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Stellaris Dev Diary #54 - Ethics Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Now that 1.4 is out, we can finally start properly talking about the 1.5 'Banks' update, which will be a major update with an accompanying (unannounced) expansion. As of right now we cannot provide any details on when 1.5 will come out, or anything about the unannounced expansion, so please don't ask. :)

Today's topic is a number of changes coming to ethics in the 1.5 update. Everything in this diary is part of the free update. Please note that values shown in screenshots are always non-final.

Authoritarian vs Egalitarian
One of the things in Stellaris I was never personally happy with was the Collectivism vs Individualism ethic. While interesting conceptually, the mechanics that the game presented for the ethics simply did not match either their meanings or flavor text, meaning you ended up with a Collectivist ethos that was somehow simultaneously egalitarian and 100% in on slavery, while Individualism was a confused jumble between liberal democratic values and randian free-market capitalism. For this reason we've decided to rebrand these ethics into something that should both be much more clear in its meaning, and match the mechanics as they are.

Authoritarian replaces Collectivist and represents belief in hierarchial rule and orderly, stratified societies. Authoritarian pops tolerate slavery and prefer to live in autocracies.
Egalitarian replaces Individualist and represents belief in individual rights and a level playing field. Egalitarian pops dislike slavery and elitism and prefer to live in democracies.

While I understand this may cause some controversy and will no doubt spark debate over people's interpretation of words like Authoritarian and Individualist, I believe that we need to work with the mechanics we have, and as it stand we simply do not have good mechanics for a Collectivism vs Individualism axis while the mechanics we have fit the rebranded ethics if not perfectly then at least a whole lot better.
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Pop Ethics Rework
Another mechanic that never quite felt satisfying is the ethics divergence mechanic. Not only is it overly simplified with just a single value determining if pops go towards or from empire ethics, the shift rarely makes sense: Why would xenophobe alien pops diverge away from xenophobe just because they're far away from the capital of a xenophobic empire? Furthermore, the fact that pops could have anything from one to three different ethics made it extremely difficult to actually quantify what any individual pop's ethics actually mean for how they relate to the empire. For this reason we've decided to revamp the way pop ethics work in the following way:
  • Each pop in your empire will now only embrace a single, non-fanatic ethic. At the start of the game, your population will be made of up of only the ethics that you picked in species setup, but as your empire grows, its population will become more diverse in their views and wants.
  • Each ethic now has an attraction value for each pop in your empire depending on both the empire's situation and their own situation. For example, enslaved pops tend to become more egalitarian, while pops living around non-enslaved aliens become more xenophilic (and pops living around enslaved aliens more xenophobic). Conversely, fighting a lot of wars will increase the attraction for militarism across your entire empire, while an alien empire purging pops of a particular species will massively increase the attraction for xenophobic for the species being purged.
  • Over time, the ethics of your pops will drift in such a way that it roughly matches the overall attraction of that value. For example, if your materialist attraction sits at 10% for decades, it's likely that after that time, around 10% of your pops will be materialist. There is some random factor so it's likely never going to match up perfectly, but the system is built to try and go towards the mean, so the more overrepresented an ethic is compared to its attraction, the more likely pops are to drift away from it and vice versa.
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So what does the single ethic per pop mean in terms of how it affects pop happiness? Well, this brings us to the new faction system, which we will cover briefly in this dev diary, and get back to more in depth later.

Faction Rework
One thing we feel is currently missing from Stellaris is agency for your pops. Sure, they have their ethics and will get upset if you have policies that don't suit them, but that's about the only way they have of expressing their desires, and there is no tie-in between pop ethics and the politics systems in the game. To address this and also to create a system that will better fit the new pop ethics, we've decided to revamp the faction system in the following manner:
  • Factions are no longer purely rebel groupings, but instead represent political parties, popular movements and other such interest groups, and mostly only consist of pops of certain ethics. For example, the Supremacist faction desires complete political dominance for their own species, and is made up exclusively of Xenophobic pops, while the Isolationist faction wants diplomatic isolation and a strong defense, and can be joined by both Pacifist and Xenophobe pops. You do not start the game with any factions, but rather they will form over the course of the game as their interests become relevant
  • Factions have issues related to their values and goals, and how well the empire responds to those issues will determine the overall happiness level of the faction. For example, the Supremacists want the ruler to be of their species and are displeased by the presence of free alien populations in the empire. They will also get a temporary happiness boost whenever you defeat alien empires in war.
  • The happiness level of a faction determines the base happiness of all pops belonging to it. This means that where any pop not belonging to a faction has a base happiness of 50%, a pop belonging to a faction that have their happiness reduced to 35% because of their issues will have a base happiness of only 35% before any other modifiers are applied, meaning that displeasing a large and influential faction can result in vastly reduced productivity across your empire. As part of this, happiness effects from policies, xenophobia, slavery, etc have been merged into the faction system, so engaging in alien slavery will displease certain factions instead of having each pop individually react to it.
  • Factions have an influence level determined by the number of pops that belong to it. In addition to making its pops happier, a happy faction will provide an influence boost to their empire.
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We will come back to factions in greater detail in a later dev diary, going over topics such as how separatists and rebellious slaves will work, and how factions can be used to change your empire ethics, but for now we are done for today. Next week we'll be talking about another new feature that we have dubbed 'Traditions and Unity'. See you then!
 
