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Stellaris Dev Diary #54 - Ethics Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Now that 1.4 is out, we can finally start properly talking about the 1.5 'Banks' update, which will be a major update with an accompanying (unannounced) expansion. As of right now we cannot provide any details on when 1.5 will come out, or anything about the unannounced expansion, so please don't ask. :)

Today's topic is a number of changes coming to ethics in the 1.5 update. Everything in this diary is part of the free update. Please note that values shown in screenshots are always non-final.

Authoritarian vs Egalitarian
One of the things in Stellaris I was never personally happy with was the Collectivism vs Individualism ethic. While interesting conceptually, the mechanics that the game presented for the ethics simply did not match either their meanings or flavor text, meaning you ended up with a Collectivist ethos that was somehow simultaneously egalitarian and 100% in on slavery, while Individualism was a confused jumble between liberal democratic values and randian free-market capitalism. For this reason we've decided to rebrand these ethics into something that should both be much more clear in its meaning, and match the mechanics as they are.

Authoritarian replaces Collectivist and represents belief in hierarchial rule and orderly, stratified societies. Authoritarian pops tolerate slavery and prefer to live in autocracies.
Egalitarian replaces Individualist and represents belief in individual rights and a level playing field. Egalitarian pops dislike slavery and elitism and prefer to live in democracies.

While I understand this may cause some controversy and will no doubt spark debate over people's interpretation of words like Authoritarian and Individualist, I believe that we need to work with the mechanics we have, and as it stand we simply do not have good mechanics for a Collectivism vs Individualism axis while the mechanics we have fit the rebranded ethics if not perfectly then at least a whole lot better.
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Pop Ethics Rework
Another mechanic that never quite felt satisfying is the ethics divergence mechanic. Not only is it overly simplified with just a single value determining if pops go towards or from empire ethics, the shift rarely makes sense: Why would xenophobe alien pops diverge away from xenophobe just because they're far away from the capital of a xenophobic empire? Furthermore, the fact that pops could have anything from one to three different ethics made it extremely difficult to actually quantify what any individual pop's ethics actually mean for how they relate to the empire. For this reason we've decided to revamp the way pop ethics work in the following way:
  • Each pop in your empire will now only embrace a single, non-fanatic ethic. At the start of the game, your population will be made of up of only the ethics that you picked in species setup, but as your empire grows, its population will become more diverse in their views and wants.
  • Each ethic now has an attraction value for each pop in your empire depending on both the empire's situation and their own situation. For example, enslaved pops tend to become more egalitarian, while pops living around non-enslaved aliens become more xenophilic (and pops living around enslaved aliens more xenophobic). Conversely, fighting a lot of wars will increase the attraction for militarism across your entire empire, while an alien empire purging pops of a particular species will massively increase the attraction for xenophobic for the species being purged.
  • Over time, the ethics of your pops will drift in such a way that it roughly matches the overall attraction of that value. For example, if your materialist attraction sits at 10% for decades, it's likely that after that time, around 10% of your pops will be materialist. There is some random factor so it's likely never going to match up perfectly, but the system is built to try and go towards the mean, so the more overrepresented an ethic is compared to its attraction, the more likely pops are to drift away from it and vice versa.
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So what does the single ethic per pop mean in terms of how it affects pop happiness? Well, this brings us to the new faction system, which we will cover briefly in this dev diary, and get back to more in depth later.

Faction Rework
One thing we feel is currently missing from Stellaris is agency for your pops. Sure, they have their ethics and will get upset if you have policies that don't suit them, but that's about the only way they have of expressing their desires, and there is no tie-in between pop ethics and the politics systems in the game. To address this and also to create a system that will better fit the new pop ethics, we've decided to revamp the faction system in the following manner:
  • Factions are no longer purely rebel groupings, but instead represent political parties, popular movements and other such interest groups, and mostly only consist of pops of certain ethics. For example, the Supremacist faction desires complete political dominance for their own species, and is made up exclusively of Xenophobic pops, while the Isolationist faction wants diplomatic isolation and a strong defense, and can be joined by both Pacifist and Xenophobe pops. You do not start the game with any factions, but rather they will form over the course of the game as their interests become relevant
  • Factions have issues related to their values and goals, and how well the empire responds to those issues will determine the overall happiness level of the faction. For example, the Supremacists want the ruler to be of their species and are displeased by the presence of free alien populations in the empire. They will also get a temporary happiness boost whenever you defeat alien empires in war.
  • The happiness level of a faction determines the base happiness of all pops belonging to it. This means that where any pop not belonging to a faction has a base happiness of 50%, a pop belonging to a faction that have their happiness reduced to 35% because of their issues will have a base happiness of only 35% before any other modifiers are applied, meaning that displeasing a large and influential faction can result in vastly reduced productivity across your empire. As part of this, happiness effects from policies, xenophobia, slavery, etc have been merged into the faction system, so engaging in alien slavery will displease certain factions instead of having each pop individually react to it.
  • Factions have an influence level determined by the number of pops that belong to it. In addition to making its pops happier, a happy faction will provide an influence boost to their empire.
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We will come back to factions in greater detail in a later dev diary, going over topics such as how separatists and rebellious slaves will work, and how factions can be used to change your empire ethics, but for now we are done for today. Next week we'll be talking about another new feature that we have dubbed 'Traditions and Unity'. See you then!
 
