Hi folks!

The topic of the week in this series of dev diaries for Stellaris is what sets empires and species apart from each other. Most obviously, of course, they look different! We have created a great many (ca 100) unique, animated portraits for the weird and wonderful races you will encounter as you explore the galaxy. These portraits are mostly gameplay agnostic, although we have sorted them into six broad classes (Mammalian, Arthropoid, Avian, Reptilian, Molluscoid or Fungoid) which affect the names of their ships and colonies, for example. To give additional visual variety, their clothes may sometimes vary, and when you open diplomatic communications with them the room they are standing in will appear different depending on their guiding Ethos.

Speaking of Ethos, this is no doubt the most defining feature of a space empire; it affects the behavior of AI empires, likely technologies, available policies and edicts, valid government types, the opinions of other empires, and - perhaps most importantly - it provides the fuel for internal strife in large and diverse empires. When you create an empire at the start of a new game, you get to invest three points into the various ethics (you can invest two of the points into the same ethic, making you a fanatic.)

Collectivist - Individualist
Xenophobe - Xenophile
Militarist - Pacifist
Materialist - Spiritualist

Your Ethos will limit your valid selection of government types, but there are always at least three to choose from; an oligarchy of some kind, a democracy or a monarchy. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, in monarchies there are no elections, and you do not get to choose your successor when your ruler dies (except in Military Dictatorships), and if you die without an heir, all Factions in the empire will gain strength (oh, and there may be Pretender factions in monarchies...) On the other hand, each ruler may build a special "prestige object" in his or her lifetime, named after themselves. For example, military dictators can build a bigger, badder ship, and Divine Mandate monarchs can build a grand Mausoleum on a planet tile. Of course, both ethics and government types usually also have direct effects on the empire.

Keep in mind, though, that there is a clear difference between the empire you are playing and its founding race. Empires and individual population units ("Pops") have an Ethos, but a species as a whole does not. Instead, what defines a species is simply its initial name, home planet class, and portrait (and possibly certain backstory facts.) Each race also starts out with a number of genetic Traits. As with the empire Ethos, you get to spend points to invest in Traits when you create your founding species at the start of a new game.

It is natural for individual Pops to diverge in their Ethics, especially if they do not live in the core region of your empire. This has far reaching consequences for the internal dynamics of empires; how Pops react to your actions, and the creation and management of Factions, etc (more on that in a much later dev diary!) Traits are not as dynamic as ethics, but even they can change (or be changed - this is also something we will speak of more at a later date...)

The traits and ethics of individual Pops of course also affect their happiness in various environments and situations. Naturally, they cannot even live on planets that are totally anathema to them…

That's all for now. Next Week: Leaders and Rulers!

 

[((1+SQRT(5)))/2]

Boosts to economics and trade most likely.

If that is true, then Xenophile goes with it. (Diplomacy and Trade makes sense). -There's Trade if there's friendly terms!
Likewise, Xenophobe goes with the opposite. (Slavery and Collectivist makes sense). -There's no Trade Bonus with slaves!

Also, I think:

Militarist goes with Slavery. (Soldiers conquering or capturing slaves).
Likewise, Pacifist goes with the opposite. (Big farming communities Trading with other friendlies).

So,
1 Collectivist, 1 Xenophobe, 1 Militant.
OR
1 Individualist, 1 Xenophile, 1 Pacifist.

But, maybe being a Fanatic at something makes sense?

I think: Xenophobe / Xenophile are 'uncertain bonuses' based on probability. Can't force friendship from lack of peace (unless they're a pushover) or slavery without forcing your will (like saying, please raise your hand if you want to be a slave), absolutely. Therefore, I don't think Fanaticism is worth it here, probably.

I think: Militarist / Pacifist is a Swords to Plowshares idea. In other words, more 'might' Soldiers or 'food' Farmers. It's style to grow the Empire, Externally or grow the Empire, Internally. I wouldn't choose a Fanatic at either choice, imo because I believe there is a balance based on style.

I think: Individualist / Collectivist also enhances the Xeno or M/P situation. (friend or slave), (bigger population, or more mighty). And, this category may be worth a Fanatic pick.