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The real problem with that change from Collectivist/Individualist to Authoritarian/Egalitarian is the timing.

The culprit like some have identified in the thread is "Egalitarian".

The term has a very special meaning in that new phenomenon that people like to call "the Alt-Right", it denotes the propensity people have of ignoring existing differences (like genitals) to present everything as the same.
In the aftermath of Trump's election, to which Wiz has *personally* reacted to in a very unfavorable manner, having not only Collectivist changed into Authoritarian and Egalitarian shoved there, especially with that very moralizing description it has... Collectivist gets absolved, Authoritarian gets added with the obvious stigma it has, and that to put Egalitarian in the shiniest light possible. Seems like a message toward them.

I very much doubt this change is motivated by mechanics. Collectivists putting the group above the individual fits them putting part of their populations in forced labor. Ants are not evil for having worker ants, it's just what they are. Individualist matches the economical and Energy aspect. They made perfect sense.
Someone PLEASE explain to me why an Egalitarian species would have a bigger propensity to create the Ultra-Entertainment-Forum?? THAT makes Zero sense.
 
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The real problem with that change from Collectivist/Individualist to Authoritarian/Egalitarian is the timing.

The culprit like some have identified in the thread is "Egalitarian".

The term has a very special meaning in that new phenomenon that people like to call "the Alt-Right", it denotes the propensity people have of ignoring existing differences (like genitals) to present everything as the same.
In the aftermath of Trump's election, to which Wiz has *personally* reacted to in a very unfavorable manner, having not only Collectivist changed into Authoritarian and Egalitarian shoved there, especially with that very moralizing description it has... Collectivist gets absolved, Authoritarian gets added with the obvious stigma it has, and that to put Egalitarian in the shiniest light possible. Seems like a message toward them.

I very much doubt this change is motivated by mechanics. Collectivists putting the group above the individual fits them putting part of their populations in forced labor. Ants are not evil for having worker ants, it's just what they are. Individualist matches the economical and Energy aspect. They made perfect sense.
Someone PLEASE explain to me why an Egalitarian species would have a bigger propensity to create the Ultra-Entertainment-Forum?? THAT makes Zero sense.

This change was planned long before Trump's election and something me (and not just me) wanted to do for far longer than that. Drop the ad-homs. I also don't know what the hell genitalia has to do with the naming of ethics in Stellaris, and I really don't want to know either.

Do not assume buildings and mechanics will 100% stay the same. They won't.
 
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I very much doubt this change is motivated by mechanics. Collectivists putting the group above the individual fits them putting part of their populations in forced labor. Ants are not evil for having worker ants, it's just what they are. Individualist matches the economical and Energy aspect. They made perfect sense.
Someone PLEASE explain to me why an Egalitarian species would have a bigger propensity to create the Ultra-Entertainment-Forum?? THAT makes Zero sense.

More people with power = more money overall rather than a monopoly with 10-20 dudes with the dosh.
more money = more trading
more trading = more establishments
 
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Someone PLEASE explain to me why an Egalitarian species would have a bigger propensity to create the Ultra-Entertainment-Forum?? THAT makes Zero sense.
Why do you assume they will? All this stuff is getting reworked, that may very well be completely different so as to fit the new flavour.

(I do agree though that "Egalitarian" as a term is kind of skeevy to me nowadays due to its frequent use as a smokescreen to avoid discussing social issues)
 
I very much doubt this change is motivated by mechanics. Collectivists putting the group above the individual fits them putting part of their populations in forced labor. Ants are not evil for having worker ants, it's just what they are. Individualist matches the economical and Energy aspect. They made perfect sense.
Someone PLEASE explain to me why an Egalitarian species would have a bigger propensity to create the Ultra-Entertainment-Forum?? THAT makes Zero sense.

Egalitarian societies generally have a more prosperous population with more time and allowance for recreation and personal entertainment.