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I still can't decide on my opinion on this dev diary.

One thing that bothers me is that it again will just mean change in modifiers, not concept.

Are you going to implement riots? Like if majority of planet population is xenophobic and several aliens migrate to this planet - will this situation have a chance to trigger riots? Will there be clashes between Spiritualists and Materialists? I'm not talking about revolt vs 'federal government', I'm talking about internal struggle between pops with different ethos?

This could be an incentive to flesh out ground combat :D Make riots and fights between pops on planets possible. Let them fight against each other with their pathethic riot armies ^^ Maybe even support one secretly to get rid of the other...
 
Concerned about the ethics drift.

Why would pops start without a fanatic version of traits if your empire starts as fanatics?

If you have fanatic empire ethics you get a higher attraction towards that ethic, so overall more of your population will follow it.
 
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From the flavour text, it looks like they mean “Social egalitarianism”, eg. socialism.
Which, ironically, is more favored by those who support state controls, IE: authoritarianism.
 
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If you have fanatic empire ethics you get a higher attraction towards that ethic, so overall more of your population will follow it.
So no pops will ever themselves have fanatic ethics? It's just a "hard drift" direction based on empire?

That seems odd, because it means there is no starting difference between a race of "normal" xenophobes and fanatic xenophobes from initial pop setup.
 
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So no pops will ever themselves have fanatic ethics? It's just a "hard drift" direction based on empire?

That seems odd, because it means there is no starting difference between a race of "normal" xenophobes and fanatic xenophobes from initial pop setup.

Fanatic Xenophobe will have a bigger xenophobic population, both at start and later on. It also matters for faction attraction, so the fanatic xenophobe empire will be more supremacist and slavery/purge happy than a non-fanatic one.
 
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- Currently unemployment makes pops turn authoritarian. Why not make it: "Under democracy unemployed pops turn authoritarian, under autocracy unemployed pops turn egalitarian"
A lot of people have complained about this, but all that information really is is an isolated factoid presented as an example. We know there are lots of factors at play in the works- I doubt it'll be that simple.

- There needs to be "like whatever, man" faction, that includes 50% of your population (average number of people who don't ever vote), who don't care about policies. Yes, the filthy neutrals. Purging them gives you opinion bonuses with everyone else. But not enslaving. Too good for them.
While you're clearly joking around, I feel the need to say that this sounds like a really boring mechanic and is far better served by just remembering that a POP unit isn't a single person, it's potentially millions or billions of people, and factions are tracking the larger relevance of those POPs.

So no pops will ever themselves have fanatic ethics? It's just a "hard drift" direction based on empire?

That seems odd, because it means there is no starting difference between a race of "normal" xenophobes and fanatic xenophobes from initial pop setup.
There's a difference in government. Xenophobic pops all want xenophobic things, though, and seems reasonable.
 
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I'm hoping you make factions and/or rebels dangerous enough to cause problems is you are careless (well, at least on hard..). I hope that you are also considering an update to how having and creating vassals works, because I think that could be in interesting alternative way to handle your spoils from that war with the repugnant space nazis: just confine them to a puppet state and have them mind their own buisness! I'm thinking a mix-up between client states and colonies from EU4 where you could create them from any already owned planets and have some options as to how you want to extract resources and military assets from them, all subject to a delicate balance of liberty desire ofc!
 
From the flavour text, it looks like they mean “Social egalitarianism”, eg. socialism.
No it does not, that sounds very much like a fanatical democratic crusader. Sounds like a speech Job Trunhilt would make before invading the galactic empire (Legend of the galactic heroes reference).
Sounds a bit like the US founding fathers too.
 