My Imaginable Fanatic Combos:
Imagine a Fanatic Individualist, who also benefits if the would be Neutrals are turned to friendlies.
Xenophile.
Imagine a Fanatic Individualist, who certainly benefits from a likely larger population base, Internally.
Pacifist.
Imagine a Fanatic Collectivist, who benefits if the enemy 'foe' is captured as slaves. (Internal).
Xenophobe.
Imagine a Fanatic Collectivist, who certainly benefits in likely conquering the enemy. (External).
Militarist.

During my first game, I'm leaning towards:
Individualist 2, Xenophile 1.
I figure Economics and Trade boosted with Diplomacy would be Good, without sacrificing -War happiness or -War Tolerance, even though Pacifists would be a sure Economics boost because of a bigger population; unless War broke out that is. Also, I'd rather win Trading points than Slave points. (possibly less effort too). And, the collectivist militarist would be possible, but that would be an endgame scenario, not a developing scenario, i would think.

Note: I haven't considered Materialist or Spiritualist here.

 

[General Karthos]

Don't know if anyone else has made these guesses, but here's my thoughts:

1. Military Dictatorship
2. Theocracy
3. Republican Dictatorship/Shadow Ruler
4. Enlightened Monarchy/Despotism
5. Absolute Monarchy
--------------------
1. Military Junta
2. Shadow Government OR a Theocratic Council
3. Technocracy
4. Hippie Commune
5. Proper Corporatocracy/Oligarchy
--------------------
1. Citizen's Democracy (Starship trooper folks!)
2. Theodemocracy
3. Intellectualism (perhaps voting tests? Or only the educated? Basically the ideology of the Electoral College
4. Pacifist Democracy
5. Corrupt Democracy/One party state

You're reading left to right, is that correct? I think that 2 on the top would be "Divine Right Monarchy" which the DD mentions. I think #3 might be Constitutional Monarchy, just because it's like one hand passing the world to another. (I found similar images online, and that's the gist I can gather.)

For the second collection, I think #1 is probably right, 2 and 3 as well. #4, I'm not sure I'd call it Hippie Commune. Maybe even Pacifist Oligarchy/Committee would be appropriate. #5 might be an absolute Plutocracy.

On the bottom... #5 might involve reelecting a "President for Life", but then free elections when the President dies. #3 might involve actual free elections. #1 squares with what I think, though I'm not sure I'd call it a Citizen's Democracy. Though I appreciate the Starship Troopers reference. #2 is probably right, and we obviously know what #4 was.

 

[loup99]

I think that it might be better to wait on to see what governement tupes and ethics there are before starting a debate concerning the iodeologies ingame.

I don't think anyone here actually thinks marxism is a good idea. I sure hope not atleast. Can't say certain for the others but my family is from east germany I know what happens when people try out that ideology. And since I'm swedish myself I've grown up with people making excuses for communism all my life. I'm sick and tired of "But what was practiced in the soviet wasn't communism" Yeah it was, sure it a derivative form but yeah the people who dragged relatives of mine of into the night never to be seen again use Marx to justify those actions.

There is an OT forum for sharing all of your twisted definition of the USSR being communist, marxist or social-liberals being socialist. Just so you know.

If not meant as a joke then this is probably the wisest question on this thread. My best answer is that the answer to that question is no longer defined, thus rendering the discussion quite meaningless.

Please use other sources that Wikipedia for defining those ideologies and you might end up getting an accurate definitioon instead of "everyone not right-wing are commies" because USSR.

 

[TheDungen]

I think that it might be better to wait on to see what governement tupes and ethics there are before starting a debate concerning the iodeologies ingame.

There is an OT forum for sharing all of your twisted definition of the USSR being communist, marxist or social-liberals being socialist. Just so you know.


Please use other sources that Wikipedia for defining those ideologies and you might end up getting an accurate definitioon instead of "everyone not right-wing are commies" because USSR.

