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Stellaris Dev Diary #43 - The Fallen

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the fourth part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. Additionally, from this point on we will also start to cover some features in an upcoming content DLC that will be released alongside Heinlein. This content DLC will not be a full expansion, but rather a smaller pack of events and scripted content focusing on a particular area of the game. Please note that everything mentioned thus far, and everything mentioned from now on that isn't explicitly marked as paid content will be free in the Heinlein patch. Details about the DLC such as name, price and release date will come in a future announcement, and further content will be covered in coming dev diaries. The focus of today's dev diary is Fallen Empires, who are about to receive a number of reworks, changes and additions.

The Fallen
Fallen Empires are my favorite part about the Stellaris setting. The idea of a precursor empire, milennia old, whose borders once stretched across the galaxy, their glory now faded, their great advancements forgotten, but the power of their ancient fleets and technology still far above that of any fledgling empire. Enigmatic actors on the galactic scene, whose morals and ambitions have been warped by ages of self-imposed isolation. For me, it invokes images of the Galactic Empire from the Foundation and the Vorlons and Shadows from Babylon 5. However, the implementation of Fallen Empires never quite matched my visions - originally meant to be completely passive, they were retooled fairly late in the development to give them some basic personality and goals as enforcers of particular taboos. While these goals make for some memorable experiences for new players (I've seen more than a few stories of careless colonization of Holy Worlds) they by necessity require Fallen Empires to behave in a highly predictable manner that, once understood, turns them back into actors of little consequence to the player. For this reason, fleshing out Fallen Empires and adding an element of unpredictability to them has been high on my priority list ever since I became Game Director, and this is what we're aiming to do in the Heinlein patch and accompanying DLC.

Sleepers Awake (Free Feature)
The idea of Fallen Empire 'awakening' was mentioned by Henrik Fåhreaus/doomdark a number of times during development as something we were interested in doing, but ultimately is something that ended up being cut for time. In Heinlein, all Fallen Empires will have a chance to awaken as a result of certain external factors. The exact conditions and chance under which each Fallen Empire will awaken depends on their ethos, but some examples include:
  • Endgame Crises threatening them or the galaxy
  • Regular empires growing too strong/technologically advanced
  • Other Fallen Empires being defeated by regular empires
  • Other Fallen Empires awakening first

When a Fallen Empire awakens, their personality, government and country type change. Their previous restriction on building ships, colonizing and conquering is lifted and they become what we call an Awakened Empire. Awakened Empires have one of the following four personalities:
  • Militant Isolationists become Jingoistic Reclaimers, and will try to conquer the galaxy
  • Holy Guardians become Doctrinal Enforcers, and will try to convert the galaxy to their faith.
  • Enigmatic Observers become Benevolent Interventionists, and will try to force all other empires into becoming a signatory to a galactic peace treaty.
  • Keepers of Knowledge become Watchful Regulators, and will try to force all other empires to accept their technological primacy.

Awakened Empires will start to rapidly expand, colonizing surrounding systems and conquering those races who will not submit to their demands. In each case, you will be able to avoid their wrath by submitting to them as a subject, with a special subject type for each of the four:
  • Jingoistic Reclaimers have Thralls, tributaries who may not colonize but can fight among each other.
  • Doctrinal Enforcers have Dominions, tributaries with enforced spiritualist ethics and government.
  • Benevolent Interventionists have Signatories, subjects who may not wage war, enslave or purge, but are otherwise independent.
  • Watchful Regulators have Satellites, who must pay a share of their research to their overlord and are required to ban all AI.

Once a Fallen Empire awakens, they will not stop until their galactic ambition is achieved or they are defeated by a coalition of lesser races. Only a few events will cause them to change their plans, such as the presence of an endgame crisis or the start of the War in Heaven (more on that below).
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Personality Changes (Free Feature)
Among the four Fallen Empire personalities we created for release, two of them didn't really work out: The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers. The Holy Guardians and Militant Isolationists restrict you from a certain part of space - sure, that part may be a deliciously tempting size 20 Gaia World, but ultimately you can always find another place to expand. The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers, however, restrict playstyles - if you get one of the former in your galaxy, you can forget about having sentient robots until you're strong enough to take them on. As there's little you can do about this other than hope for the right type of Fallen Empires to spawn, it's not very fun and ultimately just limits player strategies in a rather arbitrary way. For this reason, we've decided to revamp the Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers.