Trump was elected by a democratic system that isn't authoritarian by Stellaris terms.

Edit: To expand upon this, an authoritarian system by Stellaris terms would never have an election by the population. It'd either be an inherited position or a hierarchy ascended gradually by merit.
 
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Isn't there a really popular mod that adds a bunch of new ethics and governments? Unless Wiz plans to shut down the hooks for modding that, this is just a lot of pissing in the wind. IMHO.
 
Isn't there a really popular mod that adds a bunch of new ethics and governments? Unless Wiz plans to shut down the hooks for modding that, this is just a lot of pissing in the wind. IMHO.

Nah, if anything the new ethics system is far, far more moddable than the old one. Especially the way attraction and factions work.
 
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Isn't there a really popular mod that adds a bunch of new ethics and governments? Unless Wiz plans to shut down the hooks for modding that, this is just a lot of pissing in the wind. IMHO.

This changes the mechanics behind the ethics, not just the ethics themselves.
 
This changes the mechancis behind the ethics, not just the ethics themselves.

And? That doesn't mean yes, the hooks are being boxed off. It just means the hooks need changing/expanding.

EDIT - Ninjad by Wiz. Awesome.
 
Each pop in your empire will now only embrace a single, non-fanatic ethic. At the start of the game, your population will be made of up of only the ethics that you picked in species setup, but as your empire grows, its population will become more diverse in their views and wants.
so its still not possible to create something like the borg or kikliss (an insect empire, with one queen and 2391043 billion drones, without moral all just working for one purpose).
please make this happen (no moral races and a "unification" government ype out of MoO2).
 
Will the AI personalities be tweaked (as in the specific combination of traits that result in an AI personality) because of this or should it still be the same as it is now?
 
so its still not possible to create something like the borg or kikliss (an insect empire, with one queen and 2391043 billion drones, without moral all just working for one purpose).
please make this happen (no moral races and a "unification" government ype out of MoO2).

I really think Hive Minds and the like need special mechanics that are outside the regular ethics system, so if/when we add them that's almost certainly the route we'll go. Same if we were to say, add playable robots or gas giant dwellers.
 
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Will the AI personalities be tweaked (as in the specific combination of traits that result in an AI personality) because of this or should it still be the same as it is now?

Will be tweaked as needed.
 
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Will the factions as political movements open up the door for a parliament or congress similar to Vicky 2? That might limit slider or policy options when certain factions are in power or potentially function like the small council in CK2 and have varying degrees of approval authority over player actions like war declaration or purging?
 
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so its still not possible to create something like the borg or kikliss (an insect empire, with one queen and 2391043 billion drones, without moral all just working for one purpose).
please make this happen (no moral races and a "unification" government ype out of MoO2).
It already isn't possible unless you're willing to use your imagination or a mod, so it's not like anything has actually changed or been lost on that front.
 
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Will the factions as political movements open up the door for a parliament or congress similar to Vicky 2? That might limit slider or policy options when certain factions are in power or potentially function like the small council in CK2 and have varying degrees of approval authority over player actions like war declaration or purging?

Should absolutely be possible to mod if nothing else.
 
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I really think Hive Minds and the like need special mechanics that are outside the regular ethics system, so if/when we add them that's almost certainly the route we'll go. Same if we were to say, add playable robots or gas giant dwellers.

Ah, this precise issue (hive minds, spaceborn faction, AI faction) was discussed a few pages back with the argument that it'd have to be a future expansion.

Also, the gas giant revolution is upon the galaxy and the workers will be liberated from their eternal toil by force (when a normal empire agrees to transport them back and forth): Confirmed.
 
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One of the things in Stellaris I was never personally happy with was the Collectivism vs Individualism ethic. While interesting conceptually, the mechanics that the game presented for the ethics simply did not match either their meanings or flavor text, meaning you ended up with a Collectivist ethos that was somehow simultaneously egalitarian and 100% in on slavery, while Individualism was a confused jumble between liberal democratic values and randian free-market capitalism.
I thought that was about materialist, which is BOTH capitalism AND science, according to bonus, government, ai personality and dialogues. Apparently, a materialist is a greedy scientist, however, a capitalist spiritualist doesn't exists in Paradox world.
I didn't mind collectivism and individualist though. It made sense, even with the name. I don't like the change, I wish it was new options instead.




As for the ethic divergence, I REALLY hope we'll have a way to change our governement ethos. For example, a faction win a civil war and force the change, or we do it willingly because the majority of our pop have changed. Ironically, that's what happened to the Cybrex ingame (they would have started as xenophobic/militaristic, and after a while they realized it was bad, and went into pacifism), and yet we are unable to do so as a player.
 
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