Oh stop putting words in my mouth! Honestly the combination of strawmen and prefabricated repsoneses that more of less always are the same is why you people are so tiresom to debate. And way to go hypocrite, like you said there's a OT forum for this stuff so stop brining the discussion up again. On the other hand I'm sure that if you read this thread carefully (actually not manage to get me to say the opposite of what I've been saying) you'll find that I've already responded to any of these things atleast twice already.
With that said I wish you a good day and suggest that we get back to discussing these issues only as they relate to stellaris.

 

[TheDungen]

I don't know. Even disconnected, Seven would still often show that she missed the collectiveness of it all. It might be just her, having been assimilated as a child, but it might be something they implant as part of the process.

Who? Oh you mean the chick from Voyager? I was actually consiering more along the lines of how Hugh managed to form a faction of his own that broke of the main collective. So to some extent I guess it is cultural even if their inherent abilities ties in to that.

Boosts to economics and trade most likely.

Like I said earlier, I hope governments are a little more intresting than just a few diffrent bonuses.

 

[kuybi]

Actually wikipedia has quite a lot of people involved who screen their pages for missinformation, usually in association with libraries and museums (my dear old dad had that as part of his job as a museum intendant to factcheck wikipedia pages a certain number of hours each months, until he reitred that is). And it is actually an accepted source by most major universities today. Icluding the one I go to, University of Lund, the second oldest seat of learning in Sweden.

It certainly beats no source at all.

Wikipedia often provide information without source, which means in those cases it's same as no source at all.

 

[kuybi]

Having read Marx, I totally sympathize with all the people who don't want to read him. He's a terrible writer, and it doesn't help that he's just flat out wrong about so many things. But I still read quite a bit once upon a time because I've also read Sun Tzu...

terrible writer? could you at least specify what's wrong? "flat out wrong"? Are you insane or what?

 

[TheDungen]

Wikipedia often provide information without source, which means in those cases it's same as no source at all.

Actually anything without a source on wikipedia quickly gets flagged with the lack of source tag. Like I said universities, museums and libraries across the globe work together with wikipedia to keep their pages accurate.

 

[The Biso]

Honestly, the heated discussion on ideologies on here just seems to me like it'd be best if we fought it out on Stellaris Multiplayer.
Hosting a political debate multiplayer game when this comes out.
Would it be better if Stalin was a pacifist fungus? Coming soon.

 

[Thrake]

I really love how governments have unique features. In some Paradox games, this is a lacking part of the game IMO, and a missed chance for a different feel in different playthrough.

 

[TheDungen]

I really love how governments have unique features. In some Paradox games, this is a lacking part of the game IMO, and a missed chance for a different feel in different playthrough.

How do you know they do? All we've seen are some bonuses, and that's very much like paradox, we havent seen anything in the terms of unique mechanics yet as far as I've seen. Aside from being told that 'monarchies' won't have elections.

 

[Genusaus]

I want to take a stab at the government types:

I think people may be taking the row = x, column = y thing a bit more serious than developers of games would. In particular, you can look at the fifth column--I don't really think anyone has come with a really coherent idea behind this one except to assume the Eagle means a "Victorian" Empire, but they weren't really famous for their double-headed eagles.

I'm going to focus on the imagery and draw a bit of inspiration by trends other people noticed, but I won't be all too rigidly following the "row = x column = y" theory.

Top Row
1: [Military Dictatorship] Here we have one guy with a sash, a hat and a podium.
2: [God-King/Divine Ruler] Here we have one guy in a pose reminiscent of a Bodhisattva, but what's important is there is one character, there is a spiritual element, and he isn't just in a collar. This implies that he isn't just a member of the clergy.
3: ["Ecotopia"/Ecological State] There are hands--this implies guardianship or custodianship. There is the Earth--implying the environment. I don't think I've seen this mentioned before. I have seen a suggestion of Feudal Monarchy before, but that is far removed from the image and would be better represented by a staggered pyramid or something other than hands and the planet Earth. We have to remember that this is a space game, so Earth--just one planet--doesn't imply everything--as some people suggested this may mean one individual rules over all the resources or this is a shadow government. I think the image of the Earth is the best way to represent the environment other than perhaps a tree, or a butterfly, or something "Earthy". Of course this doesn't seem to fit with the row = x column = y theory, but just based on the image I think this is the most appropriate thing to assume.
4: [Enlightened Despotism] A light bulb with a crown inside. Well the crown is easy--that's a monarch of some sort. The light bulb implies a number of things, but usually something along the lines of science or intelligence. I believe in this instance it isn't necessarily pointing to science but "principles", but all I have to go on is a light bulb.
5: [Empire] A double-headed eagle that reminds me of European heraldry. This particular style of eagle was frequently used by countries that tried to tie themselves to a particular country with a particular legacy. As a form of government it seems pretty vague.