While not awakened, they will not concern themselves with restricting the overall actions of the 'lesser' empires: Instead, they will pursue specific goals and ambitions that sometimes require them to interact with these very empires. These goals and actions take the form of Requests and Demands: If you have established communications with Keepers of Knowledge or Enigmatic Observers, they will sometimes contact you and either give you a task (for example, to hunt down a splinter faction of their species or recover a cache of technology from one of their old worlds) or make a demand (for example, one of your pops for their 'galactic preserve'). Completing their tasks will result in an opinion boost and a reward (such as technology or perhaps even a Fallen Empire ship), while repeatedly rebuffing their demands may result in a declaration of war to put you in your place.

The awakened versions of these two will take on some of the characteristics of the old, non-awakened versions, with Benevolent Interventionists seeking to enforce galactic peace and Watchful Regulators trying to regulate the level of technological advancement in the galaxy. They will also act as the first line of defense against galactical crises, taking it on themselves to unite the lesser races against such existential threats.

New Designs (Free Feature)
A small detail that I felt was lacking in Fallen Empires was the absence of any unique designs. All the Fallen Empires used the same (fairly lacking) Avatars and Eclipses, and ultimately their ships were inferior to what a regular empire that had been around for a century or two could produce. Both of these issues will be addressed in Heinlein, with each Fallen Empire ethos now having their own unique designs to use (and build, if they are awakened). For example, Keepers of Knowledge exclusively utilize energy weapons to strike their enemies at a distance, while Militant Isolationists combine afterburners and projectile weapons to get up close to their foes and tear their ships up at point-blank range. Additionally, a whole new ship class called Titans has been introduced as a (for now) exclusive new weapon in the Fallen Empire arsenal. Titans are enormous ship, the equivalent of several battleships, extremely durable and armed with a vast array of lethal weapons. They will sometimes be found in the starting fleets of Fallen Empires, and Awakened Fallen Empires will be able to build a limited number of them.
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The War in Heaven (Paid Feature)
We've talked about what happens when one Fallen Empire awakens, but what happens if there's two of them? For those with the DLC, two empires of opposing ethos (for example, Xenophobe and Xenophile) awakening can result in the War in Heaven event triggering. This event will cause the two Awakened Empires to go to war over the fate of the galaxy, dragging in the lesser species to fight on their side. All empires will be presented with a choice - join one of the two Awakened Empires and bet on their victory, join a league of non-aligned empires and hope you can stand against them both, or stand alone and risk being trampled underfoot when the war comes your way. Unlike a normal war, the War in Heaven is a cataclysmic event that will not end once a few worlds have been captured or a few battles won - it will be a fight to the death that ends only when one Awakened Empire stands victorious or both have been subjugated. If one of the Awakened Empires wins, they will show favor to those who supported them and be merciless to those who opposed them.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about some changes coming to space creatures, how they spawn and how they scale, coming in Heinlein.
 
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That is a bit of a mystery I would assume a Xenophobe would be less about conquest and more about annihilation that no race but itself should exist so instead of conquest it would focus on extermination.

Maybe they would have a special tech or something where after they can purge entire planets other than that I'm not sure myself.

CB conquer v CB purge?
wouldnt mean much for the player on losing the war tho
 
Will an awakened Empire start rebuilding the ruined parts of its ring-worlds?

Was about to ask the same question.
Would make sense to let them rebuild their ring-worlds first before starting to expand/ colonialize etc
 
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CB conquer v CB purge?
wouldnt mean much for the player on losing the war tho
Hmm I guess your right but other than that I can think of anything else unless the Xenophobe after you surrender not only did it purge your planets it destroyed ecosystems there so you could never recolonize them or reduced the number or useable tiles. Otherwise I'm not sure.
 
