used to trade excess goods. But Energy Credits were the universal resource. Trade was automatically exchanged into Energy + potentially 1/2 other resources. Now you have to trade that energy back being taxed twice even on Energy Credits. This makes energy credits much, much, much worse than they used to be. They're now effectively in the same category as food. Unless you need them for upkeep, they are now superfluous.

No, I'm aware that you still generate TV via pops. But TV being added as physical resource just serves zero purpose beyond adding a new resource you have to deal with. This adding a new resource that takes part of the role of an existing one solely to have yet another resource. Adding even more steps between actions.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I know what you mean, and it's frustrating to feel like a good game is going the way of google/twitter/netflix/youtube.

For me Stellaris adding the list of DLC to the new game screen with "Recommended DLC" and things reminds me of adverts on Netflix.
The UI changes in Stellaris reminds me of removing the downvote ratio on youtube, or the AI summary on google. Lots of little changes that each make my experience a little worse instead of better.

If I had the power to change it all I'd see how far the old tiles system could have been pushed - maybe have all buildings be 1 per planet, some linking buildings for production chain stuff, play around with adjacency related mini-game potential like buff entire rows, or only one directions, different patterns, positive and negative adjacency to represent pollution, tiles that can fit multiple pops for a megacity (like the specialists in civ 7, or districts in 6).

But I assume that the Devs are too locked-in now to do more than steer a little bit away from a fatal collision. I fear from my first taste of it today that the Zone system has the exact same problem that the old buildings with X jobs per Y pops used to have, that building one opens up a vast number of jobs and causes massive issues with job management as lots of pops/workforce shifts in massive jumps (and death-spirals) rather than more gentle shifts.


I disliked trade before because of poor performance, lack of routes to AI empires or to the market, lack of unique trade goods, lack of logic (instant shipping of food and rocks but not paperwork).

I still dislike trade now because of the lack of any routes at all (I like the little lines on the map), lack of trade goods (I like XuraGel, XanthamGhum or DRT-Soks), lack of logic (being trade and logistics means civilians are making/buying cargo containers and fuel for military ships out of thin air, with all these freighters being stockpiled somewhere without ever being built)

For Logistics: Master of Orion 2 had freighters you had to build like ships, and each could carry 5 units of food or 1 pop to planets that were not self-sufficient... don't have enough freighters and you starve/can't migrate. I much prefer that to whatever this is going to be.

For Trade: I want lines on the map between empires and the market hub. I want unique resources not generic trade value. I want to collect lots of funny little named luxuries that increase the living standards of my pops to higher and higher levels, or collect strategic resources that improve my economy and military in little but impactful ways.

This current change is shaping up to be a massive one, probably the biggest change in the history of Stellaris since we moved away from tiles if not bigger and fundamentally changes how virtually everything works. And this seems like I'm watching a slow motion train crash unfold, one a bunch of people are cheering on. While many of those who used to try and do something about it, have given up and left over the last 1~ year or so.

As for trade, the performance was an issue. The trade routes were pretty shitty. But it worked in a way that allowed it to be produced like other resources and then directly exchanged into other goods. I'd rather they iterate on that while fixing problems than turn it into another generic resource to be stockpiled. One that just took a huge chunk out of the purpose energy credits fulfilled.

The whole "universal currency" thing for energy credits had been mentioned time and time again by the old lead devs, that was the purpose of energy credits. Now we have food 2.0 which we don't need once we have fulfilled our upkeep. As it now doesn't serve as currency anymore.

Also, remember that ship upkeep paid via energy credits was meant to simulate logistics, repairs, etc all in one. Which is why docked ships would cost fewer energy credits and we even have a starbase structure for that purpose. Now we will effectively be paying it twice. Since I doubt that's going away.