Middle Row
1: [Military Junta] Lots of guys, lots of hats, lots of sashes, but no podium this time.
2: [Theocracy] A group of guys with collars--implying priests or clergy.
3: [Technocracy] The hands imply custodianship or guardianship. The atom implies science. I wonder what kind of message hands with a light bulb would imply? We are guardians of electricity!
4: [???????/Peaceful 2-paged plural constitution thing government aka multicultural nonsense] This one is difficult. There is a peace sign--implying...well...uh...peace. There are several pages, or maybe they are SIM cards--there is a slight stylistic difference between the "pages" here and the pages on the bottom row; note how the page is "bookmarked" at the top-right corner. Ultimately I believe the stylistic difference is due to the need of maintaining a separation of these two "pages"--black on black would ruin the illusory depth the icon promotes.If the person who designed the icon went through the trouble of changing how their stylistic page looked to add a second page in the background then that means it isn't something to shrug off--there has to be a reason behind it. What do two pages imply that one page doesn't? Different sets of laws? What does one page even imply? Well they aren't put into a ballot box like the icons of the bottom row, so I do not believe it implies votes or democracy--why fix what isn't broken? I think the page represents something like a constitution or legal limits, but that's a complete guess.
5: [Plutocracy/"Corporate Something"] A guy with bags of money and a top hat--a wealthy fellow. This doesn't technically imply the form of government--just a system that promotes a rich person to be the ruler, which happens to probably like bags of money as well.

Bottom Row
1: [Stratocracy] Guys, hats, and sashes all in one page. Is the page a constitution? Well I don't think it's a vote since it's not in a ballot, so I'll go with it. Who gets to put input into the representatives of the stratocracy? That will probably be abstracted.
2: ["Theocratic Republic"] People with collars inside one page. Someone pointed out that this could be a government where only priests are enfranchised. I think that sounds possible, but it also may be the case where only priests are electable by the mostly-enfranchised populace.
3: [Direct Democracy] There is a hand and a ballot box; the ballot has a straight line with an arrow. Denkt mentioned that the arrow could indicate "progress"--the row does seem pretty science-y. I think that idea is quite plausible, but I'm juxtaposing this icon with the one in column 5 which has an indirect arrow.
4: [Moral Democracy] Easy. But this one makes me confused as to what the other government names will be--there is no such thing as a "moral democracy" to me.
5: [Indirect Democracy] There is a hand and a ballot box; the ballot has a curved line with an arrow. Based on column 3's straight arrow I believe this arrow is simply a contrast of both the icons and the government they represent. It is vague as to what one means compared to the other, but I do believe they are related.

I do think there is a loose relationship with the rows and columns, but not to the cookie-cutter degree others might imply.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

I mostly agree with Genusasus. Some things I'll add to his post:

5: [Empire] A double-headed eagle that reminds me of European heraldry. This particular style of eagle was frequently used by countries that tried to tie themselves to a particular country with a particular legacy. As a form of government it seems pretty vague.

The double-headed eagle has been related to Roman and specially Byzantine heritage on this thread, not "Victorian" empires as you mentioned. I believe it is better fit for either an Absolute Monarchy, or Bureaucratic Despotism(a "Byzantine" bureaucracy, anyone?) where there is a single ruler aided and supported by a large elite class of bureaucracy that takes orders from him and only him.