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This single ethic have a problem: why every pop have a single non-fanatic ethic?? A spiritualist and a fanatic spiritualis are VERY different, the same thing for a Xenophobe (get this alliens out of my planet) and a Fanatic Xenophone (purge the alliens!). I really want you to reconsider changing this, it can be simple that the Fanatic version receive double the things as a normal Pop.

Also: Authoritarian don't make sense, the first Mod I will install is to change the name to Hierarchical. (please mod makers)
 
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I like the changes so far, especially related to factions. Although, I can't say I'm one-hundred-percent on board with the single ethic per pop just yet. I know it's a fine balance, but I hope there will be more ways in the future to fine-tune the type of government and society we want, both in the game setup and during the game itself. Since Stellaris is such a blank state, I think it would be great if you could implement some of the features from the other Paradox games, such as Europa Universalis IV. There's no shame in borrowing some of the better mechanics from them.

Sad to see the classical liberal option go away, and our choices basically being reduced to two different kinds of totalitarianism. Monarchy vs. socialism. But I guess that's why we have mods, so we don't have to be restricted by the developers political views.
Egalitarianism just means everyone has the same rights under the law. There's no political message here, you're just looking into it too much. More so, 'authoritarian' doesn't equal monarchism. You can view authoritarian as an absolute monarchy, fascist state, or statist communism. Likewise, egalitarianism could be socialist, communist, or simply liberal where everyone shares the same rights. Also, why choose either? There's always the middle road of not picking either-or.

From the flavour text, it looks like they mean “Social egalitarianism”, eg. socialism.
No it doesn't. It says beware of people who seek absolute power and that society should defend the rights of all its people from those who wish to quash those rights. It's very broad. It could be communistic; it could be libertarian. The text was probably written to be so broad so that the players themselves could decide what kind of society and government they want to play as. Stellaris, like many Paradox games, does have a huge role-playing factor for those who like that sort of thing.
 
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This single ethic have a problem: why every pop have a single non-fanatic ethic?? A spiritualist and a fanatic spiritualis are VERY different, the same thing for a Xenophobe (get this alliens out of my planet) and a Fanatic Xenophone (purge the alliens!). I really want you to reconsider changing this, it can be simple that the Fanatic version receive double the things as a normal Pop.

Also: Authoritarian don't make sense, the first Mod I will install is to change the name to Hierarchical. (please mod makers)
>> Developers clearly spell out their intentions and reasons behind a change
>> "No this is bad do it my way instead!"
 
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Sad to see the classical liberal option go away, and our choices basically being reduced to two different kinds of totalitarianism. Monarchy vs. socialism. But I guess that's why we have mods, so we don't have to be restricted by the developers' political views.
It seems "liberal option" is either non-fanatic egalitarian, or default none-of-above (neither authoritarian nor egalitarian).
Moderate Egalitarian is equality of opportunity - classical liberal
Fanatic Egalitarian is equality of outcome - european socialist / american liberal
Both are in some way equality.
 
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Again, I have several key concerns here:

1. How this system will work with as usual not quite smart sector AI?
2. If government ethos (or starting ethos) affects pop ethos (not pop ethos affect government ethos) how your empire ethos are going to change at all? If always you will be around some kind of median that is based on your current ethos. I still don't get it.
 
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A society like that would presumably have traits that make the attraction to government ethics very strong, cancelling out the increased attraction to egalitarian. It's not like every slave is instantly going to become egalitarian, it's just a factor.

I shall look forward to indoctrinate the galaxy into acting like individuals.
 
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currently the ethic system is too human centric. Bringing in some very strange alien ethics and factions would be a good choice by the devs.
 
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Fanatic Xenophobe will have a bigger xenophobic population, both at start and later on. It also matters for faction attraction, so the fanatic xenophobe empire will be more supremacist and slavery/purge happy than a non-fanatic one.
What about "distance from capital" modifier for current ED? Will it stay in some form in new system, or you'll introduce different mechanics for anti-blobing? Because, even if distance from Cental Governmental Institutions do matter, it's not near as severe and linear as DoC modifier portrait it.
 
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i hope by this time it will be possible to stick with version 1.4 if 1.5 comes out.. for stellaris i really start to hate the auto update "so called feature" from Steam

while interesting changes, but it looks very difficult to polish this update/change before release

and i dont want to be part of the "bug-hunting faction" no more, big sorry PDX

well, this is all based on the last experience i made with PDX and maybe you surprising me very much, who knows and still i love your game and like your work, dont mess it up please :) so now go and make space even greater again!!!
 
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