Great News all around.

I wonder how stronger new Escorts and Battlecruisers are. As in, how many more weapon and utility slots they have? I think Battlecruisers will have at least one XL weapon mount. Escorts probably not (being destroyer equivalent), but they definitely must have more than current 3 utility slots.

What bothered me about Avatars OTOH, is that their weapon mounts are very oddly placed. For example, one L slot is in the middle "eye", second is on top of "tower", but remaining tower and both "legs" contain M slots, as does one "arm" - but other arm has no weapon slots!

War in Heavens looks as must have... but is there a way to guarantee game will spawn with matching FE (if it has even number of them)? It'd suck to play for a couple decades expecting that huge conflict, only to realise that FE are (for example) spiritual and xenophobe, and thus won't wage heaven war since their ethics are not opposite.
 
I'm talking in terms of how they will behave, basically.

If you ever release superweapons then a new redone Xenophobic Fallen Empire would be appropriate. Whilst a Militarist Empire wants to conquer everyone, a Xenophobic Awakened Empire would try to Purge the Entire galaxy. Literally exterminating all life beyond a certain point. Like the Mass Effect Reapers or Doctor Who Daleks.
 
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I'm talking in terms of how they will behave, basically.

Maybe the current one should become the Militarist FE while a new Xenophobe FE would be treated as an end-game Crisis if it starts awakening?
 
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Hi @Wiz, can we get some expansion on rare weapons technologies? Wouldn't it be interesting if combining certain weapon load outs, such as yellow, blue, green and red shards; might give some sort of combined arms bonus to make them competitive with late game weapons?

Similarly, could there be other weapons trees such as organic weapons or some mysterious dark matter chain.

It's sort of bland that the game is all about rushing to Lances.
 
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Cool. Fallen empires were somehow lacking, i got one blocking my enemies development (Spiral galaxy) and favoring my development to such extent it mademy game really easy. And it feels they are waiting to be destroyed in the future, but now... interesting :D
 
I'm talking in terms of how they will behave, basically.

A militarist fallen empire could be about getting the weaker empires to fight eachother, rewarding winners with weapons and ships and so on. You could have the interesting feature where aggressive expansion actually gives a positive relationship bonus with them.
 
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If you ever release superweapons then a new redone Xenophobic Fallen Empire would be appropriate. Whilst a Militarist Empire wants to conquer everyone, a Xenophobic Awakened Empire would try to Purge the Entire galaxy. Literally exterminating all life beyond a certain point. Like the Mass Effect Reapers or Doctor Who Daleks.
Or the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za versus the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah.
 
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And every self-respecting Stellaris player has a new goal to eventually achieve: be part of the alliance that crushes both sides of the War in Heaven and dances upon the ashes... or better yet, does so alone.
 
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A militarist fallen empire could be about getting the weaker empires to fight eachother, rewarding winners with weapons and ships and so on. You could have the interesting feature where aggressive expansion actually gives a positive relationship bonus with them.
Perhaps they might also put a lot of emphasis on personal combat skill as well. Like wanting you to send in your leaders to fight in their arenas to the death. There's a lot of possible flavor you could have in there about your leader stepping into the ancient arena after performing all the sacred rituals for the fallen empire, then desperately fight for both their lives and for rewards. Refusal to participate in their ritual battles would be taken as an insult, of course, participation means you probably will lose your general/admiral/governor.

Pacifists could be more like bureaucrats rather than peacekeepers, with endless ancient protocols, treaties, and red tape to go through when dealing with them. They could also be used as a sort of trading option, where you can spend significant amounts of influence and resources to get possible benefits. Their awakened self would be all about imposing all these ancient agreements on the galaxy, making everyone play by the rules established by long extinct species from millennia ago.
 