4: [???????/Peaceful 2-paged plural constitution thing government aka multicultural nonsense] This one is difficult. There is a peace sign--implying...well...uh...peace. There are several pages, or maybe they are SIM cards--there is a slight stylistic difference between the "pages" here and the pages on the bottom row; note how the page is "bookmarked" at the top-right corner. Ultimately I believe the stylistic difference is due to the need of maintaining a separation of these two "pages"--black on black would ruin the illusory depth the icon promotes.If the person who designed the icon went through the trouble of changing how their stylistic page looked to add a second page in the background then that means it isn't something to shrug off--there has to be a reason behind it. What do two pages imply that one page doesn't? Different sets of laws? What does one page even imply? Well they aren't put into a ballot box like the icons of the bottom row, so I do not believe it implies votes or democracy--why fix what isn't broken? I think the page represents something like a constitution or legal limits, but that's a complete guess.

This is the most interesting suggestion I've seen so far for this one. I personally go with the Constitutional interpretation of the meaning of the double pages. However, keeping in theme somewhat with the "Middle row = oligarchy" theme so far, I think this might mean the government is headed by some sort of "Constitutional Council", that is tasked with governing under the guiding hand of a Constitution, being highly legalistic and based on non-violence(thus, the peace sign and relation with Moral Democracy just below).

 

[Harle]

I do appreciate the dev diaries and the time the devs do take to answer questions, but it does make me a little sad that the dev diaries don't quite get as much attention after posting as they did for the first couple of DDs. It was a nice way to get information about something the devs were ready to talk about.

I know they're busy though, so it's all good.

 

[Denkt]

3: ["Ecotopia"/Ecological State]

I think the third column are governments that can only be picked by materalistic societies. I think the earth are ment to show the monarchs control over anything material and the hands show that it can be touched, that it is material.

4: [Enlightened Despotism]

If you know swedish this is an easy one: Lit in swedish is upplyst. If you then add on despotism you get the word upplyst despotism which in english are enlightened despotism.

4: [???????/Peaceful 2-paged plural constitution thing government aka multicultural nonsense]

Maybe meritocracy, my thinking here is that the oligarchy (rule of few) would be select based on their abilities to rule a society as good as possible which would be a sort of meritocracy, rule by merit. I have not found a better name for it then meritocracy.

 

[Fe1000]

How do you know they do? All we've seen are some bonuses, and that's very much like paradox, we havent seen anything in the terms of unique mechanics yet as far as I've seen. Aside from being told that 'monarchies' won't have elections.

The DD actually mentions unique features, like how rulers of authocracies can build a monument/SH battleship once in their lifetime. It also mentions that military dictatourship are able to choice their heir, which by my experience with CK2, I think that can be a pretty good perk that is unique to them.

 

[Finnway]

Like I said earlier, I hope governments are a little more interesting than just a few different bonuses.

Agreed. At this point I think we'd expect that from any new Paradox title.

 

[TheDungen]

The DD actually mentions unique features, like how rulers of authocracies can build a monument/SH battleship once in their lifetime. It also mentions that military dictatourship are able to choice their heir, which by my experience with CK2, I think that can be a pretty good perk that is unique to them.

But that's features for the cathegories of government not for the specific governments. That stuff is liek hoe eu4 was when it came out, Absolute monarchy and constitutional monarchy are the same except one gives soem more morale and the other gives lowered unrest.
But sicne this is made after EU4 has expanded beyodn that to things like parliaments and dutch repiblic and polish elective monarchy, I say they should build on that (unique mechanics for most if not all governements) instead of starting over from how EU4 were at release.

 

[Xavori]

Honestly, the heated discussion on ideologies on here just seems to me like it'd be best if we fought it out on Stellaris Multiplayer.
Hosting a political debate multiplayer game when this comes out.
Would it be better if Stalin was a pacifist fungus? Coming soon.

I totally agree. In fact, we should do it right now.

Hear that, platypi? Send us some game codes for Steam so we can solve this whole communism v socialism v Marxism in a bloody winner-take-all Stellaris smackdown!

 

[takedown47]

To the one person who disliked this DD.....you know nothing Jon Snow.