The new planet system also seems, all around worse. Building a zone is a huge investment and especially in the early game can screw you over entirely. And from what some are saying it seems once you build one/developed one. You are effectively stuck with it. Why?
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
That's the best part, you can't!
Which is absolutely ridiculous. Taking away the ability to redevelop and change planets, how does that make sense? Even worse. What does this mean for taking planets from the Ai. Are you effectively stuck with their atrocious planets now when you conquer them?
 
  • 12
  • 2
Reactions:
So how do we get rid of the starting zones we giveing on the homeworld as there is no UI icon to click on to use the replace like you can on the mineing ,farming districts so i cant get rid of the primitive factory on my homeworld etc
That UI option is not there yet.
 
  • 5
  • 3
Reactions:
Which is absolutely ridiculous. Taking away the ability to redevelop and change planets, how does that make sense? Even worse. What does this mean for taking planets from the Ai. Are you effectively stuck with their atrocious planets now when you conquer them?
There are not "taking away" the option.

They very clear that simply didn't have time to add the option. Because it is a bit more work then just a button.
 
  • 9
Reactions:
There are not "taking away" the option.

They very clear that simply didn't have time to add the option. Because it is a bit more work then just a button.
Where was that stated? If so, my bad. Being stuck with planets we can't redevelop would be horrible.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Where was that stated? If so, my bad. Being stuck with planets we can't redevelop would be horrible.
In the section about the planet UI still being in development:
Since the Zones UI is still in progress, you cannot get access to the menu to replace them right now. You’re stuck with your Earth Space Age Industry for this build.


The Early Space Age zone doesn’t currently have any other buildings you can put into it, so being stuck with it is kind of unfun.
 
  • 6
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
So my first 20 years with the UNE. I've just written down anything I've noticed or wanted to comment on while playing:

Traits & Tooltips
Efficiency for X producing jobs -> "consists of Y-Jobs"
It is unclear whether this bonus applies to ALL jobs that produce said resource, or only to the specific jobs named in its tooltip.
E.G.: Haruspex is a sub-variant of priests, a unity producing job, but it does produce engineering as well. is it buffed by Natural Engineers? The trait description would make you think so (it IS an engineering producing job), but that specific job isn't listed... Same with many other sub-variants of jobs or planetary features (e.g. the one that makes farmers produce a bit of research)
How ever it works, it should clear in the extended tooltip by either saying "applies to following jobs" - which is definitiv, or "commonly consists of" or something that implies that if something changes the job output, it does apply.

Tooltips of traits don't show sub-variants (yet):
Tooltip now:
Traditional -> unity producing jobs -> bureaucrats -> bureaucrats
Tooltip ideally:
Traditional -> unity producing jobs -> bureaucrats -> (List of sub-variants) -> (List of Sub-Sub-variants, if any)

Planet Stuff:
"Managment" is a funny tab name, it's the tab were you manage the least. Planetary Summary is the main management tab. "Managment" is clearly the left-over tab :D
Terraforming, features, pop details, automation... Planet Summary??! Why would i even need this? all the information is just easily accessible in the top right... No. no. nononono put it back, put it back RIGHT NOW!!! :mad:

Planet -> Population -> Restore Jobs: The decimal pointer is redundant, you can only change jobs by sets of 10 even if you would somehow manage to get half a job.
Build Queue doesn't reopen when the planet screen is closed & opened again

Zones:
It feels bad to build a new Sub-Zone (research, factory...) having to pay minerals, wait (even if it's just 10 days) and get absolutely nothing. You have to pay and wait again before you get any jobs. Zones could give you a small-ish amount of corresponding jobs just by itself (or maybe be instant & free instead, given all you did was saying "there will be something")
Same for the ressource Zones - paying & waiting for nothing doesn't feel right. Just auto building the Zone after the tech/first district is also an option there.
Sub-Zones (research, factory...) need images in the suspiciously free area left of the first building.
Why can i build special resource mining and why does it do nothing?
Automation Building -> "it automates". Does it?
What is automation building 2?

Selling Energy?! Blasphemy.