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Great News, can't wait. I am a huge civilization fan, but in the moment i don't think i will buy civ 6 at release because i will be busy playing stellaris.
nothing will stop me buying civ 6 at release. ive always pre-ordered it and its consistently always in my top games. i cant wait for civ 6....why? victory conditions :p
 
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Mate, Paradox have their QA team that goes over everything they produce, but there are always going to be bugs that slip through. It's simply a matter of them not having enough people or hours to go through every situation that may crop up in a game, so they get the obvious ones before release, but then it's up to use to find the other problems and report them. I'm not too bothered by it because they're usually very good at hotfixing the gamebreaking stuff a day or two after release.
Exactly. This is why it would maybe be better to release the patch first, fix it, then the DLC.

Because if the DLC happens to be buggy while the patch brings some new issues to the game, it's going to be a drama-heavy day for Paradox. That's why I prefer to wait for more infos about the DLC (if it brings more events and stuff like that, I guess I'm fine with it), and also why I'll probably not buy it immediately.

I think there are already too many people frustrated by the state of the game at launch and since then, and by the price of the Plantoid DLC (doesn't matter if it was priced well or not, the thing is that many people disliked that). Stellaris is starting to have a community divided between fanboys (who will always find excuses to their Lord and God, will defend the choices of game design until Wiz said it was not exactly what he wanted to do, then downvote to death anyone who says that it was better before) and haters (who will... well... hate everything about the game but still continue to play it in the shadows), and I don't like that.

Now of course the DLC content may be very polished. But I'm still waiting for an improvement of the already ingame event chains. The Founder Species events don't even have a proper end currently...
 
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I'm talking in terms of how they will behave, basically.

It's tough to come up with differentiations,
Fallen Militarist might ask you to leave or target federations, to pay them tribute etc.
Fallen Xenophobe might ask you to purge specifique species, get rid of amoeba/crystal entities etc.

They would eventually feel similar but i reckon you can play on each ideologies specificities to change how it affects gameplay even if their ambition is similar (assert dominance on whole galaxy.
 
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Fantastic DD! It's great to know that awakened FEs aren't just "now we gunna purge y'all lol" but that you can actually use diplomacy to survive their wrath. Their awakening(and especially the WiH) is bound to drastically change the galaxy politically and potentially massively affect the player, depending on their ethos(a xenophile FE waking up is a pacifist's wet dream; but a militarist slaver's? Not so much).
 
I'm talking in terms of how they will behave, basically.
Hi Wiz,

First of all, thanks so much for your direct engagement with the community. It's so cool to feel part of the process, and like we know you and have personal investment in the game.

As far as this problem goes, I think it would help to match the ethos with its apparent opposite. Take militaristic/xenophile and pacifist/xenophobe. I think one could come up with plausible examples of each.

A militaristic/xenophile would be a martial culture that loves the diversity of armies and fighting styles, that treats other warriors with great respect, that wants to lead a giant alliance of kingdoms in glorious conquest. They wouldn't dream of purging (well, unless maybe you were truly worthless pacifists who would refuse to fight when the summons come.) Historical examples might possibly be the Romans - highly militaristic, but happy to absorb new cultures into themselves and to hire all sorts of auxiliaries. Maybe the Homeric Greeks (I think of Agamemnon in the movie Troy - "I love your lands; I love your men; I want them all to fight with me!") or the Persians and their vast diverse armies made up of many kingdoms.

A pacifist/xenophobe makes me immediately think of China under the more stagnant dynasties (like the Qing). No interest whatsoever in the barbarians; all we want to do is build a wall and keep them out, and interact with them as little as possible. We have no interest in conquest - why would we want anything they have? We are already the middle kingdom, the center of the world, and the midpoint between heaven and earth. China as a civilization, while perhaps not absolute pacifists like the Amish, tended to have far less interest in conquest than just about anyone else, and valued the scholar far more than the warrior. The idea is that you are forced to make war to keep harmony and uniformity within, and then of course to keep all those barbarian dogs out, but otherwise just want to live in peace and be left alone.
 
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