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Stellaris Dev Diary #43 - The Fallen

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the fourth part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. Additionally, from this point on we will also start to cover some features in an upcoming content DLC that will be released alongside Heinlein. This content DLC will not be a full expansion, but rather a smaller pack of events and scripted content focusing on a particular area of the game. Please note that everything mentioned thus far, and everything mentioned from now on that isn't explicitly marked as paid content will be free in the Heinlein patch. Details about the DLC such as name, price and release date will come in a future announcement, and further content will be covered in coming dev diaries. The focus of today's dev diary is Fallen Empires, who are about to receive a number of reworks, changes and additions.

The Fallen
Fallen Empires are my favorite part about the Stellaris setting. The idea of a precursor empire, milennia old, whose borders once stretched across the galaxy, their glory now faded, their great advancements forgotten, but the power of their ancient fleets and technology still far above that of any fledgling empire. Enigmatic actors on the galactic scene, whose morals and ambitions have been warped by ages of self-imposed isolation. For me, it invokes images of the Galactic Empire from the Foundation and the Vorlons and Shadows from Babylon 5. However, the implementation of Fallen Empires never quite matched my visions - originally meant to be completely passive, they were retooled fairly late in the development to give them some basic personality and goals as enforcers of particular taboos. While these goals make for some memorable experiences for new players (I've seen more than a few stories of careless colonization of Holy Worlds) they by necessity require Fallen Empires to behave in a highly predictable manner that, once understood, turns them back into actors of little consequence to the player. For this reason, fleshing out Fallen Empires and adding an element of unpredictability to them has been high on my priority list ever since I became Game Director, and this is what we're aiming to do in the Heinlein patch and accompanying DLC.

Sleepers Awake (Free Feature)
The idea of Fallen Empire 'awakening' was mentioned by Henrik Fåhreaus/doomdark a number of times during development as something we were interested in doing, but ultimately is something that ended up being cut for time. In Heinlein, all Fallen Empires will have a chance to awaken as a result of certain external factors. The exact conditions and chance under which each Fallen Empire will awaken depends on their ethos, but some examples include:
  • Endgame Crises threatening them or the galaxy
  • Regular empires growing too strong/technologically advanced
  • Other Fallen Empires being defeated by regular empires
  • Other Fallen Empires awakening first

When a Fallen Empire awakens, their personality, government and country type change. Their previous restriction on building ships, colonizing and conquering is lifted and they become what we call an Awakened Empire. Awakened Empires have one of the following four personalities:
  • Militant Isolationists become Jingoistic Reclaimers, and will try to conquer the galaxy
  • Holy Guardians become Doctrinal Enforcers, and will try to convert the galaxy to their faith.
  • Enigmatic Observers become Benevolent Interventionists, and will try to force all other empires into becoming a signatory to a galactic peace treaty.
  • Keepers of Knowledge become Watchful Regulators, and will try to force all other empires to accept their technological primacy.

Awakened Empires will start to rapidly expand, colonizing surrounding systems and conquering those races who will not submit to their demands. In each case, you will be able to avoid their wrath by submitting to them as a subject, with a special subject type for each of the four:
  • Jingoistic Reclaimers have Thralls, tributaries who may not colonize but can fight among each other.
  • Doctrinal Enforcers have Dominions, tributaries with enforced spiritualist ethics and government.
  • Benevolent Interventionists have Signatories, subjects who may not wage war, enslave or purge, but are otherwise independent.
  • Watchful Regulators have Satellites, who must pay a share of their research to their overlord and are required to ban all AI.

Once a Fallen Empire awakens, they will not stop until their galactic ambition is achieved or they are defeated by a coalition of lesser races. Only a few events will cause them to change their plans, such as the presence of an endgame crisis or the start of the War in Heaven (more on that below).
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Personality Changes (Free Feature)
Among the four Fallen Empire personalities we created for release, two of them didn't really work out: The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers. The Holy Guardians and Militant Isolationists restrict you from a certain part of space - sure, that part may be a deliciously tempting size 20 Gaia World, but ultimately you can always find another place to expand. The Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers, however, restrict playstyles - if you get one of the former in your galaxy, you can forget about having sentient robots until you're strong enough to take them on. As there's little you can do about this other than hope for the right type of Fallen Empires to spawn, it's not very fun and ultimately just limits player strategies in a rather arbitrary way. For this reason, we've decided to revamp the Keepers of Knowledge and Enigmatic Observers.

While not awakened, they will not concern themselves with restricting the overall actions of the 'lesser' empires: Instead, they will pursue specific goals and ambitions that sometimes require them to interact with these very empires. These goals and actions take the form of Requests and Demands: If you have established communications with Keepers of Knowledge or Enigmatic Observers, they will sometimes contact you and either give you a task (for example, to hunt down a splinter faction of their species or recover a cache of technology from one of their old worlds) or make a demand (for example, one of your pops for their 'galactic preserve'). Completing their tasks will result in an opinion boost and a reward (such as technology or perhaps even a Fallen Empire ship), while repeatedly rebuffing their demands may result in a declaration of war to put you in your place.

The awakened versions of these two will take on some of the characteristics of the old, non-awakened versions, with Benevolent Interventionists seeking to enforce galactic peace and Watchful Regulators trying to regulate the level of technological advancement in the galaxy. They will also act as the first line of defense against galactical crises, taking it on themselves to unite the lesser races against such existential threats.

New Designs (Free Feature)
A small detail that I felt was lacking in Fallen Empires was the absence of any unique designs. All the Fallen Empires used the same (fairly lacking) Avatars and Eclipses, and ultimately their ships were inferior to what a regular empire that had been around for a century or two could produce. Both of these issues will be addressed in Heinlein, with each Fallen Empire ethos now having their own unique designs to use (and build, if they are awakened). For example, Keepers of Knowledge exclusively utilize energy weapons to strike their enemies at a distance, while Militant Isolationists combine afterburners and projectile weapons to get up close to their foes and tear their ships up at point-blank range. Additionally, a whole new ship class called Titans has been introduced as a (for now) exclusive new weapon in the Fallen Empire arsenal. Titans are enormous ship, the equivalent of several battleships, extremely durable and armed with a vast array of lethal weapons. They will sometimes be found in the starting fleets of Fallen Empires, and Awakened Fallen Empires will be able to build a limited number of them.
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The War in Heaven (Paid Feature)
We've talked about what happens when one Fallen Empire awakens, but what happens if there's two of them? For those with the DLC, two empires of opposing ethos (for example, Xenophobe and Xenophile) awakening can result in the War in Heaven event triggering. This event will cause the two Awakened Empires to go to war over the fate of the galaxy, dragging in the lesser species to fight on their side. All empires will be presented with a choice - join one of the two Awakened Empires and bet on their victory, join a league of non-aligned empires and hope you can stand against them both, or stand alone and risk being trampled underfoot when the war comes your way. Unlike a normal war, the War in Heaven is a cataclysmic event that will not end once a few worlds have been captured or a few battles won - it will be a fight to the death that ends only when one Awakened Empire stands victorious or both have been subjugated. If one of the Awakened Empires wins, they will show favor to those who supported them and be merciless to those who opposed them.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about some changes coming to space creatures, how they spawn and how they scale, coming in Heinlein.
 
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Fallen empires supposed to start their space exploration phase thousands of years ago.. i would expect them to have so superior technology that is unachievable to normal races.. some of it could be salvaged but a FE ship should always be stronger and more advanced that those we can build. The only way to defeat them is to gradually weaken them by outnumbering their fleets and steal from the debris.

Also.. wouldn't it be cool if they lived in their pocket universe? at least their homeworld would be there with huge defenses.
But not all the technology. It's nearly impossible.
 
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Fantastic changes. One question concerning the passage quoted below:

If one of the Awakened Empires wins, they will show favor to those who supported them and be merciless to those who opposed them.

What would the victorious Awakened Empire do with the empires that chose to remain neutral in the war after it ended? Would they be merciless or indifferent towards them?
 
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These changes sound really good. Some of the requests and demands from FEs sound like they're going to add some interesting diplomatic choices that the game was sorely lacking. Do I want to appease a Fallen Empire and get a nice little tech boost, plus favor with a super-powerful race? What if they're asking me to attack an ally? It should lead to some interesting gameplay situations. The War in Heaven sounds nice, too, for similar reasons.

The only thing I'm not too pleased about is the addition of more technology for FEs that the player straight-up cannot have. I know you added in a little "(for now)", but that doesn't make it any less frustrating. Part of the problem with Stellaris's current end-game is that, once you've got a shit-ton of minerals and energy, you really don't have much to do with it. There are no massive-scale constructions to work on, and it's really annoying to see Fallen Empires running around with cool tech that I can never have simply because the game doesn't have a way for me to get it. I want to build ring worlds, massive titans and flagships, planet-destroyers, star-destroyers. This is sci-fi, so the only limit here is imagination and game balance. If Fallen Empires are the ultimate in technological progression, then I want to match them by the end-game. Hell, why not add some really intense tech, that even Fallen Empires thought were impossible?
 
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@Wiz

I had a few questions before in the previous dev diary, and now i have new ones as well.

1: Is is known yet about how much the war in heaven stuff is going to cost? If yes can i know it or is it secrets?

2: Is the grand mausoleum going to be buffed? right now it is just a more expensive and time consuming symbol of unity that can only be built once in a leader's lifetime. The royal gardens kind of have the same problem but with the Paradise dome even being better in terms of what it gives you.

3: can you please answer my questions from the previous dev diary?

I am really exited about Heinlein!
Have a space-tastic day Wiz and everyone else at Paradox. ALL HAIL THE GREAT RADISH!
 
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Mate, Paradox have their QA team that goes over everything they produce, but there are always going to be bugs that slip through. It's simply a matter of them not having enough people or hours to go through every situation that may crop up in a game, so they get the obvious ones before release, but then it's up to use to find the other problems and report them. I'm not too bothered by it because they're usually very good at hotfixing the gamebreaking stuff a day or two after release.
Well, they sold over half a million copies, or around USD 20 million in revenue, and have profit margins exceeding 30%, so I think they can spare a bit more on QA, given the scope of bugs each patch inevitably has. Not all games have so many hot fixes necessary...

I think the changes proposed are fine improvements. They just aren't the ones I'd choose to fix first. They are essentially making a combat heavy 4X even more so. I'd rather they focus more on factions and sectors as originally planned.

And its hard to continue to play the game in the late game with such a dense UI compared to competitors - colonization and colony management being my major gripe. If they address this I'll feel much more positive about 1.3 and possibly a DLC, but it's hard to justify forking over more money or even time for a game where I'm still waiting on [implied] promised features.
 
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Sounds like this is what it will be like if a Fallen Empire conquers the galaxy, either wiping out or vassalising every Empire.

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my-body-is-not-ready.gif
 
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What would the victorious Awakened Empire do with the empires that chose to remain neutral in the war after it ended? Would they be merciless or indifferent towards them?

Indifferent I guess. After all, they deserve no rewards because they did not aid them, but also don't need to be punished as those that opposed them. May they cry as their rivals grow in strength.
If they survive that is. Seems like the FEs will attack anything the neutral empire owns if they go through their lands during the war.

These changes sound really good. Some of the requests and demands from FEs sound like they're going to add some interesting diplomatic choices that the game was sorely lacking. Do I want to appease a Fallen Empire and get a nice little tech boost, plus favor with a super-powerful race? What if they're asking me to attack an ally? It should lead to some interesting gameplay situations. The War in Heaven sounds nice, too, for similar reasons.

The only thing I'm not too pleased about is the addition of more technology for FEs that the player straight-up cannot have. I know you added in a little "(for now)", but that doesn't make it any less frustrating. Part of the problem with Stellaris's current end-game is that, once you've got a shit-ton of minerals and energy, you really don't have much to do with it. There are no massive-scale constructions to work on, and it's really annoying to see Fallen Empires running around with cool tech that I can never have simply because the game doesn't have a way for me to get it. I want to build ring worlds, massive titans and flagships, planet-destroyers, star-destroyers. This is sci-fi, so the only limit here is imagination and game balance. If Fallen Empires are the ultimate in technological progression, then I want to match them by the end-game. Hell, why not add some really intense tech, that even Fallen Empires thought were impossible?

For every FE tech that player also gets, PDS must make new techs that the player can't independently get in order to remind people that these Empires had a thousand years to advance in tech. I'd rather that FEs have a lot of unique tech branches, which player can get by either conquering them or analyzing enough of their debris.

Yeah it all sounds great if all you like doing is designing and building ships and going to war. It's more RTS than 4x.

Besides that some of this new stuff limits your warmongering, especially if you become a vassal of the Xenophile FE (which aren't allowed to wage wars).
While the other changes require you to play the diplomatic game cautiously, predict outcomes and gamble with your decisions because unless you are cautious, you will never be able to defeat the FEs which are now buffed beyond recognition.
 
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For every FE tech that player also gets, PDS must make new techs that the player can't independently get in order to remind people that these Empires had a thousand years to advance in tech. I'd rather that FEs have a lot of unique tech branches, which player can get by either conquering them or analyzing enough of their debris.
Sure, and that's fine. Arguably even a very good game mechanic. But, I'm just pissy because even if I do research Fallen ships etc., I still can't get some of their tech. And, like I said, I'd like to see even more advanced tech, maybe with Fallen tech as a prerequisite.
 
This is... cool, I guess?

For the first paid DLC, I was really hoping for something that fundamentally deepens the gameplay, not just... a different sort of enemy to shoot.

Like, maybe a patch that turns the leaders into actual characters instead of two numbers.
 
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