Empire Focus

I'm still unsure what to think about it overall.
It's pretty hidden behind ~2 menus.
I hope it will just be something you can mostly ignore, once in a while just get rid of the duds & switch focus once or twice and hopefully it will be balanced in a way that you'll reach the end-goals soon-ish without having to interact/hope for good rolls too much.
They seem to disfavor hyper specialized builds though ~ e.g. the soon to be gone god trade-ring virtual rush build doesn't build a mining district... ever.
Build an industrial District -> Nice Joke! ;)
Some tasks aren't really something you always do and become a chore - assign a scientist as governor? Enact a planetary decision? You're pretty heavily incentivized to do these thing a lot sooner before they have any actual purpose or than you'd ideally like to (anomalies, archeology sites...)
But in the end the only reward that really matter are the last ones imo - if your aggressive build relies on a Tier 7 (!!!) reward to get cruisers "early" all hope is lost - as long as the Tier 10 rewards are easily achievable at a time where you would like to research that tech without having to game the system by doing stuff just to get the points, and that depends on how the later Tier tasks are, its fine.

Jobs & Pops
The pops and numbers under the jobs are nonsense. What do you mean 412 humans under physicists workforce? mousing over shows they are working at all kinds of places. workforce bar seems wrong too. My physicists show 421, 15, 103 and 61 humans under the workforce, 300/600 workforce, but all segments of the bar are filled, and they produce 14 physics research... and 0 naval cap.

You got to love how much colonists suck, they don't even give you food anymore! :D

The numbers on the icons in population screen are off by a factor of 10:
Physicists: 1000/2000 - the bar is completely filled. mousing over the lab icon: "Approx Job Production: 1024". Reality: 7 Consumer goods are transformed into 54 research... and 0 naval cap.

Enforcers have such low job weight that they unemployed to 0 given a chance, and it gave me the scum and villainy event
Favoring a job does nothing.

My civilians don't want to become scientists - they did in the end but it took a looong time. I've had the experience that unemployed was generally strange and i had less control and insight over pops (probably mostly just inexperience, the broken favoring function and imbalanced favoring) - I've had times where 2/2 planets had migrating unemployed pop, both had open jobs.
My civilian & worker segment in the population tab disappeared, i can't even see the open jobs anymore - that should always be shown regardless of people working there or not.
At 2220 earth doesn't have any workers or civilians, open jobs and yet an migrating unemployment symbol.

Not seeing Pop Growth visualized/numerized somewhere feels wrong.
I just see pop count rising but not by how much, when and most importantly whats affecting it.

You can't see the multipliers affecting a job output anywhere. they should at least be shown in the population tab at the production of each job my mousing over it.
Do research labs each provide 20% researcher output? Doesn't seem like it, if its only once, it should be stated somewhere in the tooltip.

Generally the zones & pop stuff really look promising but everything is just too rugged to get a good feel for it yet, but i'm really excited!
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
  • 4
Reactions:
I think my only real critique at the moment is that I don’t particularly like the theming of starting with industrial/21st century tech buildings. It works for civics and origins that suggest a direct primitive origin (Payback and eager explorers for example) but I don’t really like the vibe of it as a default. Other than that, what little I’ve seen so far has been interesting and promising
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Some of the origins/setups are just nightmares for starting, 1 alloy, 1 unity, zero trade, Ouch thats just nasty


And why oh why oh why is auto levelling of leaders turned on by default every time you start ?
 
Some of the origins/setups are just nightmares for starting, 1 alloy, 1 unity, zero trade, Ouch thats just nasty


And why oh why oh why is auto levelling of leaders turned on by default every time you start ?
Well, the opening post / Dev Diary explicitly states that a whole load of Origins and builds are utterly broken at the moment. That's why the explicitly recommend that you play UNE, because it's the least broken.

On the leaders thing: There's a setting in the Gameplay settings menu to turn that off from being automatic at the start.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: